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| 11:02.13 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds | OpenWest Conference sometime 2014! openwest.org | https://fiber.google.com/cities/provo/ |
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| 15:38.01 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds | OpenWest Conference sometime 2014! openwest.org | https://fiber.google.com/cities/provo/ |
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| 15:54.59 | fadein | OpenWest conference sometime in 2014? |
| 15:55.07 | fadein | they'd better get on it; there's not much 2014 left! |
| 15:55.59 | fadein | Jayce: On a related note, are you the man I should reach out to about presenting a OW2015? |
| 15:56.33 | jima | pfft, 2014 is so last year |
| 16:16.41 | Jayce | fadein: I'm one of them.. we'll be getting the CFP out before too long |
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| 16:17.08 | fadein | Jayce: sounds good. I'll keep my eyes peeled |
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| 16:36.20 | T4rku5 | on a related note, the CFP for BSidesSLC 2015 is open right now |
| 16:36.30 | T4rku5 | http://bsidesslc.org/CFP2015/ |
| 16:39.42 | T4rku5 | feel free to ask me any questions you might have |
| 16:39.58 | T4rku5 | and chances are, we'd love to hear from you |
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| 16:49.13 | eightyeight | for those that missed it: https://www.facebook.com/notes/protect-the-graph/making-connections-to-facebook-more-secure/1526085754298237 |
| 16:49.18 | eightyeight | https://facebookcorewwwi.onion/ |
| 16:53.51 | jxqz | fadein: I set the topic last year and then it got loxored and everyone who can change it just doesn't care enough |
| 16:55.23 | fadein | eightyeight: did some aliens abduct Zuck and replace him with a cyborg replicant? |
| 17:01.01 | eightyeight | dunno |
| 17:01.18 | eightyeight | but, being the skeptic i am, all this tells me is that facebook gets exclusive access to your datas |
| 17:01.28 | eightyeight | isps can't grab it if you go to the .onion site |
| 17:01.40 | eightyeight | which means, the friendface walls grow taller in that garden |
| 17:02.12 | jxqz | mr cynical |
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| 17:03.18 | eightyeight | doesn't change that they'll still share all your datas to the nsa |
| 17:03.38 | eightyeight | just not to comcrap/century stink/etc |
| 17:09.29 | *** join/#utah youtah (~youtah@204.15.85.223) |
| 17:09.41 | youtah | Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy |
| 17:10.09 | fadein | well, I for one am just glad that Facebook is doing this for all the right reasons; not because it's the right thing to do, or because their chattels (I mean, "users") demand it - but because it makes sense from a business standpoint |
| 17:10.59 | youtah | what is Facebook doing? |
| 17:11.04 | youtah | and is she hot? |
| 17:11.25 | fadein | I was about to answer you... |
| 17:11.39 | youtah | This is how I feel right now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eYSpIz2FjU (cc: jnbek) |
| 17:28.11 | jnbek | youtah: no |
| 17:28.13 | jnbek | just no |
| 17:28.19 | jnbek | not doing that again |
| 17:28.21 | jnbek | :-P |
| 17:28.28 | jnbek | I feel semi human today |
| 17:28.34 | jnbek | I think I'll remain that way |
| 17:31.33 | youtah | Oh man |
| 17:31.39 | youtah | I was feeling great yesterday |
| 17:31.49 | youtah | but apparently I slid back down the hill again |
| 17:33.23 | programmerq | youtah: too much halloween candy? |
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| 17:37.33 | opapo | hello all |
| 17:38.08 | opapo | I am getting an error mounting a cifs share. It can't open the credentials file |
| 17:38.34 | opapo | I am accessing it as root and the permissions are 755 |
| 17:39.04 | opapo | I looked online and nothing I try seems to work. |
| 17:45.06 | fungus | opapo, typo in filename, Apparmor, SELinux? |
| 17:45.43 | opapo | I'll look into that thanks. I copied the filename and pasted it in the command so that's not it. |
| 17:45.53 | opapo | It may be an SELinux issue |
| 17:46.12 | opapo | CentOS 6.6 |
| 17:48.26 | opapo | I did "setenforce permissive" and it still doesn't let me |
