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| 06:35.48 | RyanE | [A |
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| 16:00.19 | spangborn | Z] |
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| 16:49.10 | asoc | spangborn: why not include [B-Y] as well? |
| 16:49.55 | spangborn | Valid point. ;p |
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| 18:12.03 | romanovic | anyone here use hipchat, or another persistent team chat solution? |
| 18:12.35 | romanovic | There are enough grumblings at work about poor communication that people are finally looking at new chat solutions |
| 18:13.52 | romanovic | so now is a good time to sell it to our first-line managers, but I want to research alternatives first |
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| 18:41.36 | programmerq | slack! |
| 18:41.52 | programmerq | campfire < hipchat < < < slack |
| 18:42.19 | programmerq | I've used them all, granted it's been the longest since I used campfire. |
| 18:42.30 | programmerq | we had to pay for third party clients to get a desktop app worth anything for campfire. |
| 18:42.40 | romanovic | interesting. |
| 18:42.43 | programmerq | hipchat is "too atlassian-ey" if that makes sense. |
| 18:42.49 | youtah | I just ate an entire settebello pizza |
| 18:42.49 | programmerq | slack is my overall favorite. |
| 18:42.58 | youtah | Hey! |
| 18:42.59 | youtah | I love Slack |
| 18:43.02 | romanovic | haven't used atlassian enough to understand |
| 18:43.07 | romanovic | So, why slack over hipchat? |
| 18:43.20 | youtah | I also like Atlassian too |
| 18:43.23 | romanovic | They look very similar, but i haven't been able to find any self-hosted Slack server option |
| 18:43.33 | youtah | the *only* problem with them is that they code everything upside down |
| 18:43.36 | romanovic | which might be a deal breaker |
| 18:43.51 | programmerq | you might have to ask a sales person at slack |
| 18:43.58 | programmerq | they are still a startup, so they move fairly quickly |
| 18:44.19 | programmerq | they are getting to the point that they should be at least thinking about the enterprise self-hosted stuff. |
| 18:44.35 | programmerq | one nice thing about slack is they have a gateway for you to connect to it with an IRC client. |
| 18:45.42 | romanovic | nice |
| 18:45.43 | jsmith | romanovic: You really don't want employees using hipchat or slack -- they'll spend too much time sending each other animated gifs, and not getting any work done |
| 18:46.09 | romanovic | jsmith: do you work on a team that has had that experience? |
| 18:46.38 | programmerq | if that is going to be a problem, then you have done your hiring very wrong. |
| 18:46.49 | jsmith | romanovic: Not directly -- but I use both Hipchat and Slack for interfacing with various teams (some of them open source projects) |
| 18:46.54 | romanovic | ah |
| 18:47.35 | jsmith | romanovic: I think goofing off in Hipchat, in particular, caused several people to find themselves with a lot of free time on their hands :-) |
| 18:51.17 | romanovic | and we do have personalities like that where I work. however, they already spend time moving from cubicle to cubicle to visit |
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| 18:51.46 | romanovic | they might do the same on group chat (probably already do on our IM), but at least they'd leave us in peace and quiet |
| 18:51.58 | romanovic | and mgmt would have a concrete record of their slacking |
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| 18:57.16 | unum | I'm curios what do these services give you that your IM doesn't |
| 18:57.37 | unum | maybe it's the persistant part I'm missing |
| 18:57.45 | unum | people can login anytime and see what was said? |
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| 19:07.18 | youtah | So. |
| 19:07.22 | youtah | Sup. |
| 19:07.24 | youtah | Yo. |
| 19:07.27 | youtah | Diggity. |
| 19:07.29 | youtah | Dig. |
| 19:07.39 | youtah | s/Dig./Dog./ |
| 19:07.45 | youtah | Home. |
| 19:07.47 | youtah | Slice. |
| 19:07.59 | youtah | Cheese. |
| 19:08.02 | youtah | Cake. |
| 19:08.07 | youtah | Butter. |
| 19:08.11 | youtah | Scotch. |
| 19:09.47 | romanovic | unum: yes, we have no group chat, only IM |
