IRC log for #utah on 20160428

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04:29.06TodPunkhttps://www.humblebundle.com/books/no-starch-hacking-books
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10:15.36EnembyYep
10:15.48EnembyGot it mainly for the art of exploitation
10:16.03EnembyWanted that one for a while
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15:56.37frostyfrogDefinitely looks interesting.
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16:11.16jlp_zncthe past few days, there has been a goose sitting on top of the building next door.
16:11.36jlp_znche comes in in the morning, sits there for several hours, then leaves..
16:11.41jlp_znchttps://goo.gl/photos/jTJadMHrZM2vwCWX6
16:12.10jlp_znche seems to be ... watching.  waiting for something.  or someone.
16:13.16RyanEthe goose is a new NSA surveillance drone.
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16:15.09RyanEgood lookin' goose, though.
16:41.54SunSparcToo bad it is not a blue canary in the outlet by the light switch.
16:43.15RyanEwho watches over you
16:43.42SunSparcNot to put too fine a point on it.
16:44.16RyanEsomething something bee in your bonnet
16:46.49SunSparcHaha
16:47.11SunSparcSome deeper thoughts about the Blue Canary: https://www.quora.com/They-Might-Be-Giants-band-What-is-the-meaning-of-the-TMBG-song-Birdhouse-in-your-soul
16:49.53voldemortensenIf anyone is interested in a solar watering heating system let me know. I've got one for sale.
16:50.17SunSparcvoldemortensen: Did you use it?
16:52.16RyanEis it for a pool type setup?
16:52.28voldemortensenNo, the previous owners of my house unplugged it because it was "making noise". Its a drainback system and "noise" is normal.
16:53.37voldemortensenRyanE: as in swimming pool? no. Its meant to supplement a gas water heater for a house.
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16:55.32frostyfrogSounds cool :)
16:56.58youtahTodPunk, do you have solar panels?
16:57.12TodPunkNo, I wouldn't mind getting some though
16:57.40TodPunkWhat I do have is a projector screen and a big open area to socialize
16:58.18youtahAwesome
16:58.28spangbornyoutah: What provider sold you solar panels?
16:58.30youtahwishes he had a projector screen
16:58.33spangbornAuric keeps beating on my door.
16:58.39voldemortensenI was doing research on these systems and theoretically they can cover 100% of your hot water use in the summer, 60% spring/fall, 40% winter.
16:58.41youtahI went with Blue Raven
16:58.46SunSparcI have solar panels, but solar water heater would be cool too.
16:58.48TodPunkAuric is pretty awesome.  I hear good things about Legend, too
16:58.48spangbornVivint too, but screw them.
16:58.52youtahBlue Raven uses Solar Dividend as their financer
16:58.52TodPunkDon't do Vivint
16:59.01spangbornThey wouldn't even give me a pamphlet
16:59.03*** join/#utah weedpatch2 (~weedpatch@unaffiliated/weedpatch2)
16:59.05youtahVivint solar = no bueno
16:59.11spangbornThey wanted me to sign a contract on the spot without reading anything about it.
16:59.13SunSparcused Legend Solar.
16:59.27TodPunkVivint = "I'd like to save money, and give it to someone else"
16:59.27spangbornVivint is so skeezy.
16:59.35youtahmany of these solar companies use the same financing and installers
16:59.40SunSparcVivint is solar rental.
16:59.48youtahthe installer for Blue Raven was Intermountain Wind and Solar
16:59.52SunSparcIf you want to own you have to go with someone else.
16:59.57youtahYup
17:00.01youtahI own
17:00.14SunSparcOwning is awesome. :)
17:00.19youtahI have generated nearly $400 so far in the last 3 months
17:00.25SunSparcAlmost as cool as pwning.
17:00.36SunSparcNice!
17:00.46youtahWhoever you go through
17:00.54youtahinsist on the SunnyBoy Inverter
17:01.03youtahthey're top notch and no RFI
17:01.23manithreeMy neighbor got Auric, and I've signed papers.  Their installations look way better than most.
17:01.39youtahAwesome
17:01.41SunSparcYep, Legend gave me a SunnyBoy. Pretty cool.
