| 00:11.17 | TodPunk | keldwud: that sounds reasonable |
| 00:11.37 | TodPunk | if you lose somehow you can always just buy my house and have a fresh start with Orem =cP |
| 00:11.44 | keldwud | lol |
| 00:11.55 | keldwud | I honestly won't be financially ready for a couple more years :) |
| 00:12.04 | keldwud | buying a house right now would cripple me financially |
| 00:12.26 | keldwud | plus, as anti-provo as I used to be, I have fallen in love with Provo in the last couple years |
| 00:12.30 | TodPunk | isn't sure how someone in tech, even entry level, couldn't afford a starter home but could afford rent for a family |
| 00:12.39 | keldwud | TodPunk, because credit |
| 00:12.41 | TodPunk | I trust you, I just don't relate |
| 00:12.58 | keldwud | and I don't have any savings yet |
| 00:13.05 | keldwud | I just barely stopped living paycheck to paycheck |
| 00:13.11 | keldwud | and I haven't paid off my school loans yet |
| 00:13.24 | keldwud | got my first real credit card in December |
| 00:13.26 | TodPunk | starter home. Keyword: starter. Fits within FHA loan limits. |
| 00:13.34 | keldwud | :) |
| 00:13.39 | TodPunk | has never had a real credit card |
| 00:14.14 | keldwud | I'm a single parent and I have to spend a lot of money to help support my daughter when I'm not available. |
| 00:14.39 | TodPunk | could get a brother or sister to rent with you =cP |
| 00:14.44 | keldwud | oh god no! |
| 00:14.50 | keldwud | my sisters are... umm.... |
| 00:14.57 | keldwud | yeah |
| 00:15.05 | keldwud | not fully functional adults |
| 00:15.20 | TodPunk | seriously though, I'm just poking you, I do in fact trust you to understand basic finances of your own whereas I merely know the asking price of my house and nothing else in the equation =c) |
| 00:15.46 | keldwud | yeah, right now I can't afford much more than $700/month on housing |
| 00:16.00 | keldwud | and the mortgage on that would be at least 1100 but I don't have a down payment either |
| 00:16.13 | TodPunk | I think the bureaucracy you're about to endure will not be favorable to your pleas on your daughter's behalf, mind |
| 00:16.28 | keldwud | yeah I think you're right |
| 00:16.49 | keldwud | A couple people here offered moral support and that will help me stay level headed and clear about the issue |
| 00:16.53 | TodPunk | I wouldn't approach media at any point in this |
| 00:16.56 | keldwud | but it definitely is an issue important to me. |
| 00:17.16 | keldwud | children should have the freedom to navigate their neighborhoods |
| 00:17.49 | TodPunk | especially with their parents' blessing |
| 00:18.17 | TodPunk | keldwud: http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/01/16/i-let-my-9-year-old-ride-the-subway-alone-i-got-labeled-the-worlds-worst-mom/ |
| 00:18.40 | keldwud | exactly, especially if their parents are actively making a decision about the matter. I can understand opposition towards kids who run around without their parents knowing where they are at, but this is a different matter |
| 00:18.58 | keldwud | I think I have a great argument for Provo |
| 00:19.17 | keldwud | if a child can be asked to accept a religious belief and commit to that the rest of their lives at the age of 8 |
| 00:19.39 | keldwud | wouldn't you think that means we think them capable of enough rational thought to take the public bus to school? |
| 00:19.48 | keldwud | or to walk to the library |
| 00:19.49 | joshh | that's not really a real "commitment" though |
| 00:19.49 | TodPunk | You can give your daughter cards with your number on it and a little note saying "I have given my daughter permission to navigate the city along the many routes she knows. If you have concerns, please contact me but leave my daughter be until you have spoken with me." |
| 00:19.54 | keldwud | joshh :) |
| 00:20.22 | keldwud | TodPunk, that would just piss off the cops. I had already contacted police dispatch and let them know I was aware of where my daughter was at |
| 00:20.27 | keldwud | but they brought her home, nonetheless |
| 00:20.42 | keldwud | and the more they approach her, the more she will feel apprehensive about being alone |
| 00:20.54 | TodPunk | well you'll never hear me say cops are intelligent and productive members of society in general |
| 00:21.22 | TodPunk | I've known a few exceptions, but they are exceptions |
| 00:21.36 | keldwud | I've got to give it to the cop that stood inside my house |
| 00:21.58 | keldwud | he allowed me to explain my philosophy and did not get belligerent with me |
| 00:22.12 | keldwud | and even made an effort to understand my side even if he didn't personally agree with my views |
