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| 02:25.31 | keldwud | so.... |
| 02:25.39 | keldwud | I need an adult |
| 02:25.58 | keldwud | turns out karate instructor is being inappropriate with my daughter |
| 02:26.19 | d3c4f | you ARE an adult |
| 02:26.25 | d3c4f | call the police |
| 02:31.31 | TodPunk | you'll probably have to define inappropriate if you want advice, but I will say if you're enraged it's probably not useful as a state to assess things. |
| 02:31.37 | keldwud | yeah, I don't know if I want to put my daughter through that experience |
| 02:31.48 | keldwud | no, I slept on it |
| 02:32.06 | keldwud | inappropriate looking and copping a feel is what she has experienced |
| 02:32.24 | keldwud | she said she doesn't like it but she has also not exhibited trauma |
| 02:32.36 | keldwud | I definitely will have authorities involved at one point |
| 02:32.43 | d3c4f | yeah, you need to have her talk to a police counselor |
| 02:32.51 | keldwud | but I need to make sure my 7 year old isn't pulled through a bunch of shit |
| 02:32.52 | d3c4f | it NEEDS to be recorded |
| 02:32.58 | d3c4f | not just for her, but for other kids |
| 02:33.13 | d3c4f | terrible situation though, sorry you guys have to go through that |
| 02:33.13 | keldwud | because right now she is okay and I don't want to make her feel like something is wrong. I definitely want her ot understand the inappropriateness |
| 02:33.41 | keldwud | no worries. I think we will be okay. I actually feel blessed that our first experience with sexual harassment was a "mild" case and not something more serious |
| 02:33.50 | keldwud | because I know that we would experience it sooner than later |
| 02:34.02 | d3c4f | why would you think that? |
| 02:34.04 | TodPunk | I'm going to play devil's advocate and say that karate is a pretty all-contact thing and there's going to be a lot of looking that could easily be misinterpreted as inappropriate, and touching that many times IS inappropriate in non-karate formats, especially in grappling |
| 02:34.06 | keldwud | because I live in a culture that sexualizes women of all ages |
| 02:34.09 | d3c4f | It's NOT normal |
| 02:34.10 | keldwud | and sexual harassment is a reality |
| 02:34.18 | keldwud | it isn't normal, you're right about that |
| 02:34.24 | d3c4f | maybe a reality, but it's NOT normal |
| 02:34.26 | keldwud | but women experience sexual harassment wherever they go |
| 02:34.35 | keldwud | so I knew that we would run into it someday |
| 02:34.54 | TodPunk | so I would be wary of jumping to conclusions on the subject but ask questions that don't frame the answers as one thing |
| 02:34.59 | keldwud | TodPunk, she showed me how he touched her and asked my mom to leave the room while she whispered it into my ear |
| 02:35.05 | keldwud | I asked open ended questions |
| 02:35.12 | keldwud | here's the conversation |
| 02:35.13 | d3c4f | I can't encourage you enough to take it to the proper authorities and make sure this person is recorded / stopped if there is anything going on |
| 02:35.26 | TodPunk | I'm pretty sure you would ask things the right way, I'm just being thorough |
| 02:35.28 | keldwud | "How does daddy express his love to you?" |
| 02:35.28 | keldwud | With hugs and kisses! :) |
| 02:35.29 | keldwud | "How does.... nanna express her love to you?" |
| 02:35.29 | keldwud | With hugs and kisses! :) |
| 02:35.29 | keldwud | "How does... aunt ____ express her love to you?" |
| 02:35.29 | keldwud | With hugs!! :) |
| 02:35.31 | keldwud | "How does.... " |
| 02:35.33 | keldwud | Grandpa expresses his love to me with hugs and tickles! |
| 02:35.35 | keldwud | Uncle _____ expresses his love to me with hugs! |
| 02:35.37 | keldwud | ______ expresses her love to me by feeding me and putting me in front of the television! |
| 02:35.39 | keldwud | (by this point it is obvious she understands the exercise pretty well and quite clearly so I ask her the next question) |
| 02:35.44 | keldwud | "How does Master Ken express his love to you?" |
| 02:35.46 | keldwud | With hugs! <pause> (at this point she asks my mother to leave the room and says she is embarrassed to say and whispers in my ear) |
| 02:35.49 | keldwud | I have her demonstrate to me how he touches her and she said that she doesn't like it.' |
| 02:35.59 | keldwud | this guy is a retired police officer who worked with special crimes unit |
| 02:36.02 | keldwud | guess what the unit was |
| 02:36.06 | keldwud | child pornography |
| 02:36.12 | keldwud | so it requires some finesse |
| 02:36.24 | keldwud | I need to go about this without endangering my daughter |
| 02:36.33 | keldwud | I can't go pissing off the local police force |
| 02:36.44 | keldwud | because I rely on them to protect my daughter and not harass her when she takes the bus to school |
| 02:36.56 | TodPunk | yeah, you're going to have some luck with your political clout on this one /s |
| 02:37.17 | keldwud | cops stick together |
| 02:37.38 | keldwud | I definitely understand the "call the cops now" mentality |
| 02:37.51 | keldwud | and I'm not trying to minimize it in anyway, but things aren't so black and white |
| 02:37.56 | TodPunk | In all seriousness, the realities of dealing with it from a "justice" standpoint are going to end poorly, so I'm with you on the finess thing |
| 02:38.13 | keldwud | I'm a vulnerable class of person |
| 02:38.35 | keldwud | I have a record, and I also don't have other people that can protect me from the political system here if things go sour |
| 02:39.09 | keldwud | my daughter also has an estranged mother that is absolutely inappropriate as a parent but could use such a situation to leverage getting more time with my daughter |
| 02:39.32 | keldwud | calling the cops is the last thing I should do and definitely is not in the best interest of my daughter's future |
| 02:40.45 | keldwud | now if I were to be more "normalized" and lived according to the local culture, I would be more protected |
| 02:40.56 | keldwud | but I have a lifestyle that is outside of the norm here |
| 02:41.04 | keldwud | and that makes me more vulnerable and prone to victim blaming |
