| 01:14.12 | *** join/#utah neanderslob (~quassel@c-76-23-38-21.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:26.47 | bregalad | so, google is synergizing local user groups to crowdboost their latest web buzzwordery? |
| 02:27.11 | bregalad | http://eventbrite.com/e/google-io-extended-utah-tickets-16243104563 |
| 02:29.13 | keldwud | omg, somebody approached my daughter on her way to school today |
| 02:29.29 | keldwud | asked her if she wanted a ride and some mcdonalds breakfast |
| 02:44.39 | *** join/#utah T4rku5 (~T4rku5@unaffiliated/shunkydave) |
| 02:50.58 | shalkie | There was a search for a kid yesterday, fortunately found shortly after: |
| 02:51.01 | shalkie | https://twitter.com/slcpd/status/597833629515939840 |
| 02:51.05 | shalkie | keldwud: |
| 02:51.33 | shalkie | Still I would imagine it is scary as hell as a parent. |
| 02:55.20 | keldwud | yeah, definitely scary |
| 02:55.27 | keldwud | I didn' tlet her see my fear, though |
| 02:55.42 | keldwud | because I don't want her thinking she has to be afraid to walk to the damn bus stop in PROVO utah of all places |
| 02:55.49 | keldwud | I'm still trying to process it |
| 02:56.01 | keldwud | I might be in denial because I keep thinking maybe somebody did it to "teach us a lesson" |
| 02:56.08 | keldwud | because somebody called the cops on her last week |
| 02:56.19 | keldwud | and we didn't let that intimidate us so she continues to go to the bus stop |
| 02:56.29 | keldwud | and I'm wondering if maybe that upset the person who called the cops on us |
| 03:13.49 | *** join/#utah Squishy_ (~textual@162-223-223-199.evn.ngl.ninja) |
| 03:16.33 | TodPunk | whelp, after leaving late and traffic, I did not in any way make it to LL this evening, and that makes me sad. |
| 03:17.43 | TodPunk | keldwud: she should get a license plate number next time? |
| 03:19.36 | *** join/#utah maquis (~erin@c-174-52-237-222.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:20.21 | keldwud | TodPunk, yeah, she doesn't have that cognitive ability yet |
| 03:20.44 | keldwud | she's smart enough to not get in somebody's car |
| 03:22.04 | keldwud | I feel like we won the lottery. I mean what are the chances of actually being approached by a child predator? Not lottery as in good thing, just lottery as in stastically speaking |
| 03:23.44 | TodPunk | I think the "teach us a lesson" scenario is more likely. While there are indeed child predators that behave as such, they're quite rare and your past run-in seems to indicate other intents. |
| 03:24.50 | maquis | ? |
| 03:25.40 | maquis | walked in in the middle of an intriguing discussion. what happened? |
| 03:29.11 | shalkie | Yeah, I saw a break down of some of the child abduction statistics and things similiar to what keldwud are describing do happen but it is really really rare. |
| 03:29.16 | TodPunk | maquis: somebody approached keldwud's daughter and invited her to their car and breakfast at mcdonalds |
| 03:29.39 | TodPunk | a week before someone called the cops on her |
| 03:31.14 | TodPunk | shalkie: I saw a statistic once that more teen girls meet the workers that try to "educate" the parents on online safety than they ever do meeting actual abductors. Like, we've become more efficient at it when we're not trying. I'm not sure what that says about society, but I find it an interesting thought. |
| 03:31.49 | TodPunk | I wonder if that's the case with keldwud's kid, just an over-zealous FUD worshipper trying to educate keldwud |
| 03:34.57 | maquis | hmm |
| 03:36.22 | maquis | i was always a very social child, particularly social with adults more than other children. My mom in particular was always scared about that, because when she was young, she actually had someone try to abduct her... |
| 03:36.47 | maquis | keldwud: did your daughter react okay? |
| 03:37.27 | maquis | (and is your daughter a teen or a younger child?) |
| 03:38.44 | maquis | is grateful that the rate of stranger abductions is extremely low... because we don't have crazy family or crazy friends... |
| 03:39.20 | maquis | although i know some people around my age who were abused by a guy I actually knew... |
| 03:40.15 | maquis | and at a previous job, I shared an office with a guy whose exit from the company was necessitated by his arrest for pedophilia... |
| 03:40.25 | maquis | *shudder* |
| 03:41.22 | keldwud | maquis, yeah, she reacted fine |
| 03:41.23 | *** join/#utah smcquay (~smcquay@17.208.29.94) |
| 03:41.27 | keldwud | I didn't show her fear |
| 03:41.41 | maquis | keldwud: that's good! |
| 03:41.56 | keldwud | even though fear is an appropriate response :) |
| 03:42.05 | TodPunk | *natural |
| 03:44.48 | TodPunk | I wonder if they're still talking about the magic that is Forth |
| 03:49.16 | keldwud | maquis, a couple weeks ago somebody called the cops on my daughter |
| 03:49.24 | keldwud | for being alone at the bus stop |
| 03:49.29 | maquis | keldwud: really? |
| 03:49.31 | maquis | that is silly |
| 03:49.35 | keldwud | they were worried because it was the third time they had seen her do it |
| 03:49.43 | maquis | how old is she (approximately)? |
| 03:49.54 | keldwud | so that was TodPunk's statement |
| 03:50.04 | keldwud | I was wondering if maybe it was more likely that somebody was trying to teach us a lesson |
| 03:50.05 | keldwud | she's 7 |
| 03:50.24 | keldwud | I think the litmus is composed of the following qualities: |
| 03:50.37 | maquis | I've seen 2 year olds at the park unattended in our neighborhood... i handle that by keeping an eye on them, and trying to contact a parent to let them know where their little is |
| 03:50.48 | keldwud | "if your kid won't get in a car with a stranger, if your kid won't wander into the street, if your kid knows their way home, if your kid knows their own phone number" |
| 03:51.00 | maquis | i've seen 5 year olds, and I just text their parents to make sure that the parent knows where they are, but if the parent is okay with it, I'm not concerned |
| 03:51.02 | keldwud | I'm all for unattended kids |
| 03:51.08 | keldwud | exactly |
| 03:51.15 | keldwud | the cops weren't concerned, they didn't even call me |
| 03:51.33 | keldwud | they asked her some basic questions, she knew where she was, where she was going, how she was getting there, who her parents were, how to get a hold of me |
| 03:51.41 | keldwud | and she told them she felt safe |
| 03:51.50 | TodPunk | doesn't like children, and is all for them being unattended right up until someone doesn't like me yelling at an unattended kid for being rude |
| 03:51.56 | maquis | I keep an eye on my 5 year old, because she tends to be super impulsive currently. |
| 03:52.06 | keldwud | TodPunk, yeah, if your kid is unattended and they do something worth being yelled at |
| 03:52.08 | keldwud | you can't get mad |
| 03:52.29 | keldwud | maquis, yeah, I wanted to send her as early as six, but she definitely still had impulse control issues |
| 03:52.49 | keldwud | like, one of my other tests for her is if she can cross the street and drop something important to her and keep crossing without bending over to pick it up |
| 03:52.56 | keldwud | that shows me that she has situational awareness |
| 03:53.08 | maquis | keldwud: our neighborhood is such that if any kid "acts up", any parent who sees it will either correct it or contact the parent (or, in many cases, both) |
| 03:53.20 | keldwud | I don't have parents or kids in my neighborhood :( |
| 03:53.28 | keldwud | I'm on byu campus. so just a bunch of college girls |
| 03:53.34 | TodPunk | hahahaha |
| 03:53.43 | keldwud | *unavailable* college girls |
