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| 16:25.54 | programmerq | stupid XO. my packets go through my isp, and then drop when they try to traverse through XO |
| 16:26.49 | programmerq | I need to get some sort of super uber traceroute for times like this |
| 16:27.08 | programmerq | mtr is kind of nice, but doesn't display data over time very effectively, imho |
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| 16:41.47 | programmerq | http://www.emcity.org/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC={D4C90717-CF47-4B64-8138-31BCB51A723A}&DE={4AA4C6FC-C970-48C5-B752-4B21E9386077} |
| 16:41.54 | programmerq | apparantly this latest update is from the future |
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| 16:55.58 | youtah | Anyone else on Ello yet? |
| 16:56.09 | youtah | https://ello.co/jeffmcgrath/ << my account |
| 16:57.30 | youtah | I only have a couple of invites left. |
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| 17:00.10 | jxqz | it is truly stupefying to contemplate the magnitude of the number of jobs available that do all or most of their stuff in micro$oft util$ |
| 17:00.34 | jxqz | are there just that many people out there that are that stupid? |
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| 17:37.42 | eightyeight | jxqz: only stupid people use microsoft software? |
| 17:38.37 | eightyeight | also, the 'micro$oft' thing is a bit immature-linux-fanboish, imo |
| 17:38.47 | eightyeight | we're better than that |
| 17:40.14 | jxqz | ugh |
| 17:40.15 | fugue88 | miâ¬rosoft |
| 17:40.42 | fugue88 | Better? :P |
| 17:41.00 | jxqz | there's no reason to use asp.NET |
| 17:41.10 | eightyeight | ÊÉo$oɹâ¬Ä±É¯ |
| 17:41.35 | fugue88 | concedes defeat |
| 17:42.19 | jxqz | microsoft's entire line of 'products' are calculated to wow suits who never have nor will ever learn that microsoft's whole business model is to swindle them |
| 17:43.03 | eightyeight | early 2000s, i benchmarked asp.net, jsp, and php server-side web languages, and asp.net came out on top |
| 17:43.27 | eightyeight | that's about all i can say on asp.net though |
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| 17:45.08 | eightyeight | also, with mod_mono, you can run asp.net on a gnu/linux web server with apache |
| 17:45.32 | eightyeight | i'm sure there are some deficiencies though, compared to running on a windows server |
| 18:01.25 | youtah | Heh... http://www.ksl.com/?sid=31771427&nid=1012&title=people-are-now-bending-iphones-in-apple-stores&s_cid=queue-2 |
| 18:01.52 | RyanE | good way to get arrested |
| 18:04.09 | RyanE | be more entertaining if someone took a BlendTec into an apple store, and tested whether it would *blend*. :) |
| 18:04.26 | RyanE | humming the theme music... da da do dee dooo..... |
| 18:09.23 | youtah | lol |
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| 18:28.26 | jlp_znc | well, of course, the answer is "yes", it will blend. |
| 18:29.33 | jlp_znc | and I often type micro$oft. I don't feel it is "linux" fan-boyish as I don't consider myself a linux fan boy. I'm a much bigger fan of *BSD. :-) |
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| 18:31.44 | fugue88 | ¤B$D |
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| 19:14.14 | eightyeight | i've honestly not fully understood the "micro$oft" spelling. is this to imply they like money? is there someone/something that doesn't? |
| 19:14.46 | RyanE | Their motivation is money, *ours* is purity of open source. We never grub money. :) |
| 19:14.57 | eightyeight | you can't sell open source? |
| 19:15.21 | eightyeight | looks at RHT |
| 19:15.42 | RyanE | I was being facetious. |
| 19:15.45 | eightyeight | i know |
| 19:16.00 | RyanE | you never can tell... :) |
| 19:16.06 | eightyeight | i'm beating a dead horse |
| 19:16.10 | jxqz | yeah, eightyeight, only micro$oft is corrupted by money |
| 19:16.18 | eightyeight | only? |
| 19:16.24 | RyanE | eightyeight: it's easier. The Live ones either run away, or kick you. |
| 19:16.34 | eightyeight | :) |
| 19:16.49 | eightyeight | Ora¢le |
| 19:17.20 | harleypig | Isn't that Orifice? |
| 19:17.40 | RyanE | heh |
