| 00:05.58 | inovent | Are they the ones who registered abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvw.xyz ? |
| 00:07.01 | inovent | Nope; fail... |
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| 00:57.44 | magecca | holy crap people are here |
| 00:58.24 | TodPunk | it's IRC, gotta be patient |
| 00:58.57 | magecca | I've been like 12 hours and maybe only twelve sentences have been spoken |
| 01:00.12 | magecca | You'd think with all the tech in Utah, there would be more people here |
| 01:12.22 | keldwud | there are tons |
| 01:12.27 | keldwud | we just all lurk |
| 01:14.56 | magecca | Kind of creepy |
| 01:15.32 | magecca | Classic Utah I suppose |
| 01:16.11 | magecca | Geographically, anyone near Clinton? |
| 01:16.11 | keldwud | trawlawlawlawl |
| 01:46.27 | TodPunk | tech != IRC these days. IRC is mostly niche hermit tech or arguing |
| 01:46.37 | RyanE | or all of the above. |
| 01:46.53 | TodPunk | arguing about niche hermit tech |
| 01:47.04 | TodPunk | hates Arduino's existence |
| 01:58.02 | RyanE | y no love? |
| 01:58.12 | RyanE | 'cause it's making Hackaday be more lame? |
| 01:58.45 | shalkie | magecca: If you want there are a couple trolls that can be summoned. |
| 01:59.00 | shalkie | begins to summon harle... Er.. Nevermind. |
| 01:59.13 | RyanE | do not summon that which you cannot control. |
| 01:59.28 | RyanE | Didn't you watch Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell? |
| 01:59.36 | shalkie | no? |
| 01:59.44 | TodPunk | RyanE: because it's making MCUs as bloated and inefficient as normal computers are these days. It's just a trend that I universally show disdain for, using a lot of power just because it's there (I should note I prefer that to not giving the thing enough power in the first place) |
| 01:59.45 | RyanE | I guess you should. :) |
| 02:00.06 | RyanE | I think you mean 'Raspberry Pi'. :) |
| 02:00.24 | TodPunk | A Raspberry Pi is just a computer. People use it like a microcontroller, but it's totally not |
| 02:00.27 | RyanE | Arduino is just an AVR with special bootloader firmware that runs C. |
| 02:00.40 | TodPunk | they try very, very hard to tell you it's not C |
| 02:00.48 | RyanE | It's not any more inefficient than any other AVR. |
| 02:01.03 | RyanE | It's just "friendlier", which if you have an issue with, you're IMHO being elitist. |
| 02:01.31 | TodPunk | no, friendlier is totally cool with me |
| 02:01.44 | TodPunk | uses Windows for desktops, he's a-ok with friendlier |
| 02:02.03 | RyanE | so you have a problem with the existance of the Arduino? |
| 02:02.10 | RyanE | or I should say, hate it... :) |
| 02:02.15 | TodPunk | yes |
| 02:02.35 | RyanE | ok, well enjoy. Lots to hate. |
| 02:02.36 | TodPunk | It's an unnecessary abstraction layer to me |
| 02:02.51 | RyanE | yeah, but it isn't to all those people who find it easier, which you have no issue with. |
| 02:03.06 | TodPunk | I actually have, on my desk right now, a Netduino 2. I can't imagine why this thing exists, but it does |
| 02:03.33 | RyanE | it exists because someone wanted to make it, and thought others might like it. |
| 02:04.03 | TodPunk | Now, a multi-target compiler without the abstraction layer, that's more gooder |
| 02:04.16 | TodPunk | yes, that was on purpose |
| 02:04.18 | RyanE | *for you* |
| 02:04.39 | TodPunk | I think my point is that it's measurably better for everyone. The API doesn't even have to change, in fact. |
| 02:04.45 | RyanE | not > gooder for non-programmers, and many people who don't care about anything but making things do things. |
| 02:05.00 | TodPunk | Hell, the tooling doesn't have to change much either |
| 02:05.03 | RyanE | well, feel free to make it. :) |
| 02:05.28 | RyanE | I don't Arduino much, and feel slightly bitter that they've ported Arduino compatibility to the ESP8266. |
| 02:05.41 | RyanE | but only because I like NodeMCU's Lua firmware better. |
| 02:05.52 | TodPunk | I do like me some Lua |
| 02:07.08 | TodPunk | I've done some PIC Forth if we want to talk about elitism. If I'm trying to impress my will upon the masses, I'd say C just shouldn't be used at all ever, but I don't hold that position. It's not a good tool, but it's well known and approachable. Forth requires some mentorship |
| 02:07.38 | RyanE | I think C is a good tool in the right hands, which is mostly people who write languages on top of it. |