| 03:53.47 | keldwud | since I'm not LDS |
| 03:53.50 | keldwud | and I'm super old |
| 03:53.58 | keldwud | 21 is too young for me |
| 03:54.00 | TodPunk | and apparently overzealous busy-bodies |
| 03:54.06 | TodPunk | dude |
| 03:54.08 | TodPunk | duuuuude |
| 03:54.15 | keldwud | well I don't think it happened on my street. I think it happened a few blocks away |
| 03:54.19 | keldwud | TodPunk, buddy! |
| 03:54.58 | TodPunk | I remember when college girls were gorgeous, and now if I have to visit UVU or something I'm just like, "why is everyone so young? They shouldn't be here!" |
| 03:55.10 | keldwud | TodPunk, INORITE!? |
| 03:55.58 | keldwud | matthewMcConaughey.jpg |
| 03:56.09 | keldwud | if you don't get the reference I can be more specific :) |
| 03:56.19 | keldwud | alright alright alright |
| 03:56.43 | TodPunk | Dazed and Confused? |
| 03:56.49 | keldwud | yeah |
| 03:57.01 | keldwud | his line about the girls staying the same age |
| 03:57.02 | TodPunk | isn't hip with the lingo |
| 03:57.24 | keldwud | www.youtube.com/watch?v=wknywxfcE5M |
| 03:57.34 | keldwud | that will illustrate |
| 03:58.00 | TodPunk | I'm still waiting for the moment I don't recognize any of the new celebrities |
| 03:58.18 | keldwud | oh NSFW btw |
| 03:58.19 | keldwud | sorry guys |
| 03:58.22 | keldwud | it has swear words |
| 03:58.35 | TodPunk | wonders who is working at 10 PM |
| 03:58.49 | TodPunk | So slightly related topic: |
| 03:58.50 | keldwud | I do |
| 03:58.50 | maquis | lol |
| 03:58.53 | keldwud | I work graves |
| 03:58.57 | keldwud | not tonight |
| 03:59.00 | maquis | I have worked at 2am before... |
| 03:59.07 | maquis | and I was not working the night shift... |
| 03:59.18 | maquis | actually, come to think of it, I've worked at 2am a lot... |
| 03:59.30 | maquis | and now I work at 2am in a different way.... |
| 03:59.34 | TodPunk | today we talked about provo and a coworker was saying how he wouldn't live in X apartment complex because he wouldn't want to get stabbed in the parking lot |
| 03:59.42 | keldwud | in PROVO? |
| 03:59.50 | keldwud | they're illiterate |
| 03:59.54 | keldwud | whoever told you that |
| 04:00.00 | keldwud | they are functionally illiterate |
| 04:00.06 | TodPunk | it was hyperbole, but I kind of looked at him and wondered what provo he was ever in |
| 04:00.09 | maquis | TodPunk: what??? I mean, it has been 8 years since I was last in provo regularly... but really? |
| 04:00.27 | keldwud | now there are a couple sketchy parts |
| 04:00.34 | keldwud | where my sister wouldn't walk after dark |
| 04:00.39 | TodPunk | I told him I've lived in both Chicago and LA, and I really don't think there's ANY place in Provo I'd be scared to do anything at any time. |
| 04:00.42 | keldwud | but more out of fear of harassment, not getting stabbed |
| 04:00.57 | keldwud | like south of 3rd south can get uncomfortable |
| 04:01.11 | keldwud | and there are the corners with the drunks/drug users |
| 04:01.17 | TodPunk | sure |
| 04:01.21 | keldwud | but every town has an addict population |
| 04:01.23 | TodPunk | but you just ignore them and move on |
| 04:01.24 | keldwud | no matter how small |
| 04:01.26 | keldwud | exactly |
| 04:02.03 | keldwud | unless your co-worker was talking about Pebble Creek apartments |
| 04:02.07 | keldwud | I forget what they are called now |
| 04:02.11 | TodPunk | even if I was an attractive female at 2 AM, I'm more likely to get accosted and have to knee a drunk in the groin than anything actually being a problem |
| 04:02.12 | keldwud | I feel the same way |
| 04:02.24 | keldwud | I wouldn't want to live in those apartments for fear of getting stabbed :) |
| 04:02.29 | keldwud | what are they called now? |
| 04:02.31 | keldwud | I forget |
| 04:02.42 | TodPunk | the ones just northwest of the mall? |
| 04:02.44 | keldwud | over on 9th south and like 600 west in provo |
| 04:02.45 | keldwud | yeah |
| 04:02.50 | TodPunk | that was the place, actually |
| 04:02.54 | keldwud | they've ALWAYS been bad as long as I can remember |
| 04:02.58 | keldwud | way sketchy |
| 04:03.04 | keldwud | since the 90's at least |
| 04:03.09 | keldwud | the cops are always in there |
| 04:03.14 | keldwud | for one reason or another |
| 04:03.16 | TodPunk | apartments, right next to the freeway, in the poor part of town. Yeah. |
| 04:03.56 | TodPunk | Essentially there's nothing "unsafe" about them, it would just be annoying as hell because there's a lot of bad decisions made by your neighbors |
| 04:04.04 | TodPunk | I wouldn't raise kids there, I suppose |
| 04:04.16 | TodPunk | but if I had to choose between that an anywhere in Chicago, I'd choose that hands down |
| 04:04.32 | keldwud | true |
| 04:04.37 | keldwud | it is a relative comparison |
| 04:04.52 | keldwud | meaning it seems bad because it's bad compared to the immediate surroundings |
| 04:04.59 | TodPunk | mhmmm |
| 04:05.01 | keldwud | but compared to the bad parts of chicago or detroit |
| 04:05.05 | keldwud | well, it's a walk in the park |
| 04:05.09 | keldwud | and baltimore |
| 04:05.11 | keldwud | ;) |
| 04:05.25 | TodPunk | which is why the zelous fears from everyone about kids and whatnot are natural, but not really compelling |
| 04:06.49 | keldwud | yeah, my daughter's principal tried convincing me to not let my daughter go to school by herself |
| 04:07.04 | keldwud | I'm like, whatever |
| 04:07.15 | TodPunk | granted, I have my own fears for my kids, largely biking on busy roads |
| 04:07.25 | keldwud | yeah that's a real fear, though |
| 04:07.41 | keldwud | because it actually does happen all the time |
| 04:07.48 | TodPunk | eh, it's a fear my parents did haven't with my siblings and me |
| 04:07.48 | keldwud | drivers hitting cyclists |
| 04:08.01 | TodPunk | and that was in Chicago =cP |
| 04:08.04 | keldwud | I didn't have to worry about that growing up either |
| 04:08.13 | TodPunk | but yeah |
| 04:08.23 | keldwud | but I definitely worry about my daughter riding her bike. I've already taught her a bunch of pedestrian and bike safety |
| 04:08.35 | keldwud | and told her never walk in front of a car without eye contact |
| 04:08.46 | keldwud | and that cars are actively trying to kill you |
| 04:08.49 | TodPunk | hell, I worry about ME biking on a busy road. I couldn't bike on state street |
| 04:09.01 | keldwud | hyperbole, I know, but I have to get her 7 year old brain to understand it |
| 04:09.06 | TodPunk | yeah |
| 04:09.07 | TodPunk | I agree |
| 04:09.19 | TodPunk | assuming the car is stupid and going to destroy you is safest |
| 04:09.21 | keldwud | and they never hit you from in front, always from behind you |
| 04:09.24 | TodPunk | defensive pedestrianing |
| 04:09.30 | keldwud | it's the ones that are turning that will run you over |
| 04:09.41 | TodPunk | or drunk |
| 04:09.43 | keldwud | because they'll see you at the last minute, freak because there are cars about to t-bone them |
| 04:09.51 | TodPunk | drunk driving is probably one of my biggest pet peeves |
| 04:09.58 | keldwud | you mean cell phone driving ;) |
| 04:10.17 | TodPunk | cell phone driving is statistically not a danger to pedestrians |
| 04:10.21 | TodPunk | texting can be |
| 04:10.28 | keldwud | I did mean texting |
| 04:10.40 | keldwud | I drunk drove my bicycle a few times |
| 04:10.44 | keldwud | can we still be friends? |
| 04:10.45 | TodPunk | I almost beat the crap out of my friend for texting while driving |
| 04:10.57 | keldwud | I've ripped phones out of people's hands before, too |
| 04:11.02 | TodPunk | and by beat the crap I mean berated him very loudly in the workplace so he was socially embarrassed |