| 19:11.25 | romanovic | unum: particularly what we are missing is topical chat. our teams are all seated together and communicate well. but developers on different teams who are working on parallel issues are reinventing the wheel over and over again because they don't talk to each other |
| 19:12.59 | romanovic | for example, front-end devs are encountering challenges as we're adopting AngularJS, but only the devs on their team see those challenges |
| 19:14.10 | romanovic | then two weeks later, they'll talk to a front-end dev from another team who will say "oh yeah, we encountered and solved that issue weeks ago, it's a shame we didn't connect earlier" |
| 19:15.22 | romanovic | neither IM nor email chains do the job. you are dependent on the emailer or inviter to pull all interested parties into the discussion |
| 19:16.30 | romanovic | persistent group chat allows anyone join all topics that concern them, and newcomers can see the full chat history |
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| 19:26.40 | harleypig | Yay for bogus fire alarms! |
| 19:26.54 | RyanE | you got to see that bright ball of fire in the sky? |
| 19:27.03 | fozzmoo | ~lart youtah |
| 19:27.03 | infobot | frags youtah with his BFG9000 |
| 19:27.22 | harleypig | ? Nope ... just had the fire alarm go off. We waited for a few minutes then we could go back inside. |
| 19:27.25 | harleypig | What ball of fire? |
| 19:27.51 | fozzmoo | Should we tell him about it? |
| 19:28.11 | fozzmoo | Nah- let him live out his life in ignorance. |
| 19:28.24 | fozzmoo | s/ignorance/bliss/ |
| 19:31.03 | bregalad | ~pinky |
| 19:31.03 | infobot | Narf! |
| 19:31.36 | bregalad | romanovic: we've really liked slack at saltstack |
| 19:32.46 | bregalad | romanovic: it's proprietary, so don't trust it, but it does have SSL IRC and XMPP gateways |
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| 19:34.21 | romanovic | that's cool |
| 19:34.36 | harleypig | fozzmoo: I'm blissfully ignorant about a lot of things. Some things I'm deliberately ignorant about. |
| 19:34.46 | bregalad | from what I've heard it's better than hipchat, which I've never used |
| 19:35.09 | bregalad | and it's magnificently better than skype, which I have |
| 19:36.25 | bregalad | when you already have google and apple smartypants TVs listening to your conference calls, what's another startup mining your chat history? |
| 19:37.09 | bregalad | s/conference calls/conference rooms/ |
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| 19:39.02 | RyanE | harleypig: if you didn't see the ball of fire, you must wear some pretty dark sunglasses. :) |
| 19:39.44 | harleypig | The problem with being a troll is that sometimes you can't tell when you're being trolled. |
| 19:40.03 | RyanE | and sometimes you can't tell that you're *being* a troll. :) |
| 19:43.36 | harleypig | ... uhh ... I'm not sure about that. If you don't know your trolling, is it really trolling? |
| 19:43.52 | RyanE | now you're just trolling. |
| 19:45.39 | harleypig | Am I? |
| 19:47.12 | Jayce^ | checks for the harleypig eliza bot |
| 19:47.21 | Jayce^ | "how does that make you feel" |
| 19:47.41 | harleypig | I'm tempted to recreate harleybot ... |
| 19:48.00 | harleypig | Now I'm reminded of Aaron ... |
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| 20:25.57 | Migs | I think if nobody's sure if you're trolling, that means you're a successful troll |
| 20:26.25 | bregalad | Migs: what about when nobody knows you're trolling? |
| 20:26.56 | bregalad | did you fail, or did you succeed in a larger way? |
| 20:27.25 | bregalad | what about when everybody knows you're trolling when you really aren't? |
| 20:27.37 | Migs | I think if nobody knows, that might still count as a failure. There's a fine line between being a troll, and just being an actual raging douche |
| 20:27.38 | bregalad | there's so much philosophy here |
| 20:28.40 | bregalad | my instinct is to construe everyone a trolloler and then downgrade from there if they fail to perform/produce quality content |
| 20:29.05 | bregalad | 'why are you wasting my time with nonhumor?' |
| 20:30.04 | harleypig | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdJR58uDtXk |
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| 20:45.33 | Migs | Let it goat |
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| 20:57.02 | youtah | Anyone know when the OpenWest website will show what talks are being done? |