| 17:49.51 | opapo | I use the complete path to the credentials file and it works |
| 17:50.08 | opapo | I thought it would be relative to the folder I was executing the command |
| 17:50.10 | opapo | I guess not |
| 17:52.40 | jsmith | Friends don't let friends disable SELinux... |
| 17:52.54 | jsmith | ... you wouldn't drive your car without seatbelts, right? |
| 17:52.58 | jsmith | ducks and hides |
| 17:53.14 | T4rku5 | hehe...yeah, don't disable it. Also, friends don't let friends *use* SELinux in the first place |
| 17:53.30 | opapo | lol |
| 17:53.48 | opapo | thanks for reminding me to reenable it |
| 17:54.25 | opapo | If SELinux was the issue I can modify rules to allow it to be enabled and get my functionality |
| 17:54.54 | jsmith | Of course... |
| 17:55.01 | jsmith | There are lots of knobs you can tweak :-) |
| 17:56.22 | jima | youtah: good grief, you like to stir the pot of impassioned opinions, don't you? |
| 17:56.32 | youtah | ROFL |
| 17:56.40 | youtah | you just see my FB post from this morning jima? |
| 17:56.45 | jima | youtah's klout score must be INSANE |
| 17:57.00 | jima | yeah, i saw it earlier but i got tangled up in a support issue. |
| 17:57.28 | youtah | I am trying to work from home |
| 17:57.44 | youtah | and the wife just asked if I could watch the kids while she runs out for an errand. |
| 17:57.53 | youtah | I might have been a little too harsh on my "No!" answer |
| 17:57.58 | jima | happens to me all the time |
| 17:58.12 | jima | fortunately my kids are reasonably autonomous, usually |
| 17:58.17 | RyanE | if by "watch" you mean "ignore", sure. |
| 18:00.17 | jima | well, in my case it's more like "ensure escape if the house catches fire" |
| 18:00.43 | jima | "keep from getting abducted" |
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| 18:04.41 | sjansen | Public service announcement: It is "Red Hat" not "RedHat" and definitely not "Redhat". |
| 18:05.12 | jima | Redhate |
| 18:07.07 | joshh_ | i thought it was debian |
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| 18:10.55 | fadein | Isn't Red Hat a CentOS derivative? |
| 18:11.36 | eightyeight | haha |
| 18:11.43 | eightyeight | sjansen: wb |
| 18:12.10 | eightyeight | installs OpenSuSE |
| 18:12.17 | eightyeight | or |
| 18:12.19 | eightyeight | installs OpenSuSE GNU/Linux |
| 18:13.27 | sjansen | Public service announcement: It is "openSUSE" not "OpenSUSE" or "OpenSuSE". |
| 18:14.34 | sjansen | eightyeight: ;-) |
| 18:14.46 | sjansen | ~lart emcnabb for old time's sake |
| 18:14.46 | infobot | installs PocketPC on emcnabb's PDA for old time's sake |
| 18:15.21 | sjansen | Now that's apropos. |
| 18:15.25 | sjansen | ~botsnack |
| 18:15.25 | infobot | sjansen: thanks |
| 18:15.27 | youtah | ROFL, I love these Readhate comments |
| 18:15.46 | joshh_ | suse still exists? |
| 18:15.52 | youtah | #Zing |
| 18:17.10 | jima | youtah: jsmith can tell you how much i've always hated red hat. |
| 18:18.31 | eightyeight | joshh_: the other day, i learned people still use gentoo, and read /. |
| 18:18.53 | youtah | hey jima 56 comments |
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| 18:31.28 | jima | youtah: you should start a discussion on there about linux distributions, or text editors. |
| 18:35.30 | youtah | no one would comment except you guys |
| 18:37.15 | jima | yes, but we would argue enough to make up for the reduced headcount. |
| 18:37.33 | emcnabb | sjansen, thanks, a lot |
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| 19:15.57 | jxqz | ReDhAt |
| 19:16.55 | jxqz | ~rot1234567890 ReDhAt |
| 19:16.55 | infobot | BoNrKd |
| 19:17.06 | jxqz | BoNrKd!! |
| 19:25.56 | jxqz | ~apropos sjansen |
| 19:25.56 | infobot | sjansen: nothing appropriate |
| 19:53.28 | Sargun | levi: Where did you work where you did the low-latency audio stuff |
| 19:53.40 | Sargun | eightyeight: One of my best friends is a Gentoo dev. |
| 19:54.37 | jxqz | Sargun: is that nick125? |
| 19:55.01 | jxqz | I use gentoo as my primary distro |
| 19:55.11 | jxqz | don't see what the big deal is |
| 19:55.25 | jxqz | not much more overhead than arch on modern hardware |
| 19:55.46 | joshh_ | ricer |
| 19:56.19 | Sargun | Coolness factor. |
