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| 01:34.58 | jfindlay | TodPunk: that was about 2-3 years ago |
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| 16:38.20 | frostyfrog | shalkie: Yes, I did. :3 |
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| 17:53.28 | fozzmoo | http://imgur.com/aM5fNoY |
| 17:54.03 | Migs | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX_IsftKS1s |
| 17:58.24 | fozzmoo | Man, that looks like it was filmed in 1978 or something. Maybe it was a really dirty camera lens. |
| 17:58.27 | SunSparc | What the?! |
| 18:12.53 | frostyfrog | nerio: Yeah. 1 year out of 4 may not be enough time to cover all of OT, but there are 4 different "books" that are rotated through... |
| 18:13.28 | nerio | what books? |
| 18:15.07 | frostyfrog | Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, and the Doctrine and Covenents. |
| 18:16.03 | nerio | and those are weekly lessons on sunday schools? |
| 18:17.01 | frostyfrog | One year will have weekly lessons on OT, the next yeaar might be NT, etc. |
| 18:17.17 | frostyfrog | It is highly encouraged to read the scriptures nightly as well. |
| 18:22.21 | frostyfrog | Disclaimer: I haven't taught any classes and have been inactive for a while (I hope to change that) |
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| 18:23.47 | frostyfrog | From my understanding, core concepts out of the scriptures are taught in sunday classes. |
| 18:27.30 | frostyfrog | Hope that helps somewhat, nerio. :) |
| 18:29.35 | programmerq | nerio: another noteworthy thing to mention would be that LDS folks don't limit themselves strictly to what is taught in weekly sunday school classes. personal study is highly encouraged, and the old testament is definitely included |
| 18:31.31 | frostyfrog | That is worded much better than what I said. :) |
| 18:34.32 | romanovic | nerio: I also enjoyed taking Old Testament classes at a local LDS Institute of Religion, and even took it a second time because like you say even a year is not long enough. |
| 18:34.49 | nerio | but do they have any organised rigorous studies other than weekly sunday schools? |
| 18:35.09 | programmerq | nerio: there's the seminary program that's targetted to high school age students. I went through that. |
| 18:35.27 | romanovic | nerio: https://institute.lds.org |
| 18:35.40 | frostyfrog | Institute is targeted (mostly) at college students and young adults. |
| 18:36.16 | frostyfrog | There is also BYU... I hear that you have to write essays on scripture study and are graded on it >_< |
| 18:36.35 | nerio | do you think graduates of this program know all the OT well? |
| 18:37.09 | programmerq | nerio: it varies wildly |
| 18:37.45 | programmerq | I'm curious why you're curious-- are you in contact with an LDS person that is grossly misunderstanding something in the OT? |
| 18:38.08 | nerio | No, I never had any contact with any LDS people |
| 18:38.18 | nerio | I really dont know how knowledgeable they are |
| 18:39.03 | programmerq | ah, so you're just generally curious. got it. |
| 18:39.08 | nerio | yeah exactly |
| 18:39.30 | frostyfrog | programmerq: in response to "it varies wildly", that's just like normal education. Some people really understand what they are taught while others struggle to pass. |
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| 18:39.37 | programmerq | frostyfrog: yup. |
| 18:39.46 | nerio | I think thats a fair assessment for most things |
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| 18:40.21 | nerio | but if you choose to specialize in something and spend enough time and effort - eventually you should have a sufficient grasp of things |
| 18:43.04 | nerio | I got a formal jewish education, it would be pretty hard to find someone that went through that process and doesnt know all the OT pretty much by heart - note to mention the various interpretations . But that's because thats the only thing they study for 8-10 hours a day for years |
| 18:43.43 | joshh | isn't the OT considered obsolete? why bother these days? |
| 18:44.04 | joshh | at least as far as the non-academic religious purposes |
