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| 04:37.59 | Heartsbane | Jayce: harleypig: most fun ever on Facebook |
| 04:40.54 | harleypig | Heh |
| 04:41.02 | jxqz | bookface |
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| 04:56.45 | Heartsbane | harleypig: http://i60.tinypic.com/2hpu05d.jpg |
| 05:02.26 | harleypig | :D |
| 05:06.17 | Heartsbane | I still broken up about no Viking funeral |
| 05:06.32 | Heartsbane | I had no plans this weekend |
| 05:06.47 | Heartsbane | I was really looking forward to it |
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| 15:02.34 | Jayce | Heartsbane_++ |
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| 16:15.19 | davido__ | Salt Lake Perl Mongers is tonight. Special out of town guest presenter: Ingy dot Net. http://saltlake.pm.org . This will be your only warning. ;) |
| 16:17.07 | Oberon4278 | I don't suppose anyone here works for, or knows someone who works for, the NTT/Verio group that (as of ~10 years ago, anyway) is located in the old Novell campus in Orem? |
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| 16:48.19 | jsmith | Oberon4278: Ten or eleven years ago, I worked with someone who had previously worked there -- its that good enough? |
| 16:51.19 | jlp_vnc | Oberon4278: maybe |
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| 17:02.58 | jlp_vnc | nope, my contacts are no longer working at Verio. they might know someone who is, though. |
| 17:03.28 | jlp_vnc | what level of contact are you looking for? |
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| 17:27.10 | Jayce | harleypig is there |
| 17:50.45 | Oberon4278 | someone in support |
| 17:51.10 | Oberon4278 | I want to look into getting a VPS there, but Verio's web site doesn't make any distinction between the ones I'm familiar with and others |
| 17:51.42 | jxqz | 'we offer familiar and unfamiliar VPS!' |
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| 17:58.44 | unum | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/620001568/jackpair-safeguard-your-phone-conversation |
| 17:59.14 | unum | seems like we need an email encryption protocol based on Diffie-Hellman-Merkle key exchange protocol |
| 17:59.40 | unum | but I guess you couldn't make that end to end |
| 17:59.42 | Oberon4278 | jxqz: They just have a bunch of different products and I can't tell which is which based on their web site :P |
| 17:59.50 | unum | since the client wouldn't always be connected |
| 18:02.45 | Jayce | anybody else get a protonmail account? |
| 18:03.47 | Oberon4278 | So with the JackPair, do you have to sync the devices in person before they'll be secure? |
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| 18:04.21 | Oberon4278 | If not, how do they transfer information over the wire without also giving up the ability to decrypt that info to a third party? |
| 18:04.48 | unum | Oberon4278: no, they have an animation explaining it |
| 18:05.17 | Oberon4278 | The one with the "privacy" bubbles going back and forth? |
| 18:05.19 | unum | but you do need to read the numbers to each other to verify that it worked |
| 18:05.33 | unum | the one with the colors |
| 18:05.41 | unum | "Whis jackpair secure" |
| 18:05.58 | unum | now I understand better I see why this won't work at all for email |
| 18:06.10 | Oberon4278 | that doesn't really answer the question... |
| 18:06.30 | unum | you don't need to sync up before hand |
| 18:06.36 | RyanE | Look at the shiny thing. That for sure means it's secure... :) |
| 18:06.44 | unum | partly because you do so after wards |
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| 18:13.56 | unum | need to make sure eightyeight and pashdown see those |
| 18:17.36 | Oberon4278 | Okay, but how do they get the decryption information to the other device in a way that doesn't allow a third party (also with a device) to decrypt it? |
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| 18:23.44 | unum | Oberon4278: they two devices work together to create a one time key, using the diffe-hellman-merkle key exchange protocol |
| 18:24.19 | Oberon4278 | ok |
| 18:24.26 | Oberon4278 | so it's actually possible |
| 18:25.40 | eightyeight | unum: see what? |
| 18:26.06 | unum | eightyeight: the link I posted above about jackpair, phone encryption |
| 18:26.19 | eightyeight | ah |
| 18:26.27 | Oberon4278 | yeah, that looks cool |
| 18:26.28 | harleypig | how many people are still using landlines? |
| 18:26.38 | Oberon4278 | you should be able to use it with your cell phone as well |
| 18:26.45 | unum | harleypig: over the age of 40? |
| 18:26.54 | Oberon4278 | My landlord does. He's 20-something. |
| 18:26.58 | unum | weird |
| 18:27.01 | Oberon4278 | But he's also entirely clueless. |
| 18:27.17 | unum | but this was designed for use with a headset, so you could use it on any audio system |
| 18:27.36 | harleypig | Most of the older folk in my ward don't use their landlines anymore, though they keep them because it's cheap enough through spanish fork not to bother |
| 18:27.40 | eightyeight | yeah. it seems to be targeting cellular phones |
| 18:27.42 | Oberon4278 | When I moved in I asked what he planned to do with the dead trees in the back yard. His response was, "There are dead trees?" |