| 19:56.56 | jxqz | what amazes me is that supposed 'desktop distros' don't provide preemtible kernels by default |
| 19:57.45 | jxqz | it takes me about 20 minutes to compile firefox |
| 19:58.01 | jxqz | about 3 hours to recompile the entire system |
| 19:58.17 | jima | and how long to reproduce any problems encountered on another system? |
| 19:58.26 | joshh_ | that's about as much free time as i have in a whole day |
| 19:58.46 | jxqz | jima: why do I care about problems on another system? |
| 19:59.05 | jxqz | joshh_: you need to rethink your life |
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| 19:59.14 | jima | i suppose that was slightly ambiguous. |
| 19:59.18 | Sargun | jxqz: Evacuate your children. You'll suddenly find more time |
| 20:00.04 | jima | jxqz: when you run into bugs, how long does it take to reproduce those bugs on another system? |
| 20:01.04 | jxqz | jima: I don't run into legitimate bugs very often |
| 20:01.24 | jxqz | but I suppose it would take a few minutes |
| 20:01.37 | eightyeight | i'm fairly certain that preemptive kernels are the default, since like, 2007 |
| 20:01.45 | jima | so just illegitimate bugs...got it. |
| 20:02.07 | jxqz | eightyeight: the last time I checked ubuntu's kernel was not fully preemptible |
| 20:02.12 | jima | jxqz: so, the software on the other system would be exactly identical to the software on your system? |
| 20:02.47 | jxqz | jima: it is likely very close as I keep my configs on different gentoo systems very similar |
| 20:03.04 | eightyeight | jxqz: then ubuntu is deliberately compiling that out. preemptive kernels have been the default since 2.6.something |
| 20:03.13 | jxqz | jima: what is an illegitimate bug? |
| 20:03.18 | jima | are you going to copy the custom-compiled binaries from your system over? or assume that they're close enough. |
| 20:03.27 | jima | jxqz: i don't know, what is a legitimate bug? |
| 20:03.52 | jima | an illegitimate bug is the opposite of a legitimate bug. whatever that is. |
| 20:03.54 | jnbek | is an illegitimate bug one who's parents weren't married? |
| 20:03.58 | jxqz | jima: I don't do distro bug testing, so I'm not setup on any of my systems to do that kind of thing |
| 20:04.19 | jima | jxqz: congratulations, you just presented a great case for people to avoid gentoo. ;-) |
| 20:04.20 | jxqz | jima: do you work on distro bugs? |
| 20:04.28 | jima | i used to. not so much anymore. |
| 20:04.37 | eightyeight | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel#PREEMPTION |
| 20:04.40 | *** part/#utah fugue88 (~dsowen@fugue88.ws) |
| 20:04.46 | eightyeight | "Additional scheduling policy known as SCHED_DEADLINE, implementing the earliest deadline first algorithm (EDF), was added to the Linux scheduler in version 3.14 of the Linux kernel mainline, released on 30 March 2014." |
| 20:04.59 | jima | i went to the dark side and don't have so much free time for open source projects anymore, sadly. |
| 20:05.08 | jxqz | eightyeight: my memory is that linux defaults to 'voluntary preemption', not full preemption |
| 20:06.00 | eightyeight | looks like there is only partial support for full preemption anyway, through a patch ,not in the mainline |
| 20:06.09 | jxqz | whenever I compile a new kernel, I have to select full preemption anyway |
| 20:06.56 | jima | jxqz: is that CONFIG_PREEMPT? |
| 20:07.12 | jima | (vs CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY i guess?) |
| 20:07.31 | jxqz | jima: I believe so |
| 20:07.46 | jima | i forget how automagic the /boot/config* thing is |
| 20:07.51 | jima | or universal |
| 20:08.10 | jxqz | if you do `make install` the config will go into /boot |
| 20:08.59 | jima | ok, couldn't remember, been long enough since i bothered rolling my own |
| 20:09.01 | eightyeight | "CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY=y" is set on my debian kernel |
| 20:09.14 | jxqz | jima: regarding your questions about bugs, gentoo is surprisingly stable in that way |
| 20:09.15 | eightyeight | with a note: |
| 20:09.17 | eightyeight | # CONFIG_PREEMPT is not set |
| 20:09.17 | jima | even longer since i bothered rolling my own outside of a packaging environment |