| 18:44.25 | nerio | not at all, at least not for religious purposes |
| 18:45.32 | joshh | the new testament was supposed to just replace it right? that's what some people say when asked why the rules about eating shellfish and stoning your wife and all that don't matter |
| 18:45.57 | nerio | that's what christians believe |
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| 18:46.06 | joshh | oh, jewish, ya |
| 18:47.09 | Migs | http://gawker.com/i-have-no-idea-what-this-startup-does-and-nobody-will-t-1771036238 |
| 18:52.50 | voldemortensen | Even then, I don't think the NT was meant to "replace" the OT. Sure, Christians believe that Christ fulfilled the law of Moses, but the OT isn't just about the law of Moses. |
| 18:53.22 | frostyfrog | ^ |
| 18:54.45 | frostyfrog | All 4 books are meant to expand upon others and to support each other, IIRC. |
| 18:56.30 | voldemortensen | A quote from M. Russell Ballard (an Apostle of the LDS church) "⦠we say that we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior and the author of our salvation and that we believe, revere, and love the Holy Bible. We do have additional sacred scripture, including the Book of Mormon, but it supports the Bible, never substituting for it." |
| 18:58.20 | voldemortensen | another by the same man, "The Book of Mormon does not dilute nor diminish nor de-emphasize the Bible. On the contrary, it expands, extends, and exalts it. The Book of Mormon testifies of the Bible, and both testify of Christ." |
| 18:58.29 | voldemortensen | reference: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2007/04/the-miracle-of-the-holy-bible?lang=eng |
| 18:59.31 | frostyfrog | Yes! I did remember correctly :3 |
| 18:59.50 | Migs | The NT is a collection of books, the canon of which has varied widely for many centuries, especially in the early formation of the Christian church. Different Judaic sects had different OT canons, too. Anyone who thinks the NT was meant to "replace" the OT doesn't understand the nature of canon. |
| 19:00.22 | Migs | if that were true, the OT wouldn't have been oft-quoted in the NT |
| 19:01.09 | nerio | joshh, According to our elders capital punishment have become obsolete 40 years before the destruction of the 2nd temple. And even in the bible. There are very specific examples where its carried out, usually by some creed of a king: for example the capital punishment of the gatherer of woods in the desert who cursed at G-d. also, the worshipers of the Golden Calf, and the worshippers of Belpheor. and then in Josiah's time Achan who disobied the rebelio |
| 19:01.09 | nerio | n and took loot for himself and his family. Then King Saul orders the capital punishment of an entire city because he suspects them of rebelious tendencies (and this is accredited against him in Jewish sources). He executed Necromancers and healers, and his son Jonathan almost gets executed. And David executed the messanger of Sauls death, and the people who conspired to kill eishboshet, saul's son. solomon executed his brother for conspiracy, 0,00 an |
| 19:01.10 | nerio | d Yoav ben tzoriah for murder, and Shamai Ben Gera for dishonoring David.. anyways, all these punishments with the exception of the capital punishment of Yoav Ben Tzoriah fall under reasons for rebelling against the kingdom. |
| 19:03.41 | voldemortensen | The OT is also oft quoted in the Book of Mormon. |
| 19:05.03 | frostyfrog | It mentioned in Nephi, if I'm not mistaken. "The record of my fathers" or something like that IIRC. |
| 19:06.43 | voldemortensen | something like that. The Book of Mormon starts around 2 Kings (the rule of Zedekiah IIRC). So up to that point, all the scriptures that they have are now considered part of the OT. |
| 19:10.13 | voldemortensen | I can't have that right. |
| 19:10.43 | voldemortensen | It's been awhile since I studied this particular thing. |
| 19:12.24 | voldemortensen | No, I was right. https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/1-ne/1.4?lang=eng |
| 19:13.43 | jfindlay | let's see what Napoleon has to say |
| 19:13.47 | jfindlay | ~napoleon |