17:01.47spangbornAuric seems like a pretty legit company, given they did Rio Tinto Stadium's solar, too
17:01.58TodPunkThis discussion was prompted because I posted inviting anyone that wanted to learn about Auric's solar offering in a neutral territory could come to my house and hear this gal's presentation without feeling pressured (because I'm not going to stand for that)
17:02.03youtahI think Auric is one of the more popular in the state
17:02.08spangbornLooking at moving, so probably not going to bother with solar, but yeah
17:02.11TodPunkshe did it before and it was pretty chill and nice for everyone to just hang out
17:02.17SunSparcAlso, whoever you go with, get quotes from several companies before you decide.
17:02.24TodPunkmhmm
17:02.40youtahSolar on average increases the average homes net worth by about $30k (but the study is a few years old now)
17:03.04manithreeDoes the SunnyBoy drop the efficiency of the whole system if one panel drops (or is obscured)?
17:03.08SunSparcYeah, I considered it an investment in my home.
17:03.11TodPunkwell yeah, because it costs about that on average
17:03.38youtahit does manithree but they said the amount is so minimal you won't notice it
17:03.42manithreeAuric pushes micro-inverters inverters because they claim there aren't any string inverters that don't suffer from that drawback.
17:03.51youtahbecause it is a parallel DC system all the way to the single inverter
17:04.48manithreeWhat do you like about the SunnyBoy?
17:04.59youtahthe one thing I dont like about the micro-inverters, is that some of the people that I know that have them, (ham radio operators) get a ton of RFI on some of the HF frequencies from them.
17:05.32youtahit's extremely efficient, the reporting, the interface and it's very clean with RFI
17:05.37youtahbut RFI is really important to me
17:05.52youtahif it wipes out the 40 meter band, there goes one of my favorite HF radio bands
17:06.08youtahI know, really geeky
17:06.12TodPunkYeah, the micro-inverters are much more efficient with any sort of interference.  I can't imagine the RFI can't be dealt with somehow
17:06.13SunSparc:)
17:06.13manithreeDoes it have an outlet for when RMP is down?
17:06.24youtahYes
17:06.31TodPunk*but with
17:06.40youtahso I can plug in refridgerators or charge batteries, etc if the grid goes down
17:06.50manithreeAnd the sun is shining.
17:06.55youtahright
17:06.58youtahand it's peak hours
17:07.23TodPunkin April
17:07.24youtahI can't wait for the Tesla Battery pack to have it's kinks (if there are some) worked out
17:07.37TodPunkIt doesn't have many kinks, it's just expensive
17:07.41manithreeI finally just decided Solar without batteries sucks for prepping and got talked into micro-inverters
17:07.56youtahI also have a bunch of Goal Zero stuff too
17:08.04youtahand I love my Yeti-400
17:08.28manithreeI have one yeti, but no panels for it yet
17:08.58youtahit also has anderson power pole connectors on the side that bypasses a lot of the other circuitry and connects to the system, so you can go directly to the battery
17:09.15youtahso I can run an HF radio station on it for about 3~4 days without a charge
17:09.29youtahI have in inline volt meter and inline 25amp fuses I have built'
17:09.42SunSparcIt would be cool to be able to gridless.
17:10.13youtahGoal Zero is coming to the Great Salt Lake Ham Fest this summer
17:10.24youtahit's the very first Ham Fest to be held in the Salt Lake valley... ever.
17:10.27jlp_zncSunSparc: gridless makes no financial sense
17:10.41youtahactually, it kind of does
17:10.50jlp_zncbatteries are expensive, and it's the kind of expense that continues to cost and cost and cost
17:11.00manithreesolar only makes financial sense because poor people subsidize me.
17:11.05jlp_zncwhen your batteries are full, any additioanl sun you get is wasted.
17:11.22jlp_zncs/additioanl/additional/
17:11.44jlp_zncyou have to completely replace your batteries every five years, even if you never had a power outage.
17:11.50youtahYou can push it tot he grid for credits at that point jlp_znc
17:12.14SunSparcjlp_znc: Yeah, currently there is a lot of overhead. But eventually I would like to be self-sufficient.
17:12.15youtahSo the biggest problem is that we have all of these panels generating a shiznits ton of energy during the non-peak hours (not much of a draw). Then in the evening, when the power company hits it's peak, he has to generate power anyway. So you're pulling off them grid then.
