IRC log for #utah on 20150320

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01:21.47RyanEI ended up with awesomewm on Ubuntu.
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14:53.34shalkieI got hit up the other day by a recruiter looking to put people into a job for a company in Pleasant Grove.
14:53.42shalkieDoes anyone know which company that might be?
14:54.18shalkieThis was a contract to hire position and had a screwey 12 hour shift 3 day work week.
14:55.06Migsgoing to try to contact the company directly?
14:55.29Jayce^ewww
14:55.44MigsI'm not young enough to handle 12 hour shifts
14:55.58shalkieMigs: Unlikely. I was just curious who it was. Pleasant grove is a bit far for me to commute.
14:56.16shalkienods in agreement
14:56.24Jayce^you know you want to move :-p
14:56.26shalkieTo both ewww and getting to old for 12 hour shifts.
14:56.59shalkieBut Jayce^ that would take me away from Maddox. ;-P
14:58.36MigsI tell recruiters now that if it's not within 10 minutes of me, I need to be able telecommute at least 90% of the time. Otherwise, no deal.
14:59.08shalkieAre there any cities in Utah county that are actually supportive of Utopia? Right now my city is very supportive of it.
14:59.18shalkiehugs the fiber tightly.
14:59.40programmerqshalkie: out here in eaglemountain, we have directcommunications.
14:59.49programmerqnot utopia, but I have 250 down 100 up.
15:00.00Migsout here in roy, nobody's even heard of fiber
15:00.23shalkieMigs: The moment I mentioned that I would like to telecommute he seemed to get sad and lonely.
15:00.46unumwe have UTOPIA with a century link fttp back up
15:00.56shalkieAlso not true, they heard of fiber in context of "Crazy things layton does..."
15:00.59RyanEIn Highland, fiber means eat more roughage.
15:01.27fozzmoo:)
15:01.38shalkieprogrammerq: When I was house hunting I remember seeing that the city had a deal with a fiber company. It seemed a reasonable option.
15:03.17Migshaha, poor fella
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15:07.00Jayce^programmerq: nice, I'm still on the 70/40.. way cheaper
15:08.02programmerqJayce^: even with the newer pricing?
15:08.27Jayce^yeah, half the price
15:08.36Jayce^while 250 would be way nice, $50 is a difference
15:09.11programmerqsince I work from home, paying $110/month for internet is definitely worth it
15:09.34programmerqespecially since it is fairly common for me to download isos, vagrant boxes, and docker images quite often.
15:09.35Jayce^yeah
15:10.06programmerqplus, it's just fun as heck maxing out my internet connection with usenet.
15:10.08Jayce^I've waved on paying $20 more for the 150 bump, or else $10 for the symmetric + static IP
15:10.16Jayce^yes, usenet is nice
15:10.26Jayce^where do you peak on your download with them?
15:10.48Jayce^usenet, I'm usually capping at 4.7MB/s
15:10.53Jayce^or thereabouts
15:11.30programmerqwell, to be honest, I had my nzb downloader running on some old hardware that only had a 100 base-t interface.
15:11.38programmerqso I was maxing that out. :/
15:11.53fozzmooWow. I pay $55/mo and I get about 75Mbps symmetrical.
15:12.09shalkieI was excited that I could get 1gb service but I have found 100mb to reasonable enough that I can't warrant the price bump.
15:12.14Jayce^yeah, that would be a problem
15:12.36programmerqI'm bummed that directcom doesn't offer any upload speed on any plan over 100mbit
15:12.41Jayce^fozzmoo: so similar-ish.. same price but 75/40 for now..
15:12.42programmerqsomething about NECA
15:12.51Jayce^they need more backbones
15:12.54programmerqbut I can't corroborate what they say about NECA making them cap their upload speeds.
15:13.04fozzmooJayce^: They're like politicians?
15:14.15programmerqdirectcom does some stuff that is annoying. my connection goes over a pppoe setup
15:14.22programmerqand I get disconnected from that regularly
15:14.40programmerqbut the regular disconnections aren't entirely constant
15:14.46programmerqsometimes I'll go for weeks without noticing anything
15:14.56programmerqand then I can go for weeks where it's impossible to play online games.
