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| 01:08.27 | Nickalas | Yo yo yo |
| 01:26.49 | shalkie | Yo OS? |
| 02:01.09 | Nickalas | OS? |
| 02:02.23 | Enemby | YO |
| 02:09.13 | Nickalas | What's up |
| 02:25.18 | goozbach | oy! |
| 02:30.00 | Nickalas | Lol |
| 02:50.16 | shalkie | Vay! |
| 02:53.29 | Nickalas | Peo0le |
| 02:55.58 | shalkie | Ah, placing the treat on the dogs hindquarters was much shorter lived fun then I was hoping for. |
| 02:56.00 | shalkie | :( |
| 02:56.15 | shalkie | s/hoping/hopeing/ |
| 03:02.18 | Nickalas | What |
| 03:02.20 | Nickalas | Lol |
| 03:03.21 | shalkie | I just wanted teo see how long it would take for him to knock it off. He sat down, verys hort lived. |
| 03:03.28 | shalkie | s/s h/ sh/ |
| 03:12.33 | Nickalas | Oh |
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| 03:21.02 | shalkie | Yeah this channel isn't very interesting in the evenings. |
| 03:26.18 | Nickalas | When is it usually active |
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| 03:30.58 | goozbach | borning! |
| 03:34.36 | Nickalas | Lol |
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| 05:07.04 | Nickalas | And nobody's here still |
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| 11:45.05 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds |
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| 13:21.44 | eightyeight | http://officialandroid.blogspot.com/2015/10/get-ready-for-sweet-taste-of-android-60.html?m=1 |
| 13:23.22 | eightyeight | bluehost uses MD5 for password storage: https://twitter.com/bluehostsupport/status/650934032797147136 |
| 13:23.24 | eightyeight | :( |
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| 15:32.43 | Tod-Work | eightyeight, to be fair, I don't know of a site builder tool that has security understanding, and I don't think many are going to build something high-risk with such tools. Thought that day is probably coming if it hasn't already and I just missed out. |
| 15:33.36 | eightyeight | well, i can understand what you're saying, if you're referring to not baking security into the frontend tool |
| 15:33.50 | eightyeight | but on the backend, this is well understood |
| 15:35.02 | eightyeight | i mean, bcrypt has been out since 1999 |
| 15:35.22 | eightyeight | so, give it 5 years, before it's well analyzed and studied. that's 2004. |
| 15:35.36 | eightyeight | give it a couple more for it to be "best practice"? so, 2006? a decade ago? |
| 15:43.45 | Tod-Work | no no, I know what you mean, I'm just saying if you look broader it's not a COMMON practice despite being best, and ultimately while it might be "best practice" to put a deadbolt on doors, I don't even close my shed most of the time, so maybe this could be improved but it isn't the heinous crime those twits are making it out to be |
| 15:44.20 | eightyeight | ah. fair. |
| 15:44.33 | eightyeight | well, it's never too late to migrate |
| 15:44.43 | Tod-Work | I don't use a shared host for this reason |
| 15:44.58 | Tod-Work | I also don't work with PHP programmers for this reason |
| 15:45.03 | eightyeight | ++ |
| 15:45.14 | eightyeight | although, PHPass solved this issue a long time ago |
| 15:45.37 | Tod-Work | yes |
| 15:45.47 | Tod-Work | It's not a problem with PHP, it's a problem with the community |
| 15:46.01 | Tod-Work | glares at php.net commenters |
| 15:46.10 | eightyeight | agreed |
| 15:46.17 | eightyeight | well, to some extent |
| 15:46.44 | eightyeight | the fact that earlier PHP allows '"hello"["world"]' ... |
| 15:46.55 | Tod-Work | I've known a few good programmers who work in PHP, mind you, but they also recognize the tool for what it is rather than some godsend easy magic want |
| 15:46.57 | Tod-Work | *wand |
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| 15:47.57 | Tod-Work | hehe, until later in the 5.x series, there was different truth evaluation based on whether you had the opening curly brace after an "if" statement on a newline or the same line |
