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| 15:08.16 | Jayce^ | goozbach: should I paste errors in here then? :) |
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| 16:47.29 | jlp_znc | so, I've been getting these job postings from jobs.utah.gov... they are supposed to match my interests, skills, and abilities. |
| 16:48.07 | jlp_znc | today, I got three: Systems Administrator (good), Dietary Aide (what?), and Development & Communications Specialist (again, what?). |
| 16:48.32 | jlp_znc | I'm curious what "matching" technology they are using. anyone here work for DWS? |
| 16:48.48 | joshh | i don't even want to know |
| 16:48.51 | jlp_znc | know anyone who works at DWS? |
| 16:49.03 | joshh | but i wish that other people better than me could step up and be good public servants |
| 16:53.38 | romanovic | jlp_znc: maybe they're searching job titles for you by regex. "^.*A?d?m?i?n?i?s?t?r?a?t?o?r?.*$" |
| 16:53.48 | romanovic | that should capture your admin jobs |
| 16:56.03 | joshh | the last one almost seems like it could be a government term for "devops" or something, though im sure that's not it |
| 16:56.48 | bregalad | joshh: why not just accept what the world offers you and try something new :) |
| 16:57.08 | bregalad | who wants to be sedated in front of a computer the rest of their life? |
| 16:57.13 | bregalad | that's not even doing anything |
| 16:57.20 | joshh | i don't do well in places with nonsensical rules and clueless people in charge |
| 16:57.58 | joshh | i love trying new things |
| 16:58.14 | joshh | but government work isn't on my bucket list |
| 16:59.07 | bregalad | maybe it's on your pail list |
| 17:00.08 | romanovic | joshh: but you wouldn't need to worry about promotions and your merit to receive them! |
| 17:00.57 | romanovic | just don't quit, and eventually you will have seniority and can be promoted. |
| 17:00.58 | fozzmoo | https://www.reddit.com/r/SaltLakeCity/comments/3keevo/the_dÅterra_people_are_evil/ |
| 17:01.40 | joshh | well |
| 17:01.49 | bregalad | do I even need to see a reddit to know something like that? |
| 17:01.58 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 17:02.07 | joshh | i've always thought when im ready to just be old and tired i can get a relaxing job at as a university sysadmin or something |
| 17:02.17 | joshh | and just grow a ponytail until i retire |
| 17:02.29 | joshh | that's kinda government work but on the better end |
| 17:05.20 | Jayce^ | "smelled like purple" is one of the best comments on that one |
| 17:05.27 | fozzmoo | :)) |
| 17:06.10 | fozzmoo | The synethesia is great with this crowd. |
| 17:07.03 | joshh | is that some new perfume MLM thing or something? |
| 17:07.25 | Jayce^ | it's the big essential oil company |
| 17:07.42 | bregalad | I prefer inessential oils |
| 17:08.03 | fozzmoo | I use synthetic myself. |
| 17:08.20 | Jayce^ | peanut oil, higher smoke point |
| 17:08.52 | Jayce^ | in all actuality, I've been using a lot more avocado oil for the last while, really like that stuff |
| 17:09.13 | joshh | https://twitter.com/APZonerunner/status/641665840803352576/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw |
| 17:09.39 | shalkie | I have started using EVOO in place of butter and other oils. Generally works really well. |
| 17:10.18 | shalkie | It appears that if you live in Syria life is going to get a lot more entertaining. |
| 17:10.35 | Jayce^ | and you should learn russian... |
| 17:11.09 | shalkie | Indeed. |
| 17:11.18 | joshh | man donald just won't stop |
| 17:11.29 | joshh | Donald Trump said Thursday that when he suggested Carly Fiorina's face would make her unelectable, he wasn't talking about her looks. |
| 17:11.32 | joshh | "I'm not talking about looks. I'm talking about persona," Trump told CNN's Chris Cuomo on "New Day." |
| 17:11.41 | Jayce^ | fozzmoo: you should post the lt gov's respons about that quote |
| 17:11.47 | joshh | "Look at that face!" Trump told the magazine while sitting with a Rolling Stone reporter as Fiorina appeared on TV. "Would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president." |
| 17:11.50 | shalkie | So you can say things like " I think Vlad looks incredibly manly shirtless on a horse while impregnating women from a glance..." |
| 17:12.24 | joshh | this is definitely the most comedic presidential election in our history |
| 17:13.16 | shalkie | joshh, what an idea! Part of Comedians! I could see a Stuart / Black ticket. :) |
| 17:13.49 | shalkie | s/Part/Party |
| 17:13.49 | joshh | stewart/colbert on a ticket would win in a landslide |