| 20:09.27 | jima | eightyeight: ditto for fedora |
| 20:09.28 | jxqz | they seem to have a pretty good QA team/process |
| 20:09.33 | jxqz | quite amazing, actually |
| 20:09.48 | eightyeight | i'm curious what this will give me. what's noticable about CONFIG_PREEMPT compared to CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY ? |
| 20:10.03 | jxqz | I've noticed a definite improvement on my netbook |
| 20:10.08 | eightyeight | how will my computing improve by enabling it? |
| 20:10.16 | sjansen | warm fuzzies |
| 20:10.31 | eightyeight | tribbles? |
| 20:10.42 | jima | enh...forgive my cynicism, but i have my doubts that gentoo has remarkably fewer bugs than distros with greater mindshare. |
| 20:10.45 | jxqz | like, if thunderbird is running and churning something, it doesn't affect user interaction in other places |
| 20:11.04 | jxqz | jima: that is not what I was implying |
| 20:11.18 | jxqz | gentoo works reasonably well considering the circumstances |
| 20:11.42 | eightyeight | i have an hp netbook, and i'm deeply familiar with its resource constraints. i'll roll my own kernel, and give it a try, and see how things improve |
| 20:11.46 | jima | that's one of the least confidence-inspiring things i've ever read about gentoo. :-) |
| 20:12.08 | jima | maybe most honest, however. |
| 20:12.11 | jxqz | jima: you're certainly free to deplete your confidence at will |
| 20:13.00 | jxqz | in a certain sense, every gentoo user becomes a QA dev |
| 20:13.05 | jima | oops, i depleted my confidence...all over my keyboard. |
| 20:13.46 | jxqz | jima: you seem to harbor some acrimony about gentoo |
| 20:14.34 | jima | i harbor acrimony for environments that don't jive well with reproduceability, yes. |
| 20:16.50 | jima | as i recall, gentoo has moved away from stage-whatever installs, which makes me happier in one sense but more confused in another. |
| 20:18.40 | jxqz | jima: why would you be happy about something gentoo does when you seem to be so derisive of it? |
| 20:19.15 | jxqz | in my experience people that don't like gentoo often try to characterize gentoo users as fools |
| 20:19.29 | jxqz | which has always confused me |
| 20:21.19 | jima | misguided, maybe, at least some of them. fools? i don't think i'd say that. |
| 20:22.53 | jima | i would agree that gentoo made a lot more sense when computing resources weren't so plentiful. |
| 20:22.57 | sjansen | depends on how prejorative you consider the term ricer |
| 20:23.11 | sjansen | To me, there's a difference between ricer and fool. |
| 20:23.33 | jima | sjansen: i somewhat align gentoo users to ricers, but it's not exactly the same thing. |
| 20:23.40 | sjansen | Gentoo users aren't fools, just people with an odd set of priorities. |
| 20:23.46 | jima | sjansen: agreed. |
| 20:23.56 | jima | sjansen: and that's what i mean by misguided. |
| 20:24.02 | jxqz | sjansen: you can say the same thing about using linux at all |
| 20:24.41 | jxqz | 'people who run linux on their laptop are misguided because linux has problems handling all hardware scenarios' |
| 20:24.50 | jima | there are documentable advantages to using linux in general. the advantages to using gentoo have always felt...marginal, at best, to me. |
| 20:25.33 | jima | and, from my side of the fence, there have been some drawbacks involved. |
| 20:25.59 | jxqz | I do my own automotive, carpentry, plumbing, and electrical work, so gentoo seems like the natural choice to me |
| 20:26.48 | jima | that makes sense. |
| 20:27.05 | jxqz | in that way I am a fool, I guess |
| 20:27.17 | jxqz | always trying to do things myself |
| 20:27.42 | jima | it feels mean-spirited to recommend gentoo to new linux users...experienced ones looking for a project, sure. |
| 20:27.46 | fungus | gentoo makes sense on a small scale like that. But on larger scales where reproducibility are more critical, gentoo is problematic. |
| 20:28.03 | jima | fungus: that's what i was saying, yep. |
| 20:28.09 | Sargun | What was the infamous hosting company that used Gentoo |
| 20:28.38 | jima | fungus: i've heard of the notion of doing one binary build and rolling it out on a large, identical cluster...that use case makes sense to me. |