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| 15:55.08 | Tod-Work | eightyeight, I'd like some sort of rework of federate online communications that includes authentication and secure messaging right in the protocol. You should get on that. Email, but not built on 60 years ago stuff, and including VoIP, IM and IRC style communications too. Go! |
| 15:55.53 | eightyeight | all in one tool? |
| 15:56.40 | Tod-Work | Separate protocols, all manage the same way, with one ID |
| 15:56.52 | Tod-Work | sort of a more practical approach to the whole "unified communications" nonsense |
| 15:57.06 | eightyeight | because there is Tox and Bitmessage |
| 15:57.09 | eightyeight | although, both suck |
| 15:57.15 | Tod-Work | yeah, I was gonna say |
| 15:58.23 | Tod-Work | I want to put one box, maybe even a raspberry pi, on a network or pay some company (maybe in ad revenue like gmail and hotmail did for email) to handle it, and I can use whatever client/interface I want with the thing |
| 15:58.40 | Tod-Work | If Phone Janitor does well I AM going to make this thing |
| 15:58.47 | eightyeight | heh |
| 15:58.51 | eightyeight | do eet |
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| 16:16.42 | shalkie | So... A friend of mine got one of the C.H.I.P. systems delivered to him. |
| 16:16.45 | shalkie | I kinda want one. |
| 16:22.16 | jalbretsen | Tod-Work: Is this the point where someone should make a joke about systemd? |
| 16:23.00 | Tod-Work | there are no jokes about systemd, only quiet disillusionments |
| 16:24.41 | eightyeight | and amazing boot times, simple config, robust tools, and cgroup management |
| 16:24.52 | Tod-Work | so question, why are arcrw and arcsr both coming from the same utah comcast IP and the same user? They don't appear to be different PEOPLE, could they not just use one connection? Or maybe they're bots for controlling different machines from IRC? |
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| 17:16.39 | shalkie | Wow, bluehost has taken a lot of dog piling over the md5 hashing and last 4 characters used as a pin. |
| 17:17.03 | shalkie | To be fair though I refused to setup a password with delta for a long time for the exact same reason. |
| 17:17.16 | shalkie | Seems Delta got their act together though. |
| 17:24.08 | programmerq | shalkie: they used to store the entire password in clear, and display it to agents when they pulled up the account. |
| 17:29.28 | Tod-Work | One time when I worked for Certiport the users had free form security questions, and we had to read them verbatim back to the user to verify their account. One guy's was "how big is your penis" and his answer was 8 inches but he told me it wasn't true, to which I replied I really really did not want to know |
| 17:33.13 | unum | any recommendations on a software project management book |
| 17:46.38 | joshh | please don't become a pm or something |
| 17:55.49 | unum | I'm trying to make an existing member of management become a pm |
| 17:56.15 | unum | we're a small company and generally projects are worked on by individual developers |
| 17:57.15 | unum | no methodolgy, no code review, no test, no revision control, no timeline, random review by business |
| 17:57.41 | unum | the revision control thing changed when I started |
| 17:57.56 | unum | tests are being added now |
| 17:59.20 | joshh | i see |
| 17:59.29 | joshh | just tell him not to go too crazy with the emails and meetings and he'll be fine |
| 18:00.03 | unum | that's an unlikely issue in this company |
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| 18:09.14 | Tod-Work | *cough* http://www.meetup.com/Lehi-Developers-User-Group/events/225306293/ |
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| 18:22.27 | bregalad | 'what's ldug'? |
| 18:24.15 | eightyeight | a disease |
| 18:26.41 | unum | bregalad: it's right in the url |
| 18:26.59 | programmerq | light duty utility gloves |
| 18:28.13 | eightyeight | lame duck utah gop |
| 18:28.40 | programmerq | https://www.flickr.com/photos/peosoldier/4997102906 |
| 18:28.44 | programmerq | LDUG ^^ |
| 18:29.30 | unum | eightyeight: nice |