| 17:14.20 | shalkie | Blah, wrong spelling. Time to get back to the distraction that is work. |
| 17:14.58 | fozzmoo | As Jayce^ requested: Spencer J. Cox As I mentioned last night, the entire Trump campaign reminds me of the classic Seinfeld episode where George actually tries unsuccessfully to get fired. Like Costanza, I now fully expect this statement to somehow increase Trump's lead in the polls. |
| 17:15.40 | joshh | that's pretty good |
| 17:20.53 | fozzmoo | Cox is a witty guy. |
| 17:27.00 | joshh | he'd probably make a decent president |
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| 17:30.43 | jalbretsen | shalkie: I could handle sjansen as president, so I'm going to stay with your original spelling |
| 17:32.44 | bregalad | I could probably handle several million people being president, unfortunately none of them are running |
| 17:32.52 | bregalad | or rather, getting attention |
| 17:33.16 | jalbretsen | just as long as they run under the GOP, they are lacking candidates right now |
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| 17:38.30 | jlp_znc | shrugs |
| 17:38.58 | jlp_znc | I would think Carly's history at HP would automatically excuse her from being considered for the presidency. |
| 17:39.25 | jlp_znc | at least, among anyone who work(s/ed) at HP |
| 17:39.33 | joshh | there are only like 3 things that can disqualify someone in the gop |
| 17:39.42 | jlp_znc | being gay |
| 17:39.49 | joshh | none of them to do with intelligence or business track record |
| 17:39.52 | jlp_znc | being trans |
| 17:39.59 | jlp_znc | what's the third? being poor? |
| 17:40.38 | joshh | i was thinking supporting/having abortion |
| 17:41.00 | joshh | honestly even being gay might not mean an immediate dismissal these days, at the national level |
| 17:41.06 | joshh | trans probably wouldn't fly though |
| 17:41.19 | joshh | if bruce jenner joins the race now, it would be perfect |
| 17:42.01 | RyanE | there is no "bruce jenner" anymore. |
| 17:42.15 | joshh | right, caitlin |
| 17:42.58 | jlp_znc | Caitlyn |
| 17:43.01 | Jayce^ | only zuul |
| 17:43.31 | joshh | heh |
| 17:44.31 | RyanE | I am the keymaster |
| 17:44.53 | jlp_znc | you look nothing like Rick Moranis |
| 17:45.11 | RyanE | I'm wearing glasses now. |
| 17:45.34 | jlp_znc | not enough |
| 17:45.38 | RyanE | and you look nothing like Sigourney |
| 17:45.57 | jlp_znc | that is certainly true. she's skinney |
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| 17:50.28 | jalbretsen | oh I love the cultural reference joke that change the topic |
| 17:50.44 | jalbretsen | *jokes |
| 17:52.10 | jlp_znc | we are happy to have provided you with some level of enjoyment today. |
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| 18:12.04 | jlp_znc | gah, just got some more jobs from jobs.utah.gov... "Chemist II". I last took chemistry as a junior in high school... in 1980. "Swim Coach, Youth" (I do not know how to swim, but I guess that wouldn't stop me from coaching, eh?). |
| 18:12.34 | bregalad | jlp_znc: they may make a movie about you after all |
| 18:12.46 | shalkie | jlp_znc: A can of hair spray and a lighter and they will probably jump into the water fast enough. |
| 18:12.58 | jlp_znc | chuckles |
| 18:16.28 | jlp_znc | anyone interested in a "Principal Systems Engineer" contract (six months) job in SLC? I can put you in touch with a recruiter. No, I don't know what the company is. They want someone with Linux, Perl, PL/SQL, and shell scripting. |
| 18:18.51 | RyanE | finally, a reason for learning Morse Code: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/09/cheating_news_f.html |
| 18:19.09 | jlp_znc | you need a reason to learn Morse code? |
| 18:19.25 | RyanE | apparently so. With no motivation, I've avoided it thus far. |
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| 18:32.17 | jalbretsen | I had the feeling on Monday that the recruiter that called me was just reading job openings off of LinkedIn or something and had no real relationship with some of the companies he was talking about. |
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| 18:37.07 | harleypig | if I delete all *.py{c,o} files in /usr/lib/python2.7 will that cause problems? or will they just be regenerated? |
| 18:42.05 | goozbach | what does the google say? |
| 18:42.41 | bregalad | that should be fine, I think |
| 18:42.43 | joshh | yes it should be safe |
| 18:42.47 | goozbach | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8822335/what-does-python-file-extensions-pyc-pyd-pyo-stand-for |
| 18:42.50 | joshh | in almost all cases |
