| 00:31.24 | d3c4f | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87JvCGMC514 |
| 01:01.52 | RyanE | nice thing about cutting your arm off with a lightsaber is it automatically cauterizes it. |
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| 02:03.36 | whimpy_jrs | Hi everyone. |
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| 03:50.43 | xsarah | hi all. |
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| 09:09.54 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds | OpenWest Conference May 7-9, 2015! http://www.openwest.org/ |
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| 12:50.55 | eightyeight | ~linux |
| 12:50.55 | infobot | How can I get Linux OS tell me the procedure for my HP laptop? |
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| 16:38.16 | bregalad | ~napoleon |
| 16:38.16 | infobot | Wait, I forgot the crystals. |
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| 17:04.40 | romanovic | https://imgur.com/gallery/Ddy1nPR |
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| 17:12.27 | programmerq | I regret not submitting a talk to openwest. |
| 17:12.37 | bregalad | me too |
| 17:12.47 | programmerq | last year I said I would, and then I didn't. |
| 17:12.49 | bregalad | although last year my presentation was awful |
| 17:13.29 | bregalad | ~kronk |
| 17:13.30 | infobot | Well, I had a great time; let's not wait till the next family reunion to get back together. |
| 17:19.25 | Tod-Work | ditto |
| 17:19.38 | Tod-Work | though "regret" might be too strong a word |
| 17:28.01 | Jayce^ | dont' worry, we all think less of you for it |
| 17:32.29 | Tod-Work | that's fine, some dude on facebook thinks I'm a judgemental smug asshole (he's correct there) for not wanting to be part of his classic games collector's club (that reasoning is not correct) |
| 17:32.56 | Tod-Work | at least with Jayce^ I'm being judged for things I really didn't do! |
| 17:35.15 | Jayce^ | levi: coworker here in TX just pulled out his new AKG's.. he's quite proud of them |
| 17:35.28 | Jayce^ | got them via massdrop |
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| 18:08.26 | romanovic | has anyone tried that visual studio code editor yet? |
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| 18:19.05 | romanovic | I find it significant that among consumer OSes, the one with the least amount of Open Source heritage has opened its development platform and tools to other OSes, and has done it before OS X |
| 18:36.58 | Q_Continuum | OSX is about a curated experience. |
| 18:37.07 | Q_Continuum | So I'm not surprised they don't branch out |
| 18:37.16 | Q_Continuum | curated & controlled. |
| 18:41.35 | eightyeight | what advantages would objective c bring to non-apple operating systems? |
| 18:41.44 | romanovic | yeah I'm less surprised that Apple hasn't done something similar with XCode. Porting tools to other platforms just makes it more convenient for developers to join your ecosystem, and maybe that's not a priority right now |
| 18:42.08 | romanovic | for Apple |
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| 18:47.11 | romanovic | I am more surprised that development for osx/ios is so tightly locked down and confined to OSX and Apple's tools, because that has little to do with the curated experience they are trying to deliver and everything to do with the money |
| 18:48.24 | romanovic | more surprised because the software industry seems to be trending in the opposite direction as far as development tools and communities that grow up around them |
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| 19:15.29 | levi | Jayce^: Which model? |
| 19:16.21 | levi | eightyeight: Ask the GNUStep guys. |
| 19:16.36 | eightyeight | they still exist? |
| 19:16.51 | levi | I dunno. |
| 19:16.52 | eightyeight | :) |
| 19:18.03 | levi | listens to the H2G2 radio program. |
| 19:21.06 | Tod-Work | levi, pretend for a moment that you, not me, have two speakers in a number of rooms, let's go with 8 for simplicity here. You want to, from a linux box, drive 2-4 streams at a time to one set of speakers per stream or broadcast to all of them. Where would you start? |
| 19:21.09 | Tod-Work | Asking for a friend >.> |
| 19:22.11 | RyanE | Tod-Work: Speakers are all wired back to a central location, or are only wired to somewhere within the room? |
| 19:22.34 | Tod-Work | central location with appropriate gauge wire |
| 19:22.45 | Tod-Work | 14/4 I guess would be ideal? |