| 02:41.13 | keldwud | and opens me up to harassment |
| 02:41.50 | keldwud | I do want to talk to a professional, like an attorney or something. somebody who can help me navigate it without turning it into a circus sideshow |
| 02:42.06 | TodPunk | there's a lot of leverage in a lot of directions, that's for sure. I agree with your assessment. Are you going to pull her out of that class? |
| 02:42.28 | keldwud | I'm leaning towards yes |
| 02:42.46 | keldwud | I wish I *could* live in a black and white world, though |
| 02:42.51 | keldwud | but I don't |
| 02:43.12 | TodPunk | No kidding |
| 02:43.44 | TodPunk | There's a lot of people on twitter and tumblr that would as well, but for very different and often sporadically changing definitions of what black and white are |
| 02:44.09 | keldwud | if I had a wife and was part of the local religion and had a strong support network of friends and family and didn't smoke and drink and didn't have a record and had good credit and had strong interviewing skills, I would definitely be able to afford to be black and white about it |
| 02:44.36 | TodPunk | I still wouldn't recommend it in this case, but sure |
| 02:44.39 | keldwud | but I'm vulnerable financially because I came from a poor background and poor credit |
| 02:45.25 | keldwud | and my daughter is also vulnerable because if anything makes me look bad, she can end up being taken away from me |
| 02:45.36 | keldwud | and I wouldn't have any control over that |
| 02:45.52 | keldwud | because there are certain mechanisms in the state that take away a person's control over their own children |
| 02:46.01 | keldwud | it has happened to me once and I'm not about to let it happen again |
| 02:46.10 | TodPunk | You aren't exactly a strong position for controlling that, especially in Utah, yes |
| 02:46.15 | keldwud | when the state first took custody of my daughter from her mother, they would not give her to me |
| 02:46.39 | keldwud | they were within their legal rights to keep me and my daughter from being together even though there was nothing wrong with our relationship |
| 02:46.54 | TodPunk | I'm sure their alternative was not as impressive as their concerns about you |
| 02:46.56 | keldwud | so I am *very* vulnerable |
| 02:47.40 | keldwud | their only concern was that the mother (who got picked up for child neglect and child endangerment and while on copious amounts of opiates) said I was not appropriate |
| 02:47.44 | keldwud | that's all it took |
| 02:47.54 | keldwud | for my daughter to be in foster care for a whole year |
| 02:48.04 | TodPunk | That is all it takes, in fact, to raise an investigation |
| 02:48.15 | TodPunk | it shouldn't have taken that long, though |
| 02:48.28 | keldwud | it was the lady's first case |
| 02:48.30 | keldwud | she was a new case worker |
| 02:48.38 | keldwud | and she was trying to adopt her out to the foster parents |
| 02:48.44 | keldwud | so I was "getting in the way" of that process |
| 02:48.52 | keldwud | they were counting on me not being around or trying to be a parent |
| 02:49.01 | keldwud | because they had labeled me as a dad who abandoned his daughter |
| 02:49.06 | keldwud | because that's how mom framed it |
| 02:49.17 | keldwud | so it took me a year to "prove" myself |
| 02:49.28 | keldwud | I get heated now just thinking about it |
| 02:49.38 | TodPunk | You didn't have resources to NOT be that, legally indentifiably speaking |
| 02:50.01 | keldwud | exactly. if mom didn't want me around, I couldn't legally force myself around. |
| 02:50.05 | TodPunk | doesn't mean their investigation wasn't dumb |
| 02:50.29 | TodPunk | investigations that have already made their mind up are usually poorly done |
| 02:50.41 | keldwud | they even had me do drug tests at the insistence of the mother even after I had shown them a negative drug test and a psych eval from the department of health |
| 02:50.49 | keldwud | oh very poorly done |
| 02:50.57 | keldwud | they wouldn't accept any evidence from me showing that I was legit |
| 02:52.12 | TodPunk | I've worked with people before that won't accept doctor testimony against custody holder or even written testimony from the custody holder against themselves |
| 02:52.29 | keldwud | if I wasn't so vulnerable and the guy wasn't a retired police officer, I definitely would call the police sooner than later |
| 02:52.31 | TodPunk | family courts are messed up hell holes |
| 02:52.53 | keldwud | that's because family courts are all filled with people who believe in subjective reality over objective reality |
| 02:53.11 | keldwud | a lot of them base their decisions on religious doctorine |
| 02:53.16 | keldwud | instead of law |
| 02:53.24 | TodPunk | anyway, good on you for approaching it appropriately. Imma go back to reading |
| 02:53.38 | keldwud | thanks for chatting with me |
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| 03:22.37 | keldwud | welp. just lost a friend over this |
| 03:22.44 | keldwud | such a polarizing issue |
| 03:23.27 | keldwud | one of my friends on google is willing to sacrifice my daughter's mental well being and us being together just so he can satisfy his justice boner of calling the police |
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| 04:29.55 | RyanE | ultimately, you have to what you feel is best for your child. As you said, if you had more "clout" within the system, reporting the suspicions to the authorities would likely be a bit safer. |
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| 05:41.29 | keldwud | thank you for understanding. I know I'm not a minority or anything but there are times where minorities are victimized and calling the cops ends up making their lives hell instead of offering them relief |
| 05:42.00 | keldwud | and I could very well end up in a situation like that |
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| 12:12.16 | rit | Hi |
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| 22:52.33 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds |
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