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| 08:48.45 | bregalad | ~napoleon |
| 08:48.45 | infobot | Just listen to your heart. That's what I do. |
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| 16:48.27 | levi | Yo. |
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| 16:48.41 | sjansen | Sup? |
| 16:49.14 | eightyeight | ~linux |
| 16:49.17 | infobot | Real games for linux...Linux lacks on graphic tools too...Yeah gimp is good... |
| 16:54.43 | youtah | http://imgur.com/gallery/n1a0hFI |
| 16:54.59 | youtah | Morning all! |
| 16:55.14 | RyanE | mornin' |
| 16:57.25 | levi | It's a bit of a blah day. |
| 16:57.35 | Jayce^ | so element14 is slammed.. how am I supposed to get my Pi-2 ?? |
| 16:58.06 | levi | What's new in Pi-2? |
| 16:58.08 | Jayce^ | youtah: what's even more funny is that clip is from last nights episode.. quite funny |
| 16:58.16 | Jayce^ | arm7, quad-core 900mhz |
| 16:58.19 | Jayce^ | and 1gb ram |
| 16:58.27 | Jayce^ | tried to have everything else be the same |
| 16:58.42 | Jayce^ | same video, because it's the only/most open one |
| 16:58.49 | Jayce^ | http://www.raspberrypi.org/raspberry-pi-2-on-sale/ |
| 16:59.00 | Jayce^ | oh yeah, now has windows 10 support.. |
| 16:59.15 | asoc | Wait Pi-2? :-O |
| 17:08.03 | levi | Well, R-pi is a bit more interesting now. Should improve its performance as a TV media box a bit, at least in the UI department. |
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| 17:10.12 | levi | BBB is likely still better for non-media stuff, unless you really have something interesting to do with the other cores. |
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| 17:20.46 | levi | People don't seem to get that the RPi Foundation most likely has 0 input into the actual hardware features. They're basically skimming off obsolete set-top-box chips that no one else wants and building little computers around them. |
| 17:21.54 | levi | Broadcom just doesn't work with little companies and non-profits on their chip designs. |
| 17:21.58 | eightyeight | i've wondered how much, if any, the cost would drop if they replaced the hdmi out with displayport |
| 17:22.32 | levi | It would undoubtedly go up. |
| 17:22.35 | eightyeight | IE: if the cost of the dport hardware would offset the costs of the hdmi hardware + hdmi licensing |
| 17:23.59 | levi | You have to understand that, from Broadcom's perspective, the number of chips going into RPis is *miniscule*. The point of the chip was to be a set-top-box, and thus HDMI is a requirement. |
| 17:24.28 | bregalad | so I have an email account with google, jfindlay@gmail.com, and this morning, this happens: https://gist.github.com/jfindlay/dd8e64206d140f86fc59 |
| 17:24.57 | levi | It was probably designed to meet the specs of some cable or satellite box or something like that. |
| 17:25.11 | bregalad | basically, a message sent to 'j.findlay@gmail.com', at least according to the headers, gets sent to jfindlay@gmail.com |
| 17:26.03 | bregalad | I don't understand how this could happen, if their email system screwed up the message, google's receiving server will at least modify the headers to show that it got delivered to jfindlay@gmail.com, right? |
| 17:26.35 | levi | In order to have an RPi with DisplayPort, there would have to have *already* been some *huge* market for a device like a set-top-box that has a display port, and there's no such market right now, much less a couple of years ago. |
| 17:26.50 | asoc | I just added a . after the first letter of my gmail and it delivered it. |
| 17:27.01 | levi | bregalad: Gmail parsing of periods in email addresses is special. |
