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| 16:01.55 | eightyeight | Tod-Work: actually, i've been dusting of my C skills, and have decided, regardless of platform, that i'll stick with strictly C11 |
| 16:02.09 | eightyeight | regardless, that image is still entertaining. :) |
| 16:04.33 | Tod-Work | eh, I have no need to write C. If I ever have to do that low level of work, I'll do it in Forth or something else more sane |
| 16:04.42 | Tod-Work | My C days are behind me |
| 16:05.02 | Tod-Work | If you enjoy it, mind you, I'm not saying don't do it |
| 16:05.05 | eightyeight | i have some devious plans with the linux kernel i plan to contribute to |
| 16:06.00 | Tod-Work | Right now I'm in JS land, and only because it's literally the only option with the browser =c( |
| 16:06.20 | Tod-Work | Probably will be for some time |
| 16:06.38 | eightyeight | i enjoy me some node server-side for nothing other than educational value |
| 16:07.05 | eightyeight | python is still the goto in that regard, with perl coming in 2nd |
| 16:07.13 | jlp_znc | I'm sticking with C69, myself. good ol' K&R C was good enough for my grandpa, so it's good enough or me! |
| 16:07.25 | jlp_znc | we don't need those stinkin' ANSI extensions |
| 16:07.44 | Tod-Work | you shouldn't be using node on the server side for anything serious anyway |
| 16:08.28 | jlp_znc | "back in my day, we played fast and loose with arguments and automatic variables. and we LIKED it!" |
| 16:08.29 | Tod-Work | I keep trying to make it not-a-toy, and it's just not even close to being realistic as a systems architecture |
| 16:08.42 | eightyeight | meh |
| 16:08.51 | Tod-Work | python is fine for web request handling, and is my goto in either flask or pyramid |
| 16:08.58 | eightyeight | right now, my only big gripe with node server-side, is performance |
| 16:09.00 | eightyeight | it's horrid |
| 16:09.07 | eightyeight | <3 flask |
| 16:09.08 | Tod-Work | yes |
| 16:09.12 | eightyeight | speedy web dev there |
| 16:09.24 | eightyeight | haven't done anything with pyramid |
| 16:09.25 | Tod-Work | flask is good until you get big enough, and then it fights you and gets in your way |
| 16:09.38 | eightyeight | indeed |
| 16:09.50 | eightyeight | i've gone to django (for better or worse) when it gets to that point |
| 16:09.57 | Tod-Work | A lot of people seem to disagree, but their bigger stuff has race conditions like no other |
| 16:10.04 | Tod-Work | django is fine |
| 16:10.09 | eightyeight | just complex |
| 16:10.11 | Tod-Work | it's just very opinionated |
| 16:10.36 | Tod-Work | I don't like having to use everything they include or spend eons replacing it through middleware and nonsense |
| 16:10.50 | Tod-Work | feels like trying to administer drupal more than programming |
| 16:10.56 | eightyeight | i've really enjoyed flask for putting something together quick and painless |
| 16:11.00 | eightyeight | rarely do i need to look outside it |
| 16:11.43 | Tod-Work | I have way more flask apps than pyramid, I'll give you that =cP |
| 16:12.31 | jlp_znc | I see my trolling has gone unnoticed. |
| 16:12.33 | jlp_znc | weeps |
| 16:13.02 | eightyeight | jlp_znc: it's okay. we all know you still use your amiga for day-to-day |
| 16:13.50 | jlp_znc | I only wish I had an amiga! |
| 16:14.10 | jlp_znc | I had a co-worker who had one. blew the doors off the Atari ST |
| 16:15.03 | Tod-Work | amiga is my go-to example of the example of superior tech not winning at all |
| 16:15.11 | eightyeight | i think pashdown started xmission with an amiga workstation |
| 16:15.18 | pashdown | sort of |
| 16:15.41 | pashdown | i used a sun sparc classic for the server, but i used an amiga 2000 to connect into it to work |
| 16:15.46 | Tod-Work | the phrase tends to go: "if we chose superior technology we'd be using amiga and betamax" |
| 16:16.03 | Tod-Work | good times |
| 16:16.11 | eightyeight | recalls pashdown's amiga ascii art signature on usenet |
| 16:16.14 | Tod-Work | played with some sparcs |
| 16:16.40 | Tod-Work | man, the things I missed by coming to utah in the days of broadband |
| 16:17.11 | eightyeight | heh |
| 16:17.29 | eightyeight | i miss usenet, but not bad enough to install a client for it |
| 16:17.56 | eightyeight | although, i did give gnus(1) a hearty configuration try. after 400 lines of config, i gave up. |
| 16:18.08 | eightyeight | really is too old to write a mail client to use his mail client |
| 16:18.22 | jlp_znc | Thunderbird has a fairly decent news reading client. |
| 16:18.30 | eightyeight | but no hashcash support |
| 16:18.38 | eightyeight | (which was another driving factor to gnus) |
| 16:18.39 | jlp_znc | but gnus (when configured nicely) is definitely the king. |
