| 00:09.25 | Tod-Work | I wonder if Geneva Rock will deliver on President's Day |
| 00:09.29 | Tod-Work | Probably not |
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| 00:32.09 | spangborn | ~seen youtah |
| 00:32.17 | infobot | youtah is currently on #utah (2d 5h 19m 20s). Has said a total of 50 messages. Is idling for 22h 20m 38s, last said: 'shalkie, are you at the LDUG?'. |
| 00:32.26 | spangborn | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
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| 00:40.33 | jfindlay | ~youtah |
| 00:40.33 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, youtah is a jealous jerk |
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| 04:16.08 | youtah | spangborn, you still around? |
| 04:16.30 | youtah | ~jmcgrath ++ |
| 04:16.44 | youtah | ~karma youtah |
| 04:16.44 | infobot | youtah has karma of 4 |
| 04:16.54 | youtah | ~jmcgrath++ |
| 04:16.58 | youtah | ~karma youtah |
| 04:16.58 | infobot | youtah has karma of 4 |
| 04:17.06 | youtah | ~karma comcast |
| 04:17.06 | infobot | comcast has karma of -230 |
| 04:17.15 | youtah | ~comcast-- |
| 04:17.18 | youtah | ~karma comcast |
| 04:17.18 | infobot | comcast has karma of -231 |
| 04:17.22 | youtah | heh |
| 04:17.32 | youtah | ~nachos++ |
| 04:17.37 | youtah | ~karma nachos |
| 04:17.37 | infobot | nachos has karma of 8 |
| 04:17.49 | youtah | ~bacon++ |
| 04:17.54 | youtah | ~karma bacon |
| 04:17.54 | infobot | bacon has karma of 33 |
| 04:18.10 | youtah | ~"bacon nachos"++ |
| 04:18.18 | youtah | ~karma "bacon nachos" |
| 04:18.18 | infobot | "bacon nachos" has neutral karma |
| 04:18.30 | youtah | ~'bacon nachos'++ |
| 04:18.38 | youtah | ~karma 'bacon nachos' |
| 04:18.38 | infobot | 'bacon nachos' has neutral karma |
| 04:18.45 | youtah | ~karma "bacon nachos" |
| 04:18.45 | infobot | "bacon nachos" has neutral karma |
| 04:18.50 | youtah | ~karma bacon nachos |
| 04:18.50 | infobot | bacon nachos has neutral karma |
| 04:18.56 | youtah | hmmmm, dang |
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| 05:12.28 | levi | Wheeeeeee, C's "usual arithmetic conversions" strike again! |
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| 16:39.38 | keldwud | okay, headed out to IKEA. if you wanna do lunch, hit me up and I'll pm you my number or if you already have my number, text me anytime |
| 16:49.57 | jfindlay | SaltConf early registration discount ends today |
| 16:58.55 | Tod-Work | doesn't have hundreds of dollars to dedicate to Salt =c/ |
| 17:09.27 | asoc | Anyone have expierence with both git and mercurial? |
| 17:12.20 | Tod-Work | yes |
| 17:13.54 | asoc | Besides different feel and workflow differences does one outshine the other from a technological level? or are they both pretty on par with each other? |
| 17:15.37 | Tod-Work | git is better in most scenarios I've thrown at them, but not enough to switch FROM mercurial if you're already on it. I won't start new projects in mercurial, but the hassle of switching isn't worth redoing my tooling in projects already in hg |
| 17:15.59 | Tod-Work | The biggest difference to me is branching in mercurial was tacked on and has... fun issues |
| 17:16.24 | Tod-Work | so I end up branching-by-clone in hg rather than just switching branches |
| 17:20.42 | asoc | We are coming from svn. |
| 17:21.56 | asoc | some people are worried about scale and have leaned toward hg due to the work facebook has done to make it wicked fast with large repositories. |
| 17:22.15 | asoc | But there are others (myself included) that would rather choose git since we are used to using it. |
| 17:22.52 | asoc | They also say that hg is easier to pick up on coming from svn |
| 17:24.22 | Tod-Work | uh, no, hg and git are very similar |
| 17:24.39 | Tod-Work | working with svn and going to either is going to be a learning curve if anyone is to do anything right |
| 17:24.52 | Tod-Work | both perform well with large repos so long as there aren't a lot of binaries |
| 17:25.04 | Tod-Work | I mean, the linux kernel is not a small repo |
| 17:25.24 | Tod-Work | BOTH will require a discipline change for your team, and tooling to help |
| 17:25.36 | asoc | True. Here is the fb article: https://code.facebook.com/posts/218678814984400/scaling-mercurial-at-facebook/ |
| 17:25.44 | asoc | it was actually pretty interesting. |
| 17:26.18 | Tod-Work | mercurial's merging is also not as effective. It won't even try most of the time, and just punts it to you to figure out |
| 17:26.30 | asoc | Our codebase is closer to the size of facebook than to the size of the kinux kernel. |
| 17:26.34 | Tod-Work | "two people inserted code at the same point in the file, I can't do this." |
| 17:27.07 | asoc | hmm interesting. |
| 17:27.18 | levi | asoc: Do you want everything in a huge monorepo with binary assets and all? |
| 17:27.53 | Tod-Work | recommends sticking with svn |
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| 17:28.45 | asoc | Maybe I will have to pull out hg and play with it a bit. |
| 17:29.06 | levi | Perforce is a reasonable solution for gigantic monorepos, and they support using git as a front-end. |
| 17:29.40 | Tod-Work | The things people do for distributed source control are: hg clone, hg add, hg commit, hg push, hg pull, hg merge |
| 17:30.11 | Tod-Work | or, in git: git clone, git add, git commit, git push, git pull, git merge |
| 17:30.18 | levi | Facebook's hg mods are basically making hg act more like Perforce+git rather than like pure git or hg. |
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| 17:30.44 | Tod-Work | if people want to talk to you about git rebase and stuff, they shouldn't be rewriting history |
| 17:31.01 | levi | Tod-Work: Ugh. |