| 19:13.47 | infobot | It's a liger, bred for its skills in magic. |
| 19:14.32 | fungus_ | http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/3733/does-the-new-testament-override-the-old-testament |
| 19:15.07 | fungus_ | I think this is what joshh was referring to. |
| 19:18.03 | fungus | https://www.lds.org/ensign/1983/09/the-law-after-christ?lang=eng |
| 19:27.33 | joshh | i just remember back when i was 20ish and had enough free time to argue about religion on the internet, the religious/christian person would often sy the OT was obsolete whenever some militant atheist would point out all the problems with it |
| 19:27.54 | joshh | i really don't know much about the policy around it beyond that |
| 19:28.34 | nerio | as far as Judaism sees it, NT and Christianity is perceived, since its inception, as having the goal of obliteraeting the Torah and Israel; now, jews could apply the biblical "for let every people walk everyone in the name of his god and we will walk in the name of the Lord our God forever" (from Micah), but as for christianity, Judaism can maintain such coexistance only with the Marcionites who explicitly repudiated the identification of the Christian |
| 19:28.34 | nerio | god with the God of Israel and didnt accept the Hebrew Bible as part of the Christian scripture, but interpreted the NT as directed agains the Hebrew Bible |
| 19:30.03 | nerio | There is no possibility of dialogue with Christianity, which claims, blasphemously from the POV of Judaism, that the Bible has a Christian meaning and that He who once gave the Torah then abroagated the commandments |
| 19:31.07 | nerio | this explains the repungance Judaism has for Christianity |
| 19:31.23 | joshh | i know very little about judaism, but it produces a lot of great comedians and actors |
| 19:31.33 | nerio | and its very different from Jewish atteitude to other forms of worship of strange gods, and needless to say, to Islam |
| 19:35.11 | jfindlay | islam doesn't have any intervening history to encumber it's original genocide and polygamy like christianity/judaism, which is how you end up with maniacs like daesh et al being the genocidists du jour |
| 19:38.15 | jima | eightyeight: in case you felt the need (re: my tweet), i'm aware that i'm a terrible person. |
| 19:38.42 | eightyeight | ? |
| 19:38.44 | eightyeight | looks |
| 19:40.02 | eightyeight | jima: which tweet? |
| 19:40.13 | jima | the one i replied to? |
| 19:40.28 | eightyeight | ah. interesting. twitter didn't have it in my notifications |
| 19:40.34 | jima | twitter is a jerk |
| 19:40.39 | fadein | it |
| 19:40.41 | eightyeight | i was confused for a minute |
| 19:40.44 | fadein | 's algorithmic |
| 19:40.53 | jima | understandably, if it didn't notify you :-\ |
| 19:41.05 | jima | fadein: so twitter's algorithm doesn't like me, got it |
| 19:41.18 | jima | it must have algorithmically determined that i'm a terrible person |
| 19:41.27 | eightyeight | you're bad, and you should feel bad |
| 19:41.39 | jima | eightyeight: i know, and i don't! :-D |
| 19:41.42 | eightyeight | :) |
| 19:41.57 | eightyeight | sunday appears to be a good day for me to open up about some questions i have |
| 19:42.13 | eightyeight | i don't mean to troll (i promise that's not my intent), but i can see how some come across that way |
| 19:42.36 | jima | i have a follow-up to that, but it's even more sacrilegious so i probably shouldn't |
| 19:42.42 | eightyeight | (although that tweet wasn't sent on sunday) |
| 19:42.48 | eightyeight | won't be offended |
| 19:42.55 | joshh | link? |
| 19:42.59 | jima | yeah, but others in here might be :-P |
| 19:43.04 | eightyeight | joshh: https://twitter.com/AaronToponce/status/720613511890513924 |
| 19:44.12 | joshh | which is the terrible jima one |
| 19:44.35 | joshh | oh at the bottom? |
| 19:46.59 | jima | yeah |
| 19:47.02 | nerio | jfindlay, Jews see is that Christianity at its very essence, since the day on which the Christian god appeared on earth, as the denial of the right of Judaism to exist; in a sense, denial of its very existance. the relationship between them is unlike any other religions or faiths, whether pagan or islamic, which den the torah of israel and would nullifity it. Christianity does neither, but claims that it *is* judaism and there is no Judaism apart from |