17:12.17jlp_zncthe only place a non-gridtie system makes sense is if you don't have the grid available (like, you're in the mountains somewhere and it would cost you $100k to have power brought in)
17:12.24RyanEmy brother-in-law is planning on taking any extra on hot days to pre-heat water in an electric water heater, so his direct heater doesn't have to work as hard.
17:13.00jlp_znchttp://aprs.org/alternative-energy.html
17:13.03youtahand we're essentially using the grid like a psuedo battery
17:13.10SunSparcYep
17:13.14manithreejlp_znc: And noisy generators at the cabin (got one) kinda suck.  I wish I could afford solar for there.
17:13.37jlp_zncmanithree: buy a prius and plug your cabin into it when you're there.
17:13.51manithree'cuz that's so inexpensive.
17:14.05jlp_zncbut you need a car to get to the cabin anyway, right?
17:14.12jlp_znc(I do not own a prius)
17:14.12youtahI want to know if moon light electric buys back power
17:14.28youtahmoonlake*
17:14.32SunSparcIt could be a good idea for RMP to be the one installing solar on houses.
17:14.38manithreehybrids are the worst of both worlds.  ICE maintenance, plus complication and batteries.
17:14.59SunSparcwants a Tesla 3
17:15.04youtahSunSparc can you imagine how much money they would save SunSparc?!?!
17:15.13manithreewould take a Tesla 3 or a Nissan Leaf
17:15.14SunSparcRight!
17:15.42manithreeI wonder if they could get around the net-metering regulations if they (RMP) installed solar panels
17:15.45SunSparcyoutah: And they might mitigate the problem of people going off grid and leaving the poor people unable to pay for power.
17:16.01youtahI want an electrical outlet that I can program and "turn on" at say noon-4pm and charge my batteries during that time, (peak times of my solar production)
17:16.27SunSparcSo many possibilities. I love living in the future.
17:16.58manithreeyoutah: I've got an old APC ethernet power strip you can have if you want it.
17:16.59keldwudI can't believe it's 2016
17:17.13youtahOoooo!
17:17.27youtahI might take you up on that manithree
17:17.32jfindlaythe mamagement of current flow between a power source (solar panels) charge store (batteries) and load is actually quite complicated and is done by a thing called a charge controller
17:17.43jfindlayyou don't just hook them all together into a circuit
17:17.49manithreeI tried to sell them on ksl.com.  Couldn't get $50 for them.
17:18.11manithreeThey were $500 new (cost to my employer, not me)
17:18.51TodPunkI have a $1400 1U rack-mount 8-port KVM that I haven't sold either.  I think I'm just not trying very hard, though
17:19.16TodPunkLast time I was just trying to get $600 out of it
17:20.06SunSparcjfindlay: Yep, getting all that to work together is not easy.
17:20.29SunSparcSwitching power and making sure it does not brownout.
17:23.23frostyfrog8 port KVM? O_o
17:23.38frostyfrogmay be interested, but lacks the money. :/
17:27.23youtahjfindlay, this would be specifically for AC tied into my home's electrical system, not DC and not tied directly to the panels
17:27.42youtahI just want to be able to charge my batteries (goal zero stuff) via my AC during the peak solar production hours.
17:27.44SunSparcis not producing as much power today as he usually does: http://nacnud.com/img/SunPower.png
17:28.51youtahreally shady at my plaec
17:29.31youtahI am at only .8kWh for the day so far
17:29.42youtahhow many panels do you have SunSparc?
17:30.03youtahI have 18 of the Rensola 255
17:30.09jfindlayyoutah: right, your comment reminded me of how charge controllers have models for managing how and when to send current into a battery depending on the state of either system
17:30.24youtahah yes
17:30.50jfindlaybulk charge vs float charge, etc.
17:30.58youtahyup
17:31.07SunSparcyoutah: I have 12 SunPower panels. Cannot remember the model.
17:31.26youtahyou must be in a slighly more sunny spot
17:31.36youtahfor course, my panels are also facing more West than they are South
17:31.39SunSparcPerhaps.
17:31.47youtahso my peak production isn't until later
17:31.54SunSparcMine are due South.
17:32.06youtahhow long have you had yours?
17:32.12youtahI have had mine for 4.5 months
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17:32.30youtahI have heard that you typically will get two production spikes in a year. One in the spring and one in the fall
17:32.43youtahand that the mid summer typically drops a tiny bit
17:32.45SunSparcyoutah: Mine were turned on in September.
