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| 00:55.46 | fozzmoo | https://youtu.be/_Wf6tNqDk7o |
| 00:58.52 | fozzmoo | (That's tonight's PLUG meeting.) |
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| 02:00.17 | fozzmoo | jsmith: HEY! |
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| 04:04.21 | TodPunk | fozzmoo: that is a sexy as hell setup |
| 04:04.54 | TodPunk | As an aside, I love that I'm missing so many good topics at user groups because I'm packing up a house and painting it -_- |
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| 15:08.43 | bregalad | ~napoleon |
| 15:08.44 | infobot | Just listen to your heart. That's what I do. |
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| 15:17.11 | fozzmoo | ~lart youtah |
| 15:17.11 | infobot | shoves a crumpet down youtah's throat, happy now?! Huh? Want some JAM with that? |
| 15:18.00 | bregalad | ~horse fozzmoo |
| 15:18.00 | infobot | http://fozzmoo.horse/ |
| 15:23.42 | youtah | you and your horse fetishes... |
| 15:24.10 | youtah | but I won't judge |
| 15:24.13 | youtah | ;) |
| 15:27.19 | unum | I really should buy a .ninja domain |
| 15:27.26 | youtah | ^ |
| 15:27.35 | unum | unum@unum.ninja |
| 15:27.39 | youtah | I should get HotSexy.Ninja |
| 15:27.40 | unum | how's that for an email address |
| 15:27.45 | youtah | for my KG7HSN |
| 15:28.08 | youtah | That looks like a scary email. I'd be scared |
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| 15:37.47 | asoc | They were on sale recently. magmu was looking at them |
| 15:38.08 | asoc | He was saying they were down to 7 dollars in some places |
| 15:38.22 | asoc | which is tons better than the 25 I paid for mine when they were new |
| 15:44.30 | bregalad | it will probably be $100 by next year |
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| 15:58.44 | eightyeight | debian 8 to be possibly released this saturady: https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2015/03/msg00016.html |
| 16:00.56 | unum | I better make sure I'm not pointing to stable in my sources.list |
| 16:01.06 | unum | I think I've accidently upgraded this server twice now |
| 16:01.26 | unum | oops still pointing to stable |
| 16:01.34 | unum | maybe I should just upgrade on purpose.... |
| 16:03.22 | eightyeight | heh |
| 16:03.36 | eightyeight | i'm pointing to wheezy |
| 16:03.58 | eightyeight | i'll probably upgrade monday, when i can physically babysit it |
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| 16:05.10 | eightyeight | i'm excited for the new versions of quemu and glusterfs |
| 16:05.34 | eightyeight | i can finally use VirtIORNG, rather than fill the entropy pools from an entropy server |
| 16:05.56 | eightyeight | and glusterfs will have self-healing, and better handling for split brain mode |
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| 16:54.57 | jlp_znc | eightyeight: have you looked at Ceph? |
| 16:55.04 | eightyeight | a bit |
| 16:59.11 | jlp_znc | it's pretty slick. essentially, you have a programmatic mapping of the block you want to the server(s) it lives on so you don't have to ask a broker every time you want to find a block. |
| 16:59.59 | jlp_znc | when the structure of the cluster changes materially (i.e., you add a new server, remove a server, etc.) you generate a new mapping and everything self migrates. |
| 17:00.25 | jlp_znc | you can set minimum requirements like every block has to be on at least two physical machines or on N separate networks. |
| 17:00.27 | eightyeight | yeah. i'm familiar with the architecture |
| 17:00.45 | jlp_znc | what are the advantages of glusterfs that you see? |
| 17:00.50 | eightyeight | i chose glusterfs years ago, and have been using it since, largely because at the time, ceph was still very alpha |
| 17:01.03 | jlp_znc | ahh. inertia. good advantage. :-) |
| 17:01.17 | eightyeight | the userspace tools to glusterfs are really very handy too |
| 17:01.39 | eightyeight | but the architecture with ceph is absolutely superior |
| 17:01.42 | jlp_znc | I'm actually serious that inertia is a good advantage. you know the tools already. no learning curve. |
