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| 01:00.33 | spangborn | Man in tree still in tree. |
| 01:14.15 | TodPunk | just shoot him, problem solved |
| 01:17.26 | joshh | why does anyone even care that he's up there |
| 01:17.32 | joshh | let him come down when ready, or when he falls |
| 01:18.41 | TodPunk | "The public is in danger!" |
| 03:28.30 | eightyeight | 19:13:58 <TodPunk> just shoot him, problem solved |
| 03:28.39 | eightyeight | very utah-pro-2nd-amendment response |
| 03:28.48 | eightyeight | apropos for a political night |
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| 05:49.50 | levi | Watching Cheese Slices on UEN. Best show ever. |
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| 06:47.26 | maquis | TodPunk: unfortunately, seattle is not very pro-2nd-amendment... |
| 06:47.40 | maquis | although they have had a similar response in the past. |
| 06:49.02 | maquis | When I was younger, I remember a news report about a woman who was standing on the edge of a bridge, considering jumping. The police closed down some lanes on the bridge in their attempt to talk her down. Some angry drivers were yelling at her to "jump already" because her hesitation was keeping them from getting home. |
| 06:49.47 | maquis | Hearing that news report seriously damaged my faith in humanity |
| 06:51.16 | maquis | I mean... if someone is perched on the edge of a bridge, trying to decide whether to commit suicide, "just jump already", is honestly the last thing they need to hear. |
| 06:52.15 | maquis | And... imagine if you yelled that, and right after, they did jump. I can't imagine carrying that on my conscience for the rest of my life! |
| 06:54.00 | klys | which of the five branches of philosophy: ethics, metaphysics, epistemology, politics, or aesthetics; would you say has the most to do with the issue of suicide? |
| 06:55.09 | maquis | klys: I would put it with ethics |
| 06:56.05 | klys | is your study of ethics leaning more toward consequential or deontological? |
| 06:56.29 | maquis | I tend to lean toward a practical deontology |
| 06:56.47 | klys | so you straddle the fence, so to speak, in ethics. |
| 06:57.06 | maquis | if you go too straight of deontology (categorical imperative) there are many situations where there is no ethical choice |
| 06:57.32 | klys | there are situations because, you can imagine them? |
| 06:57.47 | maquis | or, there's the traditional "jew in the attic" example, where going too far down the deontological road makes it stupid] |
| 06:58.42 | maquis | klys: deontology says that it is always immoral to lie or withhold information. it is also always immoral to break a promise |
| 06:58.57 | maquis | those can conflict |
| 06:59.10 | maquis | spent too many years in speech and debate |
| 06:59.32 | klys | can you argue those points from a perspective of teleology? |
| 07:00.37 | maquis | which points? |
| 07:00.40 | klys | suppose the situation of withholding information can be passed on |
| 07:01.46 | klys | would this allow one to choose a target person who must withhold information in order to not break a promise |
| 07:02.23 | klys | and supposing that everyone who recieves the edict to withhold information must do so |
| 07:02.30 | maquis | would teleology allow it? sure... |
| 07:03.05 | maquis | under deontology, it is much more of an inherent ethical imperative. <action> is always wrong, simply because it is wrong |
| 07:03.19 | klys | then would the edict to withhold information inevitably produce a new edict to break such a promise |
| 07:04.10 | maquis | klys: this is where deontology gets messy. It is too easy to get into situations where any action or inaction would be unethical |
| 07:04.53 | klys | the edict to withhold information, would you say it already exists in the case of suicide? |
| 07:05.20 | maquis | Oh... we are back to suicide... sorry, got sidetracked |
| 07:06.57 | maquis | I would argue that the case of a person knowing that another is considering suicide is one point where deontology actually fails. Because technically, in that situation, deontology would argue that telling someone who could help that person could be a breach of trust. |