| 04:11.36 | TodPunk | go ahead and drunk bicycle, but if you fall in the street in front of a car, I'll have no sympathy =cP |
| 04:11.55 | TodPunk | it's funny though, you can totally get a DUI that way |
| 04:11.59 | keldwud | true |
| 04:12.03 | keldwud | you can also get a DUI on a horse |
| 04:12.07 | TodPunk | mhmmm |
| 04:12.09 | TodPunk | law is funny |
| 04:12.12 | keldwud | I think the most recent one was in lehi a while back |
| 04:12.26 | RyanE | http://www.cnet.com/news/cell-phones-as-dangerous-as-drunk-driving/ |
| 04:12.46 | keldwud | thanks RyanE |
| 04:12.47 | RyanE | (TL;DR: not only texting, but talking while driving) |
| 04:12.50 | keldwud | I do feel that way |
| 04:13.00 | keldwud | because I see drivers with phones on their ears all the fuckin time |
| 04:13.00 | TodPunk | um... wha? |
| 04:13.09 | keldwud | and they're the ones that can't see anything around them |
| 04:13.32 | keldwud | I just wasn't going to argue it because I didn't have any facts to back me up |
| 04:13.36 | RyanE | I personally don't think talking while driving is as bad as texting while driving, but it *is* still distracted driving. |
| 04:13.38 | TodPunk | I know too many people that a conversation on a cell phone is equivalent to a conversation in the car |
| 04:13.46 | keldwud | TodPunk, but it's not |
| 04:13.58 | keldwud | because you have to engage your brain to visualize the other person |
| 04:14.03 | TodPunk | granted, I also know a number of people that can't converse in the car and drive |
| 04:14.13 | TodPunk | keldwud: maybe YOU do |
| 04:14.18 | keldwud | :) |
| 04:14.19 | TodPunk | I don't visualize anyone |
| 04:14.31 | RyanE | I also think it's different by age. I think teenagers who are a bit more unfamiliar with driving find it harder to talk while driving. |
| 04:14.37 | TodPunk | Hell, I don't even make eye contact in a conversation |
| 04:14.41 | keldwud | I just think that talking on the phone engages and activates different parts of the brain than face to face conversations |
| 04:14.46 | TodPunk | RyanE: that's true |
| 04:14.49 | RyanE | TodPunk: That's a different issue... :) |
| 04:14.59 | TodPunk | <TodPunk> RyanE: that's true |
| 04:15.20 | keldwud | damn. I'm out of reeses pieces |
| 04:15.22 | keldwud | :( |
| 04:15.30 | RyanE | get Amazon to drone you some. :) |
| 04:15.35 | keldwud | I can't wait! |
| 04:15.43 | keldwud | I'm such an Amazon fan boy |
| 04:16.13 | TodPunk | I have yelled at more than one person taking their cell phone conversation way too seriously while driving, come to think of it |
| 04:16.30 | TodPunk | one flipped me off, but they got off the phone |
| 04:16.44 | RyanE | I've watched people in other cars text while driving, I just back away slowly. |
| 04:16.57 | RyanE | and be aware. |
| 04:17.05 | TodPunk | wants to drive a tank and just brake gently in front of those people |
| 04:17.14 | RyanE | I've also called the cops on an extremely erratic I-15 driver, more than once. |
| 04:17.23 | TodPunk | do they do anything? |
| 04:17.26 | RyanE | there are some crazies out there. |
| 04:17.40 | RyanE | I stuck with the guy until they came once, the other time I had to get off. |
| 04:17.42 | keldwud | http://exclaim.ca/images/1aphex_2.jpg |
| 04:17.48 | RyanE | they just observed for a bit, then pulled them over. |
| 04:17.51 | keldwud | also, arnold has a tank, too |
| 04:18.07 | keldwud | "I stuck with the guy until they came" |
| 04:18.08 | keldwud | .. |
| 04:18.16 | keldwud | "until they came" |
| 04:18.17 | RyanE | yeah, don't read that out of context, please... :) |
| 04:18.19 | keldwud | heh |
| 04:18.27 | RyanE | what, you're a 12yo? :) |
| 04:18.32 | keldwud | yessir :) |
| 04:18.37 | keldwud | and proud of it |
| 04:18.41 | RyanE | yeah, me too, in the right group |
| 04:19.37 | TodPunk | The liquor store in Orem closes at 7. I find this annoying. |
| 04:19.59 | keldwud | wait that's still open? |
| 04:19.59 | TodPunk | Also, we need a liquor store near Lehi, because I really don't want to drive to Draper after I move |
| 04:20.05 | RyanE | I guess you'll have to plan your drunken debauchery in advance. |
| 04:20.15 | keldwud | TodPunk, do you not know about the one in PG? |
| 04:20.23 | TodPunk | RyanE: I do, but I'd like to do the planning with my grocery shopping |
| 04:20.30 | TodPunk | keldwud: you lie to me |
| 04:20.37 | keldwud | IT HAS BEEN THERE FOR AGES! |
| 04:20.39 | keldwud | It'S HUGE |
| 04:20.40 | keldwud | omg |
| 04:20.46 | keldwud | are you serious? |
| 04:21.06 | RyanE | http://www.alcbev.state.ut.us/stores/ |
| 04:21.12 | RyanE | click on the left 'Pleasant Grove' |
| 04:21.18 | keldwud | THEY'RE OPEN UNTIL 10PM!!! |
| 04:21.27 | RyanE | don't drive drunk now... |
| 04:21.30 | TodPunk | huh, so it is |
| 04:21.43 | TodPunk | I usuall went to Springville |
| 04:21.45 | keldwud | I bet that's a game changer for you |
| 04:21.54 | keldwud | now that you know of the PG store |
| 04:21.59 | TodPunk | RyanE: never. Not even close. |
| 04:22.02 | RyanE | I drive past it on the way to the green recycle. |
| 04:22.14 | RyanE | I remember them putting it in, but it's pretty irrelevant to me. :) |
| 04:22.20 | TodPunk | keldwud: well, if I wasn't (hopefully) moving in 4 months it would be |
| 04:22.32 | TodPunk | at the moment it's probably more of a nice perk |
| 04:22.33 | keldwud | draper will be closer? |
| 04:22.43 | keldwud | I think the distance is about equal from lehi |
| 04:22.43 | TodPunk | no, Lehi will |
| 04:22.54 | TodPunk | and I mean point-of-the-mountain Lehi |
| 04:22.58 | keldwud | oh |
| 04:23.04 | keldwud | yeah, draper is closer |
| 04:23.09 | TodPunk | =c) |
| 04:23.11 | keldwud | from the thanksgiving point area |
| 04:23.40 | keldwud | 5.5 miles |
| 04:23.42 | keldwud | vs |
| 04:24.00 | TodPunk | 9ish |
| 04:24.00 | keldwud | 9.8 miles |
| 04:24.03 | TodPunk | win! |
| 04:24.11 | keldwud | good guess :) |
| 04:24.32 | TodPunk | now if only I could sell this house faster somehow |
| 04:24.44 | keldwud | still, it surprises me that there are still so many people out there that don't know of the PG store |
| 04:24.52 | keldwud | TodPunk, square footage and rooms |
| 04:24.54 | keldwud | ? |
| 04:25.00 | keldwud | and area? |
| 04:25.08 | keldwud | I'm sick of renting |
| 04:25.21 | keldwud | I'm ready to become an adult |
| 04:26.06 | RyanE | keldwud: warning, it's expensive. :) |
| 04:26.07 | keldwud | of course, it would be better if I waited another year before getting a mortgage. my credit will be more ideal then. but I could get one now up to about 240k |
| 04:26.23 | TodPunk | keldwud: https://www.utahrealestate.com/1297433 |
| 04:26.28 | keldwud | yeah, I'm poor. I could only afford high 100's to be realistic |
| 04:26.39 | TodPunk | 5 bedroom, 1.75 bath, 2100 sq ft |
| 04:26.51 | TodPunk | bit out of your price range =cP |
| 04:27.16 | keldwud | plus, provo has been growing on me |
| 04:27.17 | TodPunk | it's a good starter home, mortgage is about 1100/month after taxes and insurance and all |
| 04:27.24 | keldwud | the mayor down here has been doing a lot of right things |
| 04:27.32 | TodPunk | the only thing provo has for it is GF |
| 04:27.42 | keldwud | lots of events down here, too |
| 04:27.48 | keldwud | and I love downtown provo, and walking around |
| 04:27.56 | RyanE | TodPunk: that's not far from my brother-in-law's neighborhood |
| 04:27.58 | keldwud | it's a pretty happenin place |
| 04:28.07 | RyanE | "happenin" being a relative term. |
| 04:28.14 | keldwud | if I had better credit I would get an 1100/month mortage |
| 04:28.23 | keldwud | but currently I think it would be more like 2000 |
