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| 17:21.20 | goozbach | morning |
| 17:22.18 | bregalad | ~pondering |
| 17:22.19 | infobot | Uh, I think so, Brain, but balancing a family and a career ... ooh, it's all too much for me. |
| 17:22.29 | jlp_znc | ~worf |
| 17:22.29 | infobot | Less talk - more synthehol! |
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| 17:26.34 | eightyeight | ~nacho |
| 17:26.34 | infobot | Tonight I wrestle the seven strongest men in town, maybe the world. |
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| 17:27.21 | sjansen | ~rlart |
| 17:27.21 | infobot | beats magmu senseless with a 50lb Unix manual |
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| 17:34.40 | eightyeight | only 50lb? that seems like just section 1 of the manpages |
| 17:34.47 | eightyeight | about section 8? |
| 17:37.06 | jlp_znc | anyone remember the infamous VMS "wall of documentation"? |
| 17:37.48 | jlp_znc | http://www.jargon.net/jargonfile/b/BigGrayWall.html |
| 17:38.14 | Jayce^ | touched VMS my freshman year.. then never had to again, thankfully |
| 17:38.34 | jlp_znc | VMS actually isn't that bad. it's just a different paradigm |
| 17:39.14 | jlp_znc | the whole "you get one process... maybe two if you're allowed to run something detached" model takes a little getting used to. |
| 17:39.15 | Jayce^ | the only way to get net access that year was through the VMS systems |
| 17:39.34 | jlp_znc | but the VMS priv system puts Unix's "you're root, or you're not" model to shame. |
| 17:41.00 | eightyeight | SELinux addresses the root/non-root paradigm, although it's not fully utilized |
| 17:41.09 | eightyeight | (in practice) |
| 17:42.25 | jlp_znc | does anyone actually use SELinux's granular permissions? |
| 17:43.29 | eightyeight | does anyone actually run it in practice? more often than not, i've seen it fully disabled |
| 17:43.58 | eightyeight | although, Android takes use of the granular permissions by default |
| 17:47.09 | bregalad | it's a change that breaks the way so many applications are designed to run |
| 17:48.32 | jlp_znc | yeah, that's been my experience, too. we are so used to just making due with group permission schemes that we just figure out ways to accomplish what we want with what we've got. I don't think I've ever seen filesystem ACLs effectively used in Unix/Linux, either (with the exception of their use in AFS) |
| 17:49.07 | eightyeight | FACLs just subvertly over-complicate troubleshooting permissions anyway |
| 17:49.09 | bregalad | even running fedora with selinux enabled is kind of like running windows with fail dialogs popping out all the time and you having to manually approve specific behaviors by specific apps as if you're fighting against a web nanny filter |
| 18:02.05 | jima | i used to disable selinux. i haven't for the last ~5 years, except as an extreme last resort. |
| 18:02.29 | jima | new policies are not that hard to generate via audit2allow -< |
| 18:02.31 | jima | -M |
| 18:02.53 | bregalad | jima: yes, that's not too much trouble |
| 18:03.20 | bregalad | it's when I spend half an hour generating and activating policy after policy |
| 18:03.27 | bregalad | and then just give up |
| 18:04.30 | bregalad | maybe there's a way to tell selinux 'just basically note all the things I'm going to do for the next 5 minutes as allowable actions' |
| 18:05.11 | jima | run in permissive mode, dump the auditd log into audit2allow? :-) |
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| 18:05.25 | eightyeight | the issue i've had in the past is proprietary software, such as Veritas Netbackup and Oracle databases |
| 18:05.30 | bregalad | I'll have to try that next time |