| 19:47.02 | nerio | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:47.32 | nerio | and from Christian POV, the existence of Judaism apart from Christianity has ceased to be legitimate, and its only interpreted as a deviation from the proper divine order of things |
| 19:47.54 | eightyeight | joshh: if you want to see a more lengthy discussion i had yesterday (that still isn't finished), see: https://twitter.com/AaronToponce/status/721818752182919172 |
| 19:48.41 | nerio | They could be reconciled to the continued existance of Jewish people only to the extent that htis existence was severed from the proper existence of mankind, that of the Christian world, whose members are the "true Jews". so the jewish people could be permitted to exist only if their eixstence were disfigured and cursed and degreaded |
| 19:48.57 | joshh | lol |
| 19:49.25 | jfindlay | nerio: probably most religions are existentially exclusive :-) |
| 19:51.02 | nerio | jews started to enter mainstream life of Chrisitan society while remaining Jewish during the emancipation, but this must appear in the eyes of the Church as a challenge to the very root of christianity |
| 19:51.42 | nerio | christianity regards itself as the legitimate heir of Judaism, and the heir cannot take possession of his inheritance while the testator is still alive |
| 19:52.06 | nerio | this doesnt necessarily mean physiocal annihilation |
| 19:52.18 | nerio | but it could mean liquidation |
| 19:52.23 | jfindlay | I'm apathetically challenged or challenged apathetically or something |
| 19:53.08 | joshh | apathetic? |
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| 20:50.07 | romanovic | nerio: I'm less familiar with mainstream Christian dogma on Christianity's succession, maybe this is one point where the LDS church differs from them. |
| 20:51.46 | romanovic | meaning, mormons still believe the House of Israel are the promised people, Christianity didn't somehow displace them as Abraham's seed, inheriting his covenant |
| 20:52.49 | romanovic | and Mormons believe they can share in the blessings of that covenant, but through adoption |
| 20:54.16 | jlp_znc | wow, finally caught up ater not looking at IRC since wednesday. |
| 20:54.28 | fungus | Those are still all euphemisms for "your belief is wrong, you can become right through these mechanisms" |
| 20:54.50 | jlp_znc | holy guacamole (the best kind of guacamole, if you ask me) |
| 20:55.01 | programmerq | hands jlp_znc a towel |
| 20:55.04 | programmerq | that was quite the sprint |
| 20:55.09 | programmerq | hands jlp_znc some water |
| 20:55.15 | jlp_znc | thanks, programmerq |
| 20:55.46 | jlp_znc | so, who was talking about nethack and rogue-like games last week and is doing a talk on them at openwest? |
| 20:55.53 | jlp_znc | fadein, right? |
| 20:56.10 | jlp_znc | fadein: are you going to cover Moira and Omega? |
| 20:56.36 | fadein | jlp_znc: just NetHack |
| 20:56.45 | jlp_znc | awwww |
| 20:56.52 | fadein | I haven't played Moria |
| 20:57.20 | jlp_znc | I can't recommend Moira (it was on VMS as I recall, and took advantage of the keypad on the VT-100 terminal) |
| 20:57.22 | fadein | but, if there is enough interest, maybe we should start up a whole track! |
| 20:57.26 | jlp_znc | but Omega is awesome! |
| 20:57.36 | fadein | jlp_znc: I'm not familiar with Omega |
| 20:57.43 | jlp_znc | what other game lets you "break the bank"? |
| 20:57.52 | jfindlay | fadein: or a conference! |
| 20:58.06 | jlp_znc | let me find you a link... |
| 20:58.09 | fadein | is this the Omega you speak of? http://www.roguebasin.com/index.php?title=Omega |
| 20:58.18 | voldemortensen | I still like Uplink. |
| 20:58.39 | jlp_znc | yes, I think that was it |
| 21:00.02 | jlp_znc | I never played uplink, but from what has been mentioned, it sounds kind of cool |
| 21:00.13 | romanovic | how have I never played Moria? Played a lot of nethack, but I have never been introduced to Moria before now |