| 04:28.29 | TodPunk | RyanE: truth be told, owning is less expensive on average until you get into higher price brackets |
| 04:28.50 | keldwud | yeah 1100 for five bedrooms is not bad at all, tbh |
| 04:28.53 | RyanE | yes and no. If you aren't going to move a lot, yeah. |
| 04:29.01 | TodPunk | keldwud: even with crap credit an FHA loan is probably going to have about a 5% I'd think |
| 04:29.11 | keldwud | I'm paying 720 for 900 square feet and 2 bedrooms |
| 04:29.28 | TodPunk | RyanE: fair, if you move a lot, nothing is cheap =cP |
| 04:29.49 | RyanE | TodPunk: Actually, it's a block over from my bro-in-law... :) |
| 04:29.53 | keldwud | I like the 1080/1080 footage on your unit, TodPunk |
| 04:30.03 | TodPunk | RyanE: should I know your bro-in-law? |
| 04:30.07 | keldwud | too bad it's in Orem :) |
| 04:30.14 | RyanE | you live in the house you posted? |
| 04:30.16 | TodPunk | keldwud: yeah, that's about right |
| 04:30.21 | TodPunk | RyanE: currently |
| 04:30.31 | RyanE | he lives on 255 S. |
| 04:30.32 | keldwud | although right next to the library isn't bad |
| 04:30.42 | keldwud | "right next" beign subjective |
| 04:30.47 | keldwud | there are a couple parks near by, too |
| 04:31.07 | TodPunk | keldwud: it's within a 10 minute walk of just about everything but a middle school |
| 04:31.22 | keldwud | well orem jr is up on 800 north |
| 04:31.25 | keldwud | so it's not too far |
| 04:31.31 | TodPunk | yeah, just a bit longer than 10 minutes |
| 04:31.34 | keldwud | yeah |
| 04:31.38 | TodPunk | We go to Target SO much >.< |
| 04:31.45 | RyanE | I'll bet. |
| 04:31.47 | TodPunk | mostly groceries |
| 04:31.48 | keldwud | hah i was just picturing that :) |
| 04:32.04 | TodPunk | but seriously, kids being able to walk to Target to pick up something is awesome |
| 04:32.13 | keldwud | my daughter's school is on university ave |
| 04:32.18 | keldwud | and definitely not changing schools |
| 04:32.23 | keldwud | cuz Walden charter school |
| 04:32.26 | keldwud | awesome |
| 04:32.41 | TodPunk | well, I won't blame you on that one |
| 04:32.56 | keldwud | although it's technically just "down the street" since it is next to riverwoods |
| 04:33.11 | RyanE | I lived in Riverwoods when I was at BYU. |
| 04:33.12 | TodPunk | We drive our oldest up to Canyon View Jr. High daily |
| 04:33.48 | keldwud | man, I can't wait to finish paying off my school loans so I can think about owning a home |
| 04:33.58 | keldwud | couple more years and I should be good |
| 04:34.03 | keldwud | financially |
| 04:34.18 | keldwud | I mean, I could do it now, it just wouldn't be a wise financial decision, I don't think |
| 04:34.25 | TodPunk | keldwud: if you're interested, give Jennifer a call, she can probably tell you good options |
| 04:34.37 | keldwud | nope :) I have to stick to my guns |
| 04:34.43 | keldwud | now if I end up getting together with my ex |
| 04:34.45 | keldwud | who has five kids |
| 04:34.51 | keldwud | then I might actually consider it |
| 04:34.56 | TodPunk | that sounds scary |
| 04:34.58 | keldwud | hah |
| 04:34.59 | keldwud | yeah |
| 04:35.06 | keldwud | long story full of lulz and drama |
| 04:35.13 | keldwud | not my kids |
| 04:35.16 | keldwud | ex lover then she got married |
| 04:35.27 | keldwud | and was married for like 14 years |
| 04:35.36 | keldwud | and then left her husband recently and came calling |
| 04:35.45 | TodPunk | Mine won't be on the market that long, but you can do your thing at that point, I suppose |
| 04:35.49 | RyanE | wow, that *is* some drama. |
| 04:36.03 | RyanE | hopefully, the rates will stay nice and low for a while longer. |
| 04:36.14 | TodPunk | at least 6 months |
| 04:36.23 | TodPunk | probably not a lot longer after that |
| 04:36.30 | TodPunk | they wanted to raise them March |
| 04:36.36 | TodPunk | but they pulled shy |
| 04:36.51 | keldwud | ok time for beer and video games :) |
| 04:36.57 | TodPunk | have fun |
| 04:36.57 | RyanE | even if they raised them, it's still likely historically low. |
| 04:37.03 | TodPunk | quite low |
| 04:37.10 | RyanE | 30 years ago, people were getting 17% |
| 04:37.20 | fozzmoo | Yeah. Crazy to imagine. |
| 04:37.24 | TodPunk | On something in this range most likely just a $50ish range |
| 04:37.57 | TodPunk | 30 years ago one could save a lot easier for a down payment on a cashier's wages |
| 04:38.26 | TodPunk | how we got to now and what that means is up for debate, and I don't care, but it was definitely a different time |
| 04:38.29 | RyanE | not sure I necessarily agree with that statement, but minimum wage *did* go a bit further. |
| 04:39.04 | TodPunk | cashiers were a different position 30 years ago too =cP |
| 04:39.10 | RyanE | agreed. |
| 04:39.35 | RyanE | I was a part-time cashier back then, and it paid squat... :) |
| 04:39.46 | TodPunk | I remember getting a talk from my dad about saving for a good down payment on a house as a kid, actually |
| 04:39.54 | TodPunk | that didn't really make any sense when we bought 10 years ago |
| 04:40.52 | RyanE | yeah, but in my experience, if you can't afford the down payment, you probably can't afford the house (with exceptions). |
| 04:41.10 | TodPunk | RyanE: what's your bro-in-law's name? |
| 04:41.15 | RyanE | Chuck Sisson |
| 04:41.19 | TodPunk | oh, dude |
| 04:41.30 | TodPunk | catholic convert dude |
| 04:41.30 | RyanE | is that a good oh, dude, or bad.. :) |
| 04:41.39 | TodPunk | I know him, he's friendly enough |
| 04:42.03 | RyanE | I don't think I'd call him "catholic convert dude"... you may be thinking of someone else. |
| 04:42.20 | RyanE | otoh, I only know him as my bro-in-law. |
| 04:42.26 | TodPunk | His wife was a great primary chorister, overcame a lot of stage-fright |
| 04:42.43 | RyanE | I think you may be thinking of someone else. |
| 04:42.48 | TodPunk | Vicki? |
| 04:43.04 | RyanE | yeah, but she's never had stage fright in her life. |
| 04:43.20 | RyanE | and has led music since college. |
| 04:43.45 | TodPunk | ope, no, my wife corrects me on Vicki |
| 04:43.57 | TodPunk | Vicki was the pianist |
| 04:44.03 | RyanE | there ya go. :) |
| 04:44.11 | TodPunk | is not great with names |
| 04:44.44 | TodPunk | Chuck used to be either Catholic or Baptist or something. Used to talk about that in testimonies or something. I never paid much attention |
| 04:45.05 | TodPunk | that's literally all I know about them =cP I'm such a socialite! |
| 04:45.08 | RyanE | I think it was "something". |
| 04:45.10 | RyanE | :) |
| 04:45.24 | RyanE | well, cool. |
| 04:45.30 | TodPunk | regardless, someone needs to buy my house |
| 04:45.37 | RyanE | and you're moving out Thanksgiving Point way? |
| 04:45.48 | TodPunk | yeah |
| 04:45.59 | TodPunk | building, but only if we can sell the house, obviously |
| 04:46.05 | TodPunk | can't get a loan without the equity being moved |
| 04:46.38 | RyanE | well, in theory we're coming into the home buying season, so good luck with that. |
| 04:46.45 | TodPunk | supposedly, yes |
| 04:47.01 | TodPunk | has no idea about any of this |
| 04:47.07 | TodPunk | I only do what I'm told |
| 04:47.14 | RyanE | heh |
| 04:48.42 | TodPunk | supposes sleep should happen |
| 04:48.53 | TodPunk | cheers! |
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| 04:51.21 | keldwud | omg that tree in the back yard is awesome! |
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| 07:46.14 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds | OpenWest Conference May 7-9, 2015! http://www.openwest.org/ |