| 21:01.26 | bregalad | I'm guessing Migs is usually very liberal with his goats then |
| 21:05.01 | asoc | youtah: They are already up. |
| 21:05.01 | asoc | http://www.openwest.org/schedule/ |
| 21:08.43 | Migs | oh there they are |
| 21:13.57 | Migs | wasn't SkiPHP going to be part of this? |
| 21:15.14 | Migs | is it just integrated into it? I see quite a few PHP sessions |
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| 21:21.35 | youtah | asoc .... links area great things to use on websites |
| 21:21.49 | youtah | asoc, there is not a *single* link to the schedule from the main page |
| 21:21.57 | youtah | We looked and looked, never found it. |
| 21:22.33 | asoc | Yea I know |
| 21:22.38 | youtah | thx btw for the info |
| 21:22.46 | youtah | I was just making a poo head comment |
| 21:22.51 | fozzmoo | ~lart youtah |
| 21:22.51 | infobot | resizes youtah's terminal to 40x24 |
| 21:22.57 | youtah | lol |
| 21:23.01 | asoc | I only found it because searched 'OpenWest' on Google and that was a sublink. |
| 21:23.31 | youtah | ^ jsmith ... work you magic on fixing the OpenWest homepage? |
| 21:23.48 | fozzmoo | youtah: Mention it to mindjuju |
| 21:23.55 | fozzmoo | (I think you just did.) |
| 21:24.18 | youtah | ping mindjuju |
| 21:24.43 | mindjuju | hi, skiphp is part of open west |
| 21:24.49 | mindjuju | err, OpenWest |
| 21:24.56 | bregalad | :) |
| 21:25.28 | mindjuju | is surprised he hasn't been attacked for mentioning php in #utah |
| 21:25.39 | fozzmoo | mindjuju: If you scroll up, you'll see youtah discovered there's not a link to the OpenWest schedule from the site home page. |
| 21:25.45 | fozzmoo | mindjuju: I was getting around to it |
| 21:25.47 | fozzmoo | ~lart PHP |
| 21:25.47 | infobot | hauls PHP up by the scruff of the neck and spanks him until he waddles |
| 21:26.23 | mindjuju | so fozz, i'll check with Steve, but I think he was waiting for a few more confirmations before it went live live |
| 21:26.39 | youtah | Ah |
| 21:29.52 | mindjuju | youtah: asoc Migs the schedule is good to go, have approval from steve |
| 21:30.05 | mindjuju | links it to the front page menu |
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| 21:30.53 | mindjuju | wow, one LART from #utah for php, either everybody is asleep or #utah has gotten soft ;) |
| 21:31.03 | Migs | awesome |
| 21:31.05 | mindjuju | gets out while the getting is good |
| 21:31.16 | Migs | just sent my boss an email to see if he'll pay for it |
| 21:36.23 | youtah | sending it to my boss |
| 21:36.29 | youtah | there are four of us who might go |
| 22:18.29 | *** join/#utah infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 22:18.29 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds | OpenWest Conference sometime 2014! openwest.org | https://fiber.google.com/cities/provo/ |
| 22:18.31 | *** mode/#utah [+o infobot] by ChanServ |
| 22:21.30 | goozbach | both of my talks are on Thurs! |
| 22:21.39 | goozbach | that means I can relax friday and sat! |
| 22:23.18 | jsmith | mindjuju: We're not going soft -- there's a PHP renaissance going on -- and it still powers the vast majority of the dynamic web (for better or for worse) |
| 22:27.22 | programmerq | it's true that php is improving, but calling it a renaissance seems like not quite the word I would choose. :) |
| 22:27.59 | programmerq | is there a word for "removing head from sand and looking around to see what the world is really like" ? |
| 22:27.59 | bregalad | I'm waiting for the coldfusion renaissance |
| 22:28.01 | programmerq | contemplates |
| 22:28.08 | programmerq | sure, let's call it a renaissance. |
| 22:28.10 | programmerq | :) |
| 22:28.28 | programmerq | I went to pay HOA fees, got a nasty coldfusion stacktrace |
| 22:28.48 | programmerq | and of course the folks that actually run the payment gateway are all like "huh?" |
| 22:28.56 | bregalad | the one thing I like more about irssi than weechat is that there was a plugin that allowed you to tab complete words |
| 22:29.14 | bregalad | programmerq: of course an HOA would be running broken coldfusion junk |
| 22:29.25 | bregalad | baasically if there is an HOA, stay away |
| 22:29.28 | bregalad | :-) |
| 22:29.40 | programmerq | eh, besides the coldfusion stacktrace, I've had a fairly pleasant experience. |
| 22:29.59 | programmerq | My neighborhood with the HOA is much nicer than the neighborhood without the HOA. |