| 00:22.27 | keldwud | although he still took my daughter off the streets without my permission |
| 00:22.31 | keldwud | and made her get into his car |
| 00:23.43 | TodPunk | I appreciate their concern, but seriously, there's no issue |
| 00:24.34 | keldwud | I also have to have conversations with people who interact with myd aughter |
| 00:24.40 | keldwud | she is afraid to use public restrooms now |
| 00:24.48 | keldwud | because people keep telling her bullshit stories |
| 00:25.06 | keldwud | so now she always thinks there is some creepy man hiding in the stall next to her waiting to abduct her |
| 00:25.07 | TodPunk | ugh, seriously |
| 00:25.11 | keldwud | that has to be horrible for a child |
| 00:25.14 | keldwud | to constantly live in fear |
| 00:25.31 | keldwud | I've almost yelled at them |
| 00:25.38 | keldwud | for placing such thoughts into my daughter's head |
| 00:26.08 | TodPunk | child abduction is incredibly rare, usually relatives, and most often in NOT provo |
| 00:26.30 | keldwud | well, we do have a missing person |
| 00:26.33 | keldwud | as of last week |
| 00:26.39 | keldwud | posters everywhere |
| 00:26.44 | TodPunk | missing person is different |
| 00:26.58 | TodPunk | has been alerted for every Amber Alert in Utah since they started the thing |
| 00:27.01 | keldwud | to you and me, maybe |
| 00:27.14 | TodPunk | no, even to police and stuff |
| 00:27.21 | TodPunk | anyone that investigates these things, really |
| 00:27.26 | TodPunk | general public can sod off |
| 00:27.33 | TodPunk | they're bad at everything |
| 00:27.52 | keldwud | that's because we are pretty uneducated for a first world country |
| 00:28.27 | keldwud | I had a co-worker that always tried arguing with me when we got into discussions of bad things happening and I always brought up that education helps reduce those statistics |
| 00:28.28 | TodPunk | and uninformed |
| 00:28.32 | TodPunk | which is slightly different |
| 00:28.50 | keldwud | true, I have the bad habit of lumping uninformed and uneducated into the same category |
| 00:29.12 | TodPunk | and violent crime rates have never been lower |
| 00:29.16 | keldwud | I'm a bit bigoted when it comes to undereducated people trying to force their opinions to be heard and considered at the same value as other views |
| 00:29.30 | TodPunk | well, you know, America |
| 00:30.03 | joshh | other countries have dumb unwashed masses as well |
| 00:30.20 | keldwud | joshh, true. American culture is invading everywhere :) |
| 00:30.36 | TodPunk | hahaha |
| 00:30.54 | keldwud | Australia and Canada are two good examples |
| 00:31.35 | keldwud | back to the Arch linux convo |
| 00:31.47 | keldwud | I'm trying to decide between trying out Arch finally or Gentoo |
| 00:32.12 | joshh | our stupid people just happen to be much more conservative and religious than in other developed countries, so they are considered the dumbest of all by many |
| 00:33.16 | joshh | also the fattest, and we have people of walmart, etc |
| 00:33.45 | keldwud | well mexico has surpassed us with fatness |
| 00:33.56 | keldwud | but that's because we exported our culture there long ago |
| 00:34.28 | keldwud | anybody out there have experience with both Arch *and* Gentoo? |
| 00:34.32 | joshh | maybe because fitness and healthy eating has become popular and trendy here |
| 00:34.44 | TodPunk | I do |
| 00:34.50 | TodPunk | but I refuse to even think about it now |
| 00:34.55 | keldwud | oh man |
| 00:35.00 | keldwud | some other time maybe? |
| 00:35.09 | TodPunk | upgrade to Ubuntu or Fedora and move on with your life |
| 00:35.12 | joshh | just use debian, don't waste your time |
| 00:35.24 | TodPunk | if you want to learn linux, do LFS |
| 00:35.24 | joshh | or ubuntu/fedora are fine also |
| 00:35.33 | TodPunk | debian is a fine server |
| 00:35.43 | keldwud | TodPunk, I'm already a linux admin and have a linux cert |
| 00:35.49 | joshh | it's a fine everything |
| 00:35.52 | keldwud | and use ubuntu exlusively in my home |
| 00:36.02 | keldwud | but I think I'm ready to play with Arch or Gentoo |
| 00:36.06 | TodPunk | then why on earth do you care about Arch or Gentoo? |
| 00:36.08 | keldwud | lol |
| 00:36.15 | keldwud | for the fun of it |
| 00:36.28 | TodPunk | did a Stage 1 tarball back in the day, took a day and a half he will never get back |
| 00:36.54 | keldwud | ok, howabout this. out of the two, which do you hate more and why? |
| 00:37.29 | keldwud | I might also start getting into a different shell now that I'm confident with bash |
