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| 15:38.33 | eightyeight | https://twitter.com/AaronToponce/status/577492641333432322 |
| 15:47.32 | fadein | eightyeight: Irssi - because I cannot be bothered with Twitter anymore |
| 15:48.52 | fadein | (that is to say, Twitter + Bitlbee + Irssi was too much of a match for my productivity) |
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| 15:59.40 | youtah | What do you guys use for GTalk on Mac? Because Adium SUCKKKKKKKKS |
| 16:00.02 | youtah | Psi installed, but I need to create a service account apparently. |
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| 16:07.43 | Migs | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B__NfF4WoAA1G1T.png:large |
| 16:08.16 | bregalad | ~napoleon |
| 16:08.16 | infobot | Wait, I forgot the crystals. |
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| 16:49.39 | spangborn | youtah: Messages. |
| 16:49.50 | spangborn | But it doesn't support group chats because Google is a jerk. |
| 16:50.08 | youtah | Messages? |
| 16:50.11 | spangborn | Yes. |
| 16:50.16 | spangborn | The default Messages app. |
| 16:50.23 | youtah | the default app? |
| 16:50.31 | spangborn | Yep. You can add a Google account to it. |
| 16:50.32 | youtah | but no one ever uses the default app |
| 16:50.45 | spangborn | On OSX, you do |
| 16:50.52 | youtah | lol |
| 16:52.24 | spangborn | I believe there's way to use the Hangouts app through Chrome, too |
| 16:52.30 | spangborn | But I hate that it requires me to run Chrome |
| 16:52.36 | spangborn | http://i.imgur.com/DZsX1fd.png |
| 16:54.20 | bregalad | I don't see how hangouts is supposed to be better than talk |
| 16:55.24 | spangborn | It's not, really. |
| 16:55.28 | bregalad | it's slower and uses 2-3x the resources to do the same thing in a proprietary, non-standards compliant way |
| 16:55.30 | RyanE | spangborn: you get a new calculator? |
| 16:55.39 | spangborn | RyanE: It was a coworker's |
| 16:55.46 | spangborn | I sent a photo to youtah because he loves them. |
| 16:55.54 | RyanE | nice. |
| 16:55.58 | spangborn | It's pretty rad though, right? |
| 16:56.27 | spangborn | Coworker bet me that I couldn't figure out how to use it. |
| 16:56.34 | spangborn | It very much outdates me (I'm 27). |
| 16:56.40 | bregalad | and it has a stupider name |
| 16:57.22 | bregalad | the google shark is in the water; the only question remaining is whether it's been jumped or not |
| 16:58.10 | spangborn | Well, the fact that they intentionally broke away from Jabber is pretty telling. |
| 16:58.21 | spangborn | "We like OSS when it makes us money, and not much otherwise." |
| 16:58.45 | bregalad | yeah, this is the second time they've threatened to shutdown their xmpp gateway |
| 16:58.56 | bregalad | but it's still working, so whatever |
| 16:59.02 | spangborn | Well, their XMPP implementation doesn't work with group hangouts |
| 16:59.06 | spangborn | So it's almost worthless. |
| 16:59.16 | spangborn | Which they've done intentionally. |
| 16:59.40 | bregalad | fortunately I don't have to use 'hangouts' for anything I don't have control over |
| 17:00.17 | spangborn | It's a shame, because Talk was really catching on as the frontrunner in the IM space. |
| 17:00.21 | bregalad | it's just one more reason to reduce the google in my life and they're doing it to themselves |
| 17:00.40 | bregalad | as in, it requires no action on my part :) |
| 17:00.44 | spangborn | Haha, yep |
| 17:01.36 | bregalad | google is the new microsoft, quickly maxing out the hardware resources available in order to motivate the unaware and illiterate to buy needless more horsepower |
| 17:02.08 | bregalad | whether they're doing this on purpose is an interesting question, though I'm guessing not |
| 17:02.46 | spangborn | Eh, I think that's pretty typical of software in general. |
| 17:03.19 | spangborn | My beef with Google has been establishing themselves as an open-ish standard, and then slowly closing it. |
| 17:03.43 | romanovic | youtah: I used pidgin when I had to work on a mac, since it let me sign into multiple services simultaneously |
| 17:03.44 | bregalad | yeah |
| 17:04.12 | spangborn | romanovic: Adium is basically Pidgin for Mac, anyhow. |
| 17:04.17 | spangborn | Uses the same core. |
| 17:04.17 | bregalad | I've been using duckduckgo.com since they started poising my search results with whatever eightyeight clicked on |
| 17:04.33 | bregalad | spangborn: finch :-) |
| 17:04.50 | bregalad | s/poising/poisoning/ |
| 17:05.06 | eightyeight | <3 DDG |
| 17:05.11 | bregalad | lol |
| 17:05.16 | eightyeight | they suck at image searches though |
| 17:05.24 | spangborn | Also dislike Pidgin's storing passwords in plaintext. |
| 17:05.36 | eightyeight | still use images.google.com for that |
| 17:05.37 | spangborn | (If they're still doing that, anyway) |
| 17:06.01 | eightyeight | spangborn: yeah. the devs are fail in that regard. they haven't changed, last i checked |