| 19:17.45 | RyanE | "he said orifice" |
| 19:17.53 | RyanE | Micro$oft Orifice |
| 19:26.22 | harleypig | Back Orifice |
| 19:27.53 | harleypig | Hellmouth |
| 19:28.35 | harleypig | If it's a hell mouth ... how bad is the other end? |
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| 19:36.38 | youtah | WOOT! |
| 19:36.48 | youtah | made harleypig's NSFW list on Facebook! |
| 19:36.48 | jxqz | Slütsof in Stâgram |
| 19:37.45 | harleypig | it's a dubious honor ... you get the stuff most people deem to ... bizarre or weird or just plain mind bending to want to see. |
| 19:37.56 | harleypig | s/to/too/ |
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| 19:59.25 | davido__ | Is there a channel associated with saintcon? |
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| 20:17.46 | eightyeight | if you're a utahsaint member, they have a dedicated irc server, and corresponding channel |
| 20:17.50 | eightyeight | otherwise, this probably works |
| 20:18.03 | eightyeight | some utahsaint members hang out here, including myself |
| 20:36.57 | jalbretsen | slams head on desk |
| 20:37.12 | jalbretsen | yes, let's have a debate on email fonts |
| 20:37.58 | jalbretsen | I don't think my response of "don't use HTML email" will go over well |
| 20:38.36 | eightyeight | while i don't prefer to type up my emails in HTML, i don't mind receiving them |
| 20:56.06 | jalbretsen | I mind answering dumb questions from people that right them. This font isn't matching, blah blah blah. |
| 20:56.10 | davido__ | eightyeight: I was just curious. I'm a speaker, and just wondered if there's somewhere I should be monitoring for announcements, etc. Probably not though. :D |
| 20:56.10 | jalbretsen | er |
| 20:56.13 | jalbretsen | write |
| 20:56.52 | eightyeight | davido__: all the announcements are going to the twitter account |
| 20:57.12 | eightyeight | https://twitter.com/saintcon |
| 20:59.06 | davido__ | thanks |
| 20:59.27 | eightyeight | np |
| 20:59.46 | eightyeight | btw, has anyone looked at the mozilla source code, or worked with their api? |
| 21:00.03 | eightyeight | i'm trying to figure out how the password database is encrypted with a master password in firefox |
| 21:00.23 | eightyeight | i think it's 3DES, but that comes from some random dude on the internet, an eternity ago |
| 21:04.14 | davido__ | lol. |
| 21:04.31 | davido__ | security through "having been overlooked as a vector for many years" |
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| 21:28.59 | jxqz | heh |
| 21:29.35 | jxqz | 'has anyone looked through the source code to $disgustingly_large_project?' |
| 21:33.13 | eightyeight | on an unrelated note, suppose you have a file, or output of one per line of usernames, or file paths, or whatever |
| 21:33.18 | eightyeight | and you want space-separated output |
| 21:33.21 | eightyeight | you could: |
| 21:33.28 | eightyeight | $ cat file.txt | tr '\n' ' ' |
| 21:33.31 | eightyeight | better: |
| 21:33.36 | eightyeight | $ paste -s file.txt |
| 21:33.44 | eightyeight | or: |
| 21:34.02 | eightyeight | $ awk '{<complicated code>}' | sort | paste -s |
| 21:34.07 | eightyeight | win |
| 21:37.28 | jxqz | the less subshells spawned, the better |
| 21:37.45 | fugue88 | eightyeight: Amazingly, I looked at the login manager code about a year ago to figure out why it didn't auto-fill some login forms I use. I discovered a UI action for managing your saved passwords. |
| 21:37.56 | jxqz | the less regular expressionry used, the better |
| 21:38.09 | fugue88 | When you get the drop-down autocomplete list for a login field, you can press the delete button to remove the account. |
| 21:38.17 | fugue88 | Works in most autocomplete field in Firefox. |
| 21:39.33 | fugue88 | eightyeight: toolkit/components/passwordmgr/nsILoginManagerCrypto.idl says it simply uses the NSS "Secret Decoder Ring Service" |
| 21:40.04 | fugue88 | So... rot13? ;P |
| 21:40.08 | eightyeight | haha |
| 21:40.13 | eightyeight | "cap'n crunch" |
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| 21:56.04 | fugue88 | eightyeight: Looks like 3des in cbc mode. |
| 21:56.30 | fugue88 | See nss's lib/pk11wrap/pk11sdr.c |