| 18:05.34 | bregalad | jima: thanks |
| 18:05.38 | eightyeight | modifying the policy takes a bit of work, but doable |
| 18:05.42 | jima | yeah, proprietary software + selinux = hell |
| 18:05.56 | eightyeight | which is why i've found most disable it |
| 18:05.58 | jima | bregalad: caveat, i've never thought to try that either, so i'm not 100% sure it'll work |
| 18:06.23 | jima | your use case suggestion just made the idea pop into my head |
| 18:06.28 | sjansen | That's how a lot of the original policy for Fedora was written. |
| 18:06.28 | eightyeight | also, auditd(8) is a bit of a resource hog, even for permissive mode |
| 18:06.42 | jima | is it? i thankfully haven't noticed. |
| 18:06.59 | sjansen | Of course your probably want to insert a "review policy for insane changes" step. |
| 18:07.50 | jima | sjansen: yeah, sorry. i do include that in my personal workflow. |
| 18:08.31 | jima | audit2allow -M whatever1 < /var/log/audit/auditd.log, check whatever1.te, semodule -i whatever1.pp if it looks good |
| 18:08.37 | eightyeight | jima: yeah. we tried enabling selinux on an internal server, and hardening it down. but, it's a VM, and we found that auditd(8) was just killing it |
| 18:08.49 | jima | rotate auditd.log out so that my next run doesn't include the first run ;-) |
| 18:08.54 | eightyeight | after shutting that service down, all of the sudden, new life was breathed into it |
| 18:08.56 | eightyeight | heh |
| 18:09.23 | jima | weird. what the heck are you running your VMs on? a potato? :-) |
| 18:09.33 | eightyeight | :) |
| 18:09.55 | jima | i suppose we can't all have 12-core VM servers with 128gb of ram |
| 18:10.11 | jima | = spoiled |
| 18:10.34 | eightyeight | we gave the VM 4 cores with 4GB of RAM. it should behave fine |
| 18:10.43 | bregalad | eightyeight: are you coming to saltconf? |
| 18:10.47 | eightyeight | but then, there are things that work well for VMS, and things that don't |
| 18:10.56 | eightyeight | bregalad: no. when is it? |
| 18:11.01 | bregalad | next month |
| 18:11.31 | bregalad | http://saltconf.com/ |
| 18:12.08 | eightyeight | yeah. i won't be attending. when i depart XM for a conference, i want to to be relevant to my job and XMs future |
| 18:12.18 | eightyeight | salt is too focused of a conference for me to attend |
| 18:12.36 | bregalad | just wondering |
| 18:12.40 | eightyeight | no worries |
| 18:13.03 | jima | i won't be attending. my doctor told me to reduce my salt intake. |
| 18:13.25 | Jayce^ | you guys need to convert goozbach from ansible to salt before we'd have reason to really go :) |
| 18:19.24 | goozbach | not gonna happen |
| 18:20.15 | bregalad | haha |
| 18:20.55 | jima | goozbach is afraid of change. |
| 18:21.09 | jima | (i don't actually know that, it just seemed like the right personal attack.) |
| 18:21.46 | youtah | zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |
| 18:22.01 | youtah | looks like goozbach needs a cuddle burger from Jayce^ |
| 18:23.29 | bregalad | Jayce^: I'm wearing a bluehost shirt today :) |
| 18:23.45 | bregalad | I got it at openwest last year |
| 18:27.33 | Jayce^ | speaking of that, anybody have something they'd *really* like out of a free conference shirt this year? |
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| 18:27.47 | Jayce^ | they are wanting input from us on shirts |
| 18:28.03 | jalbretsen | I vote shirtless |
| 18:28.18 | Jayce^ | ... and harleypig will do it... |
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| 18:28.26 | bregalad | I have enough shirts to last me the next few years |
| 18:28.44 | Jayce^ | just wear some speakers playing "shake it off"... and dancing through the halls |