| 18:43.19 | joshh | why do you want to though, from there |
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| 18:58.56 | harleypig | I'm trying to get a program called bugwarrior to download issues for me and it's telling me that ssl cert has failed, even though I've added and updated my tls-ca-bundle.pem file. I'm wondering if something is stuck somewhere. |
| 19:00.55 | shalkie | Well it makes sense jalbretsen, cause if your intersted then he can callthem and be all " I have people that are interested... Here are my terms." |
| 19:01.16 | shalkie | But still recruiter ewwwww.... |
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| 19:21.21 | jima | jalbretsen: i have this notion that there's some kind of brokerage for recruiters...i've gotten hit up by 6 recruiters from 5 different agencies over 1-2 openings with one company. |
| 19:34.48 | jlp_znc | that's... annoying. |
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| 19:35.08 | jlp_znc | especially if it's a company like NuSkin. |
| 19:35.43 | jima | a "financial services" company |
| 19:36.07 | jima | some of them said the name, others didn't...didn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out they were all talking about the same org |
| 19:40.44 | bregalad | jima: you mean when the untitled job adverts are identical down to the unrequited enthusiasm for ninjarockstars and malapropos technojargon? |
| 19:41.25 | RyanE | They usually give enough details that a cut&paste into Google will tell you what job they're selling. |
| 19:41.26 | jalbretsen | I won't deal with the "I am not allowed to tell you who it is until I can determine you are a good candidate" BS |
| 19:41.42 | RyanE | yeah, ridiculous. |
| 19:41.48 | jalbretsen | I tell them I can't determine if I am even interested unless you tell me who it is |
| 19:41.53 | jalbretsen | eyes NavTrust |
| 19:41.53 | jima | bregalad: not just those (although i've seen hilarious examples like that) |
| 19:50.25 | unum | when ever they say cottonwood I know exactly where they are talking about |
| 19:53.24 | jlp_znc | I always say "what company is this for?" when they balk, I respond with "Well, there are some companies that I just won't work for no matter what the job or compensation." |
| 19:53.47 | jlp_znc | they hate it when you say "what is the target salary range for this position?", too |
| 19:54.13 | jlp_znc | and when they say "what are you at now?" I tell them "what difference does that make?" |
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| 20:12.21 | RyanE | "one meeeeeeeeelioooon dollars" |
| 20:14.49 | shalkie | Don't forget to ask if it is contract to hire or not. |
| 20:15.11 | programmerq | jlp_znc: the strategy that I have had some success with is to not talk about salary until an offer is on the table, and then say "I make $x, and I will consider any good offer" |
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| 20:26.17 | jalbretsen | I have a couple of recruiters that know me well enough to not suggest Overstock to me anymore. |
| 20:26.31 | jalbretsen | I've had way too many friends been burned by them |
| 20:26.42 | jalbretsen | *be |
| 20:26.45 | programmerq | overstock was on my radar last time I was looking for a job. |
| 20:27.05 | programmerq | I interviewed. it seemed like it was an environment similar to what I was in while I was at HP. |
| 20:27.19 | shalkie | was that good or bad? |
| 20:27.22 | programmerq | both. |
| 20:27.55 | programmerq | some of the problems they were likely to have would have been a drag to deal with, but I already knew how to work with/around them. |
| 20:27.59 | programmerq | mostly big company type stuff |
| 20:28.24 | programmerq | their toolset and direction was pretty close to what I had experienced as well. |
| 20:28.31 | shalkie | there are things I miss about big companies. |
| 20:28.42 | programmerq | oh? |
| 20:29.09 | shalkie | I remember it being easier to schedule time off. |
| 20:30.01 | programmerq | my company (still <200) makes it pretty easy. we've built out our teams such that we can pretty much go on vacation, just not all at the same time. |
| 20:30.14 | programmerq | there hasn't ever been a time that someone didn't get time off due to coverage. |
| 20:31.07 | programmerq | not to my knowledge anyway |
| 20:31.17 | programmerq | (maybe it's different on other teams) |
| 20:31.19 | shalkie | Yeah, I miss that. |
| 20:31.46 | programmerq | we also contract with trinet, which gives us an HR portal and benefits that feels like a big company. |
| 20:31.55 | programmerq | but works in chrome/firefox |