| 18:29.53 | programmerq | using another acronym in your backronym is cheating. |
| 18:29.55 | programmerq | pouts |
| 18:30.13 | bregalad | eightyeight: you wish |
| 18:30.41 | bregalad | so it's a support group for all the people who have to live in Lehi? |
| 18:31.07 | Tod-Work | I like Lehi |
| 18:31.13 | Tod-Work | I'm planning on living there soon |
| 18:31.23 | Tod-Work | assuming my house will just get sold already |
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| 18:43.59 | shalkie | Holy crap I was right. |
| 18:44.12 | shalkie | telco has to fix the phone line within 48 hrs. |
| 18:44.32 | shalkie | ldug is the lehi developers user group I belive. |
| 18:44.38 | shalkie | s/belive/believe/ |
| 18:55.42 | shalkie | So now I get to file an official complaint withthe PUC and Century Link then has 5 days to respond. |
| 18:55.50 | shalkie | And still my repairs are schedule for Sat. |
| 18:56.15 | shalkie | -_- |
| 18:56.20 | shalkie | But I guess progress. |
| 18:56.53 | shalkie | I always thought the PUC had to be good for something other then taking payments from telcos. |
| 19:03.57 | bregalad | google fiber has already been installed along the two streets by my house |
| 19:04.07 | bregalad | signs up for google fiber notifications |
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| 19:18.55 | shalkie | bregalad: I have talked to several people in kansas (in person) and there were a couple that missed the sign up window for their "fiberhood" and had to wait like six months for them to come back around. |
| 19:19.10 | shalkie | So I hope you sign up in time. ;) |
| 19:25.44 | shalkie | Cause I loves me some Fiber. :) |
| 19:25.51 | shalkie | mmm... Fiber.... |
| 19:25.56 | shalkie | :) |
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| 19:48.48 | jlp_znc | oh python, why do you let me down so... all I ask for is a ?: operator. |
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| 19:52.18 | bregalad | jlp_znc: var1 = 'a' if var2 else 'b' |
| 19:53.45 | Tod-Work | jlp_znc, you don't want a ternary anyway, they're dangerous |
| 19:54.05 | Tod-Work | but bregalad has you covered if you want to shoot yourself in the foot just the same (sometimes I do it just to feel alive) |
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| 20:03.12 | romanovic | i think the ternary operator is beautiful, especially when you are trying to be more declarative than imperative |
| 20:03.22 | romanovic | assuming you are not making an ugly nest of them. |
| 20:03.47 | bregalad | a dragon's nest or a canary's nest? |
| 20:04.42 | romanovic | it's like saying "assign a value, which may be different based on this condition" instead of "here's a condition, perform one assignment step if true or a different step if false" |
| 20:05.07 | Enemby | oh dear |
| 20:05.15 | Enemby | I had never heard of that operator before |
| 20:05.16 | jlp_znc | I decided to just put an if else block earlier and set a local variable that I could use later. |
| 20:06.11 | jlp_znc | I personally agree with romanovic. I would use it where it makes sense. |
| 20:06.39 | bregalad | what other things could it make? |
| 20:14.12 | jalbretsen | as I recall, the ternary is optimized in python and will run faster than a C-like if-else block. |
| 20:14.20 | Tod-Work | It's most often used in peasant spaghetti recipes |
| 20:17.12 | romanovic | Tod-Work: I remember that being the case when learning c++ in high school. "I can cram all of this code on one line with the ternary operator..." |
| 20:18.02 | romanovic | "i'm so clever" |
| 20:18.19 | Tod-Work | It's like a goto, it's a valid tool that gets abused more than properly utilized. That said, it DOES have its place, but if you don't know it, don't use it until you do =cP |
| 20:21.12 | romanovic | Tod-Work: I use it precisely because it is an improvement over if/else for value assignments, in the same way functions are an improvement to goto |
| 20:21.43 | Tod-Work | I'd say they CAN be, not simply are |
| 20:21.44 | romanovic | i'm mostly in javascript these days though, so I don't see how other languages abuse it. |