| 07:07.16 | maquis | Teleology would say that you should tell someone who could help, since that would result in a more positive end result |
| 07:07.38 | klys | trust is a management principle. ethics and philosophy are subjects in the humanities. |
| 07:08.04 | maquis | Generally any philosophy of ethics is going to have issues if you take it to extremes, though. |
| 07:08.34 | maquis | Utilitarianism (spock), if taken to the extreme, can be used to justify forced euthanasia. |
| 07:08.44 | klys | so, you think it is Fringe theory versus Simple morality that dictates the rule of the day. |
| 07:09.05 | maquis | Not sure what you mean by that... |
| 07:09.32 | klys | you can be general, accurate, or simple, and sometimes two of the above |
| 07:09.44 | maquis | ah... yes. |
| 07:10.08 | maquis | I don't think that any of the systems of determining ethics works 100% of the time. |
| 07:10.22 | maquis | But, I don't consider my opinion to fall under moral relativism, either. |
| 07:10.35 | klys | relativism, is it a term in ethics? |
| 07:10.47 | maquis | Because I do think that things can be definitely seen as ethical or unethical, given the information about the situation |
| 07:11.05 | maquis | moral relativism is the argument that the society and opinions of the time determine whether something is ethical or not |
| 07:11.40 | klys | what about the edict to break a promise, is that something that can be passed on, perhaps resulting in suicide? |
| 07:13.27 | maquis | klys: if you break the promise, and that results in suicide, deontology would say you were correct. teleology would say you were wrong. moral relativism would depend on your cultural beliefs on suicide to determine whether you were right or wrong |
| 07:13.30 | klys | I think some of your original comments would make sense |
| 07:14.42 | maquis | Anyway, I should be in bed... |
| 07:14.53 | maquis | actually, i should've been in bed a while ago. |
| 07:15.06 | klys | okay, good night! |
| 07:15.08 | maquis | but thanks for the discussion. It was fun |
| 07:15.11 | maquis | g'night |
| 07:15.13 | klys | sure |
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| 13:20.04 | Migs | http://kanyedraw.com/ |
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| 18:43.03 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds |
| 18:43.03 | *** mode/#utah [+o infobot] by ChanServ |
| 18:43.05 | jima | unless you're co-opting those words... |
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| 18:45.59 | jfindlay | I can find a synthetic etymology there |
| 18:51.26 | jlp_znc | youtah: sadly, no, I missed the whole goat named deer thing. was the apple one that man in tree originally threw at the EMS responders? |
| 18:52.31 | jlp_znc | and, jima, according to my scrabble dictionary, "eff" is a word. and so are "ef" and "fe" |
| 18:53.07 | jlp_znc | flood alert: four lines incoming! |
| 18:53.09 | jlp_znc | 2607 bash$ scrabler4 eff 5 ef 5 fe 9 eff *** |
| 18:53.13 | joshh | eff is slang for the f word, i thought |
| 18:53.16 | jlp_znc | well, that didn't work |
| 18:53.26 | jlp_znc | bash$ scrabler4 |
| 18:53.32 | jlp_znc | bash$ scrabler4 eff |
| 18:53.40 | jlp_znc | 5 ef |
| 18:53.41 | jfindlay | who cares about whatever silly scrabble thinks, is it in the OED and/or wiktionary? |
| 18:53.41 | jlp_znc | 5 fe |
| 18:53.45 | jlp_znc | 9 eff *** |
| 18:53.51 | jlp_znc | nine points! |
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| 18:54.10 | jlp_znc | everything is in the OED, I think. |
| 18:54.38 | jfindlay | the real repositories of etymology |
| 18:55.30 | youtah | he came down btw |
| 18:55.30 | jima | jlp_znc: pray tell, where did that 2607 come from? ipv6 prefix? |
| 18:55.54 | jima | oh, pid probably |
| 18:56.20 | jlp_znc | "eff" is in the OED |
| 18:57.39 | jlp_znc | "intr. Brit. colloq. To utter the word 'f---' (redacted because #utah is a family channel); to swear, use profanities. Originally and chiefly in to eff and blind: to use strong expletives, to swear frequently" |