| 18:28.50 | tvc123 | oh please no ... no shirtless ... the result of 100 engineers that never see the sun would be blinding |
| 18:28.51 | bregalad | so, if you give me a shirt at openwest, expect to not see it on me until 2019 |
| 18:29.19 | bregalad | so think about whether you want your dated logo to embarrass you that far into the future |
| 18:29.27 | bregalad | or something |
| 18:39.40 | jima | it's ok, their hasselhoff-themed t-shirts will be trendy again by then |
| 18:40.24 | jima | otoh, the hoff might be dead by then, so maybe it'll be a tribute |
| 18:40.31 | bregalad | ~napoleon |
| 18:40.31 | infobot | Sweet! That's like a dollar an hour! |
| 18:42.21 | jima | i'm mocking my network guy for not being able to recite rfc1918 space off the top of his head |
| 18:45.06 | jlp_znc | did he at least get net-10 and the 192.168/16 networks? |
| 18:45.27 | jima | he looked at one of the other firewalls, where i defined the network object group |
| 18:45.27 | jlp_znc | I always have to go look up the class-B networks, myself. |
| 18:45.32 | bregalad | and the 172 net? |
| 18:45.34 | jima | 172.16.0.0/12 |
| 18:45.53 | jima | or 172.16.0.0/255.240.0.0 if your platform sucks |
| 18:46.05 | jlp_znc | :-) |
| 18:46.07 | bregalad | 172.16 is supposed to be reserved for VPN |
| 18:46.24 | jima | wat |
| 18:46.31 | jima | got a link to the rfc where that's stated? |
| 18:46.31 | jlp_znc | I never heard that |
| 18:48.02 | jima | i would agree that it's generally *better* to use it, as generic network equipment tends to default to the other two subnets, but i've never heard of it being reserved (beyond in rfc1918) |
| 18:48.32 | bregalad | I thought I read that in an RFC, but cannot now find it |
| 18:48.34 | bregalad | whatever |
| 18:54.41 | jima | one could argue that 198.18.0.0/15 was reversed for a similar purpose |
| 18:54.47 | jima | err, reserved |
| 18:55.55 | jima | (rfc2544) |
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| 19:40.52 | joshh | http://www.iana.org/assignments/iana-ipv4-special-registry/iana-ipv4-special-registry.xhtml |
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| 19:46.03 | joshh | but ya if he doesn't know at least the 3 rfc1918 thing's i'd be worried |
| 19:47.52 | eightyeight | i've also heard that 172.16.0.0/12 should be used for VPNs, but just from other network admins, and without them having the ability to backup their claim |
| 19:48.43 | eightyeight | one thing that is nice about it, is that it's out of the way of most "typical" subnets |
| 19:48.47 | eightyeight | but, it sucks typing out |
| 19:48.48 | joshh | get him in this channel so we can determine his worth |
| 19:50.05 | eightyeight | i went with 10.80.86.0/24 for my home NAT. because '8086' |
| 19:50.22 | eightyeight | i've also seen '10.19.84.0/24'. heh. |
| 19:50.49 | joshh | i've used 10.80/<huge stuff> at companies before, im a fan |
| 19:51.23 | jima | i work for a massive multinational. there are times when even 10/8 is a bit tight. |
| 19:51.30 | eightyeight | at my last job, the former network admin did '172.12.0.0/16' instead of '172.16.0.0/12' like it should have been. |
| 19:51.30 | jima | mergers are particularly brutal. |
| 19:51.39 | eightyeight | facepalm |
| 19:51.49 | joshh | lol |
| 19:52.13 | bregalad | ipv6 ftw |
| 19:52.19 | jima | my biggest problem with 172.16/12 is that too many people don't know where it ends. i inherited an environment with routes for 172.32/16 and 172.33/16. *double facepalm* |
| 19:52.31 | eightyeight | haha |
| 19:52.41 | jima | bregalad: i've been using ipv6 since...2001? 2002? |
| 19:52.55 | jima | it's actually a large part of how i got my current job. |