| 20:21.52 | Tod-Work | improvement over simple assignments probably |
| 20:22.49 | romanovic | if i were to see an if/else in a code review with a single assignment operation in both blocks, i'd send it back |
| 20:22.59 | Tod-Work | How pedantic of you |
| 20:23.06 | Tod-Work | (unless that's in your style guide or something) |
| 20:30.20 | romanovic | Tod-Work: it's not about pedantry. 10 years ago when we were writing imperative JS, it would have gone unnoticed. now we write declarative components, so unnecessary blocks of imperative code tend to go against the grain |
| 20:30.40 | romanovic | to include control flow statements for making a simple assignment |
| 20:31.42 | Tod-Work | Logically speaking, they are equivalent. To say one is superior to the other is simple opinion. To say one is optimal is tech stack specific (and in JS it is undeterministic, especially beyond Right Now(tm)) |
| 20:31.56 | romanovic | when I say "we" i just mean where I work, not implying that other shops don't still write great imperative JS |
| 20:32.48 | Tod-Work | and again, if it's in your style guide, I totally support this. If it's not, it's still pedantry. you're just enforcing your opinion on someone else's code for no measurable reason. If that suits you, ok, cool |
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| 20:51.31 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds |
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| 20:54.06 | romanovic | Tod-Work: you do have a point, because it's not in our coding standards, so I'd hate for anyone to think i'm just being dogmatic about it. But, using a full if/else in some places is a code smell our team recognises, even if not documented |
| 20:54.51 | romanovic | so we might be asked to justify its use, just for readability purposes, if not performance |
| 20:55.44 | Tod-Work | my point is you're being dogmatic about it on a code review by "sending it back" because you have no measure beyond your dogma |
| 20:55.53 | romanovic | k |
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| 20:56.22 | bregalad | you need to be more catmatic |
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| 20:56.46 | Tod-Work | dragonmatic is more geeky |
| 20:57.57 | Tod-Work | romanovic, I want to stress here that your opinion is totally fine, I'm merely recognizing that another's opinion opposite yours is equally fine. You can happily carry on with your own in good faith |
| 20:59.28 | romanovic | I didn't mean to imply otherwise. And we will carry on with our own dog/catma |
| 20:59.34 | Tod-Work | aye |
| 21:00.05 | romanovic | dragonma |
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| 21:02.49 | keldwud | I'm not sure if I'm just getting crazy or creative. I'm making yellow curry and decided to add cinnamon, sambuca and a couple squares of super dark chocolate... |
| 21:03.21 | keldwud | I wanted something 'fennel-y' tasting and I figured sambuca would do the job. |
| 21:05.20 | keldwud | although I probably should have used one square instead of two. now it's brown instead of yellow |
| 21:11.04 | Tod-Work | shalkie, I don't mean $9k, but much cheaper than their current offerings |
| 21:11.09 | romanovic | keldwud: chocolate in curry sounds interesting, is it something you've tried before? |
| 21:11.18 | keldwud | romanovic, nope |
| 21:11.30 | keldwud | but I tasted it and it tastes pretty damn good so far |
| 21:11.39 | jalbretsen | and I think I am about to swear off recruiters. They can't stop hounding me when there is something, but if nothing comes from an interview, I rarely hear "sorry, they took a different direction" All I get is crickets. And after all their hounding, when I reach out to them looking for opportunities or an update..... crickets. |
| 21:11.41 | keldwud | the turmeric and the cumin and the cocoa compliment each other |
| 21:12.10 | keldwud | I used 78% dark chocolate |
| 21:12.37 | keldwud | mind you, this is one square for a HUGE batch. a little bit goes a long way. If I had straight cocoa powder, I might have used that instead. |