| 21:00.14 | fadein | the only trouble with OpenWest, is that preparing for talks isn't very conducive to doing my homework |
| 21:00.29 | fadein | incidentally, that's the only trouble with playing Rougelikes, too |
| 21:00.35 | Migs | http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/04/brilliant-nefarious-journalist-tries-to-foia-obama.html |
| 21:00.53 | jlp_znc | https://sourceforge.net/projects/omega-roguelike/ |
| 21:00.57 | fadein | so by combining the two, I'm kinda crushing my GPA... |
| 21:01.51 | jlp_znc | Omega started you off in "town", where you could join a guild (if you wanted to), visit the shops, and explore the sewers (a dungeon) |
| 21:02.33 | jlp_znc | you could also go out into the countryside and travel around finding other smaller towns, dungeon entrances, and shrines to various dieties |
| 21:03.43 | jlp_znc | but make sure you carry some food with you (buckets of the colonel's lizard parts were the food of choice) or you would likely starve |
| 21:10.36 | TodPunk | jfindlay: the company appears to not be so bad at the moment, but definitely corporate and I am pretty sure their opinion of "get things done" they keep talking to me about is very different than mine |
| 21:11.05 | jlp_znc | TodPunk: you still talking about StorageCraft? |
| 21:11.10 | TodPunk | yes |
| 21:11.41 | TodPunk | jlp_znc: why? |
| 21:11.46 | jlp_znc | I had some recruiter poking me about them, did some research and decided that they were too much in flux for my tastes |
| 21:11.58 | TodPunk | kforce? |
| 21:12.06 | jlp_znc | new owners/CEO/board within the last year or so, total shake up |
| 21:12.14 | jlp_znc | I don't remember who it was, but could have been kforce |
| 21:12.26 | jlp_znc | Guy-something or other? |
| 21:12.36 | TodPunk | They just got bought by a financial firm, new CEO from Dell/Sonicwall, getting rid of dead weight and allocating more to engineering to ramp up their enterprise offerings |
| 21:12.57 | TodPunk | My contact is Gavin |
| 21:13.00 | jlp_znc | Guy White, yeah, it was kforce |
| 21:13.16 | jfindlay | TodPunk: sounds good :) |
| 21:13.45 | jlp_znc | seemed like one of those "our dev team quit and we need to hire a bunch of new people or we're all going to lose our jobs" kind of outfits. |
| 21:13.46 | programmerq | I've had a good experience with the folks at the local kforce office. |
| 21:13.57 | TodPunk | The recruiter, on the phone, was sincerely talking about sending them a thank you email as a followup, which to me sounds desperate and out of touch with the nature of our industry's current trends |
| 21:14.19 | programmerq | TodPunk: yeah, they suggested that to me too. |
| 21:14.33 | programmerq | I don't think I did |
| 21:14.36 | TodPunk | He also asked if I was talking to anyone else at the moment, to which I had to inform him I hear from 3-4 recruiters a day |
| 21:14.45 | TodPunk | I couldn't send them an email if I wanted to |
| 21:14.52 | TodPunk | I don't have their contact info |
| 21:15.19 | jlp_znc | heh |
| 21:15.20 | Migs | http://www.roguetemple.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/omegax.png |
| 21:15.25 | Migs | this seems awfully familiar |
| 21:15.45 | jlp_znc | some kind of tiled interface to Omega? uck. |
| 21:15.54 | jlp_znc | but yeah, that's it |
| 21:16.10 | jlp_znc | note "A mite peckish" means he needs to eat something soon. :-) |
| 21:16.48 | TodPunk | blue wizard needs food badly |
| 21:17.05 | Migs | I used to play this one a lot http://fs181.www.ex.ua/show/31812877/31812877.png?1600 |
| 21:18.37 | jlp_znc | does C not support continuation lines any more? |
| 21:18.46 | jlp_znc | genclr.c:283:18: error: expected expression |
| 21:18.47 | jlp_znc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:18.47 | jlp_znc | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:20.54 | Migs | I suddenly want to play the old Ultima games |
| 21:21.07 | fadein | jlp_znc: that backslash is inside of a string literal |
| 21:21.28 | fadein | not sure that ever worked |
| 21:21.58 | jlp_znc | yes, it's supposed to escape the newline |