| 19:22.50 | RyanE | Typical solution for this situation is a matrix switch and amplifiers |
| 19:22.55 | Tod-Work | (This is all in my head) |
| 19:23.02 | RyanE | 14/4 or even 16/4 is OK for ambient music |
| 19:23.28 | Tod-Work | I think 1 pair to each speaker |
| 19:23.34 | RyanE | I sure hope so. :) |
| 19:23.52 | levi | Yeah, if they're centrally wired, an audio matrix box and sufficient amplifier channels would be the standard solution. |
| 19:24.12 | Tod-Work | can you control that audio matrix box from the linux box? |
| 19:24.25 | RyanE | If it has a serial port and an available protocol, yes. |
| 19:24.55 | Tod-Work | Oh look, Control 4 has one I can't buy |
| 19:25.04 | fozzmoo | :) |
| 19:25.05 | levi | They do typically support some sort of automation, but it'll depend on the brand. |
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| 19:25.18 | RyanE | sure you can. You just have to buy it through an authorized dealer. :) |
| 19:25.33 | Tod-Work | I wonder if that comes up because it's a local search or they're just that well placed |
| 19:25.47 | levi | You can always make an audio matrix out of your linux box and sound cards. |
| 19:25.54 | Tod-Work | RyanE, yeah, I'm being a butt, I could more than likely find a dealer that would just sell me the box =c) |
| 19:26.08 | RyanE | just the box would do you no good, unfortunately. |
| 19:26.11 | Tod-Work | levi, 8 sound cards is a hell of a thing |
| 19:26.14 | RyanE | you'd need the box, a controller, etc. |
| 19:26.35 | levi | You don't need 8 sound cards, just a total of 16 channels. |
| 19:26.35 | RyanE | a few years ago, I could've gotten you setup, but Control4 discontinued the Friends and Family plan. |
| 19:26.40 | Tod-Work | yeah |
| 19:27.16 | Tod-Work | levi, true, and a Raspberry Pi could probably drive a couple 7.1 USB sound cards |
| 19:28.03 | levi | Don't use a Raspberry Pi; at least get an Asus Chromebox or something. |
| 19:28.15 | levi | RPi has terrible USB hardware. |
| 19:28.27 | Tod-Work | for ambient music? |
| 19:29.56 | levi | I'm not sure how successful you'd be with 16 channels of audio over USB on a RPi. It's not really designed for USB throughput. |
| 19:30.28 | Tod-Work | I suppose at 160 bucks it's not really a dealbreaker to put a chromebox on it |
| 19:30.32 | levi | A BBB would work better if you can't afford a $160 Chromebox. |
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| 19:30.58 | programmerq | I wonder how much usb bandwidth is actually required for usb audio. hmmm |
| 19:31.36 | levi | The RPi requires a lot more of the USB protocol to be done in software than devices with full USB support, though. |
| 19:31.51 | Tod-Work | As this is all theoretical in my head right now, "afford" isn't something I can put a number to. "Practical" is more appropriate |
| 19:32.38 | levi | To do the matrixing, you'll have to be copying audio buffers around as well, unless there's a fairly low-level method to do it in Linux that I'm not aware of. |
| 19:33.16 | asoc | Jackd audio stuff makes a lot of that really quite simple |
| 19:33.22 | levi | The cool way to do it would be via PoE powered AVB speakers. |
| 19:33.46 | fozzmoo | That would be cool. |
| 19:33.57 | asoc | I can't remember the program but there is one that you just draw lines between programs and audio outputs |
| 19:33.59 | levi | asoc: Indeed, but that still involves a lot of copying of buffers around, I think. And on a RPi that's got to service interrupts on a ton of USB audio devices... |
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| 19:35.04 | Tod-Work | looks up AVB in-ceiling speakers |
| 19:35.07 | levi | It's probably got sufficient horsepower to do it, but with all the indirection involved with Linux, you *might* be pushing your luck. |
| 19:35.16 | levi | Tod-Work: I don't think they exist yet. |
| 19:35.29 | Tod-Work | doesn't look like they do |
| 19:36.08 | Tod-Work | asoc, this would definitely be something driven by command-line at it's most "user-friendly" |
| 19:36.23 | Tod-Work | I might have a web server or something going, but not anything fancy |
| 19:36.29 | Tod-Work | REST or something |
| 19:36.32 | levi | You could make one fairly easily with an XMOS chip, a PoE Phy, an amplifier, and a codec. |
| 19:36.54 | levi | XMOS chips are *really* cool, if you haven't looked at them. |
| 19:37.11 | Tod-Work | levi, I should take you to lunch and pick your brain or something. (I'm just planning wiring right now, but why not dream, eh?) |