15:15.01Jayce^what are you using for a router?
15:15.14Jayce^I've never seen it that often
15:15.25programmerqhttp://www.asus.com/us/Networking/RTAC68U/
15:15.36programmerqit was fine for months and months, and then it started up in Novemberish.
15:15.51RyanEJayce^ uses a kleenex box full of resistors as his router.
15:16.01fozzmoo:)
15:16.15programmerqit's entirely possible a firmware update caused it, but I haven't taken the time to put another device on the network.
15:16.21Jayce^RyanE: but I forced dd-wrt on it, so it's cool
15:16.26RyanEhis "firmware update" is to shake the box.
15:16.45programmerqI haven't done it partially since I don't have a box with dual gigabit handy.
15:17.08programmerqeh, there's a firmware update now. might as well try it.
15:17.35RyanEI thought that about my pfSense box: "ooh, lookie!  an update!", and the newer base of FreeBSD didn't support one of my NICs.
15:17.38RyanE:|
15:17.50RyanEhad to go buy a usb NIC.
15:20.30programmerqyeah, I'd like to get a nice gigabit-capable pfsense box, and then just use my asus as a wifi access point.
15:20.44programmerqfirmware upgrade is done. hopefully that will help things.
15:21.38programmerqI still need to set up a syslog server and set my router to go to that
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16:07.25eightyeightman, whan an idiot: http://thinkprogress.org/education/2015/03/20/3636884/every-claim-ted-cruz-statement-completely-false/
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16:11.25Jayce^ahh thinkprogress, bastion of integrity...
16:13.12jsmithJayce^: I think they traded in their "integrity" card and got "journalistic praise" instead...
16:13.29jsmithJayce^: Or was that two sheep and a wood for a brick?
16:13.35jsmithJayce^: It's so hard to keep track these days...
16:15.50RyanEdang.  No one is rolling brick.
16:16.05fozzmoogoes through the thinkprogress thing one piece at a time, keeping a bottle of Mr. Clean handy
16:16.32fozzmooArticle is right about Ted Cruz's call to "repeal" Common Core. That's pretty laughable.
16:16.54fozzmooUh.. that's it?!
16:17.07goozbachohh I should look into ISP options for the new property!
16:17.22fozzmooI thought they were going to pull apart every tweet Cruz has tweeted.
16:17.30fozzmooHas he only tweeted once?!
16:17.49jsmithgoozbach: It's overrated -- you spend most of your time at the office anyway...
16:17.50fozzmooThinkProgress sucks. The headline is HUGELY misleading.
16:18.15fungussilly fozzmoo, the title clearly says every claim in a specific statement from Cruz was false.  
16:18.33fungusThe article matched the title correctly.
16:18.36fozzmooOh. pffft.
16:18.39fozzmooYou're right.
16:18.42fozzmooI misread it.
16:18.55goozbachjsmith: true, but my wife and kiddos spend most of it at home and curios george is a must (netflix or amazon)
16:19.10fungusThe article and title may not be a big deal or important.  But it is correct and not misleading.
16:19.34fozzmooMaybe I should hit the caffeine already. I usually don't until lunchtime.
16:20.22Jayce^silly legislator, you can't repeal executive actions, or do anything about actions taken by agencies... unless you use the right magic word...
16:20.39Jayce^must be a pure idiot then
16:20.47RyanEgoozbach: netflix is magic.  It even works over crappy DSL.
16:21.31Jayce^RyanE: macumba
16:22.00sjansenBut... but... outrage!
16:22.23Jayce^fala do diabo
16:22.29shalkieDidn't Mia Love run on the same platform?
16:22.30RyanEJayce^: H.264 macumba
16:22.41RyanEeu nao falo do diabo.
16:23.27jsmithRyanE: Falo bem Portuñol
16:23.37RyanEha!