| 19:52.57 | joshh | "network admin" is one of the few cases where a title usually means little clue |
| 19:53.20 | jalbretsen | Someone should remind apple that we can use all of 10 I could not specify the second octet on our Airports. |
| 19:53.24 | joshh | or has any bearing on clue at all |
| 19:54.19 | jalbretsen | so if any of you are using the whole 10.80, you have to change it to 10.0 because that's the only option |
| 19:54.25 | joshh | when i hear network admin i think of a windows IT guy setting up a netgear switch |
| 19:54.41 | jalbretsen | just a heads up in case you were considering using Apple Wireless products |
| 19:55.35 | jalbretsen | joshh: I say that's the quote of the day |
| 20:00.36 | jima | my team just did a deployment using ubiquiti's unifi product line |
| 20:01.28 | jima | mostly remote, my boss (and his boss) did the physical deployment |
| 20:01.59 | jima | thank goodness our CIO has sufficient clue ;-) |
| 20:03.12 | Q_Continuum | I'm not even a network guy and I know 2 of the 3 RFC1918 spaces off the top of my head. I remember the third is 172.something and have to look it up; but I know its there. |
| 20:04.32 | jima | Q_Continuum: you should make fun of any network guys who can't recite them from memory |
| 20:06.04 | Q_Continuum | Are you implying there are some I should be making fun of? |
| 20:06.48 | Q_Continuum | (That I already know) |
| 20:06.49 | jima | < jima> i'm mocking my network guy for not being able to recite rfc1918 space off the top of his head |
| 20:06.57 | Q_Continuum | Oh I missed that line |
| 20:07.14 | jima | clearly. |
| 20:07.19 | Q_Continuum | I only read back so far |
| 20:07.30 | jima | does that mean i can applaud you for working? |
| 20:07.44 | jima | or that i should shame you for goofing off poorly? |
| 20:07.51 | Q_Continuum | Yes? |
| 20:08.01 | jima | yes. |
| 20:08.06 | jima | brb, kidneys |
| 20:08.16 | Q_Continuum | NOOOO NOT MAH KIDNEYS |
| 20:08.55 | jima | for everyone else's benefit: this running joke started when i began punching Q in the kidneys whenever his work disappointed me. |
| 20:09.12 | jima | man. that makes me sound like a really terrible person. |
| 20:09.19 | jima | PERFECT! |
| 20:09.42 | Q_Continuum | You do strive to meet the BOFH creed everyday |
| 20:10.07 | Q_Continuum | And since you can't "double" people's storage from 4MB to 8MB, you have to make up for it in other ways. |
| 20:11.24 | Q_Continuum | needs to sit down and re-read all the BOFH stories |
| 20:11.32 | Q_Continuum | I don't know that I've read them all |
| 20:12.36 | Jayce^ | speaking of which, somebody should submit a proposal to teach something like that at OpenWest.. |
| 20:12.48 | Jayce^ | so many people who could really benefit from that |
| 20:13.10 | Jayce^ | on of our sysadmins did a class like that here for the tech support folks once, helped a lot |
| 20:13.29 | Jayce^ | goozbach: you should ping pfelt about doing that... |
| 20:14.52 | Q_Continuum | That should just be one up on Youtube... |
| 20:15.11 | Jayce^ | yeah, present at OpenWest and fozzmoo will make sure it goes up there |
| 20:16.02 | jima | fwiw: https://twitter.com/neojima/status/559806896392003585 |
| 20:19.00 | goozbach | something like what? |
| 20:19.09 | goozbach | punching kidneys? |
| 20:19.23 | jima | i volunteer for the punching! |
| 20:19.32 | jima | i volunteer Q_Continuum for the kidneys! |
| 20:23.33 | Q_Continuum | NEGATIVE! |
| 20:23.54 | Q_Continuum | I volunteer the network guy who doesn't know his RFC1918 space for the kidneys! |
| 20:24.51 | bregalad | what about RFC1919? Nobody remembers that one |
| 20:25.52 | jima | classical vs. transparently ip proxies? snoozefest. |