| 18:57.59 | jlp_znc | 2607 is my bash history command number |
| 18:58.10 | jima | ah |
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| 18:59.21 | jfindlay | only 2607? |
| 18:59.55 | jlp_znc | https://github.com/jlp78/dotfiles/blob/master/_bash_funs see around line 460 for my prompt_update function |
| 19:00.06 | jfindlay | my shell history is at 56578 |
| 19:00.30 | jfindlay | also, all the cool people are supposed to be using zsh |
| 19:00.50 | jlp_znc | oh, I zap my history every once in a while, and I have HISTFILESIZE=5000, too |
| 19:00.59 | jlp_znc | zsh. psh. |
| 19:01.30 | jlp_znc | I've been using bash since... mid-'80s? I see no reason to change. |
| 19:01.59 | jfindlay | well, bash can be rather byzantine |
| 19:02.14 | jfindlay | but zsh in some ways is worse in that regard |
| 19:02.38 | jfindlay | I tried fish for a few days but had to give up because it kept punching me in the side ever 3 commands |
| 19:04.13 | jlp_znc | chuckles |
| 19:04.34 | jlp_znc | I used csh for a year before I discovered bash (or bash was created, or something like that) |
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| 19:10.13 | jlp_znc | oh, quora, how I love some of your questions. "How do snipers avoid getting bitten by dangerous animals when they're lying down?" |
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| 19:10.28 | jlp_znc | answer: "same way you do when you're standing up. don't be where dangerous animals are." |
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| 19:34.46 | youtah | anyone figured out yet what Domo does? |
| 19:35.23 | programmerq | youtah: business intelligence and a slack competitor |
| 19:35.25 | programmerq | and billboards |
| 19:35.29 | programmerq | and alcohol |
| 19:35.30 | programmerq | that's all I know |
| 19:35.35 | jima | no, but i saw them picking people up at the airport for domopalooza on monday |
| 19:35.36 | youtah | LOL |
| 19:35.52 | youtah | "business cloud" |
| 19:36.10 | programmerq | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ntPxdWAWq8 - cloud |
| 19:36.16 | jima | youtah: those are the clouds that get stuck on the east mountains by my work |
| 19:36.17 | programmerq | this came out while I worked for HP |
| 19:36.22 | programmerq | we laughed at it for weeks. |
| 19:36.36 | youtah | The worlds first open, self service platform, for running your entire business |
| 19:36.37 | jima | programmerq: yeah, we've poked fun at our account team at hp about that |
| 19:36.49 | jima | (i didn't even need to follow the link.) |
| 19:37.00 | jima | sorry, hpe* |
| 19:37.09 | programmerq | it wasn't hpe yet |
| 19:37.17 | jima | well, it is now :-) |
| 19:38.06 | programmerq | one thousand |
| 19:38.49 | youtah | this is brilliant |
| 19:41.04 | youtah | (the video) |
| 19:42.37 | jima | granted, hpe is our "private cloud" vendor |
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| 20:20.09 | spangborn | I saw pashdown today ;p |
| 20:22.29 | *** join/#utah youtah (~Jeff@50.243.6.92) |
| 20:22.46 | spangborn | resets youtah's connection |
| 20:23.38 | youtah | resets spangborn's mom |
| 20:23.53 | spangborn | apologizes to youtah for having to do that |
| 20:23.57 | youtah | lol |
| 20:24.06 | youtah | infobot is back! |
| 20:24.11 | youtah | ~youtah |
| 20:24.11 | infobot | Mmmm Bacon |
| 20:24.15 | youtah | ~trump |
| 20:24.15 | infobot | Well, that's a shame. |
| 20:24.22 | youtah | ~cruz |
| 20:24.22 | infobot | missiles? |
| 20:24.40 | spangborn | ./shun youtah |
| 20:24.45 | spangborn | Oh did I type that out loud? |
| 20:26.20 | youtah | lol |
| 20:26.26 | youtah | ~cruz |
| 20:26.26 | infobot | Did someone say Cruise missiles? |
| 20:26.41 | youtah | ~cruz |
| 20:26.41 | infobot | Did someone say Cruz missiles? |
| 20:26.47 | youtah | (randomized now) |
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| 20:33.32 | voldemortensen | ~youtah |
| 20:33.32 | infobot | Did someone say Nachos? |
| 20:44.35 | unum | vote.openwest.org has the 2015 dates on it still |
| 20:47.45 | voldemortensen | ah man. I totally missed cfp.. |
| 20:47.59 | jfindlay | mee too |