16:23.43RyanEindeed
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16:24.41romanovichah. I talked to CenturyLink on the off chance they've improved service above 12Mbps in the last 5 years in my neighborhood.  they hadn't, but that didn't stop them from trying to sell me DSL service anyway
16:25.23romanovicnetflix can run on as low as 3Mbps, so 12Mbps should be plenty right?  I probably wouldn't even notice the difference from my current 100Mbps
16:25.30RyanE12Mbps!  Luxury!  Why in my day... NO CARRIER
16:25.31jsmith"We don't care.  We don't have to.  We're the phone company!"
16:26.00Jayce^but Title II
16:26.26shalkieAnd if you don't like the phone company you can choose Comcrap, Microwave or Satellite.
16:26.28Jayce^stirs it up
16:26.37shalkieSO many choices!
16:26.40unumromanovic: the sales person didn't get confused by your tech jargon of 12Mbps?
16:26.47unumI gues that's the one thing they might now
16:27.01unumknow
16:27.04jsmithshalkie: Don't forget Edge, HSPA+, and LTE!  (Who cares about cost...)
16:29.08shalkieOh right, forgot about the cell services. In fact now if comcast doesn't get you can go to their buddy Verizon for a hot spot. I wonder what the current comcast buddy plan gets you in discounts.
16:29.44shalkie"No monopolies here folks, keep on buying.. Just keep on buying...."
16:29.50RyanEI believe the discount is that they'll *only* take your firstborn, not all the kids.
16:35.31bregaladfozzmoo: I'll translate that for you: "political monkey found lying, does anyone care or is surprised?"
16:36.38Jayce^except it's not even that
16:36.45unumI'm really starting to think we're in for another Bush/Clinton campaign
16:37.02Jayce^nah, jeb's going to get slaughtered I think
16:37.07Jayce^crosses fingers
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16:37.12bregaladJayce^: I don't know, I didn't even read it
16:37.30bregaladI just expect anyone who is in congress to be lying and then I move on with my life
16:37.40Jayce^more of a straw man setup for an idealogical following
16:37.48Jayce^bregalad++
16:37.55bregaladthinkprogress has plenty of those
16:38.02bregaladthat's why I stopped reading
16:39.31unumall together?
16:39.35unumthere are some good books out there
16:39.59Jayce^IDEOLOGY!!!
16:40.06Jayce^he just burns them now
16:42.21unumthat reminds me I have a good topic
16:42.45unumhttp://www.anamericandreamrevealed.com/2015/03/the-role-of-lds-church-in-utahs-politics.html?m=1
16:42.49bregaladcruz may be an intelligent guy, but it's hard to know because he uses his idiot card frequently as if it's some kind of hometown appeal
16:43.45fozzmooI know a lot of people laughed at jeered when Cruz called Net Neutrality "Obamacare for the Internet."
16:43.49fozzmooBut I agree with him.
16:44.09unumit was really frustrating watching Romney's campaign because you know he's a smart guy, and you look at what he did in MA and you know where his heart is, but when he ran for president he just wasn't himself
16:44.10fozzmooEsp. now that the FCC has gone public with their vision.
16:44.27unumfozzmoo: so my employer is required to buy me health care
16:44.33unumI mean internet access
16:44.43unumand I'll be fined by the irs if I don't have internet access?
16:45.06unumand if I'm self employed the government will give me a subsidy to buy internet access?
16:45.14Jayce^because that's the *only* thing you can compare with :
16:45.42Jayce^depending on where you live your taxes actually will be used as subsidies
16:46.14unumwell the federal government has been subsidizing the telecom companies for a long time
16:47.03unumwhy not just say it's increased federal regulation of isps
16:47.08unumis that really harder to say
16:47.13Jayce^so we all should be happy about it..
16:48.36unumthere's no employer or individual mandate.  There's no exchanges.  
16:48.51unumthose are pretty major parts of the affordable care act
16:49.01asocfozzmoo: When you say went public with their vision are you talking about something concrete as in list of regulations or just with the vote and such?
16:49.06shalkieI would have thought comparing to telecoms would have been more apt.
16:57.07shalkietweaks sarcasm sensors
16:58.00bregaladif comcast would be deregulated so they could build our roads, then we'd have utopia
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17:16.08fozzmooasoc: even when the FCC
17:16.34fozzmooSorry. It was days after the vote before the specific terms of the new regulation were made public.