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| 21:59.18 | fugue88 | The password store does seem to store the algorithm ID, so you might be able to select a different default, but some other parts of the code might be hard-wired for 3des. |
| 22:06.27 | jxqz | you should submit a patch to change that to 33des |
| 22:06.39 | jxqz | or even better rot25536 |
| 22:06.48 | jxqz | ~2**16 |
| 22:06.48 | infobot | 65536 |
| 22:07.10 | jxqz | rot65536 (don't know where 25536 came from) |
| 22:07.29 | eightyeight | fugue88: ah. nice. thx! |
| 22:07.43 | fugue88 | :) |
| 22:21.14 | jxqz | lots of 'data scientist' jobs out there |
| 22:21.26 | jxqz | refrains from scoffing |
| 22:25.54 | jlp_znc | scoffs on behalf of jxqz |
| 22:26.30 | jxqz | gives in |
| 22:29.28 | jxqz | what the scoff is a "data scientist"? |
| 22:34.07 | jxqz | should probably be added to buzzword bingo |
| 22:40.50 | shalkie | Oh good! UPS sent me an unsolicted report. And they conveniently sent it in a compact zip formatted attachement! I should open this right away on my oldest and unpatched version of windows! |
| 22:42.13 | jxqz | do it! |
| 22:42.25 | jlp_znc | you definitely should |
| 22:42.28 | fugue88 | I heard this great idea several years ago, that any form of "education" that included the word "education" in its title, wasn't really education at all. Examples: "Physical Education", "Sexual Education", etc. |
| 22:42.49 | jlp_znc | math education |
| 22:43.03 | fugue88 | As opposed to just math, yes. :) |
| 22:43.12 | jlp_znc | (as opposed to pure or appliied math) |
| 22:43.38 | fugue88 | I think the same idea applies to "scientist." Real scientists are physicists, biologists, etc. Compare: data scientist, political scientist, ... |
| 22:43.45 | jlp_znc | BYU math department had basically three kinds of mathematicians. pure (theoretical) math, applied math, and math ed. |
| 22:43.54 | fugue88 | Dataologist? Politicologist? |
| 22:44.04 | fugue88 | jlp_znc: hahaha! |
| 22:44.18 | fugue88 | Unfortunately, I'm too familiar with how "math ed" goes. |
| 22:44.23 | jlp_znc | math ed == teaching people how to teach math |
| 22:44.52 | jlp_znc | worked at the BYU math department for six years |
| 22:44.55 | jxqz | I read an article in the Atlantic yesterday saying the same thing |
| 22:45.09 | fugue88 | jxqz: Link? |
| 22:45.09 | jlp_znc | it was fun trying to balance people's desired use of capital equipment money |
| 22:45.39 | jxqz | food that is declared to be 'delicious' does so because people expect it to not be |
| 22:45.50 | jlp_znc | applied math people wanted big number crunching computers. math ed people wanted macs and NeXTs and math software like Mathematica and Maple. |
| 22:45.57 | jlp_znc | pure math people wanted more chalk |
| 22:46.21 | fugue88 | lol |
| 22:46.35 | jxqz | whereas if you go to a good restaurant, they don't have to convince you |
| 22:49.05 | jxqz | fugue88: http://www.motherjones.com/media/2014/09/taco-bell-menu-jurafsky-language-food |
| 22:50.10 | fugue88 | jxqz: Thanks! |
| 22:51.43 | jxqz | mojo, not atlantic |
| 22:51.49 | jxqz | I often get them confused |
| 22:52.34 | jxqz | Senior Science Evangelist |
| 22:52.51 | jxqz | Theoretical Science Promulgator |
| 22:53.01 | jxqz | VP of Science |
| 22:54.04 | jxqz | Guru of Scientific Jargon |
| 22:54.12 | harleypig | What would cause a login attempt to be denied to one ip but not another? |
| 22:54.15 | harleypig | using ssh |
| 22:54.38 | jxqz | my language circuitry has been saddened by so many job descriptions |
| 22:55.03 | jxqz | harleypig: are these IPs on the same server? |
| 22:55.12 | fugue88 | harleypig: What type of denial, exactly? |
| 22:55.27 | jxqz | or are for systems identical in some way? |
| 22:55.44 | jxqz | most likely a permission issue |
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| 22:57.15 | fugue88 | harleypig: Wrong password, outdated ssh id on one box, tcpwrapper or firewall blocking an ip address, wrong username, a username is blocked in sshd_config, ... |
| 22:58.05 | harleypig | Hmmm ... I dashed that off without explaining anything. On serverA I type 'ssh user@my.cool.server' and it asks for a password. I type it in and it works just fine. |