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| 13:31.00 | TodPunk | keldwud: I do love that tree. I don't like the leaves it litters, but I do love that tree. (I hate yard work, and the only reason I'm a home owner is because 5 bedroom apartments are difficult to find and afford) |
| 13:31.25 | keldwud | looks like a great tree to lounge in |
| 13:33.08 | TodPunk | It is not very climbable as it stands. My brother-in-law has setup a hammock with it on a few occasions, and building a rope ladder to get up to the loungy bits is probably easy |
| 13:33.21 | TodPunk | I don't recommend it. It's outside. |
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| 15:12.41 | Tod-Work | He who spills coffee on himself must wear less shirts |
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| 15:20.46 | fungus | He who spills coffee on himself must learn to drink coffee, or not drink coffee. |
| 15:21.20 | weedpatch2 | +1 |
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| 15:54.25 | harleypig | meh |
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| 16:04.01 | Tod-Work | fozzmoo, you're the ONLY person on my FB list of people I actually read that can post political stuff and not make me roll my eyes. Half the time they make me laugh. |
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| 16:14.28 | tensai | ~lart Jayce^ |
| 16:14.28 | infobot | shoots Jayce^ in his sleep |
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| 16:16.47 | jsmith | tensai: Only one problem, Jayce^ doesn't sleep |
| 16:22.53 | harleypig | I've got a fairly decent iptables file I've been using, including a tarpit setup. But the new CentOS 7 firewalld setup ... I can't figure out how to setup a tarpit ... any pointers? |
| 16:23.23 | weedpatch2 | int* |
| 16:25.55 | harleypig | ~lart weedpatch2 |
| 16:25.55 | infobot | beats weedpatch2 severely about the head and shoulders with a rubber chicken |
| 16:26.37 | goozbach | harleypig: what are the tarpit options |
| 16:27.15 | harleypig | What my current file does is just keep the connection open longer for each failed attempt. |
| 16:27.26 | harleypig | nm ... someone just told me fail2ban does the same thing, but better. |
| 16:27.43 | Tod-Work | jsmith, are you saying Jayce^ is Chuck Norris? |
| 16:28.13 | goozbach | hah, that's where I was going!!! |
| 16:28.52 | jsmith | Tod-Work: Not quite... |
| 16:29.13 | Tod-Work | I don't know if I'm disappointed or not... |
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| 16:33.04 | harleypig | goozbach: :] |
| 16:33.52 | harleypig | On a completely different topic, can anyone tell me why, in my tmux.conf, set -g update-environment -r won't set HOSTNAME even though it's set in the calling environment? |
| 16:34.56 | harleypig | Oh hey! ... Documentation is a wonderful thing isn't it. |
| 16:35.02 | harleypig | crawls back under his rock. |
| 16:36.56 | goozbach | harleypig: are you dropping bogos |
| 16:37.05 | goozbach | and blackhole'ing china? |
| 16:37.14 | harleypig | No. bogons yes, dunno what bogos are. |
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| 16:37.30 | goozbach | bogons |
| 16:37.32 | goozbach | not bogos |
| 16:37.48 | goozbach | let me find my 'block china' script |
| 16:37.52 | harleypig | Trying to. Those .... bad words that'll get me in trouble ... people are annoying the heck out of me. |
| 16:38.20 | harleypig | I have 5 servers they are hammering ... one has half a million failed attempts in two days. |
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| 17:20.36 | youtah | http://i.imgur.com/AwXzodW.gif |
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| 20:21.36 | rsimpkins | I have a pretty good block china script if anyone needs one. :) |
| 20:21.53 | rsimpkins | Well, it will at least gen the iptables rules. |
| 20:22.21 | rsimpkins | Just uses bash. |
| 20:24.49 | RyanE | I want one that will send back something that shocks the keyboard of the offending sender. |
| 20:25.28 | programmerq | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6zQao8JWzk - relevant |
| 20:25.52 | RyanE | nice |
| 20:26.28 | jlp_znc | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8Keo97K9cs |
| 20:26.37 | bregalad | RyanE: you mean like: http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/06/266590.shtml |
| 20:27.17 | RyanE | sure, but only people I don't like. |
| 20:27.20 | RyanE | oh wait... |
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| 20:49.05 | youtah | ~nachos |
| 20:49.05 | infobot | schweet. |
| 20:49.16 | bregalad | ~nacho |
| 20:49.16 | infobot | Sometimes when you are a man you wear stretchy pants in your room all by yourself. |
| 20:54.04 | youtah | hey shalkie! remember that one time when we were at OpenWest? |
| 20:54.08 | youtah | Ahhhh, good times those were |
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| 20:55.37 | RyanE | youtah: you go to this last one? |
| 20:55.52 | youtah | yeah |
| 20:56.06 | youtah | you? |
| 20:56.17 | youtah | There were something like 1500 in attendance this year. Lots of people! |
| 20:56.19 | RyanE | yep. They even manged to have some sessions on Saturday that I thought worth going to. |
| 20:56.30 | RyanE | other than the rain, it was pretty perfect. |
| 20:56.36 | youtah | LOL |
| 20:56.45 | youtah | Oh wait, I thought you said Rails |
| 20:56.48 | youtah | (Ruby on Rails) |
| 20:57.07 | RyanE | well, and the fact that the only session on Lua was a Love2D presentation. :| |
| 20:59.01 | shalkie | youtah: Yeah, good times. ;) |
| 21:00.33 | youtah | although, I don't think that there was a single Ruby presentation, now that I think about it |
| 21:01.08 | RyanE | not even rails? |
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| 21:05.28 | youtah | nope |
| 21:05.45 | youtah | hey harleypig we're close to breaking 800 pokes |
| 21:06.10 | harleypig | :] I noticed that. |
| 21:07.02 | harleypig | You should install an auto poker again and see how high we can get it. |
| 21:07.51 | youtah | I think you still have an auto poker going |
| 21:07.53 | youtah | somewhere |
| 21:08.03 | jlp_znc | TMI |
| 21:08.09 | youtah | LOL |
| 21:08.13 | harleypig | I do. |
| 21:09.32 | harleypig | That would be an interesting misuse of a product ... Set the Bunny Fucker up to keep pressing the poke button ... :D |
| 21:09.54 | youtah | ROFL |
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| 21:17.53 | youtah | We now have ONE restaurant that will deliver to our area!!!! |
| 21:18.07 | jlp_znc | ? |
| 21:18.16 | jlp_znc | restaurants deliver? |
| 21:18.31 | youtah | Chinese, Pizza, etc |
| 21:19.12 | jlp_znc | ahh, I guess I have a different idea of a restaurant. I suppose you can even consider McDonald's a "restaurant" if you lean sideways and squint a little. |
| 21:19.18 | youtah | Someone said that they talked the Dominos into delivering if they ordered at least 10 pizzas and added an extra $20 on the tip. |
| 21:19.25 | jlp_znc | gack |
| 21:19.55 | jlp_znc | I have two dominoes within five miles of my house. I generally pick up instead of having them deliver because my dogs like to eat people. |
| 21:20.13 | RyanE | we have a dominos within about 1.5 miles. |
| 21:20.15 | jlp_znc | well, bite them, maybe taste them a little. not really eat them. |
| 21:20.25 | RyanE | but we pick up at little ceasars'... cheaper. :) |
| 21:20.36 | Tod-Work | youtah, Dominos doesn't deliver to you? It's like, 7 minutes away... |
| 21:24.57 | shalkie1 | youtah: You have one place that does delivery and it does Chinese _and_ pizza? |
| 21:25.41 | jalbretsen | hangs head in shame for not going to OpenWest this year |
| 21:26.21 | shalkie | whaaaaattttttttttt??????!!!!!! |
| 21:27.02 | keldwud | I missed openwest, too |