| 17:27.52 | bregalad | levi: why? Why does google break standards? |
| 17:27.56 | asoc | Special as in it can ignore them? |
| 17:28.07 | bregalad | stupid google |
| 17:28.18 | bregalad | levi: confirmed :-( |
| 17:29.11 | levi | eightyeight: Basically, the 'features' in a SoC are only very loosely correlated with price. If a feature set happens to coincide with a huge market, then the chip will be cheap. If it corresponds to a small market, even if there are fewer or cheaper features involved, it will be expensive. |
| 17:30.02 | eightyeight | fair enough |
| 17:31.41 | levi | As I work for a relatively large company, I have worked with Broadcom before on getting features into chips. It was incredibly difficult, and the effort ended up mostly a failure, because we just didn't represent a big enough market vs. the cell phone market. |
| 17:32.22 | levi | And this was with the support of certain groups *within* Broadcom. |
| 17:33.20 | levi | The idea that the RPi Foundation had *any* say over what's in the RPi hardware is just ridiculous to me. |
| 17:33.58 | bregalad | levi: but if all you need is a cheap, little computer, why does it matter? |
| 17:36.39 | RuShan | You buy another companies board like the BBB or odroid |
| 17:38.10 | levi | bregalad: Well, it doesn't matter much if that's all you need. But there are a number of things that'd make RPi a lot better at being a cheap little computer that don't happen, like better USB support. |
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| 17:38.47 | bregalad | levi: they can solve that by soldering on a bunch of cosmetic usb ports |
| 17:38.51 | bregalad | :) |
| 17:46.33 | jlp_znc | bregalad: FYI, dot characters in gmail accounts are totally ignored |
| 17:46.56 | jlp_znc | so, as far as gmail is concerned, jfindlay == j.findlay == j.f.i.n.d.l.a.y |
| 17:47.26 | bregalad | == j...................findlay? |
| 17:47.30 | jlp_znc | indeed |
| 17:47.54 | jlp_znc | you can filter on LHS with dots, though |
| 17:48.08 | jlp_znc | ugh, that didn't look as well as I'd hoped |
| 17:48.47 | eightyeight | afaik, rfc 6531 prevents sequential dots in the local part of the email address |
| 17:49.02 | eightyeight | dunno if google adheres to that part of the rfc though |
| 17:49.09 | jlp_znc | I thought the LHS was totally open for local MDA interpretation |
| 17:50.02 | jlp_znc | plain bold plain underlined plain inverted plain |
| 17:50.07 | eightyeight | er, rfc 5322 |
| 17:50.11 | eightyeight | https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5322 |
| 17:51.20 | eightyeight | ignore me |
| 17:53.18 | jlp_znc | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:53.53 | jlp_znc | I think the intention is to avoid leading or trailing dots. |
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| 17:54.28 | eightyeight | https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5322#section-3.2.3 |
| 17:54.30 | eightyeight | indeed |
| 17:55.01 | jlp_znc | but the 1*atext inside the parens seems to indicate that some non-dot character should be there |
| 17:55.14 | eightyeight | "atext" is defined |
| 17:55.27 | jlp_znc | right, to not include the dot character |
| 17:55.51 | eightyeight | or '@', obviously |
| 17:56.04 | jlp_znc | see the definition of specials for what is not in atext |
| 17:56.08 | eightyeight | indeed |
| 17:56.38 | jlp_znc | but I think you are correct in that it appears to prohibit dots without intervening atext |
| 17:56.40 | eightyeight | so the localpart cannot start with '.', cannot have more than 1 '.' sequentially, and cannot end in a '.' |
| 17:56.48 | eightyeight | if i'm reading that correctly |