| 20:48.19 | TodPunk | I'm pretty sure you've been involved in some of the discussions about the CFP here before... |
| 20:49.35 | jfindlay | TodPunk: does that make me into a responsible person somehow? |
| 20:49.58 | TodPunk | just that you didn't "miss" it, I'd say |
| 20:49.58 | jfindlay | or do I still have free license to complain about the effects of my own laziness? |
| 20:50.16 | TodPunk | oh, you definitely have an MIT level license to complain, sure |
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| 20:54.42 | jfindlay | nice |
| 20:55.10 | jfindlay | does that grant me the right to protest in the free speech zone at OW? |
| 21:02.24 | unum | we should totally create one of those |
| 21:02.49 | unum | I think I'll make a poster about the evils of teach emacs |
| 21:02.54 | jfindlay | I'm sure you can find some loophole in the code of conduct to allow it |
| 21:02.57 | unum | actually I'll protest the .net track |
| 21:08.37 | unum | I keep seeing ones and thinking, "I could present on that" then I realize oh ya that's mine |
| 21:11.19 | RyanE | as long as you only allow speech within the free speech zone to be in binary. |
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| 21:13.31 | unum | eightyeight: is the mechanical keyboard one yours? |
| 21:14.19 | eightyeight | the mechanical keyboard? |
| 21:14.32 | eightyeight | i have one on my desk i'm typing with now, and one at home i use primarily with my laptop |
| 21:15.27 | jfindlay | do you have a mechanical mouse? |
| 21:15.45 | spangborn | I prefer biological mice. |
| 21:15.49 | eightyeight | i have a gaming mouse, where i can control resolution and weight |
| 21:16.13 | eightyeight | er, not weight. frequency? |
| 21:16.16 | eightyeight | looks at the right term |
| 21:16.39 | jfindlay | do you have a mechanical Turk? |
| 21:16.57 | eightyeight | my grandpa called me 'turk' my entire life, and still does |
| 21:17.10 | eightyeight | my mouse: http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-mice/razer-abyssus-mirror |
| 21:17.17 | spangborn | I hope he's not Greek. |
| 21:17.40 | eightyeight | pioneer stock |
| 21:18.08 | spangborn | Stereotypically, the Greeks do not like the Turks |
| 21:18.22 | eightyeight | he has a nickname for every grandkid and great-grandkid |
| 21:21.19 | unum | eightyeight: I should have been more specific. The open west proposal |
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| 21:23.14 | eightyeight | unum: i don't know what you're referring to, so probably not |
| 21:25.23 | unum | eightyeight: voting has open up on openwest talks and under hardware is one on mechanical keyboards |
| 21:26.14 | eightyeight | ah. i haven't looked yet. heh. |
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| 21:43.09 | unum | 3 letsencrypt talks |
| 21:43.10 | unum | nice |
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| 21:44.37 | jfindlay | I was going to submit a crypto talk |
| 21:44.49 | jfindlay | maybe I'll have my own conference |
| 21:44.59 | jfindlay | I'll let you know when I get around to scheduling that |
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| 21:51.07 | youtah | ~nacho |
| 21:51.08 | infobot | Do you remember when the people were shouting my name and I used my strength to rip my blouse? |
| 21:51.11 | youtah | ~nachos |
| 21:51.12 | infobot | schweet. |
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| 22:29.16 | youtah | TodPunk.... LDUG tonight? |
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| 22:29.29 | youtah | ~LDUG |
| 22:29.30 | infobot | ldug is probably Lehi Developers User Group: http://www.meetup.com/Lehi-Developers-User-Group/ |
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| 22:33.24 | shalkie | http://www.theglobeandmail.com//news/world/man-nested-in-seattle-giant-sequoia-tree-comes-down-after-24-hours/article29365556/?cmpid=rss1&click=sf_globe |
| 22:33.29 | shalkie | The Drama is Over |
| 22:34.01 | youtah | watched him climb down from the tree on a live video stream </hipster> |
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| 23:07.16 | jlp_znc | awwww |
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