| 21:21.58 | fadein | anyway, you can just put multiple string literals across several lines - the preprocessor implicitly concatenates them together for you |
| 21:22.15 | fadein | fprintf (fp, "string1" |
| 21:22.17 | fadein | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:22.21 | fadein | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:22.28 | jlp_znc | used to be able to say |
| 21:22.33 | jlp_znc | fprintf(fp, "string\ |
| 21:22.35 | jlp_znc | string\ |
| 21:22.40 | jlp_znc | string\n"); |
| 21:22.49 | jlp_znc | but apparently that doesn't work in modern C |
| 21:24.04 | jlp_znc | maybe my compiler is defaulting to objective-C? |
| 21:24.26 | jlp_znc | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/797318/how-to-split-a-string-literal-across-multiple-lines-in-c-objective-c <- seems to indicate it still works in regular C |
| 21:25.55 | fadein | well, I'll be. that actually compiled |
| 21:26.09 | *** join/#utah RuShan (~RuShan@68.69.169.116) |
| 21:29.06 | fadein | and does so with GCC 5.3.0 with each of the -std= values the manpage mentions |
| 21:30.56 | jlp_znc | 2631 bash$ gcc --version |
| 21:30.57 | jlp_znc | Configured with: --prefix=/Applications/Xcode.app/Contents/Developer/usr --with-gxx-include-dir=/usr/include/c++/4.2.1 |
| 21:30.59 | jlp_znc | Thread model: posix |
| 21:31.02 | jlp_znc | Apple LLVM version 7.0.2 (clang-700.1.81) |
| 21:31.04 | jlp_znc | Target: x86_64-apple-darwin14.5.0 |
| 21:32.04 | fadein | still builds on my Cygwin box with clang --version = 3.7.1 |
| 21:33.34 | jlp_znc | even trying gcc-5 (Homebrew gcc 5.3.0) on my mac still gives the error. :-( |
| 21:34.21 | fadein | but, I can't find anything about escaping newlines that way within string literals in K&R C, so I'll still go on calling that heresy ;) |
| 21:34.38 | jlp_znc | gee, it worked 30+ years ago |
| 21:35.00 | jlp_znc | whereas foo("string1" |
| 21:35.03 | jlp_znc | "string2") |
| 21:35.07 | jlp_znc | would not have worked back then |
| 21:35.46 | jlp_znc | https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.2/cpp/Initial-processing.html says: |
| 21:36.02 | jlp_znc | A continued line is a line which ends with a backslash, \. The backslash is removed and the following line is joined with the current one. No space is inserted, so you may split a line anywhere, even in the middle of a word. |
| 21:37.55 | jlp_znc | http://lists.apple.com/archives/xcode-users/2010/May/msg00271.html <- "Using backslash newline as a line continuation goes back to at least PCC (1978)." |
| 21:39.02 | jlp_znc | aha |
| 21:39.04 | jlp_znc | http://lists.apple.com/archives/xcode-users/2010/May/msg00276.html |
| 21:39.21 | jlp_znc | apparently, it was removed from the standard in 2005 |
| 21:39.45 | jlp_znc | no, I'm reading it wrong |
| 21:39.50 | jlp_znc | maybe I'm reading it wrong |
| 21:39.55 | jlp_znc | I don't know any more :-/ |
| 21:40.38 | jlp_znc | I think that reference doc says it *should* work. |
| 21:42.45 | nerio | http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/new-york-primary-republican-2016-election/ |
| 21:42.51 | nerio | this is an interesting post |
| 21:44.26 | nerio | its a systemic review of every district in NY |
| 21:44.28 | fadein | my vintage 1988 copy of K&R C didn't mention it. but I wasn't coding C back then, soooooo |
| 21:44.50 | eightyeight | and not a post by nate silver |
| 21:45.21 | eightyeight | granted harry enten is throrough, but this is a bit outside his norm. seems that falls more in nate silver territory traditionally |
| 21:47.46 | nerio | isnt he from ny? |
| 21:47.52 | nerio | how is this outside his territory |
| 22:15.06 | unum | harry enton is the senior political writer |
| 22:19.28 | nerio | ok |
| 22:19.42 | nerio | and how is that not the territory of political writers? |
| 22:36.35 | unum | IAP nominating convention is this saturday |
| 22:40.07 | unum | huh Superdell hasn't anounce his running mate yet |
| 22:40.25 | unum | I wonder if that means he'll be disqualified in twenty minutes |
| 22:40.40 | TodPunk | is his running mate |
| 22:45.09 | jfindlay | subdell |