| 19:37.42 | levi | The biggest barrier to AVB adoption right now is AVB switch firmware. :( |
| 19:38.18 | asoc | Tod-Work: last time I did audio on linux I wasn't very good on the command line. A lot has changed since then. Maybe if I get some time this summer I will have to go play with it again |
| 19:39.07 | Tod-Work | amps are simple enough, PoE is simple enough, the XMOS MCUs seem simple enough so you could probably put it all on a PCB for cheap and run the speaker directly |
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| 19:39.27 | Tod-Work | running ethernet is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than running speaker wire, too |
| 19:40.38 | RyanE | Speaker wire with a matrix switch has the virtue of simplicity. If you have a radio or other analog input (Sonos, etc.), you just switch it to multiple zones, you don't have to encode, then decode it. |
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| 19:42.15 | Tod-Work | RyanE, and a hell of a lot more flexible for resale value >.> |
| 19:42.23 | RyanE | indeed. |
| 19:42.35 | levi | Hmm, Motu's 5-port AVB switch is ~$300. |
| 19:42.46 | RyanE | but you don't get much of a resale bump for *any* automation customizations. |
| 19:43.00 | RyanE | granite countertops will give you a bigger bang for the resale buck. |
| 19:45.03 | Tod-Work | yeah, it's more of avoiding a sale killer. "Hey, buy my house, it's got all these nice things AND this obscure self-made wiring crap all throughout!" as opposed to "It has speakers all wired to here for whatever you want!" |
| 19:46.50 | levi | Unfortunately, the only PoE AVB switches available right now that are up to spec on the standards are from Extreme Networks, and they aren't cheap. |
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| 19:48.02 | Tod-Work | AMX makes a pretty diverse line of stuff |
| 19:48.25 | RyanE | and is also Dealer-installed, as is Crestron, the 500lb gorilla in the HA market. |
| 19:48.31 | levi | AMX is Harman. |
| 19:48.52 | Tod-Work | yes, it is |
| 19:49.02 | Tod-Work | as are so many things |
| 19:49.21 | Tod-Work | They're like the disney of AV hardware |
| 19:52.32 | levi | Hmm, PoE adds quite a premium to switches. |
| 19:52.57 | Tod-Work | which is funny, given that it doesn't do much |
| 19:53.56 | Tod-Work | spec-wise there's almost nothing, and the nice-to-haves like "is this line pulling power" are easy circuitry that doesn't cost much. |
| 19:55.07 | levi | Well, in reality, there's a lot more hardware. We have a couple of Extreme Networks switches here for testing; the PoE one weighs a ton. |
| 19:55.41 | levi | Robust power supplies are neither cheap nor light, I guess. |
| 19:56.15 | Tod-Work | I'm not an expert on what's required weight/size-wise, just cost-wise (when digecor was making PoE hardware for their players) |
| 19:56.42 | Tod-Work | of course, digecor isn't great at power supplies either |
| 19:56.55 | Tod-Work | or more specifically their partners haven't been |
| 19:57.31 | Tod-Work | well that's been a fun lunch distraction. Guess i'll get back to it =cP |
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| 20:02.35 | youtah | NO |
| 20:03.21 | youtah | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:03.37 | fozzmoo | ~lart youtah |
| 20:03.37 | infobot | farts in youtah's general direction |
| 20:03.46 | fozzmoo | \o/ |
| 20:03.47 | youtah | ~whaleslap fozzmoo |
| 20:03.47 | infobot | ACTION beats fozzmoo upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 20:04.06 | youtah | Poor Hugh |
| 20:04.11 | youtah | ~Hugh++ |
| 20:04.14 | youtah | ~karma Hugh |
| 20:04.14 | infobot | hugh has karma of 2 |
| 20:04.17 | youtah | lol |
| 20:04.53 | youtah | So other mac uses, what's your favorite VNC client? |
| 20:05.01 | levi | Hmm, looks like an AVB-capable Extreme Networks 8-port POE managed switch is somewhere in the $560 neighborhood. |
| 20:05.19 | youtah | Chicken of the VNC? |
| 20:07.43 | Tod-Work | levi, that's not as bad as I was expecting. Not great, but not bad. But speakers. |
| 20:09.19 | youtah | Butt speakers? |
| 20:09.22 | youtah | Sounds painful |
| 20:09.35 | youtah | #BrownSound |
| 20:13.08 | youtah | or do you guys use the built in screensharing |
| 20:13.36 | youtah | because that sucks at full screen |
| 20:13.42 | youtah | imo |
| 20:13.43 | levi | Tod-Work: Yeah, this stuff is still priced for the Pro AV market rather than Consumer AV. |