| 17:02.18 | eightyeight | currently, i'm doing glusterfs+zfs to store kvm images over 2 nodes |
| 17:02.32 | eightyeight | i am planning on migrating to ceph+btrfs eventually though |
| 17:02.48 | eightyeight | so i have a 3-node test cluster that i've been playing with. but lack a lot of time to commit to it |
| 17:03.32 | jlp_znc | I like that KVM knows how to talk to Ceph directly, too. |
| 17:03.42 | eightyeight | indeed |
| 17:03.43 | jlp_znc | btrfs, ehh? |
| 17:04.04 | jlp_znc | "do you like butter?" "yes, you do." |
| 17:04.10 | eightyeight | i like native zfs with the linux kernel, but the future is btrfs, i think |
| 17:04.26 | jlp_znc | sorry, the old children's book "Tootle" just popped into my head. one of my sons really loved that book. |
| 17:04.33 | eightyeight | heh |
| 17:05.33 | jlp_znc | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/988123.Tootle |
| 17:06.12 | eightyeight | a little golden book |
| 17:06.15 | eightyeight | nice |
| 17:06.43 | jlp_znc | ZFS is pretty awesome. what do you like about btrfs, though? I haven't really looked at it in a couple of years. |
| 17:07.10 | eightyeight | only that it's native mainline, so i don't have to keep a separate repo around |
| 17:07.17 | jlp_znc | gotcha. |
| 17:07.31 | jlp_znc | as I recall, it has some pretty slick features, too. |
| 17:07.31 | eightyeight | although, debian 9 may very well have ZoL packages |
| 17:08.04 | eightyeight | http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=ZFS-Debian-Libdvdcss-Packages |
| 17:08.59 | jlp_znc | nice. libdvdcss, too. |
| 17:09.06 | eightyeight | yeah |
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| 17:09.33 | eightyeight | it would be win to have the debian installer install a zfs root |
| 17:09.38 | eightyeight | that could be a game changer |
| 17:10.01 | jlp_znc | that would be totally cool. |
| 17:10.21 | jlp_znc | I suspect ZFS would get a lot of use if that were to happen. |
| 17:10.46 | eightyeight | indeed |
| 17:10.50 | jlp_znc | but debian 9... that's, what, a year out? |
| 17:10.53 | jlp_znc | or more? |
| 17:11.27 | eightyeight | 2+ |
| 17:11.37 | eightyeight | but it will be in unstable first |
| 17:11.41 | eightyeight | and the dev installer |
| 17:13.02 | eightyeight | i am happy with my gluster+zfs setup though (replicated over infiniband, of all things. heh) |
| 17:13.08 | eightyeight | BECAUSE I CAN |
| 17:13.47 | jlp_znc | infiniband... the only people I know who were using that around here were linux networx |
| 17:13.50 | eightyeight | the one time glusterfs got caught in split brain, i turned to a good recent zfs snapshot, restored the kvm image file, and moved on |
| 17:14.10 | jlp_znc | yeah, zfs snapshots are awesome. |
| 17:14.22 | eightyeight | i only have inifinhost III hardware. and it's not getting me anything special, except the lower latency, which is in reality, negligable |
| 17:14.46 | eightyeight | i just did it for the experience with IB stuff |
| 17:14.48 | eightyeight | shrug |
| 17:15.02 | eightyeight | i do like that glusterfs can replicate over RDMA with a TCP fall back |
| 17:16.10 | eightyeight | but gigabit ethernet is fine too. i don't need the lower latencies or theoretical throughput (which i won't get with 4x1TB 7200 RPM platters) |
| 17:16.55 | eightyeight | it was just fun building the setup, and over architecting |
| 17:16.58 | eightyeight | heh |
| 17:20.22 | jlp_znc | always fun to over architect. "my home network includes redundant switches and power supplies on all boxes, fed from different legs and separate UPSes, because it's really important that I be able to look at my pictures whenever I want to regardless of if something breaks." |
| 17:20.45 | jlp_znc | (not really) |
| 17:21.27 | eightyeight | heh |
| 17:22.55 | eightyeight | (re: the little golden books) cool: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/The_Golden_Book_Gown_by_Ryan_Jude_Novelline.jpg |
| 17:29.03 | jlp_znc | I was just reading some of the reviews of Tootle on goodreads. Wow. Some people really hate the book. |
| 17:29.47 | eightyeight | heh |
| 17:29.56 | eightyeight | grew up on little golden books as a kid |