17:33.18youtahwait... no... 5.5 months for me
17:33.36youtahinstalled in October but not turned on until Nov
17:33.42SunSparcAh, looks like they are the SunPower E series 327 panels.
17:33.45SunSparchttp://us.sunpower.com/sites/sunpower/files/media-library/data-sheets/ds-e20-series-327-residential-solar-panels.pdf
17:34.14youtahOh, those are the higher end ones. They offered those to us, but it would have been like another $5k more.
17:34.37SunSparcYeah, I decided to go all out.
17:35.55youtahI think Jayce^ has 280's
17:38.16SunSparcI am really happy with them. Though I may add a couple more panels after the first year. Still watching the power numbers.
17:38.34SunSparcHave you seen this solar panel killer tech: https://genesisnanotech.wordpress.com/2016/04/07/solar-cells-will-be-made-obsolete-by-3d-rectennas-aiming-at-40-to-90-efficiency/
17:39.37youtahI havent
17:39.51youtahOh, interesting
17:39.52SunSparcAfter rebates, my cost for the 12 panel system was about $12k through Legend. It would have been even cheaper if I had paid cash, but did not have it saved up.
17:40.45youtahthat't about what mine cost too. Although I have 18 panels, but they are the 250W not the 327's
17:41.25manithreeLucky.  I've got 4 teenagers, and we're getting a 24 pannel system.
17:41.45youtahi kind of wish I had gone with the higher end panels
17:42.32youtahThe downside to solar panels in Lehi, is that our power is 8.76 cents per kWh
17:42.41youtahso the return of investment is a little bit slower
17:42.41manithreeWe're getting Suniva 285W panels
17:43.01SunSparcI guess maybe it turns out to be a wash? Cost more but fewer panels.
17:43.12youtahpossibly
17:43.31youtahMy system is targeted to be a 4.65K system?
17:43.35SunSparcmanithree: Did you get multiple quotes from different providers?
17:43.54manithreeYeah, brio and clear
17:44.08youtahone of the companies we went with stopped doing solar panels... *phew* dodged a bullet there
17:44.15manithreeSunSparc: in addition to Auric
17:44.18voldemortensenyoutah: better than orem. we're 8.89 cents per kwh
17:44.54youtahUtah Average is 9.93 cents
17:44.55manithreeThe reason I went with auric is because I bike 16 miles on the Murdock Canal Trail twice per week ;-)
17:45.05youtahvia: http://www.electricitylocal.com/states/utah/lehi/
17:45.09SunSparcyoutah: Mine was setup to be a 3.9kW system
17:45.28manithreeI see lots of UGLY installations with conduit on the roof, ugly panels, etc. on big McMansions
17:45.34voldemortenseni was thinking backwards on that one
17:45.44youtahUhg, that is nasty manithree
17:45.50youtahmine is really really clean
17:46.09youtahI am at 2.9kWh now
17:46.21SunSparcNice
17:46.43SunSparcMine is a 2.2 now
17:47.05SunSparcDown in Springville.
17:48.12youtahhttp://i.imgur.com/3kflie6.png
17:49.16SunSparcCool! After more than half a year, it is still fun to watch the numbers every day.
17:50.00manithreeSunSparc: Maybe 3d rectenna's will be commercially available by the time my solar panels need replacing.
17:50.15SunSparcmanithree: That is my hope as well.
17:51.02manithreemy solar panels might outlive me
17:54.53youtahNO I won't install Windows 10!
17:59.48frostyfrogsighs.
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19:26.36SunSparcyoutah: Would you, could you, with a fox?
19:27.35youtahNot in a box. Not with a Fox.
19:27.48youtahNot in a house
19:27.54youtahEven with a mouse
19:30.47frostyfroghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfUTdT3MUEo
19:32.06RyanEwell, sometimes in a house.
19:32.25youtahbut definately not a mouse
19:32.53RyanEnot in a mouse, or with a mouse.
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19:57.25SunSparcfrostyfrog: That looks like a fun place to take the family.
19:58.01frostyfrogIt does indeed :) That was just the extras video, here is the main vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92wtDKCtOiU
19:58.32frostyfrogI would love to be able to visit Japan someday and see cool things :3
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20:49.44SunSparcYes, Japan is on my list.
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