| 17:06.11 | eightyeight | like implementing a master password is really that difficult |
| 17:06.26 | spangborn | It's like any legitimate argument made against them makes them more firm in their stupidity |
| 17:07.01 | spangborn | I like that they're argument is "Well if something is running under your user anyway, you're already screwed" |
| 17:07.03 | spangborn | *their |
| 17:07.07 | spangborn | Jeez, English-ing is hard. |
| 17:07.41 | eightyeight | nope. they haven't changed: https://developer.pidgin.im/wiki/PlainTextPasswords |
| 17:08.12 | spangborn | Also love the "everyone else does it fail, so we don't care" |
| 17:08.37 | spangborn | And "instant messaging is not very secure" |
| 17:08.44 | spangborn | Tell that to Cryptocat. |
| 17:09.23 | eightyeight | heh. well, to be fair, cryptocat hasn't exactly had the best security history |
| 17:09.31 | spangborn | And pretending to be open to keyring integration is hysterical, too. |
| 17:09.39 | spangborn | Well, but at least they fix what people see as an issue. |
| 17:10.51 | spangborn | Bound to be holes in everything at some point. Best you can hope for is someone reviews and catches it early. |
| 17:11.29 | youtah | They took Pidgin, and said "Lets Bejewel this thing and plaster it with glitter and all as many annoying animating icons everywhere and call it adium" |
| 17:11.38 | fozzmoo | ~lart youtah |
| 17:11.38 | infobot | slaps youtah around with a large trout |
| 17:11.44 | spangborn | Adium used to be alright. It's atrocious now. |
| 17:12.18 | fozzmoo | I either want Google group messaging support in Pidgin (libpurple) or I want Google to go away now please. |
| 17:12.21 | youtah | like.... it reminds me of some old ladies 1970's dress covered with sequins |
| 17:12.42 | youtah | ^ Adium |
| 17:13.22 | youtah | old lady, being like 80 years old... dress from the 70s |
| 17:13.27 | youtah | I should clarify that |
| 17:13.30 | youtah | lol |
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| 17:15.54 | eightyeight | a couple problems with adium that have impacted me, as a non-user: |
| 17:16.06 | eightyeight | 1) with its OTR plugin, it isn't aware of SMP |
| 17:16.41 | eightyeight | 2) via the OTR plugin, there doesn't seem to be a way to list known fingerprints, including your own |
| 17:16.49 | youtah | 3) people in IRC ragging about it constantly and annoying you about how much Adium sucks.... |
| 17:16.52 | eightyeight | and, it appears to be using an out-dated OTR version |
| 17:17.08 | eightyeight | so, no guarantees that your OTR conversation is even secure |
| 17:17.09 | spangborn | 4) Random list entries that don't make any sense |
| 17:17.27 | spangborn | This is why I like following eightyeight. |
| 17:17.29 | fozzmoo | 5) running on OS X. |
| 17:17.30 | bregalad | youtah: here's a url refuting your assertion: https://url.horse/356hw35g |
| 17:17.33 | spangborn | I don't have to keep up on all this crap. |
| 17:17.34 | fozzmoo | (Did I say that?) |
| 17:17.43 | spangborn | url.horse. lmao |
| 17:17.52 | eightyeight | heh |
| 17:17.58 | bregalad | spangborn: walmart.horse |
| 17:18.07 | spangborn | I want that TLD now. |
| 17:18.07 | bregalad | spangborn: http://walmart.horse/ |
| 17:18.19 | spangborn | lolwat. |
| 17:18.29 | spangborn | Tumblr is so weird. |
| 17:18.38 | youtah | I am kind of sad |
| 17:18.45 | youtah | that the link doesn't work |
| 17:18.46 | youtah | I want it to |
| 17:18.47 | youtah | badly |
| 17:18.51 | youtah | like way badly |
| 17:18.56 | bregalad | youtah: which one? |
| 17:19.01 | spangborn | I clicked it like 5 times just to make sure. |
| 17:19.02 | youtah | url.horse |
| 17:19.19 | youtah | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/diskcactus/the-emoji-keyboard-type-emoji-on-your-mac << This is how I feel looking at Adium |
| 17:19.19 | spangborn | Social engineering youtah should be easy. |
| 17:19.30 | bregalad | youtah: it practically came out of the horse's excrement mechanism |
| 17:19.30 | youtah | bacon.horse |
| 17:19.33 | spangborn | ð© |
| 17:19.46 | spangborn | Control + Command + Space, youtah |
| 17:20.03 | spangborn | opens pandora's box |
| 17:20.06 | youtah | speaking of horse meat..... I accidentally bought a Traegar smoker/grill over the weekend |
| 17:20.06 | bregalad | https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20150310/05575230270/walmart-not-horsing-around-with-parody-domain-site.shtml |
| 17:20.27 | spangborn | Hahahahaha. |
| 17:20.43 | spangborn | Walmart so salty. |
| 17:21.02 | RyanE | questionablecontent.horse <-- may want to turn your speakers down, forewarned... |
| 17:21.20 | spangborn | Oh yes. |
| 17:21.22 | youtah | LOL |
| 17:21.23 | spangborn | I'm leaving this site up all day. |
| 17:21.26 | youtah | I WANT TO CLICK IT |
| 17:21.29 | spangborn | Yakety Sax is always a win. |
| 17:21.34 | youtah | is it SFW? |
| 17:21.40 | spangborn | Yes. |
| 17:21.57 | RyanE | your coworkers will think you're watching Benny Hill, but that's OK. |