| 21:13.12 | bregalad | jalbretsen: recruiters aren't your agent(s), they only see you as potential commission. Once that commission doesn't materialize, they don't care about you amymore |
| 21:13.23 | Tod-Work | jalbretsen, I wouldn't hold them to too high a standard. Average recruiter income is like $30k/yr You're not going to get a whole lot of professionalism at that low a bracket |
| 21:13.41 | Tod-Work | And the reward FOR professionalism means making less |
| 21:13.43 | jlp_znc | remember, when it comes to recruiters, you are the product, not the customer. |
| 21:14.04 | Tod-Work | I'd pay 10% of my salary if they could improve it %25 |
| 21:14.09 | jalbretsen | ya, I've been thinking similar things. The moment I no longer represent $$$, I am a waste of their time |
| 21:16.57 | jlp_znc | that's why they hate to tell you the company name. they don't want you to contact them directly. |
| 21:17.21 | jlp_znc | whenever a recruiter e-mails me out of the blue I always respond back with "what company is this for?" |
| 21:17.32 | keldwud | Tod-Work, that's what I've been doing. I've been dropping about 10% of my salary into training programs |
| 21:17.37 | keldwud | and conferences |
| 21:17.40 | jlp_znc | I often get some crap like "we need to pre-screen you for interest before we reveal that" |
| 21:18.08 | jlp_znc | to which I respond something like "well, there are certain companies I will not work for, and since you won't tell me who you are representing, you must be working for one of them. see ya." |
| 21:18.33 | jalbretsen | I've seen some that will tell me, others that give dumb "we need to see if you are good candidate first" |
| 21:19.18 | keldwud | romanovic, if you're in Utah county, I can put a few servings into a tupperware for you and you could see how the chocolate worked out. |
| 21:19.23 | jalbretsen | jlp_znc: I said that once, and the response was "tell me who you would not work for" |
| 21:19.25 | Tod-Work | keldwud, That's probably more valuable in IT fields than pure dev stuff, but I agree with the sentiment at the very least |
| 21:20.03 | Tod-Work | Personally I refuse to hire through a recruiter. I will work WITH the right recruiters. |
| 21:20.20 | Tod-Work | I don't mind being a product in the right circumstance. I'm a good product. |
| 21:20.32 | Tod-Work | Those two statements are not entirely related. |
| 21:21.36 | keldwud | I also used almond milk and coconut oil and wine and chicken stock. I really wonder if I know what I'm doing sometimes. |
| 21:24.04 | romanovic | keldwud: i'd consider taking you up on that... up in SL county though. I'll be interested to hear how you like the result though |
| 21:24.37 | romanovic | I googled chocolate curry and was surprised to see a couple recipes. Also, apparently you can buy curry flavored chocolate bars! |
| 21:25.11 | romanovic | which kind of sounds good, because I've tried chili chocolate bars before, and the spice really brings out the chocolate flavor |
| 21:25.21 | keldwud | yeah I really wish I could spice it up some |
| 21:25.26 | romanovic | it's like a chocolate amplifier |
| 21:25.34 | keldwud | but my 7 year old might not appreciate it |
| 21:25.39 | keldwud | I have to spice after the fact :( |
| 21:26.04 | keldwud | it will be interesting, though. I think the sweet potatoes made me lean towards adding chocolate. that and since I already added sambuca I figured why the heck not |
| 21:26.34 | keldwud | sweet potatoes, red potatoes, broccoli, snap peas, red bell peppers, dark mushrooms |
| 21:27.10 | keldwud | of course I started with a bunch of onion and garlic and turmeric and oil in the beginning |
| 21:34.32 | keldwud | omg I FORGOT THE CHICKEN |
| 21:34.56 | keldwud | now everything else will overcook. gonna have to cook it separate. darn it. |
| 21:35.10 | RyanE | might be good enough veg |
| 21:35.14 | RyanE | sounds tasty |
| 21:35.45 | keldwud | yeah, it will be fine without it, but I already started defrosting the chicken in the fridge a few days ago |
