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| 01:16.54 | shalkie | Is anyone streaming fox this evening? |
| 01:17.41 | shalkie | I am having some issues with the live stream from video.foxnews.com and am curious if others are too. |
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| 01:46.24 | shalkie | Ah drats, they pulled one of those shi??y "Subscribe to login" moves. |
| 01:46.44 | shalkie | goes outside his dwelling into the "real" world... |
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| 04:06.38 | eightyeight | md5crypt, sha256crypt and sha512crypt coded |
| 04:06.40 | eightyeight | Heh |
| 04:08.02 | TodPunk | I did an SHA256 in C# once |
| 04:08.11 | TodPunk | just the hash though |
| 04:08.49 | eightyeight | That's also on the list |
| 04:09.07 | eightyeight | I was just overly curious how the shadow entries were generated |
| 04:11.39 | eightyeight | because i was bored: https://github.com/atoponce/scripts/blob/master/md5crypt.py, https://github.com/atoponce/scripts/blob/master/sha256crypt.py, & https://github.com/atoponce/scripts/blob/master/sha512crypt.py |
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| 13:26.53 | eightyeight | https://pthree.org/2015/08/07/md5crypt-explained/ |
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| 15:51.53 | spangborn | dies. |
| 15:52.12 | spangborn | New executive is demanding all developers have admin access removed from their machines. |
| 15:52.22 | spangborn | So, that's going to make doing work really fun. |
| 15:54.47 | bregalad | time to get a new job? |
| 15:55.43 | Tod-Work | spangborn, which executive? |
| 15:55.57 | spangborn | Well, we've already had 11 people leave in 7 months. |
| 15:56.11 | spangborn | Tod-Work: The new EVP they just brought in. |
| 15:56.20 | spangborn | Yep, I'm on the hunt already. :) |
| 15:56.22 | Tod-Work | so not like the CTO |
| 15:56.33 | bregalad | I can understand limiting admin access to shared infrastructure, but if it's your own workspace, how are you supposed to get anything done? |
| 15:58.47 | shalkie | bregalad: Can you run VM(s)? |
| 15:59.07 | shalkie | Just live in the VM with full access if you can. :) |
| 16:01.52 | bregalad | shalkie: yes :) |
| 16:02.06 | bregalad | but I also have full access to my own computer |
| 16:02.30 | spangborn | Our work machines are already VMs |
| 16:02.47 | spangborn | They took away full admin access, and then gave us this "OnDemand Run Elevated" garbage. |
| 16:02.54 | spangborn | And just recently took that away too |
| 16:03.31 | spangborn | They're claiming it's not an issue of trust, but an attempt to limit malware and malicious actors. |
| 16:03.49 | spangborn | That an employee could do nothing wrong and compromise the entire network. |
| 16:04.05 | spangborn | But that could also happen with a 0-day with privilege escalation |
| 16:04.59 | spangborn | It's just a knee-jerk reaction, like when they took away our laptops and moved us to VMs |
| 16:10.07 | Tod-Work | Pro tip: don't work for a company that hates developers |
| 16:11.05 | spangborn | Haha, pretty much. Wasn't always this way. |
| 16:14.00 | Tod-Work | spangborn, where do you were such that it may be avoided? |
| 16:14.28 | spangborn | A investment firm located in the Gateway. :) |
| 16:16.04 | spangborn | At this point, spinning up a VM inside of my VM just to be able to get shit done looks appealing |
| 16:19.36 | levi | spangborn: Do you have in-house IT or contracted? |
| 16:19.37 | spangborn | It's in-house. |
| 16:20.11 | levi | Our new IT VP decided that all Macs must go. Which is a bit stupid, as we do some iOS product peripheral development. |
| 16:20.36 | spangborn | Oh, you'll love this then. |
| 16:20.40 | levi | Our top-level IT management guys are in-house, but it's largely contracted. And it's pretty terrible. |
| 16:20.41 | spangborn | Some teams have Macs. |
| 16:20.57 | spangborn | But, because their patching software to upgrade to Yosemite isn't working correctly, they pulled it completely. |
| 16:21.08 | spangborn | So now they've got unpatched systems vulnerable to all sorts of stuff. |
| 16:21.16 | levi | Heh. |