| 22:58.27 | harleypig | On serverRalph I do the same thing but the login is denied. |
| 22:58.28 | fugue88 | jxqz: Great read. |
| 22:59.36 | harleypig | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:59.43 | jlp_znc | harleypig: ssh -v |
| 23:00.13 | jlp_znc | perhaps on serverRalph the password is different? |
| 23:00.44 | harleypig | debug1: Authentications that can continue: publickey,gssapi-keyex,gssapi-with-mic,password |
| 23:00.44 | harleypig | Permission denied, please try again. |
| 23:00.50 | jlp_znc | or does serverRalph not even prompt for a password? |
| 23:00.58 | harleypig | it prompts for a password |
| 23:01.03 | fugue88 | harleypig: Caps locks? |
| 23:01.12 | fugue88 | s/ks/k/ |
| 23:01.35 | fugue88 | Or some other character issue. You might even try "reset" to put the term in a known state. |
| 23:01.42 | harleypig | Nope. using screen. 'ssh user@...' from one screen, press ctl-a a to go to the next. |
| 23:01.57 | jlp_znc | ssh will put the terminal in noecho mode when it prompts for a password, anyway |
| 23:01.57 | jxqz | harleypig: if you're already on user@serverRalph, try changing the pword |
| 23:02.12 | jlp_znc | yeah, my money is on the password being wrong |
| 23:02.12 | harleypig | I have, three times. |
| 23:02.26 | harleypig | the password works from serverA |
| 23:02.27 | fugue88 | "Account locked out for excessive password changes." ;) |
| 23:02.34 | jlp_znc | anything weird in /etc/sshd_config? |
| 23:02.41 | harleypig | Not that I can see. |
| 23:02.51 | harleypig | Very little changed from the defaults. |
| 23:02.52 | jlp_znc | the user isn't root, is it? |
| 23:02.53 | jxqz | perms on ~, ~/.ssh? |
| 23:03.01 | jlp_znc | ssh -v would show that |
| 23:03.06 | jxqz | for both origin and serverralph |
| 23:03.25 | fugue88 | serverRalph's ssh isn't really old, is it? |
| 23:03.51 | jlp_znc | on serverRalph, as user, can you do "sudo -l" and get something meaningful? |
| 23:04.05 | jlp_znc | (that will confirm that it likes the password, at least) |
| 23:04.32 | harleypig | ssh -vv shows password prompt then 'debug2: we sent a password packet, wait for reply' then the permission denied and the same entry on the host /var/log/secure (failed password) |
| 23:04.42 | jlp_znc | double-check /etc/pam.d for something weird for ssh auth |
| 23:05.01 | harleypig | sudo is not installed on the host |
| 23:05.16 | jlp_znc | how about if you log in to the host and run "login user" |
| 23:05.23 | jlp_znc | it should prompt you for a password |
| 23:05.39 | jlp_znc | or, if you're non-root, "su user" should prompt you for user's password |
| 23:05.54 | harleypig | wait ... you're missing the other part. From serverA I can login to the host using the password. |
| 23:06.14 | jlp_znc | oh oh oh, I was assuming you could log into serverA with the user and password |
| 23:06.37 | jlp_znc | not from serverA -> serverRalph. I get it now. |
| 23:06.50 | harleypig | serverA -> host: ssh user@host , get prompt, enter password, works |
| 23:07.04 | harleypig | serverRalph -> host: ssh user@host, get prompt, etner password, fails |
| 23:07.30 | harleypig | At one point I changed 'host' password to 1234 to make sure I wasn't fat fingering it somehow. Got the same result. |
| 23:07.35 | jlp_znc | I see. I still had it wrong. thought you were trying to log into serverRalph |
| 23:07.52 | jxqz | if you hire me all of your wildest dreams will come true |
| 23:07.58 | jlp_znc | so, "which ssh" on serverA and serverRalph, also "ssh -V" |
| 23:08.04 | jxqz | PM for dream fulfillment |
| 23:08.04 | harleypig | jxqz: I don't think you're cute enough ... |
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| 23:08.27 | jlp_znc | and, on host, is there anything weird in /etc/pam.d/sshd? |
| 23:08.38 | jxqz | harleypig: I strive for elegance, 'cute' is a pejorative and a euphemism for sketchy work |
| 23:08.51 | harleypig | my wildest dreams are sketchy |
| 23:08.52 | jlp_znc | in other words, he's not cute |
| 23:08.55 | jxqz | heh |
| 23:09.23 | harleypig | serverralph ssh -V: OpenSSH_5.3p1, OpenSSL 1.0.1e-fips 11 Feb 2013 |