| 21:35.51 | keldwud | so it needs to be cooked one way or another |
| 21:36.07 | keldwud | there's enough protein from the veggies I put in it |
| 21:37.39 | keldwud | hopefully enough carbs for my daughter. kids need a lot of carbs |
| 21:38.01 | keldwud | makes it hard for me to plan meals because I want to lose weight and need fewer carbs but she needs twice as many carbs as I do |
| 21:52.21 | keldwud | :( I put the broccoli in too soon. it is soggy |
| 21:53.11 | keldwud | the mushrooms are perfect, tho |
| 21:53.52 | keldwud | the sweet potato tastes BOMB with the chocolate and curry flavors. |
| 22:01.02 | *** join/#utah wargasm (~wargasm@69.169.178.194) |
| 22:06.16 | unum | wow, that's got to be several millions dollars worth of hardware, that just got listed on plug |
| 22:07.48 | programmerq | yes indeed. |
| 22:08.01 | RyanE | yeah, and getting less valuable every day. |
| 22:08.18 | programmerq | I wouldn't mind having a couple extra 24 port gigabit switches. |
| 22:08.18 | RyanE | I'd imagine depreciation on any Bitcoin hardware is absolutely *brutal* |
| 22:08.30 | programmerq | you just never know when you might need one of those. |
| 22:08.31 | RyanE | yeah, switches and racks look nice. |
| 22:09.20 | programmerq | looks like used, on ebay, the JGS524Ev2 will go for anywhere between $30 and $60 |
| 22:13.48 | Tod-Work | How much would a rack be? |
| 22:16.18 | joshh | probably not a lot |
| 22:16.29 | joshh | i'd be surprised if they turned down 100 for it if they have that many taking up space |
| 22:17.09 | unum | racks they could sell to customers. what do you do with all those bit coin machines |
| 22:17.19 | unum | I guess find other people who want to mine bit coins |
| 22:17.29 | joshh | weird that they have racks on casters in a dc though |
| 22:18.26 | RyanE | probably so they could play rack tetris |
| 22:19.03 | joshh | bitcoiners probably just got cheap crappy ones, same as the awful netgear switches |
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| 22:30.11 | jlp_znc | is this plug posting available online via the http's? I'm not on the plug mailing list. |
| 22:30.19 | shalkie | http://plug.org/pipermail/plug/2015-October/033992.html |
| 22:31.11 | jlp_znc | thanks, shalkie |
| 22:31.45 | jlp_znc | holy crap, 120 racks!? |
| 22:32.02 | *** join/#utah wargasm (~wargasm@69.169.178.194) |
| 22:32.51 | RyanE | yeah, lots of racks. |
| 22:47.11 | programmerq | I should at least ask about some of those gigabit switches. |
| 22:47.30 | programmerq | hosted a LAN party, and having a couple of those would be really nice. |
| 22:53.47 | magmu | Ooo...them switches. |
| 22:55.17 | unum | is 120 racks enough for 2000 of those units, seems like they may have already sold some racks |
| 22:56.35 | unum | it's 4u |
| 22:56.44 | unum | so that would be 12 |
| 22:57.02 | unum | 12*120 |
| 22:57.31 | unum | either some of those were stack on the floor or they already sold a bunch racks |
| 22:59.26 | Tod-Work | Probably already sold a bunch of racks |
| 22:59.39 | Tod-Work | this is definitely AFTER some initial effort at offloading them |
| 23:00.56 | unum | probably about 50 racks and 25 switches |
| 23:04.24 | shalkie | New telco regulation fact: |
| 23:04.39 | shalkie | If you have just a phone line from CLink it is regulated. |
| 23:04.59 | shalkie | Bundle it with _anything_ (TV/Wireless/Internet) and it becomes deregulated. |
| 23:14.36 | spangborn | Interesting. |
| 23:14.43 | spangborn | What about just an internet connection via DSL? |
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| 23:20.03 | shalkie | Yep. |
| 23:20.29 | shalkie | So this is for a phone line at my mothers and it is a phone line w/ DSL and Xmission. |
| 23:21.23 | shalkie | Why a phone line on its own is regulated and bundleing deregulates is a total mystery to me. |
| 23:29.56 | shalkie | So yeah, spangborn just having the DSL service with it deregulated it. |
| 23:52.40 | keldwud | is that sale only for the whole lot or can we buy pieces? |
| 23:52.45 | keldwud | I need a switch at home |