| 00:37.57 | TodPunk | I hate Gentoo currently because it has exacerbated its problems with ebuild maintenance simply not happening, so it basically breaks faster now |
| 00:38.07 | joshh | there's just literally zero point or reason to use gentoo |
| 00:38.30 | keldwud | ok, good to know. I'll play around with Arch, then. |
| 00:38.32 | joshh | unless you find using random distros fun, which is ok |
| 00:38.35 | TodPunk | alt shells are only good if you're a developer setting up your environment for you (and obsoleting yourself from ever being productive outside of it) |
| 00:38.49 | keldwud | yeah the alt shell will just be for home use |
| 00:39.00 | keldwud | I have a light background in development |
| 00:39.04 | joshh | zsh is viable |
| 00:39.12 | joshh | but i havne't switched myself |
| 00:39.13 | TodPunk | you'll probably narrow down to zsh or tch |
| 00:39.16 | keldwud | and plan on building some fun home lab projects |
| 00:39.27 | keldwud | tch definitely sounded exotic for me |
| 00:39.32 | keldwud | which isn't a negative |
| 00:39.42 | keldwud | and I've heard zsh is great for power users |
| 00:39.47 | TodPunk | you'll fight uphill the entire time and learn a lot that is essentially useless to your profession =c/ |
| 00:40.11 | keldwud | TodPunk, but it's kind of like how learning certain math concepts doesn't ever apply to a profession |
| 00:40.12 | keldwud | BUT |
| 00:40.15 | TodPunk | you'll probably get more mileage out of learning AWS stuff and Python/Saltstack |
| 00:40.19 | keldwud | it gives our minds new ways of thinking |
| 00:40.26 | TodPunk | yeah |
| 00:40.29 | TodPunk | but you're not a developer |
| 00:40.42 | TodPunk | so that type of thinking isn't going to aid your bash scripting |
| 00:41.02 | TodPunk | if you are going to develop some new system automation thing or something, then it will aid that, I suppose |
| 00:41.11 | TodPunk | I'm not saying DON'T learn it, mind you |
| 00:41.28 | joshh | i might finally have a reason to use salt at work soon |
| 00:41.28 | TodPunk | I'm saying there's a huge stack of things that you'll get a hell of a lot more mileage out of if you'd go with them first |
| 00:42.07 | keldwud | one of my projects that I've had at the top of my queue is to fire up a bunch of aws instances and play around with salt and saltstack |
| 00:42.34 | keldwud | it would be worth the $20 odd or so that it would cost to keep them running |
| 00:43.28 | TodPunk | docker, AWS, salt, python, nginx, systemd |
| 00:44.22 | keldwud | hmmm, makes me want to build an environment now |
| 00:44.30 | keldwud | except I start work in an hour |
| 00:44.36 | bregalad | keldwud: let me know if you run into any problems :-) |
| 00:45.04 | keldwud | bregalad, hey, thanks :) would be nice to be able to pop in here while I play around with the stack that TodPunk mentioned |
| 00:45.04 | TodPunk | keldwud: might I ask where you work? |
| 00:45.21 | keldwud | TodPunk, EMC. Docker and python will be directly relevant |
| 00:45.35 | keldwud | the others I need just so I don't have to get stuck here if want to move on |
| 00:45.49 | TodPunk | aye |
| 00:46.16 | keldwud | because even though I am working in a linux environment, my infrastructure skills are starting to decay |
| 00:46.19 | keldwud | and I really miss all that |
| 00:46.33 | TodPunk | knowing how the developers you support do their nonsense is probably also a good skill down the road. Being able to say "this is where you broke it, and this is the check-in you did so with, go and do" is pretty awesome |
| 00:46.58 | TodPunk | but that's a much bigger chunk to chew on |
| 00:47.04 | keldwud | TodPunk, well that and there is no documentation for my product so reading the source is vital |
| 00:47.14 | TodPunk | also true |
| 00:47.38 | keldwud | just white papers and whatever comments the developers decided to share :) |
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| 00:48.13 | keldwud | bregalad, are you proficient in all of those? or more so with a couple than the others? |
| 00:48.50 | joshh | those are all buzzwords that will get you jobs, except for systemd, which could be good or bad for you |
| 00:49.18 | keldwud | we used nginx at my shop two jobs ago |
| 00:49.19 | TodPunk | just know it, don't put it in a resume, but man if it isn't everywhere now |
| 00:49.28 | TodPunk | nginx > apache |
| 00:49.30 | TodPunk | just sayin' |
| 00:49.36 | keldwud | that's why we used it instead |
| 00:49.38 | joshh | ya apache is practically dead |
| 00:49.52 | TodPunk | (if you already know apache and don't need performance/scalability, apache is just dandy) |