17:19.02fozzmooThe comparison was apt, I felt, because Obamacare took an industry (health insurance) that was riddled with customer service problems and complaints along with high costs and injected a boatload of new regulation that ultimately drove costs up, made service quality worse, and negatively impacted customer choice all with the promise of equal access for all.
17:19.18fozzmooNow, replace Obamacare with Net Neutrality and you'll see why I agree.
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17:26.09asocfozzmoo: I didn't even hear about them being made public. I figured it would be a bigger thing than it obviously was.
17:30.08Jayce^flashback time folks: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/descendentstudios/descent-underground?ref=friends_backed
17:35.37goozbachAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
17:40.17manithreeLOVED descent
17:42.46neybar_workI think that's already a game too
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18:05.23Migsnice
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19:04.59unumso we use aliases for a cheap and easy list serv.  Why would emails be getting delivered to people down the list(a dozen or so accounts) minutes after the first ones
19:05.17unumit really seems like it should only be a second or so
19:10.46shalkiegray listing?
19:12.41shalkieunum : Gray listing will initially reject a new mail delivery attempt but will accept a follow up delivery if tried again with a short enough period.
19:13.19shalkies/with a/within a/
19:13.42shalkieSo if your sending to a remote host that would be my thought.
19:15.18unumshalkie: no it's local
19:15.31unumit's all just going to a maildir on the machine that has the alias
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19:17.21shalkieHuh, anything useful in the logs?
19:17.46jlp_zncand it's getting delivered minutes later to some recipients?  what MTA and MDA do you use?
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19:18.57jlp_zncso, mail client sends to MTA, which expands the alias and hands off to MDA directly, which does the delivery?  or are there some intervening systems involved?
19:19.54Jayce^rbl issues? just saw some of those recently
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19:21.06unumI think the MTA does the delivery
19:21.18unumI don't know why I didn't check the logs first
19:21.21unumI'll take a look
19:22.01jlp_zncI know that at **former employer** we would send out mailings to a lot of places.  we used postfix.  we had to tweak the settings to allow a higher number of simultaneous connections to specific places (like gmail, yahoo, hotmail, etc.)
19:25.46bregaladwhat happens when you use prefix
19:26.38jlp_zncthe mail spills all over the floor and you have to sweep it up
19:27.03programmerqI'm doing a road trip. I have an HP touchpad running android. I can use my phone's gps over bluetooth. going to try out an offline navigation app.
19:27.08programmerqit looks like osmnav should do the trick.
19:27.30jlp_zncgood luck.  it's been nice knowing you, programmerq
19:27.37RyanEI like navmii
19:28.06RyanEyou can download maps pre-trip, you do need internet for lookups, but if you save a location, navigation works offline.
19:28.17RyanEor if you just 'find' the location on the map, you can route to / from it.
19:28.25RyanEuses OpenStreetMap data.
19:28.28jlp_zncyou've got to be careful with that routing software... "1: drive to the pier, 2: walk down the pier, 3: jump in the ocean, 4: swim to europe"
19:28.50programmerqjlp_znc: which layer are you suggesting will be the demise? the road trip itself? sharing gps over bluetooth? the map source data? the app itself? the HP touchpad itself?
19:29.07jlp_zncwhat kind of car do you have? :-)
19:29.50jlp_zncI'm betting on you running out of gas in the middle of a desert somewhere
19:30.15jlp_zncwith the mapping software saying that there's a gas station "right there"
19:30.35jlp_zncbut it's just a cactus that looks like a gas pump
19:30.51RyanE"well, I'll be"
19:36.53programmerqit's a honda fit.
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20:28.29bregalad~napoleon
20:28.29infobotJust listen to your heart.  That's what I do.
21:00.11jlp_zncprogrammerq: well, then, depending on where you drive it, you're likely to at least get laughed at. :-)
21:00.36programmerqit's quite a fun car, to be honest.
21:00.53programmerqmanual transmission ftw
21:01.16jlp_znclooks like every other star trek tng shuttle pod inspired tiny car of today
21:01.50programmerqalso, relevent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5lbShWEGQ0
21:02.02jlp_zncever noticed how the shuttle pods never had windows on the sides?  only on the front?