| 20:32.06 | shalkie | But on the other hand it is a small enough company that everyone actually knows each other and you can press the "management" on issues. |
| 20:32.16 | programmerq | shalkie: how many in your company? |
| 20:32.24 | shalkie | less then twenty |
| 20:32.37 | shalkie | Small. ;) |
| 20:32.42 | programmerq | indeed |
| 20:32.50 | programmerq | we're rapidly growing. |
| 20:33.08 | programmerq | I haven't even been here a year. I was like #74, now there are like 180. |
| 20:33.32 | jalbretsen | may we ask where this is at? |
| 20:33.42 | programmerq | oh, I work for Docker. |
| 20:33.52 | jalbretsen | coolness |
| 20:33.55 | programmerq | indeed. |
| 20:34.27 | shalkie | Are they out of Portland or SF? |
| 20:34.58 | shalkie | Also I can give a good recommendation for jalbretsen if you want to hire him. :D |
| 20:35.58 | programmerq | shalkie: SF |
| 20:36.46 | shalkie | Nice. I guess you didn't have to go all hipster and starting learning about hand roasted coffee while watching portlandia. |
| 20:36.50 | shalkie | ;) |
| 20:37.11 | programmerq | I have at least one coworker in portland |
| 20:37.18 | programmerq | and SF has plenty of hipsters to spare. |
| 20:37.42 | programmerq | My hair is long enough now that it might be possible for me to do a manbun |
| 20:38.40 | jnbek | a... manbun?!! |
| 20:38.52 | jnbek | daheq ?! |
| 20:39.55 | programmerq | jnbek: it's one of those hipster things |
| 20:41.20 | jnbek | i guess |
| 20:41.37 | joshh | programmerq: ya my firs company in sf used trinet also |
| 20:41.46 | joshh | they're basically an hr company for startups |
| 20:41.59 | joshh | so they can have benefits without thinking about it |
| 20:42.09 | jnbek | I'll stick with my Folgers, Chevy and Technical Metal with all cotton clothes and whatever pair of shoes I grab that are my size first :-P |
| 20:43.20 | unum | and my wire frame glasses |
| 20:43.21 | jnbek | about the closest I come to hip is in October when I dye my hair pink :-P |
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| 20:45.11 | jnbek | and there's those long stretches of months I'm too lazy to shave too, but I assure you.... it's pure laziness... If I happen to see some hipster with a similar beard, I solve that problem quick.... I spend 8 days looking for wherever my razor disappeared off too, and make good use of it, rofl |
| 20:46.19 | jnbek | hell, I don't even care if my socks match!! |
| 20:46.27 | jnbek | (true story ) |
| 20:46.33 | jnbek | just so long as they're clean |
| 20:48.45 | RyanE | jnbek: you shave the *other* hipster? That's *bold*, dude! |
| 20:49.02 | RyanE | how do you get him to hold still while you shave him? |
| 20:53.48 | unum | tell him the line for the new steve jobs movie start right there -> |
| 20:53.53 | unum | he'll stand there for days |
| 20:54.07 | unum | seems like there was a better joke their but I don't know enough about hipsters |
| 20:59.28 | jnbek | lol |
| 21:01.33 | jlp_znc | programmerq: I like to give them a range that is acceptable to me. no point in wasting my time interviewing if their target range is half what I would accept. |
| 21:01.55 | jlp_znc | plus, I can see how much they value me after the interview by where within the range the offer lands. |
| 21:10.23 | jlp_znc | iPad ProSurfaceNote, iPencil (not a "stylus"... a "pencil") for $99 |
| 21:10.30 | jlp_znc | yes, $99 for a stylus. |
| 21:10.41 | jlp_znc | sorry, not a stylus, a "pencil". |
| 21:11.38 | jlp_znc | to be honest, apple just calls it the iPad Pro. not the iPad ProSurfaceNote. |
| 21:12.21 | jlp_znc | it's a big-ass tablet, alright. 12.9" display. |
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| 21:14.03 | programmerq | jlp_znc: interviewing isn't a complete waste of time, to be honest. interviewing is a skill that needs to be practiced. |
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| 21:14.45 | jlp_znc | true, interviewing well is a skill. |
| 21:15.34 | bregalad | all people that participate in any interview would benefit from practicing |
| 21:16.05 | bregalad | I got turned down for a lot of jobs because the interviewer sucked at interviewing |
| 21:16.08 | jlp_znc | but in my experience, the interviews for positions that are below my salary requirements are typically a waste of my time (and theirs, but that's less of a concern for me) |
| 21:16.39 | jalbretsen | my favorite are the interviewERS that spend most of their time texting or playing on their phone during the interview. |
| 21:17.22 | joshh | imo the vast majority of both companies and people do interviewing/hiring badly |