| 00:50.11 | keldwud | I started a docker project at my last job but we parted ways before I could build a POC |
| 00:50.19 | joshh | but everyone does need performance/scalability |
| 00:50.23 | keldwud | so I only got as far as researching and developing a solution |
| 00:50.24 | joshh | except for those who don't |
| 00:51.10 | joshh | but getting basic webserver skills isn't super hard anyway |
| 00:53.06 | TodPunk | my current job is basically DB bound, so the webserver could be damn near anything |
| 00:53.35 | TodPunk | not enough hits to care about the webserver bits |
| 00:55.34 | TodPunk | I should write some stuff on business in that google doc tonight |
| 00:58.06 | bregalad | keldwud: I know salt well, systemd is a strange creation (not all of the *d utils that form the *d utopia are necessarily designed thoughtfully (one could say that of systemd itself, but whatever)), there is more to annoy with AWS than to need to learn, and I only have a very basic knowledge of docker |
| 00:58.32 | joshh | aws is definitely worth learning deeply imo |
| 00:59.16 | bregalad | some things in life are designed to be disposable |
| 00:59.21 | bregalad | joshh: why do you say that? |
| 00:59.50 | bregalad | rather than any of the other dozen cloud providers that are as good or better |
| 01:01.15 | TodPunk | I've never had a reason to use AWS, but it looks fantastic |
| 01:02.12 | TodPunk | I'll be picking a bunch of crap with AWS up this summer though! |
| 01:03.22 | joshh | i think aws is the clear market leader, most companies that use a cloud use it, etc |
| 01:04.06 | TodPunk | bregalad: I'd say other cloud providers have a few things that most people will want, but AWS will still do things that you just won't find in OpenStack or Digital Ocean |
| 01:04.18 | joshh | i am a big openstack fan but it's complicated to run in-house |
| 01:04.39 | joshh | digital ocean i have no experience with but it seems more consumer focused |
| 01:04.45 | joshh | azure is a joke |
| 01:04.50 | joshh | everyone hates rackspace |
| 01:04.55 | TodPunk | I like azure if you're using a microsoft stack |
| 01:04.58 | joshh | google is google but lacks some features and has weird networking |
| 01:05.03 | TodPunk | their pricing is a bit different |
| 01:05.12 | TodPunk | but again, same problem as anybody else |
| 01:06.24 | bregalad | my opinion may be biased in strange ways, but I'm just not interested in amazon knowing any more about me than it already does |
| 01:06.52 | keldwud | bregalad, afraid their drones will turn on you? ;) |
| 01:07.45 | joshh | my last company was transitioning from datacenters to aws, and my current one only uses it for dev/test environments but maybe more later. but it's huge for startups in general |
| 01:08.29 | bregalad | I wouldn't say that they're so much better than everybody else |
| 01:08.47 | bregalad | their networking is annoying (at least it is on EC2) |
| 01:08.52 | TodPunk | it alreayd knows everything it's ever going to know about you |
| 01:09.00 | TodPunk | privacy is a myth |
| 01:09.08 | TodPunk | at least in any ways corporations care about |
| 01:09.13 | joshh | i love their networking personally |
| 01:09.23 | joshh | except i wish that internet gateways could also do nat |
| 01:09.33 | bregalad | I would rather deploy on digitalocean, rackspace, or linode |
| 01:09.46 | joshh | linode? |
| 01:10.08 | joshh | that's what im ircing from but can't imagine using them as a cloud for business |
| 01:10.58 | TodPunk | we did at digEcor, but just the corporate website that honestly nobody but the sales dude cared about |
| 01:11.05 | TodPunk | 90% of traffic was from him anyway |
| 01:11.10 | bregalad | but my experience is small companies, I don't know what overhead a big company would be like to motivate me to go somewhere else |
| 01:12.13 | joshh | my last 3 companies were 50 people -> 250 people (i was like the 80th though) -> 2500 people |
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| 02:34.29 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds | OpenWest Conference May 7-9, 2015! http://www.openwest.org/ |
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| 02:56.37 | jima | joshh: my last two employers had 15 & 150,000 -> 182,000 employees...slight change of pace. |
| 02:59.41 | frostyfrog | How so? |
| 03:01.18 | jima | in that any change i made went from inconveniencing about a dozen people to affecting tens of thousands of people's livelihoods? |
| 03:02.16 | frostyfrog | Ah, lots more pressure/stress in some ways. |