| 21:27.16 | keldwud | :( |
| 21:28.52 | jalbretsen | shalkie - I was surprised you and / or herlo have not harassed me about it yet ;) |
| 21:29.03 | RyanE | I don't know if it wasn't advertised as well this year, but I have a coworker who also missed it this year. |
| 21:29.07 | RyanE | didn't notice until too late. |
| 21:30.53 | goozbach | RyanE: thanks for the toothpick! |
| 21:31.09 | goozbach | openwest was the shiz! |
| 21:31.41 | youtah | #FoSho |
| 21:32.23 | RyanE | np. |
| 21:32.28 | RyanE | love those things. |
| 21:32.34 | youtah | hashtags? |
| 21:32.42 | youtah | #MeToo |
| 21:32.55 | youtah | #;) |
| 21:32.56 | bregalad | maybe next year it will be in a bigger venue :) |
| 21:33.13 | RyanE | these: http://www.amazon.com/Plackers-Micro-Mint-Flossers-Count-/dp/B00ENLEGIE/ref=sr_1_1 |
| 21:33.28 | RyanE | I'm pretty indifferent about hashtags. :) |
| 21:33.51 | jalbretsen | I had a student use hashtags in a quiz |
| 21:33.58 | jalbretsen | er, on a quiz |
| 21:34.09 | frostyfrog | bregalad: They mentioned something about a bigger venue, saying something along the lines of increasing the ticket price. |
| 21:34.43 | youtah | yeah, I think that UVU is *really* tough because A) that 2.5 mile long hallway sucks testicles to walk down multiple times B) it's just that much closer to BYU. C) WiFi D) Concrete bunker prevents any sort of 3G/4G (preventing hot spotting) E) Quantity of individuals able to attend |
| 21:34.49 | frostyfrog | #ThisQuizRocks? |
| 21:35.15 | youtah | #SoHotForTeacher |
| 21:35.16 | bregalad | #hashbang |
| 21:35.21 | youtah | #hashbrown |
| 21:35.41 | jlp_znc | uh, A? |
| 21:35.42 | goozbach | #octothorpe |
| 21:35.59 | goozbach | #octothorpePoundNumbersign |
| 21:36.01 | youtah | 3.5 miles |
| 21:36.02 | youtah | sorry |
| 21:36.09 | bregalad | youtah: I've always thought UVU's campuse would be an epic setting for some kind of group game |
| 21:36.21 | youtah | Paintball |
| 21:36.24 | jlp_znc | UVU seems to have a nice modern campus |
| 21:36.32 | Tod-Work | jalbretsen, I didn't go either. I missed out on the badge, but I don't regret focusing on house stuff instead |
| 21:36.34 | goozbach | attack/defend down that corridor... |
| 21:36.35 | goozbach | yeah |
| 21:36.36 | jlp_znc | lots of shiny glass buildings |
| 21:36.49 | goozbach | lots of good leapfrog cover |
| 21:36.55 | RyanE | one hella long corridor to defend. |
| 21:36.59 | goozbach | yeah |
| 21:37.03 | youtah | lol |
| 21:37.03 | goozbach | but it'd be awesome! |
| 21:37.07 | jlp_znc | did you guys ever play "killer"? |
| 21:37.18 | RyanE | goozbach: I'm not sure I recognized who you were when I gave you the toothpick. Duh! |
| 21:37.18 | jlp_znc | (or "assassin"? |
| 21:37.20 | jlp_znc | ) |
| 21:37.26 | youtah | UVU >>> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/PanoBunker.jpg |
| 21:38.04 | jlp_znc | http://www.sjgames.com/killer/ |
| 21:38.10 | bregalad | there were(/are?) so many thins systemically wrong with UVU as to raise questions about its existential justifications |
| 21:38.19 | youtah | shifting gears.... looking at that bunker... can you imagine the #$@% it saw? |
| 21:38.42 | bregalad | UU was bad, but only because it's a large, world-class research university and thus completely overrotten by academia |
| 21:38.57 | youtah | lol |
| 21:39.24 | bregalad | UVU was definitely in its own dimension of stupidity though |
| 21:39.32 | youtah | A) No one cares about Davis County B) Somewhere between UofU and BYU |
| 21:39.54 | youtah | preferably more centralized |
| 21:40.11 | jlp_znc | why not one of the SLCC campusses? wasn't it at the miller campus one time a few years ago? |
| 21:40.44 | youtah | The miller campus is surprisingly small. |
| 21:40.46 | RyanE | I think I prefer UVU to the MFEC at Miller campus. |
| 21:41.01 | bregalad | I think the Jordan campus would be less crowded |
| 21:41.18 | jalbretsen | youtah - Hey, I like Davis County, next OpenWest will be at Station Park |
| 21:41.18 | bregalad | but the last time I was there was several years ago |
| 21:41.21 | youtah | and they actually have, like, ethernet jacks in the walls and stuff |
| 21:41.56 | jalbretsen | youtah - Apple told me I never have to use ethernet jacks again. I OBEY. |
| 21:42.00 | bregalad | youtah: you mean they don't try to nanny your intarwebz use like a high school fascist? |
| 21:42.41 | rsimpkins | So I deployed Salt 2015.5 to 1,400 hosts today. VERY nice stuff. Can't wait to push this thing out to the rest of our system. |
| 21:43.03 | rsimpkins | Significantly better than prior versions. |
| 21:43.42 | bregalad | rsimpkins: I am very interested in the specific improvements you've found |
| 21:45.54 | shalkie | jalbretsen: I was too busy with the Volunteers. |
| 21:46.55 | goozbach | https://twitter.com/goozbach/status/598602324743823360 |
| 21:46.57 | goozbach | FYI! |
| 21:48.49 | Migs | woot woot! |
| 21:49.09 | fozzmoo | ~lart youtah |
| 21:49.09 | infobot | beats youtah to within 2.54cm of his life |
| 21:51.14 | rsimpkins | bregalad: Please feel free to msg me and ask specific questions. :) |
| 21:59.39 | *** join/#utah neanderslob (~quassel@c-76-23-38-21.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:03.35 | jlp_znc | sucks down the Xcode 6.3.1 update... 1.4GB in four minutes. I'm glad I'm doing this at work. |
| 22:12.57 | jalbretsen | ugh |
| 22:13.39 | asoc | rsimpkins: our happiness was that we got all 2 machines updated to 2015.5 fixed some stuff for us too. But we are in the salt infancy still. |
| 22:13.50 | Tod-Work | rsimpkins, what's improved about it in your mind? |
| 22:14.18 | jalbretsen | jlp_znc I got to download that yesterday. I need accept a license agreement to use a simple command at the terminal to change a file system attribute for a single folder. Thanks Apple. |
| 22:15.42 | rsimpkins | Tod-Work: Fewer minion crashes, way faster performance. |
| 22:16.05 | Tod-Work | hmmmm, what happens when a minion crashes? |
| 22:17.26 | rsimpkins | Tod-Work: You SSH in and start it again... or create a cron job that constantly restarts crashed minions. |
| 22:18.03 | Tod-Work | would hope the daemon manager would do so |
| 22:18.08 | joshh | do they work well with upstart/supervisord/god/monit/etc? |
| 22:18.42 | frostyfrog | will have to try to play around with chef someday... |
| 22:19.19 | frostyfrog | Tod-Work: Depends on which init/daemon manager you are using. |
| 22:19.33 | Tod-Work | fair |
| 22:19.41 | Tod-Work | will never touch chef or puppet |
| 22:19.50 | joshh | chef is my favorite |
| 22:19.52 | Tod-Work | poked that bear a couple times, never again |
| 22:20.16 | joshh | between chef and puppet at least, still haven't used salt |
| 22:20.37 | joshh | what do you use instead of those, Tod-Work |
| 22:20.54 | Tod-Work | for which aspect of them? |
| 22:21.03 | joshh | config management |
| 22:21.33 | Tod-Work | I don't have to, I have... 3 servers? |
| 22:21.40 | joshh | ah, ok |
| 22:22.18 | bregalad | Tod-Work: but if you put containers on there, you could have 300, just imagine the possibilities! |
| 22:22.21 | Tod-Work | We're looking at salt for new infrastructure, though, and we used to build with a bash script and use an ansible state to bring it up to snuff before shipping off to the backwoods airports |
| 22:22.48 | joshh | guess i just assume everyone does EXTREME DEVOPS these days |
| 22:22.59 | rsimpkins | If an organization isn't seriously considering a Salt deployment - they are probably a very broken organization. |
| 22:23.09 | RyanE | some of us don't even do 'laid-back' devops these days. |