| 16:19.06 | eightyeight | email+pgp+hashcash and usenet and rss make it an attractive "news" client |
| 16:19.11 | eightyeight | for me |
| 16:19.17 | jlp_znc | I never did use gnus or e-mail, though. I knew people who did. I did use MH, but I used exmh on top of nmh. |
| 16:19.24 | eightyeight | but good fscking hell, it's a pita to configure |
| 16:19.55 | jlp_znc | it's really not that bad. I can share my gnus-etc.el file with you if you like. it's only 20 years old or so. |
| 16:20.02 | eightyeight | haha |
| 16:20.04 | eightyeight | meh |
| 16:20.34 | eightyeight | sticks with mutt |
| 16:20.39 | jlp_znc | https://github.com/jlp78/dotfiles/blob/master/lib/emacs/gnus-etc.el |
| 16:20.59 | eightyeight | https://github.com/atoponce/dotfiles/blob/master/.gnus is what i had |
| 16:22.02 | eightyeight | maybe i'll look back into getting it working |
| 16:22.31 | jlp_znc | I used to run one emacs instance just for gnus. the other instance was for editing everything else. |
| 16:22.58 | jlp_znc | that gnus-etc.el is circa 1999 or so. |
| 16:23.49 | eightyeight | i really did enjoy org mode |
| 16:23.57 | eightyeight | kind of miss that, actually |
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| 16:29.34 | jfindlay | I use thunderbird |
| 16:29.47 | jfindlay | if you disable caching, it works well |
| 16:30.21 | jfindlay | otherwise if gets really slow trying to write it's 200MiB cache every 5 seconds |
| 16:31.04 | eightyeight | no hashcash support though |
| 16:31.11 | jfindlay | what is that? |
| 16:31.23 | eightyeight | and a tui client allows me to run it on a centralized remote location |
| 16:32.06 | jfindlay | yeah. I've found mutt to be too buggy |
| 16:32.14 | eightyeight | o.0 |
| 16:32.19 | eightyeight | it's remarkably stable |
| 16:32.35 | jfindlay | the last time I tried it with IMAP |
| 16:32.38 | eightyeight | http://hashcash.org/ |
| 16:32.55 | eightyeight | i've been running it with imap/smtp builtin support, for close to a decade, without problems |
| 16:32.56 | jfindlay | also, I prefer the sidebar(s) |
| 16:33.11 | eightyeight | ah. that explains it. |
| 16:33.16 | jfindlay | :) |
| 16:33.23 | eightyeight | yeah. the mutt patch indeed kills its stability |
| 16:33.32 | eightyeight | that lasted all of a day for me |
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| 16:46.50 | unum | so what good technology conferences are happing in Utah this year |
| 16:46.55 | unum | besides open west of oucre |
| 16:46.58 | unum | course |
| 16:47.25 | jfindlay | saltconf |
| 16:47.51 | unum | that's tempting |
| 16:48.02 | eightyeight | bsides is happening or happened |
| 16:48.06 | unum | why are there 5 different javascript conferences |
| 16:48.10 | eightyeight | saintcon in october, of course |
| 16:48.42 | jfindlay | unum: register before the 5th to get the early discount |
| 16:48.43 | unum | bsides is in march |
| 16:48.47 | eightyeight | hmm. march |
| 16:48.49 | eightyeight | yeah |
| 16:48.51 | eightyeight | https://www.bsidesslc.org/2016.html |
| 16:49.17 | jfindlay | eightyeight demurred on going to bsides with me :( |
| 16:49.24 | eightyeight | will YAPC be in slc again this year? |
| 16:49.52 | jfindlay | because all the perl programmers left in the world are in Utah? |
| 16:50.38 | jfindlay | unum: the same reason there are 5M javascript frameworks |
| 16:50.52 | jfindlay | ~nacho |
| 16:50.52 | infobot | The people here think I don't know a buttload of crap about the gospel, but I do! |
| 16:54.00 | unum | YAPC was fun |
| 16:54.03 | unum | I wish was here again |
| 16:55.30 | eightyeight | there's also MWRC |
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| 16:59.32 | Jayce^ | eightyeight: no, YAPC is in Orlando this year |
| 17:00.06 | eightyeight | didn't know if there were multiple regional versions, and if the SLC YAPC was a new thing |
| 17:00.31 | eightyeight | orlando could be a fun vacation |
| 17:04.14 | Jayce^ | SLC was us making a bid to host |
| 17:04.44 | Jayce^ | think, olympic bidding.. |
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| 17:04.51 | Jayce^ | with less hookers |
| 17:05.01 | Tod-Work | less? |
| 17:05.05 | Tod-Work | That doesn't sound like fun |
| 17:07.48 | SunSparc | I think that would be fewer. ;) |
| 17:08.05 | SunSparc | Still not as fun. |
| 17:08.20 | unum | the SLC organziers were encouraged to make an other bid |
| 17:08.43 | SunSparc | With more hookers? |
| 17:09.37 | Jayce^ | yeah, it'll be coming back in a couple years, they really liked what we did |
| 17:11.00 | eightyeight | nice |
| 17:11.58 | SunSparc | Cast not your perls before swine. |
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| 17:48.35 | unum | I should see how many different tracks I can submit a talk for for openwest |
| 17:57.31 | unum | it's been a long time since I've been a community leader so I don't think I can do anything there |