| 20:13.53 | Tod-Work | youtah, when I was on a mac, I only ever used TightVNC so uh... *shrug* |
| 20:14.20 | youtah | Gracias |
| 20:14.44 | youtah | Real VNC, Tight VNC, Ultra VNC, Chicken of the VNC, .... so many |
| 20:14.51 | Tod-Work | mhmmm |
| 20:15.18 | Tod-Work | they'll all do basic VNC, but you won't want that. You pick one based on the extra-special-snowflake VNC they use |
| 20:15.26 | levi | On the bright side, if you've got a Mac made in the last few years with an ethernet port, it supports AVB natively. |
| 20:15.46 | Tod-Work | levi, so, not the new Macbook then? |
| 20:17.59 | Tod-Work | (that was not a serious question) |
| 20:22.38 | bregalad | dude, this is irc; serious questions only otherwise the topic trolls will get you |
| 20:22.59 | programmerq | why so serious? |
| 20:23.25 | bregalad | notifies the topic trolls of programmerq's presence |
| 20:29.08 | youtah | You serious clark? |
| 20:33.02 | youtah | http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/3227175/you-serious-clark-o.gif |
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| 20:50.23 | youtah | No |
| 20:56.48 | RyanE | no means no |
| 20:57.35 | Tod-Work | except when it implies ownership or relation to |
| 20:57.44 | Tod-Work | (japanese) |
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| 21:08.26 | RyanE | pretty sure the Judge won't take "no means no, except when it doesn't" as a reasonable excuse. :) |
| 21:09.29 | Tod-Work | in Japan? |
| 21:09.45 | RyanE | unless you're Big in Japan. |
| 21:09.57 | Tod-Work | I'm big everywhere but Texas |
| 21:10.06 | Tod-Work | then I'm kinda skinny |
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| 21:32.31 | Tod-Work | RyanE, are you still biking to work? How's that working out for you? |
| 21:33.03 | RyanE | I've never biked to work. I did some biking on the Murdock Canal Trail last year, and a little this year. Hoping to start up again soon. |
| 21:33.08 | RyanE | I have coworkers who do, though. |
| 21:34.00 | Tod-Work | Hmmm, I thought you were the one at the perl mongers meeting up in lehi that biked there |
| 21:34.06 | Tod-Work | I might be mis-remembering |
| 21:34.07 | RyanE | I biked there from home. |
| 21:34.12 | RyanE | but not to/from work. |
| 21:34.26 | RyanE | I live in Highland, so biking to Thanksgiving point is not that far. |
| 21:34.38 | Tod-Work | oh, that makes more sense, I thought you had biked there because you bike to work |
| 21:34.43 | RyanE | nope. |
| 21:34.58 | Tod-Work | Do you take Timp Highway? |
| 21:35.15 | Tod-Work | I'd be scared of impending doom biking that |
| 21:35.21 | RyanE | I take the Murdock Canal Trail most of that way. |
| 21:35.53 | RyanE | From right before 'the dip' by smiths. |
| 21:37.03 | RyanE | scary would be the West-side frontage road over the point of the mountain, but I've seen people bike that before. |
| 21:37.20 | Tod-Work | oh, I see that on google maps if I zoom in |
| 21:37.53 | Tod-Work | We'll live on the north side, but if a light gets put in I might let my kids cross to that if they're old enough |
| 21:37.56 | Tod-Work | that would work well |
| 21:38.09 | RyanE | north side of Timpanogos Highway? |
| 21:38.17 | Tod-Work | yeah |
| 21:38.36 | RyanE | How far west? |
| 21:38.48 | Tod-Work | the Edge development there |
| 21:38.52 | Tod-Work | orange sign |
| 21:39.14 | Tod-Work | so 500 W I guess |
| 21:40.18 | RyanE | Unfortunately the Murdock Canal Trail doesn't go straight through all the way. At the cross with Alpine Highway, you have to ride up a few blocks, then down through the Highland Glen park. |
| 21:40.25 | RyanE | (going east from your location). |
| 21:42.40 | Tod-Work | yeah, I was noticing that, there's a big hill down and then up right about there which will be "fun" but the road there isn't too bad to have a bit of a ride without the trail I think. I'll have to see. |
| 21:43.26 | RyanE | I usually ride the trail from right by Lone Peak HS all the way to Provo Canyon, then the Provo River Parkway trail to Vivian Park. |
| 21:43.35 | RyanE | (when I'm in shape, maybe in a month... :) |
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| 21:44.23 | RyanE | almost 40 mile round-trip, 3 hours. |
| 21:44.35 | Tod-Work | I consider it exercise to think about biking or running |
| 21:44.49 | Tod-Work | it takes so much out of you |
| 21:46.36 | levi | RyanE: The west side frontage over the point of the mountain is a lot less scary than the east side frontage there. |