| 02:07.40 | TodPunk | Lua is a nice inbetween |
| 02:07.53 | RyanE | I've done PIC Assembly, although it's been 15+ years. |
| 02:08.02 | TodPunk | I don't like PICs |
| 02:08.13 | TodPunk | I would prefer Ti equivalents |
| 02:08.17 | RyanE | me either, but 15 years ago, it was the Cat's Meow. |
| 02:08.22 | TodPunk | yes |
| 02:08.25 | RyanE | 18F84 |
| 02:08.29 | TodPunk | I think that's why they're still popular today |
| 02:08.43 | TodPunk | what a coinkydink, ours was also an 18F line |
| 02:08.56 | RyanE | in any case, just because Arduino has a lot of warts, and is far, far from perfect, I don't hate it. |
| 02:09.05 | RyanE | now, Arduino *users*, them I can get behind hating. :) |
| 02:09.15 | TodPunk | heaven help us on the errata on that thing we used. Our products are in planes. Sigh |
| 02:09.21 | RyanE | gah |
| 02:09.37 | RyanE | well, gotta get back to fixing my blinky lights. Later. |
| 02:09.45 | TodPunk | luckily just entertainment devices, but the new ownership wants to tie them into the plane infrastructure |
| 02:09.49 | TodPunk | have fun |
| 02:09.55 | RyanE | thx |
| 02:12.21 | TodPunk | Ah, found a rant I read a month ago, fun read for the first bit: http://hackaday.com/2015/07/28/embed-with-elliot-there-is-no-arduino-language/ |
| 02:14.49 | TodPunk | I normally frown on the use of things like "real programmer" because it's usually from an air of superiority. I can appreciate the use when it's less "I'm better than you" and more "you're saying you're exactly like me, but you're not really into this like I am and you're not sure why you're here for some reason" |
| 02:15.18 | TodPunk | A lot of co-opting like that happens in all cultures |
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| 02:33.15 | magecca | .window 1 |
| 02:34.37 | RyanE | window not found |
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| 03:00.27 | shalkie | Damn elusive windows... |
| 03:08.38 | TodPunk | Galileo boards. I remember those. |
| 03:08.49 | TodPunk | If ya need x86, there ya go |
| 03:09.06 | TodPunk | don't do anything too intensive on it, though. 400 mhz is not a lot of room |
| 03:15.30 | keldwud | remember when 400mhz was screamin? |
| 03:17.39 | TodPunk | yes, yes I do |
| 03:17.47 | TodPunk | it still is for a lot of things |
| 03:17.57 | TodPunk | just not your typical x86 OS these days |
| 03:18.36 | TodPunk | maybe if you picked up something from a long time ago, but then your peripherals aern't going to work without drivers from newer versions of whatever OS you work with |
| 03:18.41 | TodPunk | cyclical |
| 03:19.56 | shalkie | keldwud: 400MHZ? I remember when 33 and 66 were top of the line. |
| 03:20.30 | keldwud | yeah, I think my heyday was when 100MHZ was top of the line |
| 03:20.47 | keldwud | but I do remember having a 33/66 with a "turbo" button |
| 03:21.03 | keldwud | run it at 33 but then press the turbo button to get 66 |
| 03:21.10 | keldwud | did you guys ever have one of those? |
| 03:22.05 | shalkie | Yeah. |
| 03:22.08 | keldwud | https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fi.qkme.me%2F2jnm.jpg&f=1 |
| 03:22.11 | shalkie | Fun times. |
| 03:22.24 | keldwud | vroom vroom zzooooooooom |
| 03:23.04 | TodPunk | Our 386 was a 12 MHz and I was stuck using it until I was a teenager. Learned some good stuff on that thing. |
| 03:23.38 | shalkie | The first computer I built from scratch was a 286. I think I still have it someplace. |
| 03:23.42 | TodPunk | My own personally owned first PC was a K6-2 500 MHz though |
| 03:41.10 | RyanE | My sister Vicki (of your old neighborhood, TodPunk) bought an original IBM PC, an 8088 @ 4.77 MHz. Screamin'. |
| 03:41.28 | RyanE | The first one I saw with a turbo button boosted it to 8MHz... :) |
| 03:41.55 | RyanE | 25 lbs with one diskette drive. |
| 03:42.00 | RyanE | original 'clicky' keyboard. |
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| 03:51.41 | keldwud | clicky? not clacky? |
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| 05:35.18 | RyanE | depends on th ekey. |
| 06:54.00 | levi | Huh, the MSP430 architecture is a bit funky. |
| 06:56.53 | levi | It's got a 16-bit data bus, but a 20-bit address bus. Most of its registers are 20 bits wide. |
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| 07:03.21 | levi | Or maybe it's just the MSP430X that's that way. I dunno. |