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| 19:06.11 | jcp | Oooh, Bruce Schneierâs keynoting |
| 19:06.14 | jcp | is so going |
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| 19:09.07 | SunSparc | Cool! |
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| 19:11.07 | SunSparc | Ah, OpenWest is in Sandy this year instead of Orem. Longer drive for me, but closer to the airport for others. |
| 19:11.20 | SunSparc | mindjuju: Way to go getting Bruce. |
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| 19:56.19 | eightyeight | http://cosbybebop.ytmnd.com/ |
| 20:10.49 | jlp_znc | Websense has been set to block this site. |
| 20:10.52 | jlp_znc | :-( |
| 20:13.18 | eightyeight | o.0 |
| 20:55.07 | unum_ | it's close for me, andmy coworkers |
| 20:55.42 | unum_ | the expo center will be nice because that way if they can only get away for a session or two they can just drive down and back |
| 21:03.22 | unum | so df -h says 45gb is used du -sh says 9gb is used |
| 21:03.29 | unum | I think I've got a problem |
| 21:03.37 | jfindlay | sparse files/partitions? |
| 21:04.00 | jfindlay | I recall that being on my google phone interview |
| 21:08.58 | goozbach | sparse files, or multiple mounts |
| 21:09.04 | goozbach | or⦠|
| 21:11.52 | SunSparc | It is only off by a factor of 5. |
| 21:12.06 | SunSparc | Good enough, right? |
| 21:12.54 | jfindlay | yeah, not even an order of magnitude |
| 21:14.06 | SunSparc | :) |
| 21:28.33 | jlp_znc | open file that has been unlinked |
| 21:29.10 | jlp_znc | try sudo lsof +aL1 /filesystem |
| 21:29.44 | jlp_znc | find the process that owns the offending file and kill it! |
| 21:29.51 | jlp_znc | kill! kill! kill! |
| 21:29.57 | Jayce^ | so, north Orem (canyon park area) lost power.. anybody else? |
| 21:33.06 | SunSparc | South Provo, still at full power. |
| 21:34.18 | unum | jlp_znc: I think thats what it is |
| 21:34.29 | unum | I bet I already know what it is |
| 21:34.41 | unum | I was going to restart the process but I realized now is the worst time |
| 21:34.48 | unum | I'll try it in the morning and see if it fixes it |
| 21:35.05 | unum | I was hoping log rotate would solve my problem, but it seems it just made it harderd to find |
| 21:35.09 | jlp_znc | typically, it's a program that opens a log file, and then some dope (like me) removes the file. |
| 21:35.14 | jlp_znc | lsof is your friend |
| 21:35.55 | unum | one time I run bzip2 on an active log file. |
| 21:36.06 | unum | guess what it does after it compresses the file? |
| 21:36.17 | jlp_znc | unlinks it |
| 21:36.19 | jlp_znc | wheee |
| 21:36.40 | jlp_znc | you're not dead, though. if you have /proc mounted, you can still get to it and truncate it. |
| 21:36.51 | Migs | my kids made a 360-degree stop motion video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDVvGZN5SIQ |
| 21:37.13 | Migs | might have to rotate it a bit at first |
| 21:37.28 | jlp_znc | lsof will tell you the pid and fd number, then take a look at /proc/pid/fd/N, try "cp /dev/null /proc/pid/fd/N" (where you replace pid and N with the pid and fd of the file) |
| 21:37.42 | unum | hmm looks like I should just link the log file to a file on home |
| 21:37.52 | unum | didn't realize I had allowed it partition like that |
| 21:38.02 | jlp_znc | it's still going to continue to grow, but at least you can keep it from getting too huge and eating all your disk |
| 21:38.25 | unum | well it's not growing that fast |
| 21:38.31 | unum | I can restart it tomorrow morning |
| 21:38.32 | jlp_znc | hard to link it, because you can't do cross filesystem links, but you can access it, at least |
| 21:38.50 | jlp_znc | if your disk is nearly full, the cp /dev/null trick will truncate the file |
| 21:38.50 | unum | so I'll just wait until tomorrow |
| 21:39.06 | unum | I have a script on all my server that emails me when they reach 80% |
| 21:39.26 | unum | today we reached 81% tomorrow will probably be 82% |
| 21:40.52 | jlp_znc | there are ways to relink the file with debugfs, but it's pretty scary. |
| 21:41.01 | unum | I don't need the file |
| 21:41.13 | unum | it's just connection notices for a jabber server |
| 21:41.16 | unum | thanks for your help |
| 21:41.34 | unum | it's nice to know for sure that's what it is |
| 21:41.36 | jlp_znc | use the cp /dev/null thing, all your space comes back and the pressure is off. what if someone DDoS's your jabber server tonight? |
| 21:42.24 | unum | unlikely on an internal server |
| 21:42.30 | unum | I guess there could be a bugy client |
| 21:42.34 | unum | or vpn connection |
| 21:46.14 | jlp_znc | ooo, https://github.com/pkt/frelink |
| 21:46.23 | jlp_znc | evil, but cool |
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