| 17:22.00 | spangborn | The internet is glorious. |
| 17:22.13 | youtah | LOL |
| 17:22.29 | spangborn | It's even better when you open it in 3 tabs. |
| 17:22.40 | youtah | Perfect |
| 17:22.46 | RyanE | ha! |
| 17:24.01 | spangborn | I hope it loops. |
| 17:24.07 | spangborn | I haven't been able to tell if it does yet. |
| 17:26.11 | youtah | OMG |
| 17:26.14 | youtah | 4 tabs |
| 17:26.19 | youtah | you guys I might vomit |
| 17:26.35 | youtah | This is Gitmo quality |
| 17:26.38 | spangborn | I'm sure when it gets to the key change, that makes things awkward. |
| 17:27.09 | youtah | 6 is just too many |
| 17:27.13 | youtah | 4 is perfect for insanity |
| 17:27.23 | spangborn | New favorite gerund: Streisanding |
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| 17:36.30 | spangborn | compulsively refreshes the Pebble kickstarter |
| 17:37.44 | spangborn | Greg Miller stepping down as Jazz CEO. Interesting. |
| 17:38.31 | jlp_znc | youtah: I've been looking at https://github.com/tdryer/hangups for gtalk in a terminal... but I've really just been using the hangouts chrome extension. |
| 17:38.45 | youtah | Thx jlp_znc |
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| 17:39.11 | spangborn | It'd be nice if that was integrated into a decent non-text client. |
| 17:39.22 | spangborn | But given the nature of it being reverse engineered, that probably won't happen. |
| 17:40.25 | RyanE | spangborn: won't make your watch get here any faster, unfortunately. |
| 17:40.31 | spangborn | I know. :( |
| 17:40.39 | RyanE | I did finally tell my wife that I'd backed that one... :) |
| 17:40.48 | spangborn | Even having an in with Pebble probably won't do that. |
| 17:40.51 | RyanE | she was not bitter. |
| 17:40.58 | spangborn | Excellent! |
| 17:41.03 | RyanE | indeed |
| 17:41.59 | spangborn | This looks somewhat promising: https://github.com/xmikos/qhangups |
| 17:48.09 | bregalad | ~napoleon |
| 17:48.09 | infobot | Sweet! That's like a dollar an hour! |
| 17:49.03 | jlp_znc | https://github.com/mtomwing/pickups <- irc gateway using hangups (i.e., looks like an irc server to your client, speaks hangouts protocol via hangouts python library) |
| 17:51.44 | bregalad | hangups, lol |
| 17:52.05 | programmerq | on the horse thing... http://my-hor.se/ (mildly nsfw-ish, audio is fine but will attract attention) |
| 17:53.08 | goozbach | ~boring |
| 17:53.08 | infobot | yes, you are goozbach |
| 17:53.25 | fozzmoo | ~lart infobot |
| 17:53.25 | infobot | gives fozzmoo a good seeing to |
| 17:53.38 | bregalad | so the channel is still on a horse bit |
| 17:53.44 | bregalad | I have succeeded today |
| 17:56.20 | jlp_znc | a horse is a horse, of course, of course |
| 17:56.46 | jlp_znc | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_PZPpWTRTU |
| 17:58.32 | bregalad | eightyeight: plz update topic kthxbie |
| 17:59.09 | *** mode/#utah [+o eightyeight] by ChanServ |
| 17:59.11 | *** mode/#utah [+o eightyeight] by eightyeight |
| 17:59.34 | *** join/#utah olli (~olli@194.168.195.98) |
| 17:59.47 | *** topic/#utah by eightyeight -> Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds | OpenWest Conference May 7-9, 2015! http:///www.openwest.org |
| 17:59.54 | *** mode/#utah [-o eightyeight] by eightyeight |
| 18:00.30 | bregalad | darn, I was hoping for an equestrian topic |
| 18:00.58 | spangborn | You missed the 2. |
| 18:01.02 | spangborn | nitpicks. |
| 18:01.05 | eightyeight | when did +t get set on the channel? |
| 18:01.16 | bregalad | many months ago |
| 18:01.17 | spangborn | +o again, fix pls. |
| 18:01.24 | *** mode/#utah [+o eightyeight] by ChanServ |
| 18:01.34 | *** mode/#utah [-t] by eightyeight |
| 18:01.43 | *** mode/#utah [-o eightyeight] by eightyeight |
| 18:02.06 | bregalad | #utah: no topic nazis, but topic workers |
| 18:02.43 | spangborn | Weird, my client has a bug. |
| 18:03.02 | spangborn | Shows "2015" in the topic as "015" |
| 18:03.13 | spangborn | But only in the main pane. In the topic pane, shows fine. |
| 18:10.24 | spangborn | Ugh, Becker pushing to put the prison in SLC. |
| 18:10.40 | spangborn | https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxvOkBlMOu7WRmQ3bVBIQm91cXM/view |
| 18:13.40 | bregalad | spangborn: :-( |
| 18:13.54 | bregalad | but at the same time, I don't really care |
| 18:13.59 | spangborn | I really am starting to distrust and loathe Becker. |
| 18:14.11 | spangborn | Yeah, except it's going to cost a small fortune to do something that isn't really necessary. |
| 18:14.19 | bregalad | let those draper hypocrites damn themselves |
| 18:14.35 | bregalad | yeah, I was speaking morally |
| 18:14.42 | spangborn | Yeah, I think that's fair. |
| 18:15.08 | spangborn | I mean, it's obvious as to why it's being proposed to be moved. |
| 18:15.24 | bregalad | Draper: the city that refused to allow the LDS church to build a DI but did eventually let them build a temple in their most holy city |