| 17:30.14 | jlp_znc | people are reading into it things like "you *must* conform or we will force you to" and crap like that. |
| 17:30.35 | jlp_znc | why can't they just read it as a cute story about a little train that wanted something badly and needed help to realize his goals? |
| 17:32.47 | jlp_znc | for example: "If you want to teach your children to conform to the cowardly whims of group think, to embrace conformity, and to 'stay on the tracks' outlined by authority, this is the book to give them." |
| 17:33.18 | jlp_znc | this reviewer has a problem, I think, that doesn't extend to the book itself. |
| 17:33.27 | RyanE | They fail to mention that if trains don't "stay on the tracks", they're pretty useless. |
| 17:33.54 | jlp_znc | let me give you a summary of the book: Tootle is a train engine. He really wants to be a "flyer" and pull a fast passenger train. |
| 17:34.13 | jlp_znc | He chooses to go to the Lower Trainswitch School for Engines to learn how to be a flyer. |
| 17:34.57 | jlp_znc | He masters each lesson, including "Always stop for a red flag waving." (some idiot reviewers think that this means the book is anti-communist. I guess they never heard of red being a symbol for "stop". |
| 17:35.23 | jlp_znc | The lesson Tootle just doesn't get is "Stay on the rails, no matter what." |
| 17:35.42 | jlp_znc | Now, if I were a train engine, and I didn't stay on the rails, I wouldn't be very good at my job, would I? |
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| 17:36.07 | jlp_znc | Tootle, on the other hand, discovers that he can just hop off the rails and frolic through the meadow, chasing butterflys and smelling the buttercups. |
| 17:36.48 | jlp_znc | Bill, one of the instructors, catches him at this and thinks of a plan to help Tootle stop doing this destructive behavior (destructive to his own personal goals of being a flyer). |
| 17:37.35 | jlp_znc | He enlists the towns people to hide in the meadow, all with red flags. When Tootle hops off the rails to frolic in the meadow, up pops a town person with a red flag. Of course, Tootle knows he must stop for a red flag waving as that's a critical safety rule! |
| 17:38.14 | jlp_znc | Everywhere he turns, he realizes that there is a red flag waving. Frustrated, he looks back to the rails, where he sees Bill waving a GREEN flag. (no mention of the green colored flag by all the hateful reviewers) |
| 17:38.31 | RyanE | the book is very pro-leprecaun. |
| 17:38.43 | jlp_znc | Tootle realizes the errors of his ways and returns to the rails. He continues to learn and soom becomes the fastest flyer on the line. Even faster than "old 300!" |
| 17:38.56 | jlp_znc | s/soom/soon/ |
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| 17:39.43 | jlp_znc | Now. I would like a casual survey of the channel. How many people find the message of the story as I have described it as being "anti-freedom" or "McCarthy-ish"? |
| 17:40.41 | RyanE | no, sounds like a thriller. |
| 17:40.45 | jlp_znc | I suspect these same reviewers are in favor of their children staying out after curfew, defacing private property with grafitti, etc? |
| 17:41.07 | pashdown | im in favor of trains riding off rails because that would be awesome |
| 17:41.12 | RyanE | they apparently think their kids lives should go off the rails, like theirs have. |
| 17:41.22 | jlp_znc | and the one reviewer who took offense to the fact that the population of Lower Trainswitch being all white... sheesh. |
| 17:41.25 | RyanE | trains off of rails are called 'semis'. |
| 17:41.37 | pashdown | even semis have troubles in meadows |
| 17:41.41 | RyanE | true |
| 17:41.42 | jlp_znc | indeed |
| 17:41.52 | RyanE | they don't frolic very often, probably for that reason. |
| 17:41.54 | jlp_znc | now, bull dozers... they don't have trouble in meadows. |
| 17:42.03 | RyanE | and they love frolicking |
| 17:42.04 | jlp_znc | they eat them for breakfast! |
| 17:48.11 | bregalad | chooses to interpret this conversation literally |
| 17:50.19 | unum | sounds more like a lesson about dealing with ADHD through non pharmacutical methods |
| 17:50.30 | unum | so I'd say it's a message AGAINST capatilism |