| 16:21.40 | spangborn | If you wanted a Mac that's updated, you have to wipe it and start from scratch |
| 16:22.02 | levi | Well, having been an IT guy at a small company, I can sympathize with the desire to reduce variables and keep things locked down as much as possible. |
| 16:22.31 | spangborn | Yeah, I totally get that. But this is a multi-national company. They've got the IT resources to deal with it |
| 16:22.46 | levi | I don't think it really works that way. |
| 16:23.47 | levi | I mean, as you scale up, the need to lock things down *increases*. |
| 16:24.20 | levi | I think the answer is that you need to have some built-in escape valves for developers. |
| 16:24.32 | spangborn | Initially, that was the case. |
| 16:24.43 | spangborn | Some paranoia or knee-jerk reaction caused them to get rid of them. |
| 16:24.59 | spangborn | Originally, we had a developer (not even in our group) quit and not bring back his laptop. |
| 16:25.04 | spangborn | So there was source on it, and they panicked. |
| 16:25.23 | spangborn | So they took away laptops from every single developer. |
| 16:25.30 | spangborn | Moved all of our development inside VMs |
| 16:25.42 | levi | Yeah. Again, I think this is something made *worse* by being a multinational corporation, rather than potentially better due to having "more resources". |
| 16:26.27 | levi | The management layer on top gets thicker and more removed from whatever work is actually being done on the computers. |
| 16:26.56 | spangborn | Yeah. |
| 16:27.09 | spangborn | The new exec is ex-fed, so he's incredibly paranoid. |
| 16:27.09 | levi | And the potential losses due to IT system breakdowns get larger. |
| 16:27.30 | spangborn | Here's the thing though, you have to take into account the risk of employees getting pissed and doing something themselves now. |
| 16:27.47 | spangborn | So instead of just worrying about external threats, you've just frustrated an internal one even more. |
| 16:28.13 | bregalad | if you have engineers working on source code, you're at some point going to have to trust them with your source code :-) |
| 16:28.32 | spangborn | bregalad: But they said it isn't a "trust issue" ;p |
| 16:28.34 | levi | Yeah, but the people with the chops to do anything internally are rare enough that top-level IT management has no clue what any internal people are capable of. |
| 16:28.44 | Tod-Work | just get them to hire me to replace said manager, I'll make everyone's lives better |
| 16:29.07 | Tod-Work | (no, I'm not going to switch jobs, but for the joke) |
| 16:29.07 | spangborn | Not that I'd do this, but I could easily walk out the door with source code. |
| 16:29.24 | bregalad | spangborn: saying it isn't is pretty much a feeble admission of the opposite |
| 16:29.26 | spangborn | That's even with all of their lockdown paranoia. |
| 16:29.38 | levi | Their internal threat model is based largely around the typical clueless user that clicks on web links and believes the crap about needing to install security software. :P |
| 16:29.44 | spangborn | bregalad: Agreed. |
| 16:29.45 | Jayce^ | we've had the same cycle here since going public, new VP in boston (often used to work at microsoft) starts making crazy demands about laptops.. |
| 16:30.36 | spangborn | It's a funny thing. |
| 16:30.46 | spangborn | And eventually, they have to realize the work isn't getting done, and ask why |
| 16:30.49 | Tod-Work | Relevant: http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-so-much-of-what-we-call-management-consists-in-making-it-difficult-for-people-to-work-peter-drucker-53227.jpg |
| 16:31.10 | spangborn | And that's the same case with the mass exodus we've been having. |
| 16:31.23 | spangborn | When you run out of developers to do the work, finally the management has to actually look at the problem. |
| 16:31.31 | levi | You gotta understand that the *vast* majority of computer-using corporate workers are not remotely clued about the technical workings of computers, and as a result, they completely drown out the technical users in large corporate IT departments. |
| 16:32.01 | spangborn | That's fair. Like you were saying, developers need a way to do their work, though. |