| 18:15.26 | spangborn | Just such a crappy situation all around. |
| 18:15.37 | spangborn | Did they really? |
| 18:16.15 | bregalad | I don't have a source on it |
| 18:16.38 | spangborn | I believe you - just hadn't been paying enough attention to notice it, I guess. |
| 18:16.40 | bregalad | but you don't forget hearing something as incredible as that |
| 18:16.54 | bregalad | this was several years ago |
| 18:17.11 | *** join/#utah bgerber (~gerberb@suse103.zenez.com) |
| 18:18.20 | bregalad | it's pretty clear that the state circus, I mean, "legislature" is a realtor racket |
| 18:18.31 | spangborn | Yep. |
| 18:18.47 | spangborn | Did the bill pass that removed the requirements for lobbyists to wear tags identifying them as such? |
| 18:18.54 | spangborn | I forgot to look for it. |
| 18:19.03 | bregalad | lol, didn't hear about that one |
| 18:19.37 | bregalad | "it's too much government regulation interfering with our business" |
| 18:19.42 | spangborn | Hah. |
| 18:19.50 | spangborn | http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2014/aug/02/utah-lobbyists-told-wear-tags/?print |
| 18:20.01 | spangborn | That's when it started. |
| 18:20.18 | spangborn | âI just think itâs silly and itâs not necessary and it smacks of a nanny state,â Pignanelli said. âOur forefathers didnât cross the plains so we can stick badges on lobbyists.â |
| 18:20.24 | spangborn | You weren't wrong. :( |
| 18:23.34 | jlp_znc | they didn't cross the plains so we could *have* lobbyists. |
| 18:23.55 | jlp_znc | and what's the deal with "whomwho"? is that a new word I'm not familiar with? |
| 18:24.02 | bregalad | we should petition the state government to outlaw lobbies |
| 18:24.45 | jlp_znc | but who would take the legislators to lunch? |
| 18:25.01 | jlp_znc | you mean, they should (gasp) buy their *own* lunch? |
| 18:25.32 | bregalad | jlp_znc: doesn't matter, no regulation is the most virtuous state, you know, they just won't be able to eat in the lobby anymore because it will be demolished |
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| 18:54.01 | *** join/#utah jmadsen (~jmadsen@216.51.95.36) |
| 18:59.55 | spangborn | eightyeight: http://www.isg.rhul.ac.uk/tls/RC4passwords.pdf |
| 19:00.10 | spangborn | (You've probably already seen this.) |
| 19:00.34 | eightyeight | i did see it in my rss feed, but hadn't had a chance to read it yet |
| 19:02.24 | spangborn | Ugh, why is Flickr doing this stupid interstitial "sign into Flickr" page just to look at a photo link now? |
| 19:03.13 | *** join/#utah josephscott (~josephsco@192.0.125.251) |
| 19:14.38 | bregalad | spangborn: they're getting desperate |
| 19:15.02 | fozzmoo | Fark headline: "Dunkin' Donuts to remove whitening agent from powdered sugar - thereby making donuts once again the go-to choice for the health conscious" |
| 19:15.04 | spangborn | I can understand why. They've been garbage for so long. |
| 19:15.28 | *** join/#utah bgerber (~gerberb@suse103.zenez.com) |
| 19:15.41 | unum | I'd be happy if we didn't allow them to be both at the same time |
| 19:15.56 | unum | well ok not completely happy but happier |
| 19:16.30 | jlp_znc | mmmm, doughnuts. |
| 19:16.34 | jlp_znc | salivates |
| 19:16.54 | fozzmoo | http://is.gd/uyZ22g |
| 19:18.03 | jlp_znc | which reminds me of a dude I used to work with. his IRC handle was dough (his name was Doug Hatfield). he actually had the personality of dough, as well. |
| 19:18.27 | bregalad | ~horse |
| 19:18.27 | infobot | methinks horse is A host is a host from coast to coast, But no one will talk to a host that's close, Unless of course the host that's close is busy, hung, or dead. |
| 19:18.28 | jlp_znc | interpersonal relationships weren't really his thing. |
| 19:18.30 | spangborn | Salmonella? |
| 19:18.46 | bregalad | infobot: horse is also http://walmart.horse/ |
| 19:18.46 | infobot | okay, bregalad |
| 19:19.29 | spangborn | infobot: horse is also http://questionablecontent.horse |
| 19:19.29 | infobot | spangborn: okay |
| 19:20.07 | *** topic/#utah by bregalad -> Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds | OpenWest Conference May 7-9, 2015! http://www.openwest.org/ |
| 19:25.01 | jlp_znc | http://oglaf.com/glamazon-way/ |
| 19:25.58 | jlp_znc | warning, before you start clicking away on "next page" or "prev page" many of these are NSFW |
| 19:34.11 | Tod-Work | pretty sure there's nothing SFW in that entire site, actually |
| 19:34.29 | Tod-Work | (mostly because the base template can include NSFW things at any time) |
| 19:51.48 | jlp_znc | I suppose you're right, Tod-Work. Good thing I have a private office. :-) |
| 19:53.46 | Jayce^ | moves jlp_znc to the barracuda |
| 19:53.55 | jlp_znc | :-) |
| 19:54.21 | jlp_znc | I'm on the admin vlan |
| 19:54.37 | Jayce^ | pre-your time that still was.. |
| 19:54.51 | Tod-Work | jlp_znc, I just have never cared. Like, if someone's offended, tell them to go do something productive for once in their life |