| 07:05.34 | levi | There are so many weird little microcontroller architectures. I found a Renesas MCU in a wireless speaker thing. |
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| 08:40.48 | harleypig | rm -fr / |
| 08:40.57 | harleypig | wrong window |
| 08:43.35 | keldwud | hey, it's a harleypig |
| 08:43.52 | harleypig | What?! Where? |
| 08:44.17 | keldwud | I think he flew over that way! |
| 08:44.20 | keldwud | points |
| 08:44.25 | harleypig | looks |
| 08:44.31 | harleypig | I dont see nothing ... |
| 08:44.42 | harleypig | omg ... it's almost 3 ... |
| 08:44.50 | harleypig | ummm ... I'm going to bed now. |
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| 09:01.45 | goozbach | 3am crap! |
| 09:04.20 | keldwud | ask and you shall receive |
| 09:04.21 | keldwud | https://play.google.com/music/m/T67srzr5rslazcarrr6m6gv7yei?t=Wonderwall_-_Oasis |
| 09:04.34 | keldwud | it's the middle of my shift |
| 09:04.40 | keldwud | I don't get to run off because it is 3am |
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| 14:40.36 | harleypig | I'm sorry ... I missed that last cause I went to bed. |
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| 15:54.02 | bregalad | ~napoleon harleypig |
| 15:54.04 | infobot | ACTION makes harleypig feed Tina |
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| 17:22.27 | harleypig | Tina's cute |
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| 18:35.46 | keldwud | daughter is going to the library two blocks away. let's see if somebody calls the cops on her again. |
| 18:36.10 | keldwud | she's super excited. she has a reading list and is to get three books off the list and find them on her own. |
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| 18:45.11 | Tod-Work | keldwud, you crazy man, you can't let a child DO things! |
| 18:47.09 | keldwud | inorite |
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| 19:13.07 | romanovic | keldwud: you could laminate an informational card for her to carry and hand to police if it happens again |
| 19:13.18 | unum | I wish we didn't have such a busy street between us and the library |
| 19:13.33 | unum | it's under construction right now, and my daughter is very short |
| 19:13.39 | unum | so I would worry |
| 19:13.53 | keldwud | I really do need to do that |
| 19:13.56 | keldwud | @ romanovic |
| 19:14.32 | keldwud | I have a printer, but not a laminator. do libraries have laminators? |
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| 19:14.42 | romanovic | "My name is ____, I am ____ years old. My parents would like you to know I am allowed to perform such tasks as: *use the toilet by myself *tie my own shoes *walk down the street" |
| 19:15.04 | keldwud | I should definitely put those on there! |
| 19:15.08 | keldwud | just to sass whoever harasses her |
| 19:15.21 | unum | I wish my seven year old daughter was more confident on her own |
| 19:15.25 | keldwud | thank you for the snarky idea! |
| 19:15.30 | keldwud | unum, it takes practice |
| 19:15.33 | Tod-Work | keldwud, cards. Multiple. |
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| 19:15.34 | unum | we probably haven't been encouraging her to do enough |
| 19:15.39 | Tod-Work | So she can hand them out |
| 19:15.40 | keldwud | have to start with baby steps and work up to the big stuff |
| 19:15.42 | keldwud | and ask her |
| 19:15.45 | romanovic | "Please call my parents at xxx.xxx.xxxx if you need further education on why your actions today have been a complete waste of time" |
| 19:15.45 | unum | I think my four year old will do better |
| 19:15.55 | keldwud | "would you like to try doing x all by yourself while I wait right here for you?" |
| 19:16.07 | keldwud | romanovic++ |
| 19:16.11 | keldwud | that's perfect, dude |
| 19:16.13 | keldwud | seriously. thank you |
| 19:16.32 | romanovic | my oldest child is 2, so we haven't had to deal with this yet |
| 19:16.52 | unum | she has a friend who lives around the corner |
| 19:16.53 | Tod-Work | My oldest is 14. We have different issues. |
| 19:17.13 | unum | actually it's a couple of corners, but it leads back so that she could here me if I yelled |
| 19:17.23 | unum | but she won't walk over on her own |
| 19:17.41 | joshh | i grew up pretty free range, but don't let my kids go too far outside alone, and just recently stopped holding their hands when crossing streets |