| 17:50.34 | *** join/#utah Nemus (~Nemus@unaffiliated/nemus) |
| 17:50.49 | unum | especially since all those people helped him for free |
| 18:25.46 | jlp_znc | https://plus.google.com/u/0/106684394261860468438/posts/h6Ud5nXdsXD <- Cloud to Butt Plus plugin |
| 18:26.18 | jlp_znc | automatically replaces the phrase "the cloud" with "my butt" as well as "cloud" with "butt" in certain contexts. |
| 18:26.24 | jlp_znc | I need this. |
| 18:30.36 | jlp_znc | I can just imagine the joy of looking at all of our "Cloud Sites" documents with this plugin installed. |
| 18:31.37 | jlp_znc | I wonder if it could be made to change the cloud graphic (you know, the infamous 'internet' cloud) into a butt picture, too. A cartoon butt, of course. |
| 18:34.01 | eightyeight | not goatse? |
| 18:34.30 | jlp_znc | uh, no. |
| 18:34.57 | eightyeight | :) |
| 18:36.36 | bregalad | jlp_znc: you're only just now finding out about that? :) |
| 18:37.03 | jlp_znc | yeah... friend of mine just posted it today on g+. I hadn't heard of it before. |
| 18:37.48 | bregalad | I think that concept could be generalized to all buzzwordery |
| 18:38.03 | jlp_znc | and it should be! |
| 18:39.13 | bregalad | *aas --> "let's face it, we're all too lazy to do things the right way, so we'll pretend that professional services and some clunky APIs can do all things", for example |
| 18:39.34 | eightyeight | SSaS |
| 18:41.06 | bregalad | or more simply and more better like: *aas --> 'google pwnz AYB' |
| 18:43.53 | romanovic | SaaS can be a great excuse. It's no longer "I'm waiting for my project to compile", it's "I'm roadblocked by <3rd party saas> developers, waiting for them to address my issue" |
| 19:16.20 | jlp_znc | bregalad: AYB? All Your Base? |
| 19:16.30 | *** join/#utah weedpatch2 (~weedpatch@50-200-100-242-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 19:16.51 | jlp_znc | All your bits? |
| 19:17.00 | jlp_znc | All your bananas? |
| 19:17.53 | eightyeight | Are you busy? |
| 19:17.58 | eightyeight | Are you bored? |
| 19:23.45 | jlp_znc | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail#/media/File:Mig-29s_intercepeted_by_F-15s_-_DF-ST-90-05759.jpg gorgeous contrail shot |
| 19:26.47 | Jayce^ | wishes he had time to troll the Chemtrail topic... |
| 19:27.11 | jlp_znc | is eating lunch |
| 19:34.06 | *** join/#utah tristanbob_h (~Tristan@c-98-202-244-20.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:35.02 | eightyeight | i've been on a commercial flight, where the pilots made a sudden altitude adjustment |
| 19:35.27 | eightyeight | outside the window, you could see a different flight pass us beneath us |
| 19:35.46 | jlp_znc | wheee! |
| 19:37.00 | jlp_znc | in general, that isn't supposedf to be necessary. flights in different directions are kept at specific well separated altitudes |
| 19:37.15 | eightyeight | indeed |
| 19:37.43 | jlp_znc | but thats why they put windows on those things |
| 19:37.47 | eightyeight | i don't know how that mixup happened, but the pilot did get on the intercom to apologize |
| 19:38.39 | jlp_znc | I can imagine that one: "uh, ladies and gentlemen, from the flight deck, uh, uh, we want to apologize for the sudden climb a few minutes ago, uh, um, we needed to avoid some traffic in the area." |
| 19:39.44 | bregalad | that's a standard procedure, depending on how the craft approach each other, one is supposed to go up and the other down |
| 19:43.53 | eightyeight | it was more like "This is the captian. We apologize for the altitude adjustment. Air traffic control has adjusted our altitude to (blah) thousand feet. We'll be climbing back down shortly." |
| 19:44.05 | eightyeight | i just happened to be looking out the window when i happened |
| 19:44.09 | RyanE | Just like when you go down the stairs, you're supposed to go on the right, but when you go up, you should go on the left. :) |
| 19:44.48 | bregalad | I generally stay to the left (in egocentric coordinates) |
| 19:44.51 | jlp_znc | whose left? |
| 19:44.54 | eightyeight | speaking of which, it would be great if the UTA put "Stand right. Walk left" signs by the escalators |
| 19:45.09 | jlp_znc | I just barge through the middle. |