| 20:28.57 | fungus | gentoo can be very reproducible with a lot of extra add-on work to centralize your building and portage repositories. |
| 20:29.05 | Sargun | Does anyone know of any audio servers that implement Jack? |
| 20:29.08 | jima | but if your environment isn't composed of large numbers of identical systems (or roles)...i don't know. |
| 20:29.26 | Sargun | jima: I know of several companies that used to do that |
| 20:29.39 | jima | fungus: yeah. other distros have that as an automatic feature, though. |
| 20:30.17 | jima | and oftentimes those entities that have large, identical clusters can really benefit from even marginal performance gains. |
| 20:31.02 | jima | that's pretty much the only non-one-off scenario i've ever heard where gentoo has a notable advantage over pre-built distros. |
| 20:31.30 | jima | for me, the reproduceability makes it a non-starter. |
| 20:31.58 | jxqz | that can definitely be a pain |
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| 20:33.01 | fungus | But Gentoo (and Arch) are a heckuva lotta fun as a hobby, or for experimentation. |
| 20:33.27 | jima | fungus: i won't argue with that. |
| 20:33.39 | jxqz | it's kind of like buying furniture from IKEA |
| 20:33.53 | jima | ... |
| 20:34.10 | jxqz | but I feel it's also like using vim instead of an ide |
| 20:34.28 | jima | i don't see the IKEA analogy playing through |
| 20:34.41 | jxqz | with an ide you don't have to do any work for extra magical things to work, whereas with vim you have to custom setup your own scripts and plugins |
| 20:35.10 | fungus | I think tweaking and rebuilding your own car is a more apt analogy. |
| 20:35.17 | jima | i buy furniture from ikea because it's reasonably inexpensive, usually at least somewhat well-made (sometimes you have to skip the cheapest tier), and doesn't take an extraordinary amount of time to assemble. |
| 20:35.23 | jima | fungus: agreed. |
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| 20:36.13 | jima | heck, my lackey's had more trouble with the kitchen table he ordered from rc willey than i've had with all of the ikea furniture i've ever bought. |
| 20:36.48 | jima | (which, for better or worse, is a LOT of furniture.) |
| 20:37.06 | jxqz | sometimes using a prebuilt distro feels that way to me |
| 20:37.27 | jima | feels what way? like more trouble? |
| 20:38.35 | jxqz | yes |
| 20:39.07 | jima | unless you're patching your own bugs, you're still somewhat at the mercy of outside parties. |
| 20:39.24 | jxqz | yes and gentoo makes it trivial to patch your own bugs |
| 20:40.59 | jima | unless gentoo applies no vendor-level patches whatsoever, i doubt it's a vastly different user experience than other distros. |
| 20:41.28 | jima | i feel truly blessed at not having to hack multiple patches together anymore. ;-) |
| 20:43.36 | jxqz | I don't do it very often, but it is nice to have your own patch to a distro package when you need it before it's fixed |
| 20:44.04 | jxqz | that way the package manager is still in control |
| 20:44.07 | jima | yeah, i've done that many times with rpm-based distros, and once with a deb-based one |
| 20:45.44 | jxqz | in the near future, I think all such patching and worrying about lib versions and menial nonsense like this will become superfluous as packages are becoming more monolithic in order to reduce cloud deploy friction |
| 20:45.49 | jima | i haven't built software outside of package management...in well over a decade. |
| 20:47.13 | jima | enh...i would more expect the cloud frameworks to just use different packaging formats/standards. |
| 20:47.52 | jima | or better, the same formats/standards, but i don't see that happening. |
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| 21:04.19 | eightyeight | so, it's established that people still use gentoo |
| 21:05.50 | eightyeight | btw, i've never characterized gentoo users as 'fools'. just have a lot of time on their hands. :) |
| 21:06.57 | eightyeight | bsd users on the other hand... |
| 21:06.59 | eightyeight | ducks |
| 21:08.00 | jima | haha |
| 21:08.10 | jima | i have respect for freebsd |
| 21:08.16 | jima | other bsds...not sure. |
| 21:09.48 | eightyeight | i feel that way for netbsd |