| 19:17.46 | joshh | and they are 7 and 5 |
| 19:18.01 | unum | we hold the four year olds one |
| 19:18.06 | joshh | just too many crazy drivers, sick predators, random obstacles, etc out there |
| 19:18.47 | joshh | also there was a case a while ago near here where a 6 year old girl darted out off a curb and did get hit |
| 19:18.50 | Tod-Work | Less than any of us have ever seen |
| 19:18.51 | joshh | and im just paranoid about it |
| 19:18.51 | keldwud | Tod-Work, yours is probably getting her to even check in and let you know where she's at :) |
| 19:18.52 | bregalad | yeah, most cross walks I've seen look like obstacle courses |
| 19:18.55 | unum | there are less crazy drivers and sick predator then there used to be |
| 19:19.00 | bregalad | :) |
| 19:19.19 | Tod-Work | keldwud, he, but it's mostly about him giving a damn about anything |
| 19:19.21 | keldwud | my daughter sometimes stands at a crosswalk for 10 minutes |
| 19:19.22 | joshh | i don't think there are any less |
| 19:19.23 | Tod-Work | let alone telling us |
| 19:19.25 | keldwud | because cars won't stop |
| 19:19.35 | keldwud | until a big person comes walking by |
| 19:19.40 | keldwud | it infuriates me |
| 19:19.42 | Tod-Work | joshh, we have measurements for these kinds of things |
| 19:19.42 | joshh | ya i've seen that |
| 19:19.44 | keldwud | and it makes her mad, too |
| 19:19.47 | keldwud | she complains about it |
| 19:19.52 | keldwud | "daddy, the cars won't stop" |
| 19:20.06 | keldwud | but she knows better than to get impatient and step in front of a moving car |
| 19:20.07 | unum | we had a pretty good size neighborhood I could play in with out ever crossing a busy street |
| 19:20.22 | unum | eventually they put lights in at the corner of the two busy streets |
| 19:20.25 | bregalad | I've noticed that drivers are generally better inside SLC than pretty much anywhere else in the state |
| 19:20.32 | unum | plus there were sidewalks |
| 19:20.38 | bregalad | it surprises me every time I drive out of town |
| 19:20.39 | Tod-Work | crime rates are just down in every regard, for a variety of reasons that could be debated, but the rate is not |
| 19:20.48 | unum | they are actually putting sidewalks in the busy street by my current house |
| 19:20.57 | joshh | down from what? the peak of 80s/90s? |
| 19:21.03 | unum | joshh: yes |
| 19:21.05 | joshh | they are still not low enough to not need to worry |
| 19:21.09 | unum | when most of us were growing up |
| 19:21.21 | unum | my kids are safer than I was |
| 19:21.23 | Tod-Work | keldwud, I knew a gal who was 4'2" as an adult and it was much the same for her |
| 19:21.59 | joshh | also society in general has changed... these days its rude/bad parenting if your kid is running ahead of you somewhere and bumping into people |
| 19:22.08 | romanovic | yeah. maybe an individual is equally or less likely to be a sick predator than 30 years ago, but with the population increase, there may be 50% - 100% more sick predators than when I was a kid |
| 19:23.10 | unum | romanovic: but your kids are less likely to be abducted |
| 19:23.11 | joshh | also i live in a neighborhood that's like 90% asian and their kids are EXTREMELY well behaved and quiet, it's freaky. so mine stick out like crazy whenever they aren't calm and stuff |
| 19:23.59 | unum | I don't think any one is saying you shouldn't teach your kids to be polite |
| 19:24.06 | Tod-Work | like, WAY less likely to be abducted |
| 19:24.10 | unum | though in the right circumstances they should be allowed to be kids |
| 19:24.30 | joshh | of course, there have been 3 high profile abductions/murders in the last month or so |
| 19:25.00 | unum | reading an article by the free range woman recently I realized how important it is to send my kids out to play |
| 19:25.06 | unum | I hated it when my parents did that |
| 19:25.14 | Tod-Work | You hear about the ones that occur, that's irrelevant to the data. You're just better informed of FUD |
| 19:25.21 | unum | I wish there were more kid my children's age near by |
| 19:25.25 | Jayce^ | free range is so important |
| 19:25.33 | joshh | sure, you're not wrong |
| 19:25.44 | Jayce^ | my wife volunteers for the RAD Kids program, I really like their approach at teaching kids |
| 19:25.48 | joshh | but its still scary to take the chance |