| 19:55.03 | *** join/#utah jmadsen (~jmadsen@216.51.95.36) |
| 19:55.08 | Jayce^ | oh, and by admin vlan.. you mean your vlan, on the admin south vlan, on the $x vlan.... |
| 19:55.14 | jlp_znc | exactly, Tod-Work. |
| 19:55.18 | Tod-Work | "I shouldn't have to be subjected to that sort of thing at work." Well, you know, look at your own screen then. |
| 19:55.29 | Jayce^ | but *feelings* get hurt |
| 19:55.35 | Jayce^ | TRIGGER |
| 19:55.36 | Tod-Work | pfft |
| 19:55.36 | jlp_znc | "feelings" |
| 19:55.37 | RyanE | feelings, nothing more than feelings... |
| 19:55.39 | Tod-Work | this isn't middle school |
| 19:55.45 | Tod-Work | fuck your feelings |
| 19:55.46 | RyanE | well, it kinda is. |
| 19:55.58 | Tod-Work | is not popular with HR |
| 19:56.49 | Jayce^ | RyanE: I always laugh at that song, when as a kid one of my friends parents was singing it.. was a filipna with a heavy accent.. |
| 19:57.03 | Jayce^ | "Peelings... nothing more than PEE-LINGS" |
| 19:57.21 | Jayce^ | even my friend was laughing.. |
| 19:58.22 | joshh | why do people work at places where nsfw links actually get them in trouble? |
| 19:58.41 | jlp_znc | because $$ |
| 19:58.58 | joshh | i don't think those places pay better than places with freedom |
| 19:59.24 | Jayce^ | oh, they often do.. |
| 19:59.36 | Jayce^ | and then look at the number of "modern" environments that have no offices.. |
| 19:59.38 | joshh | the IT here said something about how you should put casper on your mac, and in the same email, promised not to monitor anything |
| 19:59.40 | Jayce^ | "shared floor" |
| 19:59.51 | jlp_znc | often, the places that don't care are small, while the places that do are large and have actual budgets. |
| 20:00.30 | joshh | if you offend someone and they complain, you could get in trouble anywhere. |
| 20:01.04 | joshh | i guess i get that you should make sure nobody is behind you when opening certain links, but it's the monitoring with reports that bugs me |
| 20:01.35 | jlp_znc | you need to complain first. you have to learn to recognize the offensive feeling in someone's eyes and then immediatley report them to HR for something like inappropriate touching. when they make their "counter claim" against you, HR will not know who to believe. |
| 20:01.36 | joshh | i don't work anywhere that inspects or blocks any browsing |
| 20:01.58 | jlp_znc | s/offensive/offended/ |
| 20:02.15 | joshh | yes, good strategy |
| 20:02.18 | romanovic | joshh: that must be nice |
| 20:02.22 | Jayce^ | that's how jlp_znc deals with having goozbach as a coworker |
| 20:02.36 | Jayce^ | introduces jlp_znc to harleypig next.... |
| 20:02.52 | jlp_znc | you know, we're two offices apart and we see each other in google hangouts more often than with real eyeballs. |
| 20:03.02 | romanovic | 's last two jobs have done web monitoring plus nsa-style MITM SSL monitoring on all employees |
| 20:03.03 | Jayce^ | and that's just the way we like it |
| 20:03.12 | joshh | and look at migs... work at a school district, probably even gets his ssl inspected... and posts the worst links here all the time |
| 20:03.50 | joshh | romanovic: why do you work there in spite of that? love the field/work/money? |
| 20:03.52 | jlp_znc | "I was simply testing the SFW filters" |
| 20:03.54 | RyanE | three words: ssl tunnel proxy |
| 20:04.10 | romanovic | RyanE: yes. that is the only reason I work at such places |
| 20:04.28 | fungus | That's where I would draw the line, SSL MITM is too far. |
| 20:04.41 | joshh | what do you do? |
| 20:05.10 | romanovic | and if they should ever find a way to prevent that, or make a big deal about it, then I will leave. |
| 20:05.11 | joshh | fungus: i wouldn't even work somewhere where where the company had root or access to my laptop |
| 20:05.28 | joshh | i just... don't like that sort of treatment |
| 20:05.31 | fungus | It's come up at my company several times, and I was able to defeat it so far. |
| 20:06.55 | fungus | joshh, that's a bit different. It would depend on what they would use it for. There are lots of reasonable reasons for needing access to a company computer with company data that is used by an employee. |
| 20:07.28 | joshh | romanovic: but getting around that kind of policy with tech is still not ideal. you should have management that doesn't worry about such things in the first place |
| 20:08.05 | spangborn | We got warned not to use banking sites on the network when I worked at AST/Raytheon. |
| 20:08.07 | romanovic | joshh: I agree. I work in the medical field though, and they are super anal about HIPAA compliance |
| 20:08.12 | spangborn | They SSL MITM'd everything. |
| 20:08.17 | fungus | romanovic, that could be dangerous. a type of company that does SSL MITM would likely fire you for trying to bypass it. |
| 20:09.21 | joshh | so everyone knows actual porn at work is a sign of a bad employee, but has anyone ever been in trouble for say, nsfw language, or an R rated footer image? |