| 03:02.55 | jima | indeed. also i'm a rung or two further away from the top of the company now. |
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| 13:44.29 | shalkie | Good Morning #Utah! |
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| 14:24.08 | jima | it's too early for that kind of enthusiasm. |
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| 15:01.01 | shalkie | passes Jima more caffiene. |
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| 16:18.51 | jlp_znc | http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/247608/an-analogy-for-networking see the comments on the question |
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| 17:05.56 | shalkie | must... stay.... awake..... |
| 17:06.13 | shalkie | makes a thud as his head hits the desk |
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| 17:06.55 | asoc | shalkie: you shouldn't have passed jima the rest of your caffiene. |
| 17:09.54 | shalkie | lifts head, mutters something about double espresso and then goes back to sleep |
| 17:10.04 | youtah | http://i.imgur.com/lJVFfJM.gifv |
| 17:11.59 | shalkie | There are so many things about that image that I have to wonder about.... |
| 17:12.18 | Migs | wat |
| 17:13.45 | shalkie | youtah: How much time do you spend on imgur? |
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| 17:15.42 | shalkie | http://imgur.com/gallery/KzbyeWU |
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| 17:24.55 | RyanE | that chinese Hulk is scary |
| 17:25.56 | jlp_znc | um |
| 17:26.30 | eightyeight | hulk gotta poop |
| 17:26.33 | jlp_znc | 1. why is the goat wearing shorts? 2. why is there a goat in the house? 3. why is the kid sitting on the goat? |
| 17:26.48 | jlp_znc | (notice how I didn't ask why the goat was eating the book? that's because I know my goats.) |
| 17:26.49 | programmerq | 1. diaper; poop |
| 17:26.53 | RyanE | I assume the goat is wearing shorts *because* it's in the house, and the kid is sitting on it because no chairs. |
| 17:30.33 | jlp_znc | I guess you've got to sit somewhere. |
| 17:31.13 | RyanE | a goat probably works your core even more than a yoga ball. |
| 17:31.19 | RyanE | that baby is probably ripped |
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| 18:21.02 | jlp_znc | wonders how that purchase request would go through... "I'd like to replace my office chair with a goat" |
| 18:21.20 | jlp_znc | and I'll need some books to feed it, too, thanks! |
| 18:28.03 | eightyeight | has plenty of o'reiley books that would likely suffice for goat fuel |
| 18:51.46 | fozzmoo | jsmith: ping |
| 18:52.20 | bregalad | and a bag of chips: ping |
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| 19:01.35 | Tod-Work | fozzmoo, I love you and your recording service in amongst the community. Thank you |
| 19:01.39 | Tod-Work | ~fozzmoo++ |
| 19:03.41 | fozzmoo | Tod-Work: Thanks. I'm glad it gets appreciated. |
| 19:04.00 | Tod-Work | hopefully you enjoy it as well |
| 19:04.08 | Tod-Work | your OpenWest rig was pretty awesome |
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| 19:12.28 | jsmith | fozzmoo: pong (in a meeting) |
| 19:13.56 | bregalad | and a bag of chips: pong (... whatever) |
| 19:14.09 | bregalad | ~napoleon jsmith |
| 19:14.10 | infobot | ACTION eats all of jsmith's steak |
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| 20:21.58 | Migs | http://watchingover.us/NSA-for-kids.pdf |
| 20:26.11 | fozzmoo | Migs: That's awesome. |
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| 20:50.12 | Wegg | Mike Lee is helping Rand Paul filibuster the bulk collection of data in the Patriot Act. |
| 20:50.19 | Wegg | http://www.c-span.org/video/?326084-1/senator-rand-paul-rky-nsa-surveillance&live= |
| 20:52.29 | fozzmoo | \o/ Mike lee |
| 20:53.57 | bregalad | nice, although I usually find that guy's loose canon signature style quite annoying |
| 20:54.30 | Wegg | In this he is right.. . |
| 20:54.34 | bregalad | loose canon could probably circumscribe the entire tea party :) |
| 20:56.18 | Wegg | "We believe in Liberty and Justice for all! Unless you are Gay. Or not born here. . . " |
| 20:57.03 | jlp_znc | ! |
| 20:58.29 | fozzmoo | bregalad: You think Mike Lee is a loose cannon? |
| 20:59.09 | bregalad | yes |
| 20:59.13 | fozzmoo | Odd. |
| 20:59.26 | bregalad | you think he's a fast canon? |
| 20:59.32 | Wegg | LOL |
| 20:59.34 | bregalad | as in, fastened? |
| 20:59.40 | fozzmoo | Most people find his style a bit boring because he's not as "off the cuff" as they'd like their senator to be |
| 21:00.06 | bregalad | it's not his presentation that is loose, it's his ideas I find untethered |