| 19:45.24 | jlp_znc | where does UTA have escalators? |
| 19:45.32 | eightyeight | north temple frontrunner station |
| 19:45.37 | jlp_znc | huh |
| 19:45.38 | RyanE | on the newer buses. :) |
| 19:46.14 | jlp_znc | I think UTA should have some kind of sign that says something like "get out of the way, idiots, so the people already on the train can get off... that way there will be room for you to get on!" |
| 19:46.30 | RyanE | or that should be the announcement on Trax. |
| 19:46.35 | RyanE | at every station |
| 19:46.38 | eightyeight | you think people would learn with standard elevators |
| 19:46.38 | jlp_znc | caltrain should have had that, too. |
| 19:47.22 | eightyeight | "oh look! a whole ton of people. crammed in an elevator. wishing to get off. imma stand right in front of the door, and try to get on before they can get off. wheee!" |
| 19:47.39 | jlp_znc | I had that happen at the library a couple weeks ago |
| 19:48.10 | dumby | wait, I thought everyone else on public transport was a hologram and I'm the only real person that uses it? |
| 19:48.20 | jlp_znc | no, that's the freeway |
| 19:48.27 | dumby | THEN WHO WAS CAR?!? |
| 19:48.52 | eightyeight | it's also obnoxious that north temple isn't part of the free fare zone |
| 19:49.03 | eightyeight | not that UTA police is actually checking passes, or anything |
| 19:49.30 | eightyeight | i mean, really: http://www.rideuta.com/uploads/FreeFareZone_Aug2014large.jpg |
| 19:50.10 | eightyeight | make two stops the exception for SL central, but not north temple |
| 19:50.14 | Q_Continuum | jlp_znc: Just need an automatic cattle prod if you get too close to the doors before folks have stopped moving 'out' of train. |
| 19:50.30 | Q_Continuum | jlp_znc: If they stop working after a week it won't matter, most will have been trained :-D |
| 19:50.54 | eightyeight | it's funny though. people don't seem to get their stuff ready until the train has actually stopped |
| 19:51.11 | eightyeight | so, when passengers are actually getting on, they're miffed they have to fight foot traffic getting off |
| 19:51.34 | eightyeight | that's always fun |
| 19:51.36 | eightyeight | heh |
| 19:54.21 | bregalad | my favorite is that I'll stand in the middle of the station and people coming off the train will run into me as if I was supposed to get out of their way |
| 19:55.43 | eightyeight | this is probably an illogical fear, but i'll find places on the station, where i cannot be easily pulled/pushed into an oncoming train when it's approaching the station |
| 19:55.52 | eightyeight | i don't stand in the open |
| 19:55.59 | eightyeight | usually |
| 19:56.03 | jlp_znc | me neither. |
| 19:56.18 | jlp_znc | I'll either stay seated if I managed to get a bench, or stand near a rail or post. |
| 19:56.29 | eightyeight | same |
| 19:56.41 | eightyeight | i've never seen it, and i've ridden a ton of public transit trains |
| 19:56.41 | jlp_znc | I think it's easier for people to see the giant post holding up the roof over the benches rather than seeing the short dude standing there with the black cap on his head. |
| 19:56.42 | bregalad | that's why I hate the lehi station, they couldn't have made it 2 metres wider |
| 19:56.55 | eightyeight | but i still avoid it as much as a i can |
| 19:57.32 | jlp_znc | I like the cattle prod idea, but I'd probably get in trouble. |
| 19:57.46 | jlp_znc | I do carry a walking stick, though. waving it about like a crazy person is slightly effective. |
| 19:57.47 | Q_Continuum | eightyeight: As counters/responses to (probably) illogical fears go, I'd say its pretty harmless :-D |
| 19:57.57 | Q_Continuum | You're not going around avoiding the train or running in at the last second |
| 19:58.19 | eightyeight | i recognize the risks. i'm just all about minimizing them |
| 19:58.52 | jlp_znc | there are risks all around us. the terrorists want us to irrationally magnify the perceived magnitude of those risks. |
| 19:59.07 | jlp_znc | when we hide in our houses, the terrorists have won! |
| 19:59.20 | jlp_znc | we must go out, we must challenge our risks. |
| 19:59.29 | Jayce^ | but I want to stay in my house... |