| 23:09.43 | harleypig | serverA ssh -V: OpenSSH_5.8p1 Debian-1ubuntu3, OpenSSL 0.9.8o 01 Jun 2010 |
| 23:10.07 | harleypig | host ssh -V: OpenSSH_5.3p1, OpenSSL 1.0.1e-fips 11 Feb 2013 |
| 23:10.12 | jlp_znc | interesting |
| 23:10.27 | jlp_znc | so, host and serverralph are redhat (or centos)? |
| 23:10.34 | harleypig | serverralph and host are both centos 6 |
| 23:10.35 | harleypig | yeah |
| 23:10.46 | harleypig | serverA is an arch box |
| 23:10.57 | jlp_znc | did you check /etc/pam.d/sshd? |
| 23:11.01 | harleypig | err ... no it's not, it's an old ubuntu box |
| 23:11.26 | jlp_znc | anything in /etc/hosts.deny on host? |
| 23:11.37 | harleypig | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/VFaDcLKJ |
| 23:11.56 | harleypig | as far as I can tell, it's a default config |
| 23:12.49 | jlp_znc | okay, it's including password-auth... anything in there? |
| 23:13.42 | harleypig | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/5QfHQtol |
| 23:13.52 | harleypig | Again, as far as i can tell, this is a default config. |
| 23:14.53 | fugue88 | How's /etc/shadow look? Mind pasting that? JUST KIDDING DON'T DO IT :) |
| 23:15.27 | harleypig | shur ... jes' a sec |
| 23:16.10 | harleypig | I just don't see how this setup would fail one but not the other. |
| 23:17.04 | jlp_znc | on host, does serverralph look any different from serverA? like, reverse DNS coming up with something different |
| 23:17.35 | jlp_znc | so on host, something like "host serverA" "host <serverA's IP>" "host serverralph" and "host <serverralph's IP>" |
| 23:19.40 | harleypig | yeah, it does actually. serverralph is a vm in a cloudstack |
| 23:20.19 | harleypig | so the reverse lookup shows a different host ... however, this was working on a different instance of this same setup. |
| 23:20.32 | harleypig | host is a vm on another cloud |
| 23:20.40 | harleypig | err cloudstack setup. |
| 23:21.28 | harleypig | if I do 'host host-ip' it points to a different servername. |
| 23:23.18 | jlp_znc | how about if you then do host that_new_servername? |
| 23:26.18 | harleypig | it points to the ip (from host, 'host serverralph' returns 3.4.5.6, 'host 3.4.5.6' returns 6-5-4-3.cloud.securesites.net, 'host blah.securesites.net' returns 3.4.5.6 |
| 23:27.53 | harleypig | how would any of this cause pam or ssh to report a failed password? |
| 23:30.25 | jlp_znc | I'm still thinking something is trying to validate the connection and not liking what it is seeing |
| 23:32.18 | jlp_znc | hmmm, anything in the ~/.ssh/config file about what cipher to use? |
| 23:33.04 | jlp_znc | clocks different? |
| 23:33.48 | jlp_znc | can you run sshd on a different port on host with -ddd and see if anything useful ends up in the logs? |
| 23:34.15 | harleypig | well, serverralph is on utc, host is edt ... but it looks correct (looks up how to print different timezone with date) |
| 23:34.25 | jlp_znc | TZ=UTC date |
| 23:35.17 | harleypig | date -u works too, for utc |
| 23:35.27 | harleypig | and yes, they appear to be the same. |
| 23:36.05 | harleypig | run 'watch date -u' on both and hold down ctl-a ... no flickering. |
| 23:36.25 | jlp_znc | maybe kick the LogLevel up in /etc/ssh/sshd_config |
| 23:36.29 | jnbek | flickers harleypig; blames Chickens |
| 23:36.34 | jlp_znc | (instead of running with -ddd) |
| 23:36.36 | harleypig | heh |
| 23:37.47 | jlp_znc | can I see the sshd_config from host? |
| 23:38.34 | jlp_znc | wonders if some fips knob is getting in the way |
| 23:40.46 | harleypig | http://pastebin.com/FmrrUjXz |
| 23:40.49 | harleypig | It's a very basic config |
| 23:42.18 | jlp_znc | hmmm, nothing useful in there. I say turn on the high debug level (easy to run an sshd on a different port for that) and see what you get in the log |
| 23:42.45 | jlp_znc | i.e. sshd -p 2222 -ddd |
| 23:45.48 | *** join/#utah pdayton (~Adium@63.251.sfcn.org) |
| 23:46.29 | jlp_znc | hmmm, anything weird in the environment on the client side? different between the two hosts? env > /tmp/foo and then diff them. |
| 23:46.40 | jlp_znc | env | sort > /tmp/foo :-) |
| 23:49.38 | jlp_znc | also compare /etc/ssh/ssh_config on serverA and serverRalph |