| 17:56.58 | jlp_znc | that's the way I read it |
| 17:57.14 | jlp_znc | sounds like gmail's impl is non-compliant! |
| 17:57.19 | jlp_znc | gasps |
| 17:57.39 | eightyeight | but is 'j..findlay@gmail.com' valid? will gmail deliver that to 'j.findlay@gmail.com'? |
| 17:57.46 | jlp_znc | let's find out |
| 17:57.47 | eightyeight | or bounce it? |
| 17:58.25 | jlp_znc | or silently drop it. bregalad? did you get a test e-mail from me a minute ago? |
| 17:58.46 | eightyeight | i just tested my email. it gets delivered |
| 17:58.49 | jlp_znc | it does not appear to have bounced |
| 17:59.33 | bregalad | jlp_znc: indeed I did |
| 18:00.00 | eightyeight | trailing and leading dots also get delivered |
| 18:00.01 | jlp_znc | well, then, there we go. submit gmail to that non-compliant blacklist place |
| 18:00.50 | jlp_znc | I think I'm going to go get a tasty beverage to celebrate |
| 18:01.11 | eightyeight | i guess that could be a great way to filter out who is selling your email, without using plus-addressing |
| 18:04.53 | jlp_znc | gmail does support plus addressing, too. but so many many web sites do not it makes me cry. |
| 18:05.13 | eightyeight | indeed |
| 18:06.01 | jlp_znc | I used to try to educate them. I would e-mail links to appropriate RFCs to webmaster@, but now I just use a special throw-away e-mail address: yoursiteisbroken@peterson.ath.cx |
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| 18:06.13 | jlp_znc | I never look at that mailbox |
| 18:06.50 | bregalad | if you had to setup an email server, what would you use? |
| 18:06.59 | bregalad | I was looking at postfix last night |
| 18:07.11 | jlp_znc | I use postfix. |
| 18:07.24 | bregalad | seemed like the best option from the list of options that don't try to sell you something |
| 18:07.31 | jlp_znc | postfix, postgresql, and dovecot (with sieve extension). |
| 18:07.37 | bregalad | which is exactly what I want to get away from |
| 18:07.51 | bregalad | I'm done with google reading all my messages |
| 18:08.15 | jlp_znc | or mysql, if you lean that way. |
| 18:08.26 | bregalad | why not sqlite? |
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| 18:08.49 | jlp_znc | never thought about it... sqlite would probably be fine, too. |
| 18:09.23 | jlp_znc | http://www.dovecot.org/list/dovecot/2012-February/133734.html |
| 18:09.38 | youtah | zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
| 18:09.44 | jlp_znc | didn't ibot used to tell us the title of URLs? or was that brigham? |
| 18:09.46 | youtah | that's about all I have to say atm |
| 18:10.03 | eightyeight | jlp_znc: it was <brac> |
| 18:10.11 | eightyeight | which i haven't seen around in a while |
| 18:10.13 | eightyeight | ~seen brac |
| 18:10.15 | infobot | i haven't seen 'brac', eightyeight |
| 18:10.28 | jlp_znc | brac, that's it. I think brac was lost in a disk crash on some cs.byu.edu machine |
| 18:10.53 | jlp_znc | someone didn't have backups. "someone". |
| 18:11.00 | eightyeight | i thought it was <elg>s bot? |
| 18:11.01 | jlp_znc | (I don't know who that someone was) |
| 18:11.24 | bregalad | it seems that infobot's memory was erased when it got changed from ibot |
| 18:11.39 | bregalad | or it's just another astrodroid altogether |
| 18:11.59 | jlp_znc | I thought infobot was a blootbot? |
| 18:12.18 | bregalad | jlp_znc: so was ibot |
| 18:12.31 | bregalad | ~napoleon |
| 18:12.32 | infobot | Pedro offers you his protection. |
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| 18:41.00 | youtah | http://imgur.com/gallery/MNKOY1M |
| 18:43.15 | youtah | and for jlp_znc http://i.imgur.com/CoIhD9L.jpg |