| 20:10.35 | fungus | Not for those reasons. Usually the internet monitoring is used at my company to provide evidence for HR for people that do nothing but facebook/youtube/etc all day long. |
| 20:10.41 | RyanE | I'd say if I taped a couple of NSFW pictures on *my* feet at work, I'd probably get in trouble, and have to go into HR for "that talk". |
| 20:10.42 | joshh | fungus: i think it's ok to do stuff like enforce FDE and autoupdates for G&A, but technical staff should have root and be able to do clean installs etc, and just be required by policy to do that |
| 20:10.48 | joshh | anything IT tries to enforce ends in disaster |
| 20:11.41 | joshh | HR shouldn't care if someone facebook or youtubes all day long. their manager should care if they don't get their work done |
| 20:11.57 | RyanE | there's a big gap between "should" and "does", unfortunately. |
| 20:11.58 | fungus | joshh, yes, technical staff should be granted additional trust and control over their own machines. |
| 20:12.12 | RyanE | all you need is one micromanaging boss to screw everything up. |
| 20:12.19 | fungus | joshh, the manager has to go through HR to get approvals for firing.s |
| 20:12.43 | joshh | sure, but they can simply say "X and Y and Z tasks never gone done, even after warnings" |
| 20:12.48 | joshh | no need to pull up a browsing history |
| 20:12.53 | fungus | Manager contacts HR for firing, HR contacts IT for evidence, employee gets fired. |
| 20:13.06 | joshh | that's the wrong way to do it |
| 20:13.21 | RyanE | "wrong" |
| 20:13.23 | joshh | IT should only remove employee from ldap and stuff |
| 20:13.32 | joshh | not dig up browsing details |
| 20:13.50 | fungus | My company is very very careful about firings. They make sure they have tons of evidence in case of lawsuit. |
| 20:13.55 | *** join/#utah bgerber (~gerberb@suse103.zenez.com) |
| 20:15.01 | fungus | Lots of oversight in employment practices at my company. It protects both the employee and the company equally. |
| 20:15.17 | joshh | big brother stuff at work is just one of those pet peeve topics that drives me crazy |
| 20:15.49 | fungus | Agreed, that's why my systems are only used when HR or legal are involved. |
| 20:16.20 | joshh | so you collect but don't look until an employee is a target, nsa style? |
| 20:16.37 | fungus | hehe, yup |
| 20:16.57 | joshh | its like if you have to look at where they go on the internet to fire them, that's just absurd |
| 20:17.31 | fungus | It's used as evidence to prove the allegations of a manager. |
| 20:17.37 | fungus | or disprove. |
| 20:18.05 | joshh | what if someone doesn't get any work done but never youtubes? |
| 20:18.16 | fungus | That'll show in the logs too |
| 20:18.31 | fungus | Well, unless they just twiddle their thumbs all day. :) |
| 20:19.00 | jlp_znc | is a master thumb twiddler |
| 20:19.01 | fungus | Then the manager will likely need to provide other evidence. |
| 20:19.04 | jlp_znc | but I have nothing on youtah. |
| 20:19.14 | joshh | jlp_znc: how big brothery was linkedin? |
| 20:19.19 | spangborn | Or in Utah, just fire the person for the sake of firing. |
| 20:19.23 | spangborn | No reason needed. |
| 20:19.31 | romanovic | I'm mostly irritated because I work in a company with many non-technical people, like most everyone does, but network policies intended for the non-technical employees are limiting my ability to do work |
| 20:19.46 | Jayce^ | if you give a reason, you must be able to "back it up"... but no reason is just fine.. |
| 20:19.48 | fungus | joshh, is actually really rare, I've only had 2 requests for internet logs in the past 5 years. |
| 20:20.22 | Jayce^ | really really hates the NSA excuse by companies about IT control/logs... "If you have nothing to hide, why should you worry" |
| 20:20.23 | jlp_znc | not too bad, really. IT had root access on your machine(s), but so did you. no restrictions on outbound connections (i.e. you could ssh/mosh anywhere on the big-I), but web traffic did go through a transparent proxy that would block "risky" material. |
| 20:20.25 | joshh | ya, often companies just invoke their right to not provide a reason |
| 20:20.33 | romanovic | once, for a couple weeks, StackOverflow and other programming-related resources were blocked, and it was like pulling teeth to get it unblocked |
| 20:20.38 | youtah | wut |
| 20:21.01 | youtah | is trying to work here! |
| 20:21.12 | Jayce^ | obvious lie |
| 20:21.19 | jlp_znc | snickers |
| 20:21.23 | spangborn | I'm surprised you know what that word means. ;p |
| 20:22.08 | Tod-Work | Personally I don't care. I ran a call center and we just had metrics for doing the actual work, and what you did in addition to getting that done we didn't even try to police |
| 20:22.26 | RyanE | not everyone is as enlightened as you, Tod-Work. |
| 20:22.27 | jlp_znc | linkedin also had tons of crap around the office (like ping-pong/foosball tables, pinball machines, etc) |
| 20:22.42 | jlp_znc | so if you wanted to waste time, you could, just so long as your work got done in a timely fashion. |