| 21:17.22 | jalbretsen | group interview with 4 - 5 people. One is in the corner texting the whole time |
| 21:17.36 | joshh | its just something you need to get through if you want to work somewhere |
| 21:17.42 | jalbretsen | I had one guy do that were I was at and I wanted to slap them |
| 21:17.51 | jalbretsen | s/were/where/ |
| 21:18.15 | Jayce^ | I've done that in interviews, the guy running it didn't catch the hint that he was wasting our time |
| 21:18.32 | jalbretsen | slaps Jayce^ |
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| 21:21.58 | unum | drives me crazy when companies don't post a pay range |
| 21:22.16 | bregalad | how many times can you text 'all work and no play makes Jayce^ a dull boy'? |
| 21:22.26 | shalkie | "Dependent on Experience" |
| 21:22.39 | unum | the google interview experience was enlightening |
| 21:22.47 | shalkie | bregalad: I think he plays with guns... |
| 21:23.03 | shalkie | At least bast on the pictures of HDDs I have seen after wards. |
| 21:23.52 | unum | he plays with guns during interviews? |
| 21:24.04 | unum | hmm that might work at my employer, but probably not most places |
| 21:24.42 | shalkie | actually if he was interviewing where I work and started playing with a gun during the interview it probably would improve his chances of getting hired. |
| 21:27.39 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 21:29.59 | programmerq | https://twitter.com/programm3rq/status/642087231260258305 |
| 21:30.55 | programmerq | jlp_znc: ideally you will have done at least a phone screen and both of you will have an idea as to what type of position it is before the interview even happens. that should weed out that sort of situation without explicitly discussing salary. |
| 21:33.24 | unum | senior software engineer salaries can vary wildly |
| 21:33.58 | jlp_znc | well, my first offer from google was woefully low. my second offer from google (five years later) was the same as the first one. |
| 21:34.36 | joshh | they do good bonuses though |
| 21:34.48 | unum | well I was thinking between companies, I've seen companies that won't pay over 80k for a senior developer, and others that claim to pay 140k |
| 21:34.58 | jlp_znc | true, up to 15% |
| 21:34.59 | joshh | and lots of stock of course |
| 21:35.26 | jlp_znc | the stock offering was less attractive the second time. they changed from offering stock options to RSUs. |
| 21:36.03 | jlp_znc | and the signing bonus in the second offer was half the bonus in the first offer. |
| 21:36.04 | joshh | the big non-startup companies around here like google/fb tend to pay around 150-180 salary for senior level, then lots of rsu's of course, and a bonus, so many people make between 250-300 total in a year |
| 21:36.25 | jlp_znc | the moving expense was better, though (and that's tax free money) |
| 21:36.37 | shalkie | programmerq If you would like I would be happy to send that out to the OALUG mailling list. |
| 21:36.50 | shalkie | drops head on desk. |
| 21:37.00 | joshh | the startups don't usually do any bonus, and salary ranges are often around 120-170 with options as well |
| 21:37.03 | shalkie | I think that is a sign I need to walk away. |
| 21:37.42 | joshh | but somewhere like google the team/role/etc is going to make a huge difference as well |
| 21:38.26 | joshh | most of the highest paid people i know at those places are network engineers or data engineers (hadoop/storm/etc stuff) |
| 21:38.51 | joshh | some of the places around here pay 400+ for hadoop experts |
| 21:39.18 | joshh | only to the top 1-2 people on the team though |
| 21:40.39 | joshh | and of course there are also occasional stories like this http://www.businessinsider.com/a-google-programmer-blew-off-a-500000-salary-at-startup--because-hes-already-making-3-million-every-year-2014-1 |
| 21:42.09 | joshh | android devs are in super high demand as well and senior ones can make close to 200k even at startups |
| 21:42.36 | joshh | and they give pretty good bonuses for referring them |
| 21:42.58 | joshh | one company was in the news for offering 20k bonus adjusted to be take home after tax for android dev referral |
| 21:49.52 | bregalad | where the hype is there will the inflated salary be also |
| 21:50.02 | joshh | yes, definitely |
| 21:51.10 | joshh | with android/mobile though it makes sense... if your company can only be accessed from a PC these days, it might as well be out of business. everyone needs an app, and smartphones are sort of like the 80s PC industry all over again in many ways |
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