| 20:25.57 | Q_Continuum | 1919 is a very delicious root beer! |
| 20:25.59 | jima | -ly |
| 20:28.55 | bregalad | jima: you should host an OpenWest quiz gameshow session on the contents of RFCs |
| 20:29.04 | bregalad | actually something like that could be really fun |
| 20:29.19 | jima | not really...i'm just good at looking stuff up |
| 20:29.51 | jima | like this one time i was at idaho national laboratory, receiving some critical infrastructure security training (which is funny, since it was a year before i moved to slc) |
| 20:30.13 | jima | this one instructor joked, "it's not like there's an 'evil bit' for the malicious traffic" |
| 20:30.26 | jima | i google-fu'd really fast and quipped "oh, like in rfc3514?" |
| 20:31.07 | Q_Continuum | I don't know the number off-hand but I've known about the evil bit, since it was introduced back in 2003. |
| 20:31.37 | jima | i didn't remember it off the top of my head in 2010 (when that happened), but i've reliably remembered the number in the retelling of that story |
| 20:31.50 | bregalad | which one is it, 0 or 1? |
| 20:32.06 | bregalad | jokes |
| 20:32.10 | jima | the more important part is what the packet offset is |
| 20:32.16 | jima | duh |
| 20:32.29 | jima | iirc 0 is 'good' traffic, 1 is 'evil' traffic |
| 20:32.37 | jima | i don't recall the offset though |
| 20:33.35 | Q_Continuum | It was such a good topic it got posted to /. 3 times in 24 hours. Two of them by CmdrTaco himself! |
| 20:33.42 | Q_Continuum | had forgotten that |
| 20:33.51 | bregalad | haha |
| 20:34.02 | jima | slashdot? is that thing still around??? |
| 20:34.06 | Q_Continuum | Yes. |
| 20:34.12 | Q_Continuum | I went digging for the original announcement ;P |
| 20:34.14 | jima | why? |
| 20:34.20 | Q_Continuum | Because Dice. |
| 20:34.41 | Q_Continuum | "Slashdot is a Dice Holdings, Inc. service." |
| 20:35.12 | jima | i'm not sure if that's slashdot's or dice's desperate attempt to stay relevant. |
| 20:35.14 | bregalad | slashdot is a dice-vertisement? |
| 20:35.32 | Q_Continuum | Well then there was the /. "BETA" for which there are now a few spinoff sites |
| 20:35.47 | Q_Continuum | Because they were going to force a new terribad interface on everyone and not listen. |
| 20:35.58 | Q_Continuum | They blinked after the spinoffs took off though |
| 20:36.41 | Q_Continuum | https://soylentnews.org/ being the one I've somewhat paid attention to |
| 20:37.13 | Q_Continuum | and holy carp IBM is expected to cut 26% of workforce, or 111,000 |
| 20:37.33 | bregalad | there's always http://www.technocrat.net/ |
| 20:38.07 | bregalad | Bruce Peren's 'off my lawn' clone |
| 20:38.46 | jima | istr bruce peren was one of the people my boss at my last job fangirled over |
| 20:38.56 | Q_Continuum | With its last post on Pi Day 2014... |
| 20:39.53 | bregalad | why is pi day even a thing? |
| 20:40.04 | bregalad | 'ooh, some numbers look like other numbers' |
| 20:40.27 | RuShan | A reason to eat pi(e) |
| 20:40.41 | asoc | That is why I celebrate tao day. |
| 20:40.48 | joshh | that's a lot of laid off people, wow |
| 20:40.58 | asoc | I can eat 2 times the pi(e) |
| 20:41.42 | Q_Continuum | Its a reason to celebrate a number and eat pie |
| 20:41.52 | jlp_znc | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iUh_CSjaSw |
| 20:41.59 | jlp_znc | the truth about Pi |
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| 20:47.30 | tristanrhodes_ | jlp_znc, cool video |
| 20:48.33 | jlp_znc | Vi Hart is pretty cool |
| 20:48.48 | jlp_znc | "all those zeros!" "what are the chances?" |
| 20:56.20 | bregalad | if you adjoin pi to the integers, all numbers in that set are integral, including pi itself |