| 21:46.40 | RyanE | I don't like the west side of the trail as much, not as many trees or greenage. |
| 21:46.57 | RyanE | levi: I never take the east side via car, so wouldn't know. |
| 21:47.05 | RyanE | but I'll take your word... either is scary. |
| 21:47.16 | RyanE | I wish during this construction they'd add a bike lane to the West side frontage. |
| 21:47.29 | levi | There are large gravel trucks on the east side, and they'll run you right off the road. |
| 21:47.58 | RyanE | true, the gravel pits are on that side, but the construction on the west side makes it fairly scary ATM, as well. |
| 21:48.26 | RyanE | but I'm not really a 'road biker' anyway. |
| 21:48.45 | levi | Yeah, my experience is mostly from a while ago when I worked at Linux Networx, where C7's building there is now. |
| 21:49.14 | levi | I'm not really a biker at all anymore. :( |
| 21:49.17 | Tod-Work | never understood why Linux Networx never took off |
| 21:49.35 | Tod-Work | granted I haven't looked too deeply, so it's little more than an idea to me |
| 21:49.56 | levi | Tod-Work: The market is oriented to established players with *deep* pockets. |
| 21:50.20 | Tod-Work | =c( |
| 21:50.23 | Tod-Work | That makes me sad |
| 21:50.51 | levi | When you get a contract to build a system, they typically agree to pay you *after* acceptance tests. |
| 21:51.53 | levi | And it's typically specced a year in advance, using parts that have only just been *announced* on Intel/AMD's roadmaps. |
| 21:52.16 | levi | And the acceptance criteria are based on the roadmap performance numbers. |
| 21:52.33 | levi | And many of the contracts have late penalties built in. |
| 21:52.56 | levi | So if Intel is late or their parts underperform, too bad! |
| 21:53.38 | Tod-Work | notes to never get into performance hardware |
| 21:54.13 | levi | So you've got to have the capital to purchase warehouseloads of these new parts as soon as they're announced and assemble them over the course of 6-8 months or so, then run them full-bore doing acceptance tests for a month or two. |
| 21:54.34 | levi | And at the end, the margins are not all that wonderful. |
| 21:55.22 | RyanE | notes to never get into anything where the margins are not all that wonderful. |
| 21:55.31 | Tod-Work | ~RyanE++ |
| 21:55.46 | RyanE | like any Home Automation that isn't dealer-installed. :P |
| 21:56.20 | levi | I mean, the whole point of Linux Networx was to undercut the margins of the established supercomputer makers, i.e. Cray, IBM, etc. |
| 21:57.47 | levi | And we certainly did, but it turns out that there's just not a lot of volume in the supercomputing business even if you can make it a bit cheaper. |
| 21:58.47 | levi | We really wanted to be selling *tons* of smaller systems, but apparently the market for those was not all that great either. |
| 22:00.15 | levi | To some extent there was a management problem, but that just made the tough market tougher. |
| 22:02.17 | levi | Paul Hudak, one of Haskell's creators, passed away yesterday. :( |
| 22:02.38 | Tod-Work | =c( |
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| 22:04.00 | levi | He was working on a book and associated curriculum that taught both music theory and Haskell. |
| 22:04.35 | levi | If that sounds interesting, there's a draft available for free: http://haskell.cs.yale.edu/euterpea/haskell-school-of-music/ |
| 22:17.12 | levi | "Microsoft Minecraft Mod Developer Pack for Visual Studio" |
| 22:18.32 | levi | Also, Microsoft "Visual Studio Code" for OS X, Linux, and Windows. |
| 22:37.55 | dumby | That actually does sound very interesting. I'm going to give what they have a read |
| 22:54.25 | bregalad | that reminds me of a book I'm going to write: "Goldberg Variations, Goldstone Bosons, Goldbach Conjecture" |
| 22:54.33 | bregalad | once I prove the Goldbach conjecture, that is |
| 22:56.10 | RyanE | Goldberg, Edsel, Beck. |
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| 23:36.15 | levi | Heh. |
| 23:36.22 | levi | What's the subtitle for that one? |
| 23:44.02 | bregalad | levi: which? |
| 23:44.27 | bregalad | I can't resolve all of the references in RyanE's book title |
| 23:46.42 | levi | Either. |
| 23:47.04 | levi | I assumed RyanE's was a reference to GEB:EGB. |
| 23:47.17 | bregalad | they found Majorana bosons in LHC last year or something |
| 23:47.27 | bregalad | mine too |
| 23:48.11 | bregalad | s/Majorana boson/Majorana fermion/ |