| 21:00.07 | Wegg | His fight against on-line gambling seems extremely contrary to his Liberty leaning views. |
| 21:00.17 | fozzmoo | Wegg: I'll agree with that. |
| 21:00.29 | fozzmoo | Small potatoes, tho. |
| 21:00.59 | Wegg | his pandering to the military at Hill Airforce base = Military Industrial Complex . . . irks me. |
| 21:01.15 | fozzmoo | I recommend his book "Our Lost Constitution" that came out about a month ago. It's really good. |
| 21:01.19 | joshh | keeping hill afb around is always top priority for utah politicians |
| 21:01.20 | Wegg | He believes in Small Government and Big Military. . . |
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| 21:01.34 | fozzmoo | s/Big/Strong/ |
| 21:01.58 | Wegg | Praising the ridiculous F22 fighter plane. |
| 21:02.30 | bregalad | I can't trust anyone who thinks there shouldn't be major reforms to the military/intelligence/industrial spectre |
| 21:02.49 | jlp_znc | the F-22 is a beautiful plane |
| 21:02.51 | programmerq | I wish the f22 didn't have so many problems. |
| 21:02.55 | programmerq | I like airplanes |
| 21:02.55 | jlp_znc | slaps Wegg |
| 21:03.10 | bregalad | with it's bottomless budget and totalitarian regime |
| 21:03.19 | Wegg | It can't fly in the rain without it's anti-radar coating being stripped off. . . |
| 21:03.39 | joshh | good thing it's only needed in the desert |
| 21:03.52 | programmerq | I think most of the problems are administrative-- the design and overall idea is sound |
| 21:03.57 | bregalad | Wegg: you can fix that by having a service craft fly in front of it dusting more pixie powder onto the craft |
| 21:04.07 | Wegg | You can like airplanes. . . but airplanes shouldn't cost bazillions of dollars against a phantom enemy. |
| 21:04.10 | programmerq | it's the execution they are butchering. |
| 21:04.29 | Wegg | high fives bregalad |
| 21:04.30 | bregalad | a phantom plane for a phantom enemy seems appropriate :) |
| 21:04.53 | bregalad | I only wish it were a little more literally emperor's new clothes |
| 21:07.26 | joshh | mike lee is more radical than most in teh sense that he's willing to go for government shutdowns and stuff, since it only hurts things he doesn't care about or have to care about, but he's really not much different from most tea party republicans and is still a normal social conservative etc |
| 21:08.43 | joshh | that crowd is at least right on things like the nsa though, at least for now, whatever their real reasons are |
| 21:11.22 | fozzmoo | joshh: he's more libertarian than your average social conservative. Most social issues he'll advocate little or no government intervention. Big ones (e.g. abortion, gay marriage to an extent, and others) he'll take a stand on, but most issues he views through the lens of whether it's constitutional for the government to be concerned about it. |
| 21:11.34 | fozzmoo | I think you'll find he's somewhat anti-War on Drugs. |
| 21:12.26 | joshh | its pretty safe to be anti-war on drugs now, more than a few years ago |
| 21:12.55 | jnbek | did someone say drugs?!?! |
| 21:12.59 | fozzmoo | Safer, yeah, but it's not a new thing for him. he's been pushing for federal sentencing reform for a while. |
| 21:13.26 | fozzmoo | He's had a lot of bipartisan support on that. |
| 21:13.51 | joshh | so he likes drugs being illegal, but sentencing less harsh? |
| 21:14.20 | joshh | well, that is better than a lot of senators at least |
| 21:15.11 | joshh | his style aside, my main complaints about him are just related to the shutdown |
| 21:15.55 | joshh | his craziness seems more hardline/ideological, rather than just mental issues like chaffetz |
| 21:16.28 | bregalad | well, ostensibly, shutdown is what a tea party is all about :-) |
| 21:17.14 | joshh | he's like a smart guy who is wrong, rather than just a nutjob |
| 21:17.52 | jlp_znc | so, according to www.teaparty-platform.com, the major platform points of the tea party are: |
| 21:17.53 | Wegg | I loved the shut down. |
| 21:17.55 | joshh | romney is similar, i mostly respect him even though i disagree |
| 21:17.56 | Wegg | :-) |
| 21:17.59 | jlp_znc | 1. eliminate excessive taxes |
| 21:18.01 | Wegg | Shut it all down. |
| 21:18.02 | joshh | you wouldn't call him an idiot the way you would with bush |
| 21:18.11 | jlp_znc | 2. eliminate the national debt |
| 21:18.22 | jlp_znc | 3. eliminate deficit spending |
| 21:18.29 | jlp_znc | 4. protect free markets |
| 21:18.33 | fozzmoo | joshh: A senator that proposes full decriminalization or legalization of all drugs is going to get nowhere. |