| 17:31.25 | asoc | levi: We are moving to get most if not all of our binary apart from our source code repos. |
| 17:32.01 | levi | I wish people would not think of rebase as "rewriting history". I mean, it can do that, but it is actually useful as a 'clean up my random local commits before pushing them' tool. |
| 17:32.18 | asoc | Tod-Work: I do like using rebase to make a bazillion commits to take notes on what I am doing and then rebase them into one commit that will be pushed to the remote repo. |
| 17:32.36 | Tod-Work | 0 reason to do that |
| 17:32.42 | Tod-Work | just push all the commits |
| 17:32.49 | levi | No, that's terrible advice. |
| 17:33.18 | levi | I don't want to review the 20 separate changes you had to make to get your thing right. |
| 17:33.39 | levi | And I certainly don't want that in the central repo history making no sense at all. |
| 17:33.41 | Tod-Work | why would your review tooling make you review them separately? |
| 17:34.11 | Tod-Work | you also shouldn't be committing every line you change separately |
| 17:34.20 | levi | Why would you rely on review tooling to make up for crappy patch sets? |
| 17:34.35 | Tod-Work | because git isn't a review tool |
| 17:34.49 | levi | You should be able to commit whenever you want to bookmark the current state. |
| 17:34.51 | Tod-Work | you can diff between branches and stuff |
| 17:34.59 | asoc | it also comes up when looking to see what commit introduced a bug with a bisect. |
| 17:35.05 | Tod-Work | so you can see the changes in aggregate |
| 17:35.14 | asoc | Sifting through those oh crap typo commits can be annoying. |
| 17:35.52 | levi | Tod-Work: That's one way of viewing things, and my opinion comes down firmly against it, but I will cease trying to convince you. |
| 17:36.16 | Tod-Work | regardless, my standpoint is, sadly, an ideal, and has very little bearing on reality, because your team will NOT be disciplined enough to follow any of this anyway |
| 17:36.45 | Tod-Work | git gives you these tools specifically because the screwups happen, for all of us |
| 17:38.13 | levi | I don't even think your viewpoint is ideal in general. Certainly it can be done well and produce good results, but it's a tradeoff vs. other strategies. |
| 17:38.39 | Tod-Work | it's idyllic in that it requires people to behave in an ideal fashion for any of the benefits |
| 17:39.02 | Tod-Work | less to do with git and more to do with people, is what I'm saying |
| 17:39.10 | Tod-Work | which is, ultimately, where I fail in my position |
| 17:39.45 | asoc | People usually end up being a bigger kink in process than software does. |
| 17:39.47 | levi | I think the general premise is ignoring a use case for git that is one of the things that separates it from hg or other VC systems. |
| 17:40.30 | Tod-Work | the fact that git lets you shoot yourself in the foot and lets you save yourself from the bleeding? |
| 17:41.05 | Tod-Work | we screw up hg repos occasionally, it's usually more of a hassle than fixing things in the git repos I've worked in |
| 17:41.05 | levi | If you have a clear separation between branches that are rebaseable vs those that aren't, then there's no foot-shooting. |
| 17:41.14 | Tod-Work | If |
| 17:41.41 | Tod-Work | Your coworker is going to mess that up for you more often than you would like =cP |
| 17:43.08 | levi | No, I don't think they're any more likely to do that. Mostly they just don't do it. |
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| 17:44.32 | ranomore1 | But you're still going to have to scour the internet looking for the right band-aids to save yourself from the bleeding, right? |
| 17:44.52 | Tod-Work | ranomore1, most people do, yes |
| 17:44.54 | levi | In the past, it was really easy to shoot yourself in the foot with rebasing, but it's actually kind of hard now. |
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| 17:45.13 | Tod-Work | levi, agreed, it's matured a lot |
| 17:45.56 | Tod-Work | ranomore1, if you have a really good mental model of how branches and such work in git repos, and you know the commands, it's pretty easy. It's just hard to remember those when you don't need them THAT often |
| 17:46.43 | levi | There are lots of reasonable workflows with which to use git; I think it's more important that you and your coworkers use it consistently than with any particular workflow. |
| 17:48.03 | ranomore1 | Are commit hooks easier to work with in git or hg? |
| 17:48.17 | levi | But my preference is definitely for a workflow that ends up with a clean history of patches in the main repo. Makes it so much easier to use the repo to understand how the project has changed over time. |
| 17:48.40 | levi | But then, I think I generally dig into that sort of thing a lot more than your average developer. |
| 17:48.56 | Tod-Work | ranomore1, neither are easy |
| 17:49.16 | Tod-Work | ranomore1, I always prefer the route of webhooks from bitbucket/github/gitlab |
| 17:51.09 | ranomore1 | hmm |
| 17:53.10 | Tod-Work | (the webhook difficulty level is the comparison baseline for me) |
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| 18:25.27 | asoc | Tod-Work levi Thanks for your input! |
| 18:25.57 | asoc | It gives me something to play with to get a better idea of the two. |
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| 21:17.15 | Tod-Work | !ping |
| 21:17.29 | Tod-Work | totally the wrong channel |
| 21:17.51 | jfindlay | noway, #utah is always the right place |
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| 21:19.12 | Tod-Work | #utah is rarely the answer |
| 21:20.51 | Enemby | ~napoleon |
| 21:20.51 | infobot | Wait, I forgot the crystals. |
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