| 18:45.35 | jlp_znc | heh heh |
| 18:49.46 | youtah | and for Jayce^ "Seattle, would you like to win the Superbowl? No Thanks, I'll Pass." |
| 18:50.18 | jlp_znc | poor poor Seattle |
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| 19:50.21 | goozbach | ~youtah++ |
| 20:09.22 | youtah | lol, thanks goozbach |
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| 20:30.59 | jlp_znc | Jayce^, neybar_work_: http://www.mobilinkd.com/ <- that bluetooth TNC I was telling you about |
| 20:37.12 | jlp_znc | $65 for the TNC, $9.95 for the cable for a Baofeng UV-3R, and $30 for a UV-3R and you're APRSing for $105 (plus your existing android phone) |
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| 20:40.05 | jlp_znc | add $10 for shipping, I guess |
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| 20:58.54 | jsmith | jlp_znc: Funny, I was looking at the TNC-2 there earlier today, after my county emergency communications department gave some awesome packet training over the weekend. |
| 20:59.26 | jsmith | jlp_znc: Then again, I was also wondering if a software TNC (something like dire-wolf) might not work in the short-term |
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| 21:02.20 | bregalad | jsmith: do you know anything about the epel maintainers? |
| 21:02.37 | bregalad | like, why did they remove python2.6 from epel5? |
| 21:02.43 | jlp_znc | well, aprsdroid does include a software TNC, but getting a reliable PTT out to the radio is a problem. |
| 21:02.50 | bregalad | were they thinking at the time? :-) |
| 21:03.41 | jlp_znc | VOX |
| 21:04.16 | jlp_znc | which sucks for APRS if the frequency is moderately busy. |
| 21:04.19 | jsmith | bregalad: I know a bit about EPEL, but don't have a clue on that particular point |
| 21:04.25 | jsmith | jlp_znc: Yeah :-( |
| 21:04.50 | jsmith | jlp_znc: I'm just having a hard time understanding why a KCP-3 is so stinkin' expensive... |
| 21:05.11 | jsmith | jlp_znc: (never mind the fact that it only as 512k memory, with the upgrade!) |
| 21:05.26 | jlp_znc | APRSdroid connection protocols supported: TCP connection, UDP (send only), HTTP POST (send only), AFSK via speaker/mic, bluetooth TNC, Kenwood GPS port, or TCP/IP TNC. |
| 21:05.56 | jlp_znc | Kantronics used to be the only game in town and they think they still are. |
| 21:06.34 | jlp_znc | $200 from HRO, ridiculous. |
| 21:06.41 | jlp_znc | (for teh KPC-3+) |
| 21:06.46 | jlp_znc | s/teh/the/ |
| 21:07.55 | jsmith | Exactly my point... Can't I build something similar on a beaglebone for around $80, with much better functionality, more storage, oh, and a freakin stand-alone operating system? |
| 21:08.07 | jsmith | I mean... just sayin'..... |
| 21:08.29 | jsmith | If only I had a year of free time... |
| 21:09.30 | jlp_znc | http://tnc-x.com/ |
| 21:09.54 | jlp_znc | check out the TNC-Pi |
| 21:10.22 | jlp_znc | or the TNC-Black for the Beaglebone Black |
| 21:12.34 | jlp_znc | http://tnc-x.com/twoPi.jpg <- Pi with two TNC-Pis stacked |
| 21:13.02 | jlp_znc | add a couple of cheap radios and bam! you've got yourself a multi-frequency digipeater. |
| 21:14.51 | jlp_znc | would make it pretty feasible to build one of these setups: http://www.aprs.org/digi-ultimate.html |
| 21:15.55 | *** join/#utah siel (~siel@unaffiliated/motley) |
| 21:17.28 | jlp_znc | great thing to put in the comm vehicle/trailer for an emcomm situation |
| 21:17.49 | Jayce^ | hrmmm.. maybe an openwest hackathon.. jsmith brings the hardware? :) |
| 21:17.55 | Jayce^ | we'll have some radio's around to play with |
| 21:18.20 | jlp_znc | :-) |
| 21:19.08 | jsmith | Jayce^: I'll bring the beaglebones if you bring the radios... |