| 21:18.45 | jlp_znc | 5. abide by the constitution of the united states |
| 21:18.49 | fozzmoo | jlp_znc: That's CRAZYTALK! |
| 21:18.52 | jlp_znc | 6. promote civic responsibility |
| 21:18.59 | fozzmoo | jlp_znc: Anyone who believes in that stuff... gosh, what is WRONG with them?! |
| 21:19.03 | jlp_znc | 7. reduce the overall size of government |
| 21:19.06 | fozzmoo | OMG! |
| 21:19.10 | fozzmoo | Kill them all. |
| 21:19.10 | jlp_znc | 8. believe in the people |
| 21:19.15 | fozzmoo | falls on face |
| 21:19.19 | bregalad | 0. SHUTDOWN!!1 |
| 21:19.23 | jlp_znc | 9. avoid the pitfalls of politics |
| 21:19.25 | joshh | its one thing to believe in that stuff, it's another to shut down national parks and pbs |
| 21:19.34 | jlp_znc | 10. maintain local independence |
| 21:19.50 | jlp_znc | now, discuss. |
| 21:19.51 | fozzmoo | FWIW, Obama shut down the parks. |
| 21:20.09 | joshh | fozzmoo: ya, but many national-level politicians are in favor of at least relaxing on pot |
| 21:20.10 | fozzmoo | And went above and beyond what he needed to for political expediency. |
| 21:20.58 | fozzmoo | I mean, heck, they barricaded the national mall in D.C. and said it was because of the shutdown. WWII vets couldn't visit the WWII Memorial which is an open air memorial. |
| 21:21.08 | Q_Continuum | jlp_znc: I want all that and a trillion dollars and a pony. |
| 21:21.18 | Jayce^ | jlp_znc: RACIST |
| 21:21.21 | joshh | how was it obama, he did what he had to do. its not his fault a few guys tried to make a big deal out of the debt ceiling for the first time ever |
| 21:21.22 | jlp_znc | ~pony Q_Continuum |
| 21:21.32 | jlp_znc | what? we don't have a ~pony? |
| 21:21.48 | jima | sounds dangerous |
| 21:21.51 | bregalad | ~horse Q_Continuum |
| 21:21.51 | infobot | http://Q_Continuum.horse/ |
| 21:22.01 | jlp_znc | thanks, bregalad |
| 21:22.01 | jima | Q_Continuum: GET BACK TO WORK *cracks whip* |
| 21:22.20 | fozzmoo | Bill Whittle, a conservative pundit, said in a speech that a high school student said she wanted to start a tea party organization at her high school and asked if he had any words of advice for her. |
| 21:22.27 | jima | bregalad: underscore in dns, other than in SRV? shame on you. |
| 21:22.29 | Wegg | The debt ceiling is a pretty big deal. |
| 21:22.30 | fozzmoo | His advice: Do not call it a "tea party group." |
| 21:22.39 | Q_Continuum | jima: BRAIN FULL. NEED COMMIT-TO-DISK, WHICH IS AN OVERNIGHT PROCESS. |
| 21:22.42 | Wegg | That's our kids who have to pay that back. |
| 21:22.48 | fozzmoo | His suggestion: Call it "The Rebel Alliance." |
| 21:23.02 | jima | fozzmoo: throw a "maverick" in there somewhere |
| 21:23.12 | joshh | Wegg: there was no choice but to raise it |
| 21:23.17 | jima | oh oh oh, "patriot!" |
| 21:23.18 | joshh | which is why it happened after the sideshow |
| 21:23.27 | Wegg | Choice = Cut programs. |
| 21:23.29 | Q_Continuum | 'MAVERICK PATRIOT REBEL ALLIANCE.' |
| 21:23.38 | fozzmoo | Yee hah! |
| 21:23.44 | jima | Q_Continuum: well now you just jumped the shark |
| 21:23.54 | joshh | "programs" are a drop in the bucket, the military and healthcare are the big ones that nobody can touch |
| 21:24.23 | jima | Q_Continuum: plz email all of the people kthx |
| 21:24.41 | Wegg | We can stop going to war with every country that has brown people. We can close all the bases we have in places like Japan, Germany. . . |
| 21:24.49 | Q_Continuum | jima: Collating the ports for the things I knew |
| 21:25.06 | jima | Q_Continuum: be sure to ask them "what does freedom mean to me?" |
| 21:25.15 | jima | err i mean "what else will this thing need to talk to?" |
| 21:25.19 | Q_Continuum | LOL |
| 21:25.21 | joshh | we could but we won't |
| 21:25.28 | joshh | so we have to pay for it |
| 21:25.40 | joshh | and pretending we can fix it by ending pbs is stupid |
| 21:25.57 | jima | a base of operations in germany? now that i got it, i'm not giving it up. |
| 21:26.13 | jima | sure, i may not have the money to make it work right, but I HAVE IT |
| 21:26.23 | Wegg | Rand Paul has clearly said that he would not cut a single social program before cutting all Corporate Welfare. |
| 21:26.28 | Wegg | he is ta man. |
| 21:26.31 | joshh | also those bases are very strategic and aren't the main problem either |
| 21:27.37 | Wegg | joshh, every other country in the world. . . has a total of 30 bases outside of their own borders. |
| 21:27.57 | joshh | instead of cutting military and wrecking the economy in places heavily dependent on bases or f22s or whatever, we pay for it and raise the debt ceiling when its time to, which is easier for politicians even though they make a show of it |