| 21:10.12 | eightyeight | i'm impartial about freebsd though, although cool it has kernel-level zfs natively, with trim support for ssds |
| 21:10.22 | eightyeight | openbsd, on the other hand, i'm not a fan |
| 21:15.42 | jxqz | eightyeight: but it's secure! |
| 21:15.50 | jxqz | :) |
| 21:16.15 | eightyeight | you mean 'un'secure |
| 21:16.19 | eightyeight | i'll go with that, if so |
| 21:16.38 | eightyeight | although, they finally addressed cryptographically signed packages with signify(1) |
| 21:16.50 | eightyeight | well done openbsd. 1994 called. they want their crypto back |
| 21:33.31 | Migs | http://i.imgur.com/KUt8fqS.png |
| 21:34.42 | jima | Migs: that's cold. |
| 21:36.12 | eightyeight | boo |
| 21:36.46 | jima | internet hate nourishes me. |
| 21:39.13 | joshh_ | i installed gentoo once or twice back in like 2002, and did learn some things from it, but it never seemed practical to use full time. especially since back then it took almost a full day to compile the desktop environment stuff |
| 21:39.32 | joshh_ | of course these days are different |
| 21:39.53 | jima | paradoxially, that was when there was the most to gain from gentoo. |
| 21:40.23 | eightyeight | i tried it, back in 2006/7 |
| 21:40.32 | eightyeight | after 3 hours, and i still didn't have a working system, i gave up |
| 21:41.06 | joshh | that was also when i had abundant free time and was constantly playing with linux in general, tryng different distros and learning like crazy |
| 21:41.11 | eightyeight | mostly due to gnome failing on compilation, then firefox |
| 21:41.56 | joshh | these days i get home from work, have dinner, have family time, then maybe try to do something hobby related, and end up falling asleep in the middle of it |
| 21:42.01 | eightyeight | when openoffice was next, i realized that i could let this run overnight, and risk a broken install, or just install debian, and be done with it |
| 21:42.12 | eightyeight | joshh: haha. that's me _exactly_ |
| 21:42.28 | joshh | heh |
| 21:42.48 | eightyeight | by the time the daughter is in bed, it's almost time for me to go horizontal |
| 21:42.55 | eightyeight | i maybe get 30 minutes in, and i'm asleep in my chair |
| 21:43.38 | joshh | like last night, i put on a tv show and started playing around with some zookeeper thing, and the next thing i remember, i wake up and it's 3am and my laptop is open but asleep, and tv auto turned off |
| 21:43.47 | eightyeight | with that said, i have had fun with https://user.xmission.com/~atoponce/art/ and http://aarontoponce.org/wiki/card-ciphers/ |
| 21:43.58 | eightyeight | heh |
| 21:45.13 | joshh | i now understand why it's hard for older nerds to compete with the guys fresh out of college and stay up to date with learning |
| 21:45.22 | joshh | and im only 34 |
| 21:48.08 | joshh | so at this point i have zero time to mess with gentoo and have to focus more on relevant higher level tech that i need to know during the day |
| 22:00.49 | joshh | card ciphers is cool |
| 22:01.21 | eightyeight | it's fun. i don't expect anything practical out of it, other than to learn the processes of cryptanalysis. |
| 22:01.44 | joshh | which is a cool thing to learn |
| 22:06.51 | eightyeight | i'm working on finishing the last two ciphertexts in block one of http://aarontoponce.org/wiki/card-ciphers/card-chameleon/ciphertexts |
| 22:06.58 | eightyeight | then i'll move on to the chaocipher |
| 22:07.01 | eightyeight | shrug |
| 22:07.30 | jxqz | I started using gentoo in 2003 |
| 22:07.53 | jxqz | I remember package builds failing all the time and spewing all kinds of warnings |
| 22:08.30 | jxqz | now packages almost never fail to compile and generate very few warnings |
| 22:08.51 | jxqz | I attribute that to the maturation of open source projects in general |
| 22:11.06 | joshh | now i did compile everything when i was a freebsd user for a while, but that was different |
| 22:11.23 | joshh | and even then i would start building the X stuff in the morning and have it ready after work |
| 22:11.37 | joshh | i wonder how long that takes on a modern box now |
| 22:16.26 | jxqz | how is that different? |