| 19:59.36 | jlp_znc | yeah |
| 19:59.38 | jlp_znc | there is that. |
| 19:59.53 | jlp_znc | it's like when you were a kid and your parents grounded you "to your room" |
| 20:00.03 | jlp_znc | which was where you wanted to be in the first place. |
| 20:00.11 | Jayce^ | ^^ |
| 20:00.18 | Jayce^ | Bill Cosby reference FTW |
| 20:00.20 | jlp_znc | comfy bed if you want to take a nap. book shelf full of reading material. |
| 20:01.12 | jlp_znc | makes the journey to mecca, also known as the soda fountain in the break room. |
| 20:01.17 | *** join/#utah josephscott (~josephsco@192.0.125.251) |
| 20:02.43 | eightyeight | and chocolate cake |
| 20:02.47 | eightyeight | WITH GRAPEFRUIT JUICE |
| 20:02.48 | Jayce^ | for breakfast |
| 20:04.39 | jlp_znc | "dad is great... give us the chocolate cake!" |
| 20:05.32 | eightyeight | I've always heard about people having a conniption, but I've never seen one. |
| 20:09.08 | jlp_znc | count yourself lucky |
| 20:10.11 | jlp_znc | here's a muscial example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG3yGdQYwqg |
| 20:10.27 | *** join/#utah youtah (~youtah@204.15.85.223) |
| 20:13.56 | eightyeight | ooo.... kay |
| 20:15.41 | Jayce^ | aaaand not clicking on that during an interview.... |
| 20:16.10 | jlp_znc | classic 80s |
| 20:16.17 | Jayce^ | funny interviewing for certain positions and the candidates have /only/ used git, never cvs or svn even... |
| 20:16.39 | jlp_znc | well, git is okay, I guess. |
| 20:16.52 | Jayce^ | is feeling old after a few of these |
| 20:17.50 | jlp_znc | good interview question for a "senior developer": sccs, rcs, cvs, svn, mercurial, git. compare and contrast. |
| 20:18.18 | jlp_znc | anyone who thinks they are "senior" should at least know the difference between sccs and rcs, right? |
| 20:18.33 | bregalad | I would never turn away someone who doesn't know anything about cvs and before |
| 20:18.33 | Jayce^ | :) |
| 20:18.49 | fozzmoo | I remember knowing that... a. long. time. ago. |
| 20:18.55 | eightyeight | i recall using Baz, before canonical's bazaar |
| 20:18.58 | eightyeight | it was so bad |
| 20:18.58 | Jayce^ | not a "turn away" question, a fill in the background profile question |
| 20:19.04 | jlp_znc | baz! |
| 20:19.05 | Tod-Work | jlp_znc, I don't know what either of those are |
| 20:19.15 | eightyeight | "what the baz?!" became my catch phrase for things gone wrong |
| 20:19.21 | bregalad | lol |
| 20:19.30 | jlp_znc | Tod-Work: ever use "Unix"? (not linux) |
| 20:19.31 | Tod-Work | I think CVS is the limit of "required" in any definition |
| 20:19.42 | Tod-Work | jlp_znc, solaris was as close as I ever touched |
| 20:20.23 | Tod-Work | so yes, but it depends on your definition =cP |
| 20:20.27 | jlp_znc | I think solaris might have had both rcs and sccs.... at least, sunos did. there was a command called "what" that would print out the version info from files by looking for it's signature. |
| 20:21.05 | jlp_znc | basically, sccs and rcs are local (non-networked) single user version control systems. sccs was the earliest one used on Unix. rcs came a bit later and resolved some of the problems that sccs had. |
| 20:21.09 | Tod-Work | rcs was created the year I was born |
| 20:21.21 | Tod-Work | I'm going to feel just fine not knowing about it |
| 20:21.22 | jlp_znc | sccs would store the original version of the file and then store diffs to get to the current revision. |
| 20:21.34 | jlp_znc | rcs would store the current version and diffs to get to previous revisions. |
| 20:21.50 | jlp_znc | so checking out something with a lot of history took a long time with sccs, not so long with rcs. |
| 20:22.00 | Tod-Work | and then CVS obsoleted them |
| 20:22.09 | jlp_znc | rcs also had branches. |
| 20:22.12 | Tod-Work | and you're expecting senior engineers to know this |
| 20:22.23 | Tod-Work | let's talk about Forth |
| 20:22.29 | jlp_znc | cvs was a direct spin off from rcs, adding the concept about a network repository. |
| 20:22.33 | Tod-Work | at least it's still relevant =cP |
| 20:22.47 | jlp_znc | it maintained the same versioning syntax and branching capability. |