| 20:22.42 | Tod-Work | RyanE, less enlightment and more just different priorities |
| 20:22.48 | joshh | that's surprising, i spent some time in callcenters when i was 18 or so and they were total nazis about monitoring |
| 20:23.14 | Tod-Work | I can see something like Raytheon having the monitoring for obvious reasons |
| 20:23.25 | fozzmoo | ~lart youtah |
| 20:23.25 | infobot | slaps a compatible dib on youtah's head |
| 20:23.54 | joshh | classified stuff is a different game, but even then, simply monitoring web traffic won't be enough to stop bad guys |
| 20:23.57 | Tod-Work | the people that monitor for productivity reasons I think are probably wasting their time and could do better |
| 20:24.01 | jlp_znc | at Raytheon Oakely, we (devs) had three machines on our desks. one on the internal "work" network, one on the external "test/play" network, and one on the "raytheon" network. |
| 20:24.25 | fozzmoo | Imagine what you could have done with three NICs. ;-) |
| 20:24.42 | fungus | Three NICs and VMs |
| 20:25.01 | fozzmoo | Probably would have gotten you fired though. |
| 20:25.44 | jlp_znc | air gap networks required, so no multi-nic machines |
| 20:26.02 | Jayce^ | youtah: they're coming after you now: http://cfpub.epa.gov/ncer_abstracts/index.cfm/fuseaction/display.abstractDetail/abstract/10266/report/0 |
| 20:26.18 | joshh | and that's fine, it makes some sense, and is for a business reason, unlike getting reports of your nsfw link clicking |
| 20:26.30 | fozzmoo | Cooking is killing the earth. Didn't you hear? |
| 20:27.44 | jlp_znc | some people had a fourth machine and network for "unfiltered" access to the network via an anonymous network connection for "testing". yeah, we called it that. |
| 20:28.23 | Tod-Work | basically "are you wasting time" is a limiting and misdirected question. "Are you getting done what we pay you for" is better. "How can we get more value out of you" can be even better than that, but has dangerous paths too. |
| 20:28.30 | jlp_znc | and after they instituted the policy of no personal machines on any of the work networks (there was no public wifi, or any wifi for that matter), there were quite a few micro hotspots popping up. |
| 20:28.32 | Tod-Work | There's no easy answers to any of it. |
| 20:28.59 | jlp_znc | Tod-Work: this is part of why I am not a manager. |
| 20:29.13 | jlp_znc | been there, done that, got the t-shirt. |
| 20:29.18 | Tod-Work | I'd do it again, just not middle management |
| 20:29.30 | Tod-Work | getting past middle management was where it was fun and rewarding |
| 20:29.55 | jlp_znc | I'd do C-level or VP-level management, I think, but not in the trenches. I'd rather be a technical lead. |
| 20:30.20 | joshh | but the thing is, these days there are plenty of enlightened places to work with clueful people in charge, no reason to work at a place that will fire you for an irc link |
| 20:30.25 | Tod-Work | project leadership is the best not-top-level management |
| 20:30.33 | Tod-Work | joshh, yes |
| 20:30.50 | joshh | let those places have a hard time finding people |
| 20:30.53 | Tod-Work | People sell themselves short all the time, though |
| 20:31.46 | Tod-Work | I once got an offer for a job as both a .NET and PHP developer (senior level for both) who was also expected to administer an Asterisk server at an experienced mid-level |
| 20:31.54 | Tod-Work | Pay offered? $35K |
| 20:31.58 | jlp_znc | gak |
| 20:32.12 | jlp_znc | I think I would counter that offer with "per month?" |
| 20:32.14 | joshh | lol |
| 20:32.20 | Tod-Work | That's what they paid the guy before, and the guy before that, over the previous two years |
| 20:32.29 | Tod-Work | there's people in Utah that will do it for that, so they think it's fair |
| 20:32.32 | jlp_znc | which was why they were looking again for a new guy. |
| 20:32.32 | joshh | people who take those jobs ruin it for everyone |
| 20:33.09 | Tod-Work | I always advise people looking to not sell themselves short and ask for a fair price. Even your dream job will be stupid if you know you're getting underpaid |
| 20:33.23 | jlp_znc | I can see the negotiation in my mind... you take the offer letter, cross off "annual" and write "monthly" in where the salary is defined, sign it and fax it back to them. |
| 20:33.27 | Tod-Work | (especially that much, but that's an extreme example) |
| 20:34.03 | joshh | its probably a small company with no money, and their definition of senior would be slightly above entry level at places |
| 20:34.10 | youtah | fozzmoo, yeah what jlp_znc ... you were not even allowed to have Thumbdrives used back and forth between the machines. You have to have three separate thumb drives for each machine. |
| 20:34.10 | joshh | most places |
| 20:34.16 | joshh | but still, what a joke |
| 20:34.26 | joshh | 35k is taco bell pay |
| 20:34.44 | youtah | Jayce^, is that link SFW? (giggles) |