| 16:32.18 | spangborn | And yes, that's a risk. But if that's not there, no work gets done, and there's no point in even having developers. |
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| 16:33.11 | levi | Indeed. But the IT management doesn't understand what developers do, and they also are completely disconnected, incentive-wise, from user productivity aside from getting support issues closed. |
| 16:33.24 | Jayce^ | I manage millions of dollars in operation revenue, and the security of all processing. But you think I shouldn't be allowed to install things on my laptop? |
| 16:34.04 | levi | I think the root of this is treating IT as a separate sub-organization with its own management structure. |
| 16:34.21 | bregalad | that's the same kind of backward thinking that powers dofus federal agencies like TSA |
| 16:34.56 | levi | As the size of the business grows, the IT organization gets less and less interleaved with the productive parts of the business, so it gets less able to respond to varying needs. |
| 16:35.41 | bregalad | you can't take a picture of a gun, but you can take 7200 mAh of energy |
| 16:36.17 | spangborn | Well, in this case, it wasn't IT that made the decision. |
| 16:36.18 | levi | IT needs to have top-level direction, sure, and probably a remotely-managed first-tier desktop support team. But part of the IT management chain needs to be actually embedded within the business units. |
| 16:36.37 | spangborn | Management basically told IT (who sit outside of our org) to execute these policies. |
| 16:36.40 | spangborn | But you're right. |
| 16:37.07 | levi | spangborn: Right, but an embedded IT organization would be able to give better information to the decision makers, and help them make better decisions. |
| 16:37.20 | spangborn | Exactly. |
| 16:37.45 | spangborn | That's probably the best solution to this, albeit the least likely |
| 16:40.13 | levi | Well, someone's got to connect the dots for the management so that the bottom-line impact to the corporation is evident to the execs. If someone trusted by the execs presents the case, you can bet they'll be willing to restructure. But the existing organization has enough layers of middle management that are extremely threatened by such reorgs that it is extremely unlikely unless the execs have someone actively |
| 16:40.15 | levi | looking for this kind of thing. |
| 16:41.41 | spangborn | That's an excellent point. |
| 16:42.01 | levi | I think that CEOs *love* excuses to rebrand, restructure, etc. |
| 16:42.47 | levi | It's just the sort of top-level direction stuff that is uniquely their responsibility, so they feel compelled to do it every so often. |
| 16:43.33 | levi | And of course it can make a huge difference when it's appropriate and done well. |
| 16:45.47 | levi | Anyway, I feel your pain and lament the state of big-corporate IT. :( |
| 16:46.29 | spangborn | It's not often I miss working for a startup ;p |
| 16:46.50 | levi | Fortunately, mine hasn't been *quite* as locked-down and we've been given enough escape hatches to allow us to stay productive. |
| 16:47.09 | levi | I keep my IT-managed Windows desktop in a virtual machine. |
| 16:47.38 | spangborn | These aren't awful - they're Citrix VMs, so I can login from a home machine. |
| 16:47.46 | spangborn | It's just painful to not have the access I need |
| 16:52.21 | levi | Yeah, there were times when we'd go visit a nearby McDonalds or Starbucks to download stuff due to screwed up net proxies and the like. |
| 16:53.48 | levi | My IEEE standards committee coworkers would have to use non-corporate email and non-corporate internet access to interact with the IEEE servers to upload/download presentations and drafts and stuff. |
| 16:56.12 | levi | So, all the back-issues of Popular Electronics are online. It's amusing looking at the computer ads from the early 80s. |
| 16:56.50 | levi | "Everyone's making money selling microcomputers. Someone's going to make money servicing them!" |
| 16:57.52 | bregalad | https://xkcd.com/768/ |
| 17:41.12 | levi | Heh, yeah. Calculators. |
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