| 22:17.12 | joshh | because at the time the ports were usually more up to date than the binary packages, and it was more about a couple options here or there than full optimization of everything |
| 22:17.34 | jxqz | if I wanted, my system can recompile itself in ~<3h |
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| 22:18.01 | joshh | i've heard binary freebsd is more viable these days but meh |
| 22:18.18 | jxqz | that is the attitude of many gentoo users to USE flags; only change them if you need to |
| 22:18.24 | joshh | linux is just better for a desktop and pretty much everything else but a zfs box |
| 22:19.16 | joshh | like if you rebuild your kernel in freebsd, it's just to try a new scheduler or enable a network thing |
| 22:19.39 | joshh | but even for that my memory is hazy |
| 22:20.09 | joshh | fungus might still be a user and better able to compare it to gentoo |
| 22:20.13 | jxqz | is secretly trying to get joshh back to using a source distro |
| 22:20.38 | joshh | heh i don't even own a pc right now, just mbp |
| 22:20.56 | joshh | but with some debian vm's and a vps |
| 22:21.53 | fungus | I haven't used freebsd in a few years beyond an occasional experiment or test. |
| 22:22.37 | fungus | But yes, gentoo has many similarities to freebsd |
| 22:23.15 | fungus | ports <=> portage, src <=> stage? |
| 22:24.54 | fungus | But both have been changing over the years. freebsd has added a new optional package manager, binary updating for the base system. Gentoo scrapped the stage system, etc. |
| 22:26.11 | jxqz | the stage system still exists but it has only retained its bootstrapping uses |
| 22:26.43 | fungus | ah, ok. |
| 22:27.34 | eightyeight | joshh: zfs on linux is exceptionally stable and mature |
| 22:27.43 | jxqz | I wish there were a stage4 that would be somewhat like a livecd with a fully working graphical install so that you could change out packages as needed |
| 22:27.45 | eightyeight | yeah, there are a few bugs to work out, but i'm running it on my workstation right now, actually |
| 22:27.55 | joshh | ya, ive heard its decent now |
| 22:28.03 | eightyeight | i know a lot of linux users using a ZFS root fs also |
| 22:28.08 | eightyeight | is just using it for /home |
| 22:28.13 | eightyeight | xfs elsewhere |
| 22:28.57 | eightyeight | i'm betting that ZoL becomes "1.0" before btrfs, actually |
| 22:29.41 | joshh | i wouldn't doubt that |
| 22:29.57 | eightyeight | Btrfs was announced in 2007. 7 years later, it's still "experimental" |
| 22:30.12 | eightyeight | not that designing filesystems is a trivial task |
| 22:31.13 | eightyeight | by comparison, ZFS started development in 2001, and was stable 4 years later in 2005 |
| 22:31.48 | eightyeight | has since undergone 30-something releases since then |
| 22:31.54 | eightyeight | some with major upgrades |
| 22:32.23 | eightyeight | while i'm rooting for some bcache+btfrfs+ceph goodness, my eggs are in the zfs+glusterfs basket |
| 22:33.39 | fungus | eightyeight, are you going to write a series of articles for btrfs like you did for zfs. I would really enjoy that a lot. :) |
| 22:34.11 | eightyeight | i will. but i'm going to wait for it to go stable first. or at least "feature complete". there are still big pieces missing. |
| 22:34.15 | fungus | btrfs seems to initially confuse me everytime I try it out. |
| 22:34.17 | eightyeight | but yes, that is the plan |
| 22:34.29 | eightyeight | although it might be another 7 years. :) |
| 22:34.41 | fungus | hehe, of course. |
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| 23:02.57 | jxqz | you'll be running gnu hurd by then |
| 23:06.04 | youtah | flings poo at the wall |
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| 23:34.09 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (~macnewbol@inferno.apxalarm.com) |
| 23:37.54 | Jayce | ^^ that's his version of coding |
| 23:38.47 | eightyeight | at least he's a decent photographer |
| 23:39.04 | harleypig | thinks youtah should do his own version of tubgirl |
| 23:39.20 | eightyeight | harleypig: please don't offer to model |
| 23:40.06 | harleypig | I can't bend far enough. |
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| 23:41.10 | eightyeight | you scared both sjansen and youtah |
| 23:41.23 | harleypig | heh |