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21:11.55programmerqjlp_znc: doesn't change the fact that my 2015 fit looks better than my 92 accord did. :)
21:12.37jlp_zncI have no doubt of that.
21:13.06bregaladsilly people
21:13.13bregaladbuying cars based on what they look like
21:13.32jlp_zncbregalad: what do you drive?  a Pontiac Aztec? :-)
21:14.27bregaladjlp_znc: I don't drive very much, mostly I'm riding transit
21:16.30jlp_zncyeah, I'm kind of in the same boat right now.  the only operatable vehicle we have currently is my daughter's '93 jeep cherokee.
21:16.55jlp_zncmy wife and I have been looking at "new" cars, but we haven't found a deal we like, yet.
21:17.20bregaladyou mean the cars that have all the big brother tracking devices?
21:17.36jlp_zncso I ride the frontrunner, which isn't really that bad.
21:18.31jlp_zncbregalad: of course.  
21:19.32bregaladsoon cops won't even have to do their jobs, just like the UTA rental cops, they'll just scan your ID to see if you're conforming to the tracking requirements
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21:21.03romanovicchannels Marvin from RED - "when you’re in the system, they switch the flip and you’re done! satellites, cellphones, chips, Net, the Web, the dentist..."
21:24.16goozbachcrap, found /r/raisedbynarcissists and just lost the last 30min
21:24.24manithreeRyanE: Is navmii better than osmand?
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21:28.34RyanEdon't know osmand, sorry.
21:28.39RyanEother than donny osmand.
21:29.45programmerqbregalad: honestly, I walked in to the dealer. I knew I needed a car for my wife, and she pretty much knew what she wanted.
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21:29.51manithreeI've never used osmand's navigation, but I'm wondering if I'll have to download OSM data twice if I use osmand and navmii
21:30.02programmerqI told them I would consider getting something with a manual transmission in the lower price range
21:30.09RyanEprobably.
21:30.20RyanEI think navmii repackages the data for their own app
21:30.23programmerqthey showed me the fit. my initial reaction was "no, I don't want to look at a fit"
21:30.27RyanEi.e. the download happens 'internally' to the app.
21:30.39RyanEI thought you were talking about a health bracelet.  :)
21:30.52programmerqbut then I sat in it. it felt bigger than what I was driving. had better storage options, better fuel efficiency, and was fun to drive.
21:33.48manithreeosmand (Open Street Map for ANDroid) does it's own map download and management
21:34.06manithreenavigation is fairly new, I just haven't tried it out
21:41.54programmerqI've tried a few of the osm data based apps before, and they have always been fairly rubbish
21:41.58programmerqbut it's been a couple years
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21:42.07programmerqosmand seems relatively usable, even on the free tier
21:42.20programmerqI plugged in an address in CA, and it routed me once it got the gps lock
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22:43.46leviWTF, this server running all our Atlassian tools is taking about half a second per request to respond to cached GET requests with 304 Not Modified. That's from the end of sending the request until the first byte arrives.
22:50.00bregaladlevi: your aggravations are impressively detailed
22:50.15leviAnd since there 19 CSS files and 11 js files, it takes for-freakin'-ever to load.
22:54.25leviIt's clearly running in a linux container of some sort. The machine is clearly overloaded or underspecced or something.
23:00.06RyanEor both!
23:05.33Tod-Work(Or Atlassian's tools are just bloated nightmares you shouldn't be trying to use)
23:05.40Tod-Work(I'm only slightly biased)
23:05.44leviHeh.
23:10.42leviThey are indeed bloated.
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23:31.39*** join/#utah bgerber (~gerberb@suse103.zenez.com)
23:39.59romanovicI'd take atlassian's hipchat tools over my company's current developer chat solution ("we don't have developer chat")
23:40.22romanovicis trying to convince them
23:52.56leviWell, having installed a demo version of Jira on my machine, I can definitely say that it should *not* be taking ~500ms to give a 304 response to a GET.  My machine is not even remotely new, either.

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