| 21:19.46 | Jayce^ | got 'em |
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| 21:47.51 | skinner | Does this group meet monthly? |
| 21:50.20 | eightyeight | which group? |
| 21:50.39 | skinner | sorry...lol.....Provo linux users group |
| 21:50.42 | RyanE | yep |
| 21:52.34 | RyanE | http://plug.org |
| 21:53.48 | skinner | Perfect. Thanks RyanE! |
| 21:54.27 | RyanE | np |
| 22:06.26 | jima | wait, this is one of those dirty hippie channels? |
| 22:14.14 | RyanE | heh |
| 22:14.21 | RyanE | welcome to the commune |
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| 23:09.19 | bregalad | RyanE: actually, the term for group is abelian |
| 23:09.38 | goozbach | how does one troubleshoot typing into a terminal |
| 23:09.44 | goozbach | something like xev for the terminal |
| 23:09.58 | bregalad | rings, fields, vector spaces, categories, etc. are still 'commutative' though |
| 23:19.34 | jlp_znc | goozbach: what type of terminal? what platform? I generally use typescript or some screen/tmux variant for that sort of thing. |
| 23:19.54 | jlp_znc | but there are utilities like "snoop" that can do it at the driver level. |
| 23:20.40 | jlp_znc | ttysnoop(8) |
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| 23:24.33 | goozbach | iterm2 on osx |
| 23:24.41 | jlp_znc | hmmm |
| 23:24.46 | goozbach | ctrl-up is getting eaten somewhere |
| 23:24.52 | goozbach | want to see if it gets to the terminal |
| 23:24.57 | goozbach | it got through to xev |
| 23:25.15 | jlp_znc | bsd has "watch"... I don't know if macos has that |
| 23:25.25 | jlp_znc | http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=watch&sektion=8&manpath=FreeBSD+4.6-RELEASE |
| 23:26.05 | jlp_znc | note: watch on BSD and linux are totally different animals |
| 23:27.49 | jlp_znc | iterm has a "log" function. don't know how good/useful it is |
| 23:28.06 | eightyeight | script(1) ftw |
| 23:28.28 | eightyeight | part of the 'bsdutils' package on debian |
| 23:28.54 | jlp_znc | I'm not sure what they would do with "C-UP", though. what keycode would that equate to? |
| 23:29.15 | jlp_znc | UP probably maps to some escape sequence |
| 23:29.28 | bregalad | goozbach: install noscript |
| 23:29.30 | jlp_znc | try just running "cat -v" in a terminal |
| 23:29.31 | goozbach | jlp_znc: it's supossed to be "up arrow" |
| 23:29.47 | jlp_znc | I don't know of an ascii "up arrow" character |
| 23:30.16 | jlp_znc | if I hit the up arrow, my terminal receives ESC [ A, which is the ANSI up arrow sequence |
| 23:30.27 | jlp_znc | (cursor positioning sequence) |
| 23:30.31 | goozbach | cat -v is the winner |
| 23:30.34 | goozbach | !!! |
| 23:30.36 | goozbach | did that |
| 23:30.42 | goozbach | and saw it was going to the term |
| 23:30.55 | goozbach | which I then did ctrl-v and pasted keycode into the vimrc |
| 23:31.10 | jlp_znc | how did you get mission control to not intercept it? |
| 23:31.24 | jlp_znc | but, hey, whatever works, right? |
| 23:36.05 | goozbach | unclicked in sysstem-prefrences->keyboard->shortcuts |
| 23:36.35 | jlp_znc | I guess you could always remap it, too, so you don't lose the mission control functionality |
| 23:36.47 | goozbach | meh |
| 23:36.48 | goozbach | don't use it |
| 23:37.08 | goozbach | and can I say it's awesome to be able to walk two offices down and talk face-t0-face! |
| 23:40.56 | jlp_znc | indeed! |
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| 23:57.57 | goozbach | ok weirdest thing. |
| 23:58.18 | goozbach | on my other mac laptop, the only thing I had to do was disable missioncontrol and the mapping worked! |
| 23:58.19 | goozbach | grrr |