| 20:23.13 | jlp_znc | but there were still independent versions for each file. you used tags to identify specific release points. |
| 20:23.15 | Tod-Work | My current job still has a CVS repo |
| 20:23.50 | jlp_znc | svn changed all that with the concept of a single version number for the entire project. when you checked out a specific version, you got all the files at the change level that they were at when that version was laid down. much better. |
| 20:24.14 | *** join/#utah kendsnyder (~Adium@65-130-29-203.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 20:24.31 | jlp_znc | and yeah, I would expect a senior config management person to at least know about sccs and rcs. if they don't, then they're probably not senior enough. |
| 20:24.58 | jlp_znc | they wouldn't necessarily have to know all the details, but they should at least have heard of them. |
| 20:25.15 | Tod-Work | too many acronyms now |
| 20:25.29 | Tod-Work | sccs just makes me think of Yet Another CSS Compiler |
| 20:25.34 | jlp_znc | sccs == source code control system, rcs == revision control system |
| 20:25.38 | Tod-Work | yes |
| 20:25.46 | Tod-Work | looked them up, actaully |
| 20:25.52 | Tod-Work | *actually |
| 20:26.29 | Tod-Work | I started coding in '89, but didn't learn about version control until '92, and even then it was CVS |
| 20:26.56 | Tod-Work | I didn't use either of them, to be honest |
| 20:27.47 | jlp_znc | you young whipper snapper! |
| 20:27.56 | Tod-Work | I know, right? |
| 20:27.59 | jlp_znc | :-) |
| 20:28.06 | Tod-Work | but I can still program in Forth! |
| 20:28.18 | jlp_znc | how about prolog? |
| 20:28.29 | jlp_znc | or APL? now there's a fun one. |
| 20:28.30 | Tod-Work | My COBOL is a bit rusty, I can do FORTRAN, but not Prolog |
| 20:28.54 | Tod-Work | not APL, but my friend does oK (a javascript compiled version of K) |
| 20:29.10 | Tod-Work | I don't have much of a use case for it, but it's fun to play with in the browser every now and then |
| 20:29.48 | jlp_znc | if you ever need to work with matrices, APL is amazing. |
| 20:30.00 | jalbretsen | yes person troubleshooting ColdFusion on the phone, when we say you need to have TLS enabled, that means turn it off. *facepalm* |
| 20:30.07 | jlp_znc | and who doesn't need to work with matrices? |
| 20:30.15 | Tod-Work | <--- |
| 20:30.21 | jlp_znc | chuckles |
| 20:30.41 | jlp_znc | jalbretsen: that's the new definition of "enabled" |
| 20:30.46 | Tod-Work | Until Postgres adds a plK plugin, I guess |
| 20:30.57 | jlp_znc | that would be bad ass! |
| 20:31.01 | Tod-Work | jalbretsen, it's ColdFusion. They have already lost. |
| 20:31.41 | jlp_znc | by "enabled", he thought you meant it had to be, you know, told that it was good and happy. or something. |
| 20:31.54 | jlp_znc | oh, that it had control over itself. yeah |
| 20:31.59 | jlp_znc | something like that. |
| 20:32.22 | jlp_znc | and if it has the switch right there, then it must be enabled, right? it can choose to turn that switch on or off at will! |
| 21:00.36 | eightyeight | great. now i'm listening to julie brown on rdio |
| 21:00.39 | eightyeight | thx jlp_znc |
| 21:00.50 | jlp_znc | any time |
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| 21:44.31 | unum | start a fight |
| 21:44.39 | unum | starts a fight |
| 21:46.15 | jlp_znc | emacs vs vi... ready... FIGHT! |
| 21:46.44 | unum | I thought about starting that one but I don't know enough about emacs |
| 21:47.07 | unum | I could probably come up with some insults for fedora |
| 21:47.28 | jlp_znc | well, emacs is obviously better than vi |
| 21:47.48 | unum | well it does have ctl-alt-macro-butterfly which vi doesn't have |
| 21:48.10 | jlp_znc | you can implement vi *in* emacs |
| 21:48.12 | RyanE | nothing better than a power outage at work. |
| 21:48.23 | RyanE | ok, maybe *some* things, but not many. :) |
| 21:54.44 | bregalad | almost anything is better than vi |
| 21:55.07 | bregalad | if you have the choice between vi and vim you should definitely use vim :-) |
| 21:55.23 | jlp_znc | to be sure. vim >> vi |
| 21:56.42 | bregalad | although emacs is a great editor too |
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