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| 22:54.58 | youtah | aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa |
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| 22:59.10 | bregalad | programmerq: what value does the HOA give you? Is it worth the money and the accountability? |
| 22:59.25 | programmerq | bregalad: it's nice having a pool nearby |
| 22:59.40 | programmerq | the neighborhood doesn't look like garbage, which is nice. |
| 23:00.06 | programmerq | I'd say the cost of the HOA is worth of it because of the pool, basketball, tennis courts |
| 23:00.15 | programmerq | and the mini parks that are 6 and 14 houses away. |
| 23:00.40 | bregalad | my neighborhood has all of that |
| 23:00.58 | programmerq | bregalad: 2013 construction? |
| 23:01.20 | programmerq | pretty much, as far as I can tell, all the new construction developments have HOAs |
| 23:01.25 | programmerq | and we wanted brand new construction. |
| 23:01.30 | bregalad | except for the no trash thing, but that's worth it if it means there are authentic cultural experiences |
| 23:02.01 | bregalad | programmerq: no, I live in SLC |
| 23:02.21 | programmerq | overall, we're much happier here with the HOA than we were in our older neighborhood with no HOA |
| 23:02.27 | bregalad | we have several city parks and a county rec center nearby |
| 23:02.33 | programmerq | but at the time I would have told you that it was a huge advantage with the no HOA |
| 23:03.00 | programmerq | we still have city parks too. closest rec center is lehi though. |
| 23:03.22 | programmerq | having a pool in walking distance, and for the most part knowing everyone there is a nice thing to have. |
| 23:04.25 | bregalad | so the HOA forces you to know your neighbors? |
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| 23:14.16 | programmerq | no, but the HOA limits access to my immediate neighborhood, and I know many of the folks in my neighborhood |
| 23:14.28 | programmerq | where with a city pool, like when I was in provo, we'd go and know nobody. |
| 23:14.36 | programmerq | since it was city-wide |
| 23:14.48 | programmerq | and not 4 streets |
| 23:15.06 | programmerq | I guess it's more like 6 |
| 23:18.05 | bregalad | does it feel more like a coop or like you're subject to an arbitrary authority or both? |
| 23:19.41 | RyanE | do you mean 'coop', or 'co-op'? |
| 23:19.47 | RyanE | maybe both. :) |
| 23:20.06 | joshh | i loathe HOAs |
| 23:20.26 | joshh | whatever good they are supposed to do in theory, is not worth the reality of them |
| 23:20.44 | RyanE | I'm not a fan of anyone who I have to pay in order that they can tell me to cut my grass. |
| 23:21.09 | RyanE | In practice, though, I assume they're probably OK until some tin-pot dictator gets put in charge. |
| 23:21.26 | bregalad | RyanE: or a critical mass of busybody neighbors |
| 23:21.48 | RyanE | s/dictator/dictator(s)/g |
| 23:22.11 | programmerq | bregalad: I read through all the rules and knew what I was getting into when I signed. |
| 23:22.45 | programmerq | I don't worry about the HOA too much. |
| 23:23.10 | programmerq | I filed a design plan when I put grass in. honestly, having a set of guidelines was nice when trying to figure out what the heck to do for the backyard. |
| 23:23.18 | programmerq | (I'm not a design/plant guy) |
| 23:23.38 | RyanE | The houses going in behind me have restrictive covenants that apply to the *inside* of their house. |
| 23:23.45 | programmerq | wow |
| 23:23.48 | RyanE | i.e. can't have laminate / solid surface countertops. |
| 23:23.51 | joshh | RyanE: there's always a psychopathic busybody that gets in charge though |
| 23:23.59 | joshh | because what other kind of people want that sort of power |
| 23:24.01 | RyanE | joshh: given enough time, it's likely |
| 23:24.14 | programmerq | there is a management company that handle it |
| 23:24.54 | joshh | also they are often expensive |
| 23:24.55 | RyanE | that's got to mitigate some of the worst concerns. |
| 23:29.56 | bregalad | from everything I've ever seen and experienced, it seems that HOA's were probably invented by whitie flighties afraid of poor minorities diluting the homogeneity of their existence |
| 23:31.53 | joshh | thats why they hate driveway basketball hoops |
| 23:35.33 | RyanE | ha! |