| 21:28.05 | Q_Continuum | Wegg: FREEDOM! TERRORISM! THINK'O'TEH'CHILDREN! |
| 21:28.23 | Q_Continuum | goes back to his email |
| 21:28.41 | Wegg | The United States has 662 as of 2009. |
| 21:29.29 | Wegg | joshh, that's like paying your mortgage with your credit card and saying you had no other choice. |
| 21:29.51 | joshh | doesn't matter, it's how the country works |
| 21:29.56 | Wegg | actually. . . our kid's credit cards. |
| 21:30.06 | joshh | no major problems can or will be fixed with our system as it is |
| 21:30.09 | Wegg | hence, why people are upset. |
| 21:30.21 | joshh | and no individual or small group of politicians can change it |
| 21:30.40 | joshh | anything that would require a lot of agreement to do cannot happen |
| 21:31.17 | Wegg | So we vote those wankers out. |
| 21:31.25 | joshh | but we don't |
| 21:31.32 | Wegg | Hatch. |
| 21:31.35 | Wegg | grr |
| 21:32.19 | joshh | every now and then a few old guard get kicked out, like when lee replaced bennett |
| 21:32.35 | joshh | but he won't solve anything either, and is actually less effective than mainstream politicians at getting anything done |
| 21:32.36 | programmerq | yeah, orrin hatch irks me too. |
| 21:32.44 | bregalad | would have much rather Lee replaced Hatch |
| 21:33.16 | Wegg | Mia Love = Romney :-( |
| 21:33.17 | joshh | the system is pretty good at keeping the maverick politicians from actually changing anything |
| 21:33.26 | programmerq | when hatch's people call me, I tell them that I pretty much will never vote for hatch because he's a terrible conservative who is very disconnected from the actual needs of the state of utah. |
| 21:33.46 | Wegg | good programmerq |
| 21:34.07 | programmerq | he's a supporter of the legislation that would have killed net neutrality. |
| 21:34.09 | joshh | and the next 20 people they called gave money |
| 21:34.27 | programmerq | most likely not-- much of his campaign money comes from out of state, iirc |
| 21:34.30 | jlp_znc | when Hatch was first elected (in the 70s!), my wife's class at school wrote him a letter asking for some information about how the senate worked. |
| 21:34.33 | programmerq | it's been a couple years. |
| 21:34.45 | bregalad | many years ago when I volunteered with pashdown's campaign, I got the impression that Hatch disgust was universal among the politically informed |
| 21:34.46 | joshh | rand paul is anti net-neutrality, but doesn't understand what it actually is |
| 21:35.05 | jlp_znc | they got back a form letter informing them that the senator's time was very valuable and he couldn't be bothered writing to a bunch of students, not withstanding that those students were his constituents. |
| 21:35.24 | joshh | he was giving a speech here in sf the other day and was like "come on people, ISPs need to be able to charge more faster speeds" |
| 21:35.31 | jlp_znc | the upshot was that the students were not voters and hence were not worth the important senator's time. |
| 21:35.41 | jlp_znc | regardless of the fact that they would become voters at some point. |
| 21:36.01 | jlp_znc | never-the-less, hatch has continued to be reelected time and time again. |
| 21:36.08 | jlp_znc | (my wife has never voted for him) |
| 21:36.48 | joshh | did she vote for pete? |
| 21:36.58 | jlp_znc | yes |
| 21:37.06 | programmerq | I tend to vote R, but I realized that since I'm in Utah, D is basically R |
| 21:37.11 | joshh | yay, you should keep her |
| 21:37.23 | jlp_znc | I've kept her for nearly 30 years... I'm not going to stop now. |
| 21:37.31 | programmerq | and for hatch, I don't care what letter is next to your name. I'll vote for not-hatch |
| 21:39.19 | jlp_znc | ~programmerq++ |
| 21:39.59 | Migs | I'm as conservative as they come, but even I don't vote Hatch |
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| 21:40.56 | Migs | most of the time, I don't vote, period, though |
| 21:41.07 | joshh | hatch would have been almost in some light trouble if he didn't work around the caucus/primary issue last time |
| 21:41.54 | joshh | he knows those are bad for "cooler head" types in utah |
| 22:02.00 | jlp_znc | https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2e/f0/6b/2ef06b15a48b8e53d8f0341c1151b08e.jpg |
| 22:02.27 | Wegg | I do that to all babies. |
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| 22:07.24 | RyanE | What's the point of having a baby if you can't make a shar-pei out of it? |
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| 22:26.10 | Wegg | Pug baby! |
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