| 20:56.55 | youtah | #!/usr/bin/hulksmash |
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| 21:27.19 | youtah | YESHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH |
| 21:27.27 | youtah | Just got my appraisal back on my house |
| 21:27.29 | youtah | :) |
| 21:27.35 | youtah | is happy |
| 21:35.50 | programmerq | I wonder what my house would appraise for. |
| 21:38.53 | eightyeight | zillow.com |
| 21:39.57 | youtah | Zillow.com was $25k off on my estimate |
| 21:40.41 | eightyeight | they do call it a "zestimate", and real estate angents are more interested in moving the house then maximizing profit |
| 21:40.56 | youtah | yeah but this wasn't even a zballpark |
| 21:41.13 | eightyeight | if you start getting offers, and sit on it for 30 more days, you can average getting ~$10k more out of the offers |
| 21:41.28 | youtah | I'm not selling |
| 21:41.31 | youtah | just refi |
| 21:43.50 | RuShan | Estimates are always around what you want anyways |
| 21:48.28 | Q_Continuum | I was going to say, didn't you just move in in the last year? ;P |
| 21:54.13 | programmerq | once I crush some CC debt over the next few months, I'm going to look into doing a refi to get cash out to finish the basement. |
| 21:58.47 | youtah | Q_Continuum, yeah... but this refi is getting us super close to eliminating PMI 100% all together, and is saving us like $300 a month, and is a little more than a full point lower. |
| 21:59.01 | Q_Continuum | Nice! |
| 21:59.16 | youtah | yeah, so I am super stocked |
| 21:59.17 | youtah | stoked |
| 21:59.20 | Q_Continuum | (More pointing at the "selling?" question |
| 21:59.21 | youtah | stocked too |
| 21:59.35 | Q_Continuum | You will be stocked after that money's in your pocket, that'll buy some stockpiles! |
| 22:00.24 | youtah | "two chicks at the same time" - Lawrence |
| 22:01.00 | youtah | brb |
| 22:05.07 | Q_Continuum | I need to re-watch that, after I find my copy and figure out an optical media player for the living room. |
| 22:06.21 | joshh | "hey peter man, check out channel 9" |
| 22:06.27 | joshh | such a great movie |
| 22:07.03 | pashdown | what is this "optical media player" you speak of? |
| 22:12.02 | Q_Continuum | The thing I didn't install in my latest desktop build |
| 22:12.13 | Q_Continuum | so I need a way to watch/rip them without putting an older PC in the living room |
| 22:16.09 | *** join/#utah youtah (~youtah@216.50.142.194) |
| 22:16.24 | youtah | So |
| 22:16.36 | youtah | what's your favorite vertical google chrome tabs extension? |
| 22:20.16 | youtah | Bueller? |
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| 22:25.09 | Q_Continuum | I have one I use, but its only on the home stack not the work one |
| 22:25.11 | Q_Continuum | Sidewise? |
| 22:25.12 | Q_Continuum | Its ok |
| 22:25.18 | Q_Continuum | I prefer Firefox still |
| 22:25.53 | Jayce^ | doesn't have one in chrome |
| 22:33.19 | bregalad | I use firefox, I guess that means I'm not cool |
| 22:33.30 | bregalad | not cool with google's development paradigms |
| 22:33.35 | Q_Continuum | I want to see Chrome handle 550 tabs and not make my machine die |
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| 22:55.34 | youtah | I crash firefox into bridge i no care i lov it |
| 22:55.45 | youtah | https://twitter.com/pakulupapito1/status/359387112417665025 |
| 22:56.18 | youtah | Classic Pakulu |
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| 23:44.03 | youtah | http://geekdad.com/2015/01/danish-archer/ |
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| 23:58.48 | bregalad | ~brain |
| 23:58.49 | infobot | I'm a lab mouse in a large mechanical suit. |
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