| 20:34.48 | Tod-Work | I'm sure a lot of TB employees wish for 35k |
| 20:34.50 | unum | joshh: that would be 18k |
| 20:35.11 | unum | 35k is just out of junior/for profit college pay |
| 20:35.22 | jlp_znc | http://www.xkcd.com/1489/ <- fundamental forces |
| 20:35.46 | joshh | well, minimum wage around here is like 12 an hour |
| 20:36.05 | joshh | dunno if fast food pays minimum or not |
| 20:36.06 | Jayce^ | youtah: it's government, so probably not.. |
| 20:36.08 | jlp_znc | joshh: yeah, because minimum tax there is, like, 35% |
| 20:36.14 | Tod-Work | If you have a CS degree and you just graduated, you are worth 60k+. Do not accept less unless you still suck somehow (and we will all know soon enough) |
| 20:36.20 | Tod-Work | and that's in Utah |
| 20:37.00 | jlp_znc | my first real job after college paid $16,200/year |
| 20:37.05 | jlp_znc | in utah |
| 20:37.15 | RyanE | when did you graduate? 1972? |
| 20:37.24 | jlp_znc | 1986 |
| 20:37.26 | unum | minium wage here is 7.25, I don't know about fast food but my employer pays 7.50 |
| 20:37.35 | jlp_znc | within two years I was at $36k |
| 20:37.40 | joshh | 7.50 for what? |
| 20:38.12 | unum | calling people for surveys |
| 20:38.18 | joshh | that's like 4 hours of work to fill up a decent size gas tank |
| 20:38.26 | joshh | half your day |
| 20:38.35 | unum | conviently located near the uta transfer hub in orem :) |
| 20:38.41 | Tod-Work | , having enjoyed this little distraction, goes back to the python |
| 20:39.04 | joshh | ya, it is funny to talk about how to properly root out timewasters over irc |
| 20:39.19 | joshh | but i've gotten like 8 things done today already |
| 20:39.29 | jlp_znc | "the python"... is that anything like "the twitter"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12y0CMSY4IE |
| 20:39.58 | unum | I still have to figure out why I'm getting an error when trying to mirror salt with reprepro |
| 20:40.03 | unum | I should just email the guy |
| 20:40.55 | joshh | use debmirror |
| 20:41.49 | joshh | not familiar with reprepro though |
| 20:42.04 | unum | had everything else working |
| 20:42.06 | joshh | other than hearing it |
| 20:42.22 | unum | but it does not like the one repository |
| 20:42.44 | unum | I think I originally used reprepro because it allows partial mirroring and I need a very limited set of packages |
| 20:43.02 | unum | but then I was to lazy to create the filter list anyways |
| 20:52.00 | *** join/#utah neanderslob (~quassel@c-76-23-38-21.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:53.39 | goozbach | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oht9AEq1798#t=40 |
| 20:55.21 | fozzmoo | I think Jayce is gonna like that. |
| 20:55.26 | fozzmoo | Jayce^: ^^ |
| 20:56.05 | Jayce^ | lol |
| 20:56.16 | Jayce^ | need to get seth to watch it |
| 21:14.09 | *** join/#utah metacortex (~metacorte@193.105.134.32) |
| 21:22.40 | *** join/#utah bgerber (~gerberb@suse103.zenez.com) |
| 21:28.55 | jalbretsen | oh goody goody, I get to talk to Dell |
| 21:29.08 | jalbretsen | and beg them to send a tech out that knows what they are doing |
| 21:31.59 | spangborn | http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/new-macbook-smaller-than-raspberry-pi/ |
| 21:53.06 | jlp_znc | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BnLbv6QYcA |
| 21:53.58 | *** join/#utah RuShan (~RuShan@68.69.169.116) |
| 21:56.16 | bregalad | http://url.horse/ |
| 21:56.27 | bregalad | can play the url game too |
| 21:56.54 | spangborn | Doesn't matter how many times you post that. |
| 21:56.56 | spangborn | I continue to click it. |
| 21:57.01 | bregalad | lol |
| 21:57.02 | spangborn | And be disappointed when it displays nothing. |
| 21:58.23 | bregalad | spangborn: you know it's yours to buy and setup accordingly |
| 21:59.18 | spangborn | Only $120! |
| 21:59.24 | spangborn | Sheesh. |
| 22:02.14 | spangborn | Puppycam: https://www.dropcam.com/live-demos/attractions/more-puppies |
| 22:03.28 | spangborn | I've been tempted to pickup a Dropcam just for kicks. |
| 22:20.40 | *** join/#utah kendsnyder (~Adium@65-130-26-3.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:47.58 | shalkie | jalbretsen: You should take this opportunity to learn all their Dell wisdoms... Retention is completely optional. |
| 23:08.01 | jalbretsen | shalkie: I did learn some wisdom. Find and do everything on the same web page that their help desk looks at to answer your chat. |
| 23:08.32 | jalbretsen | the conversation goes much faster. Instead of roadblocks to send me replacement parts, I just get right to giving them my address. |
| 23:23.02 | *** join/#utah jima (jima@laughton.us) |
| 23:32.55 | shalkie | Is it just me or does Fox13 live streaming suck the suck of extra sucky live streaming services? |
| 23:33.24 | shalkie | I.E. I get to see commericials and otherwise only a We'll Be Right back! |
| 23:34.25 | shalkie | Oh if only Sling.com worked in Linux. :( |
| 23:37.36 | shalkie | Never mind, got it for like 2 seconds. |