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| 19:26.11 | joshh | that said, i never call cops or harass other parents for being free range, i respect their choice |
| 19:27.04 | unum | any ways in the article she was arguing that children never got a chance to lead and be in charge if a parent was always around |
| 19:27.14 | unum | of course I didn't realize some parents parent so closely |
| 19:27.28 | Tod-Work | yeah, I'm not saying you can't be afraid, I'm just saying it's silly to make policies based on that fear when it's completely unrepresented in the data |
| 19:27.31 | unum | we always send our kids out to play with the neighbor kids |
| 19:27.38 | Tod-Work | have all the fear you want, whatever makes you happy |
| 19:27.43 | Tod-Work | just don't force that on others |
| 19:27.57 | romanovic | Tod-Work: it's because everyone is alarmed by a single incident thanks to mass media, but CNN isn't going to reduce the amount of air time spent on abductions and murders to match the rate these things happen, even though the rate is decreasing |
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| 19:28.22 | Jayce^ | helicopter parenting, it's for the children... |
| 19:28.40 | Tod-Work | romanovic, yes, because it sells |
| 19:30.49 | unum | once your kids turn eighteen you need to stop running their lives |
| 19:30.55 | unum | sure give them advice or what ever |
| 19:30.59 | Tod-Work | when an audience says "TELL ME ABOUT ALL THE MURDERS!!! ALL OF THEM!!!" and you sell those eyeballs, well, that's a disconnect from outside needs like an informed public. Context isn't as interesting to average people. |
| 19:31.05 | unum | but they really need to be doing most things on their own |
| 19:31.52 | Tod-Work | unum, just not at college |
| 19:31.59 | unum | the first time I learned about helicoptor parenting was when I was trying to talk to a professor and I had to wait while some parent chewed him out |
| 19:32.22 | Tod-Work | http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/ Cute, bit over the top, but cute |
| 19:33.10 | Tod-Work | This story is like the opposite end of the sensationalism camp, but not much less sensationalist |
| 19:35.05 | unum | I didn't see any of that ten years ago |
| 19:35.24 | unum | I did see the good two shoe mormon girls who couldn't handle their human sexuality classes |
| 19:35.33 | unum | s/good/goody |
| 19:37.05 | asoc | we got to 33minutes |
| 19:37.20 | asoc | silly alt tab to wrong window |
| 19:39.33 | eightyeight | hmm. good: http://terminal.sexy/ & http://www.xcolors.net/ |
| 19:40.54 | Tod-Work | unum, prudishness is one thing. "I don't want to be exposed to X" when X is clearly optional as an experience is fine. "I don't want to be offended" is more problematic |
| 19:42.07 | unum | I like that article talks about increased polarization as why people hate being exposed to new ideas |
| 19:42.08 | Tod-Work | eightyeight, that's pretty awesome |
| 19:42.21 | unum | but I could see how being protected from being around your peers would cause that as well |
| 19:42.24 | eightyeight | yeah. it's win, for sure. |
| 19:44.02 | unum | well I think human and child development is a poor choice of major when you don't want to think about how children are created |
| 19:44.32 | unum | I notice a lot of what they are talking about in that is not people being exposed to political contrary ideas, but uncomfortable social topics |
| 19:44.38 | unum | rape and abuse for example |
| 19:45.36 | Tod-Work | that is a lot of the hyperbole in the current college generation, yes |
| 19:46.24 | Tod-Work | the definition of rape and sexual assault also constantly expanding in the legal sphere at the moment is somewhat alarming |
| 19:47.13 | Tod-Work | In other news, html5boilerplate is pretty awesome. |
| 19:50.47 | unum | first set of kickstart usb drives are about ready |
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| 20:00.34 | inovent | the fact that I can register .education is fun |
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| 20:17.27 | eightyeight | only yum(8) defaults to 'n' when doing an update |
| 20:17.29 | eightyeight | le ligh |
| 20:17.31 | eightyeight | *sigh |
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| 20:48.51 | Tod-Work | Lamda Lounge tonight! |
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