| 22:23.14 | rsimpkins | There is a very good reason Salt has been seeing this massive tidal wave of momentum building. |
| 22:23.51 | joshh | i know of a few puppet shops that have switched to salt, but not from chef |
| 22:24.07 | rsimpkins | I'm sure exceptions apply, but most (esspecially larger) shops would be nuts not to very seriously weigh SaltStack. |
| 22:24.24 | rsimpkins | We are doing both. Salt+Puppet |
| 22:24.31 | rsimpkins | You don't need to replace anything. |
| 22:24.39 | jlp_znc | I hear ansible is the bee's knees |
| 22:24.56 | jlp_znc | looks at goozbach |
| 22:25.16 | joshh | what does each do, rsimpkins |
| 22:25.25 | joshh | fwiw, i am personally interested in salt, just short on time and low on a need for it |
| 22:25.56 | rsimpkins | joshh: Salt orchestrates a masterless puppet deployment across xx,xxx hosts. |
| 22:26.26 | rsimpkins | joshh: But Salt does SO MUCH MORE than just you run-of-the-mill config management, that it just seems a no-brainer to me. |
| 22:26.31 | rsimpkins | Why wouldn't someone choose it? |
| 22:27.01 | rsimpkins | I guess if you have one host to manage, you might not choose it. |
| 22:27.14 | joshh | seems like it generally comes down to what teams are familiar with, when choosing |
| 22:27.16 | rsimpkins | Not a lot of single server deployments out there these days. |
| 22:27.30 | rsimpkins | joshh: I don't think that applies in the case of Salt. |
| 22:27.52 | rsimpkins | joshh: It applies in the case of 'new tech - I am scared' or 'new tech - ewww - we like old tech' |
| 22:27.55 | joshh | lyft chose it over puppet because they thought it would be awesome or something |
| 22:28.00 | joshh | and apparently are happy with it |
| 22:28.40 | rsimpkins | IMHO, Salt Stack hasn't done a very good job with the elevator pitch to the SRE/SA crowd among us. |
| 22:28.45 | joshh | http://ryandlane.com/blog/2014/08/04/moving-away-from-puppet-saltstack-or-ansible/ |
| 22:28.59 | rsimpkins | My feeling is that it is 100% unfair to ansible and puppet to compare them to Salt. |
| 22:30.11 | tensai | clearly they need to hire you |
| 22:30.11 | rsimpkins | There are few projects in recent memory that have generated as much momentum and excitement as Salt has done. |
| 22:30.59 | rsimpkins | Salt will do just fine without the likes of me screwing things up! |
| 22:31.35 | joshh | ansible i get but other than orchestration bits how is it REALLY that much better than puppet that it's an unfair comparison |
| 22:31.46 | jalbretsen | moved his small employer from Puppet to Salt. Has not regretted it |
| 22:31.48 | joshh | also its easy to do too much using your config management system and get a lot of tech debt |
| 22:33.43 | joshh | also chef can do some decent orchestration as well |
| 22:33.47 | rsimpkins | joshh: You are totally right. If an organization thinks that orchestration is just SOOO over-rated that they don't need it, then Salt won't help them. |
| 22:34.33 | joshh | im just asking for facts |
| 22:34.47 | joshh | because im actually interested |
| 22:35.24 | rsimpkins | joshh: It is subjective. In my subjective opinion the Salt architecture is one that is more sound than just about any other tool in the category. |
| 22:35.26 | *** join/#utah bcwinter (~user@128.187.205.74) |
| 22:35.45 | bregalad | I've been quite impressed with salt's breadth of support and ease of setup, but I can't really compare because I haven't used anything else |
| 22:36.09 | rsimpkins | We could get in to a big long list of empericall evidence for why one system is better than another in some narrow category... but I figure things will shake out without people like me spelling it out in detail. |
| 22:36.25 | joshh | just tell me some things you like about it... this is a friendly discussion |
| 22:37.03 | frostyfrog | I found Chef's introduction/walkthrough to be pretty easy. But then, I like it's simple scriptable nature. |
| 22:37.23 | frostyfrog | has no experience with Salt. |
| 22:38.19 | rsimpkins | joshh: I like the ease of use, straight forward modular design, ease of extensibility, performance, scalability, and the concept of the secure messaging bus as an architectural core component due to its simplicity and flexability to grow in to new functional roles. |
| 22:39.05 | rsimpkins | joshh: I like the community, the culture behind it, the people running it, the way the company is managed, the documentation, the pace of improvment, and many other subjective aspects of the project. |
| 22:39.10 | rsimpkins | To name a few. |
| 22:39.26 | frostyfrog | rsimpkins: What would you say of Salt compared to RH's Kickstart Scripts for setting up machines. |
| 22:40.00 | rsimpkins | frostyfrog: I would do both. For me Salt is not a 'one or the other'. It is a Salt + X + Y + Z game. |
| 22:40.27 | rsimpkins | It can fit a narrow nitch role, or fill a more expansive position within a system. |
| 22:40.29 | joshh | cool, that all sounds good. |
| 22:40.47 | frostyfrog | I'm just curious since we are exclusively using kickstart scripts to set up machines, with manual config steps afterwards. |
| 22:40.56 | joshh | i definitely do want to find the time to get familiar with it. as it stands now, chef is what i will push for in any greenfield setup or chance to switch |
| 22:41.50 | rsimpkins | frostyfrog: The 'manual config steps afterwards' is a great thing to tackle with Salt. It is great at deploying in baby steps. Start small, grow out as you gain experience and see needs. |
| 22:42.13 | frostyfrog | Alrighty, thanks :) |
| 22:42.48 | frostyfrog | Any tutorials you would recommend before I go scouring the web? |
| 22:43.11 | rsimpkins | Um, I sit next to Christer Edwards. I highly recommend it. :) |
| 22:43.25 | rsimpkins | Though, that might not scale well. ;( |
| 22:43.29 | frostyfrog | xD |
| 22:43.52 | rsimpkins | There are tons of vids from the Salt Stack conference on-line. I suggest starting with those. |
| 22:44.22 | rsimpkins | There should be some good basics vids, best practice vids, and a few splashy vids (beacons and reactor, for example). |
| 22:44.25 | joshh | i glanced at the docs once when i had a free 5 minutes and they did seem pretty well done |
| 22:44.29 | joshh | chef also has amazing docs though |
| 22:44.33 | joshh | and puppet honestly |
| 22:44.38 | frostyfrog | Will do when I have a moment. :) |
| 22:44.43 | joshh | i think we can just all agree that as long as you aren't using ansible, you're fine :P |
| 22:44.47 | asoc | Salt is about to come out with some new starter tutorial documentation |
| 22:44.53 | asoc | soon (tm) |
| 22:44.54 | rsimpkins | lol |
| 22:45.14 | bregalad | frostyfrog: when our new documentation site goes up in the next week or so, we'll have a new tutorial section that should be a great improvement |
| 22:46.21 | frostyfrog | So... "Coming in over two months"? |
| 22:46.40 | frostyfrog | Or "October 10, 2007"? |
| 22:46.43 | asoc | I have heard good things of said new tutorials. |
| 22:46.48 | bregalad | it's pretty much done at this point |
| 22:47.11 | frostyfrog | https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time |
| 22:47.44 | rsimpkins | frostyfrog: A good first step with Salt is to get Salt managing Salt. It is great at wrangling its own configs and minions. |
| 22:47.48 | bregalad | we're doing internal review right now before it goes live |
| 22:48.17 | joshh | just anecdotally i think everyone i know that uses ansible is either a windows-primary IT guy, or network engineer that has like 2 servers and doesn't know other systems, so it probably just biases me. but im under the impression that it's far less capable overall |
| 22:48.21 | rsimpkins | Salt + git FTW. |
| 22:48.22 | frostyfrog | xD Inception, I'll keep that in mind. |
| 22:48.53 | frostyfrog | reboots their computer, because... Updates! |
| 22:49.42 | joshh | also, another thing against salt, at least in the bay area, is that 99% of places use chef or puppet, so you're unlikely to get to keep using it if you switch jobs |
| 22:49.57 | joshh | that can change though of course |
| 22:51.14 | joshh | honestly though, i really don't miss chef's "lets do TDD" culture and chefspec etc |
| 22:53.14 | rsimpkins | joshh: For us, I don't anticipate salt will displace puppet for quite some time. However, there are some nice advantages to having both. It doesn't have to be one or the other, does it? |
| 22:53.25 | joshh | no |
| 22:54.21 | joshh | what are some examples of orchestration with salt you do |
| 22:55.10 | rsimpkins | joshh: We have connected it to our CMDB and alerting system. You can, for example, target all hosts that have a certain alert using grains. |
| 22:56.04 | joshh | that could be handy |
| 22:56.18 | rsimpkins | joshh: With so many systems of various types under our management, we needed a very expressive way to target systems. |
| 22:56.30 | joshh | we have puppet integrated with our cmdb but most orchestration is custom python or bash scripts that also integrate with it |
| 22:56.34 | rsimpkins | joshh: Salt has us pretty excited. |
| 22:56.48 | joshh | but not directly with monitoring, other than when hosts alerting correspond with pools in our cmdb |
| 22:57.34 | joshh | if we want to do something like "run a command on a subset of hosts", we have a bash thing for it |
| 22:57.47 | rsimpkins | Christer pushed a new feature upstream that supports nested grains. I <3 nested grains! |
| 22:58.09 | bregalad | rsimpkins: there was another guy working on that as well |
| 22:58.22 | bregalad | lots of nested grain improvements in the last several days |
| 22:58.53 | joshh | basicaly something like "root-ssh-list-async 'pool = redis and datacenter = sjc1' 'some command'" |
| 22:58.54 | rsimpkins | salt -G 'cmdb:attribute:code_release:*myreleaseglob*' <do something> |
| 22:59.05 | rsimpkins | bregalad: That's great. |
| 22:59.14 | bregalad | joshh: one of the things I like about salt is that I don't have to write bash to get things done :-) |
| 22:59.26 | joshh | yes, that would be nice |
| 22:59.39 | bregalad | I consider myself qualified to say this because half the codebase at my last job was bash |
| 22:59.43 | joshh | im also not a huge lover of capistrano/fabric/etc |
| 22:59.46 | bregalad | it was sad |
| 23:00.11 | jlp_znc | you should never write code for bash. you should write code for sh |
| 23:00.12 | joshh | chef/knife allows you to ssh into boxes, but its not already integrated with your cmdb and whatnot |
| 23:00.23 | jlp_znc | opines |
| 23:00.39 | joshh | why is that, if you expect to have bash everywhere? |
| 23:00.43 | bregalad | salt lets you work with complex systems and clusters and things by writing down data about it and then letting it handle all of the work for you in a well-defined manner |
| 23:00.46 | jlp_znc | you don't have bash everywhere |
| 23:00.51 | jlp_znc | not necessarily |
| 23:00.53 | joshh | i've never not had it |
| 23:01.04 | jlp_znc | and you don't necessarily have the same version of bash everywhere that you do have bash |
| 23:01.30 | joshh | youre likely to if you're using config management and the same base setup everywhere |
| 23:01.48 | joshh | but it might be differnet in enterprises with stuff from different epochs |
| 23:01.50 | jlp_znc | I will grant you that. you *can* have bash everywhere that you care about. |
| 23:01.59 | rsimpkins | One could argue, I think, that if your shell script is > 10 lines - use something else. :-D |
| 23:02.16 | bregalad | you know, you could use fish everywhere |
| 23:02.26 | jlp_znc | but if you are writing code with a desirable to be portable (i.e., to run outside of environments that you control) you should stick with sh. |
| 23:02.49 | jlp_znc | if you use fish (or zsh, or dash) everywhere, then you deserve what you get |
| 23:02.54 | rsimpkins | jlp_znc: or c, or perl, or python 2.6. :) |
| 23:03.06 | joshh | yes, i agree that if you're writing stuff that will be distributed outside your own world then portability matters |
| 23:03.20 | frostyfrog | Wait, get what? |
| 23:03.23 | jlp_znc | rsimpkins: exactly. if you are depending on package X at version Y, then you'd better be installing it. |
| 23:03.29 | frostyfrog | has zsh... |
| 23:03.44 | bregalad | frostyfrog: jlp_znc doesn't eat fish, apparently |
| 23:03.49 | jlp_znc | frostyfrog, no one thinks less of you. |
| 23:04.07 | rsimpkins | I need to run. Ta. |
| 23:04.08 | frostyfrog | Oh, I see. |
| 23:04.08 | jlp_znc | and no, I don't eat fish. I lost my taste for seafood when I moved away from biloxi mississippi. |
| 23:04.22 | jlp_znc | can't stand it now |
| 23:04.25 | joshh | ya, it would be like eating mexican in ireland |
| 23:04.29 | jlp_znc | I used to love it. |
| 23:04.41 | jlp_znc | now, even when I go somewhere with good seafood, I just can't eat it. |
| 23:05.35 | bregalad | reminds me of when I was in college, I hit what I call the 'ramen limit' |
| 23:05.46 | jlp_znc | heh heh, yeah, me too. |
| 23:05.47 | bregalad | that's about the same time I started eating way more produce |
| 23:05.54 | jlp_znc | my kids love ramen. I can't eat it. |
| 23:05.59 | jlp_znc | I love the smell, though. |
| 23:06.11 | joshh | i never went overboard with ramen |
| 23:06.21 | joshh | but i did with other bachelor/college food |
| 23:06.25 | jlp_znc | and I'll want it, and have a taste. then I'll say "well, that's enough of that." and go eat something else. |
| 23:06.34 | asoc | ramen is tons better when you use a rapid ramen cooker |
| 23:06.51 | joshh | i only like ramen from restaurants |
| 23:06.56 | joshh | but rarely get it |
| 23:08.59 | joshh | i could rotate mexican/indian/thai every night and not get tired of it, other than occasionally needing a burger or pizza or something |
| 23:09.27 | joshh | that's not all i like, but i can't imagine having a limit for it |
| 23:14.08 | joshh | also a salad is good every month or two |
| 23:21.55 | romanovic | one thing I wish I did more is breakfast with fruit. ever noticed that breakfast menus at dennys/jim's/ihop/dees/etc have virtually no fruit? |
| 23:22.53 | romanovic | you can order a small cup of mixed fruit (mixed fruit == 99% cubed canteloupe and honeydew + 1 strawberry sliver and a grape) |
| 23:29.27 | romanovic | I hit a 'pancake limit' years ago. Now I hit up Grand America's breakfast buffet every time I'm downtown at breakfast time, and it's only a couple dollars more than Denny's and similar |
| 23:30.37 | romanovic | load up on berries and protein rather than grains |
| 23:36.30 | goozbach | ANSIBLE!!!! |
| 23:36.40 | goozbach | jlp_znc knows how to summon me! |
| 23:36.49 | goozbach | like this for someone else |
| 23:36.57 | goozbach | PERL PERL PERL! |
| 23:41.23 | shalkie | goozbach: Are you trying to summon fozzmoo ? |
| 23:41.35 | shalkie | Or davido__ ? |
| 23:41.43 | fozzmoo | peers |
| 23:42.16 | *** join/#utah T4rku5 (~T4rku5@unaffiliated/shunkydave) |
| 23:43.06 | goozbach | shalkie: you saw how it works! |
| 23:43.11 | goozbach | fozzmoo!!! |
| 23:43.18 | fozzmoo | Yo. |
| 23:43.27 | bregalad | fozzilinimoo!!! |
| 23:43.32 | fozzmoo | is treading water in a large pool of video files. |
| 23:43.42 | goozbach | just showing how perl perl perl always summons you |
| 23:43.45 | goozbach | like 'ansible' does for me |
| 23:43.48 | fozzmoo | heh. |