| 18:28.01 | harleypig | hmmm ... maybe I should reskim the kickstarter page |
| 18:28.11 | unum | we've recently moved all our agents to usb head sets |
| 18:28.19 | Oberon4278 | I pointed to what was left of a couple of tree trunks, with no branches *or* bark to be seen. "Oh, I didn't know those were dead!" |
| 18:28.28 | eightyeight | too bad it's using diffie-hellman |
| 18:28.36 | Oberon4278 | What's wrong with diffie-hellman? |
| 18:28.36 | eightyeight | D-H is subject to a MITM attack |
| 18:28.38 | RyanE | we have a landline, but it's mainly due to momentum |
| 18:28.45 | eightyeight | if the two ends are not previously authenticated |
| 18:28.48 | harleypig | Oh, hey, look! There's even a picture of it being used with a cellphone. |
| 18:28.49 | Oberon4278 | that's what the confirmation codes are for |
| 18:28.55 | harleypig | crawls back under his rock. |
| 18:28.59 | unum | eightyeight: that's why you have to voice verify after wards |
| 18:29.01 | eightyeight | i admit, i'm still reading it |
| 18:29.07 | Oberon4278 | did the same thing :) |
| 18:29.17 | unum | though if someone can inject your voice with those numbers.... |
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| 18:29.49 | harleypig | Why use jackpair over redphone? https://whispersystems.org/ |
| 18:31.45 | Oberon4278 | unum: Normally I'd say you're just being paranoid now, but since the bad guy in this scenario is the government I think that's an interesting concern. |
| 18:32.45 | eightyeight | how am i guaranteed there isn't a backdoor into jackpair. after all, it's a proprietary black box |
| 18:32.53 | eightyeight | might as well just use a different 3rd party phone |
| 18:32.55 | unum | eightyeight: it is? |
| 18:33.14 | Oberon4278 | Yeah, there's that too. |
| 18:33.30 | eightyeight | unum: i don't see any open hardware specifications, or source code |
| 18:33.39 | eightyeight | the only reference to open source that they use, is salsa20 |
| 18:33.41 | Oberon4278 | Isn't there a way to x-ray the device and see what's actually in it? |
| 18:33.59 | Oberon4278 | And how would you confirm that the device is actually running the code they claim it to be running? |
| 18:34.07 | eightyeight | ah. there we go: |
| 18:34.19 | eightyeight | "We plan to make it open source for the encryption software in JackPair." |
| 18:34.28 | eightyeight | "In addition to open source software, we intend to do open hardware for JackPair as well. The schematics and gerber-files will be publicly available to make it easier for everyone to review." |
| 18:35.28 | Oberon4278 | And is it possible to verify that the electronics in the chip match their schematics? |
| 18:36.20 | eightyeight | i've personally not been a fan of "fund first, open source second" |
| 18:36.33 | Oberon4278 | I thought that once a chip was sealed in the black plastic thingie, it was basically impossible to figure out what circuits are on it? |
| 18:36.34 | eightyeight | why not give us the schematics/source first, then announce the kicktsarter? |
| 18:37.14 | eightyeight | Oberon4278: yeah. i suspect that any attempt at a backdoor in the hardware or software will be found though |
| 18:37.22 | Oberon4278 | How? |
| 18:37.32 | unum | harleypig: good point |
| 18:38.46 | eightyeight | even the intel on-die rng was suspected to be faulty before the snowden docs |
| 18:38.47 | harleypig | Is hardware encryption better than software encryption? |
| 18:38.57 | eightyeight | if intel can't hide it, i doubt a few graduate engineers can |
| 18:39.50 | Oberon4278 | What was the intel on-die rng thing? |
| 18:41.29 | eightyeight | the rdrand controversy |
| 18:41.31 | rsimpkins | Remember, it isn't about making it impossible. It is about making it expensive. |
| 18:41.46 | eightyeight | finds an article |
| 18:42.55 | eightyeight | Oberon4278: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_EC_DRBG |
| 18:43.21 | eightyeight | Oberon4278: i had that and rdrand mixed up |
| 18:43.48 | eightyeight | http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/12/we-cannot-trust-intel-and-vias-chip-based-crypto-freebsd-developers-say/ addresses the intel rdrand instruction set, as well as the via padlock |
| 18:44.08 | eightyeight | there was a debate about only using rdrand for /dev/random, instead of the sha1 mixing it currently does |
| 18:44.44 | eightyeight | theodore tso resisted that idea, and suggested that instead it present itself as a separate hardware device, if someone wants to use it |
| 18:45.01 | eightyeight | freebsd backed away as well, feeding it into their yarrow csprng instead |
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| 19:08.30 | tensai | unum: what headset model are you using? |
| 19:11.31 | unum | tensai: Plantronics Blackwire C320 |
| 19:17.06 | tensai | we're using the Plantronics Audio 655 and agents complain that it breaks way too easily |
| 19:17.36 | tensai | but then they balk when we make them pay to replace it |
| 19:20.34 | unum | we were using a logitic model but they all broke |
| 19:20.38 | unum | well most of them |
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| 20:19.46 | basepi | How do I computer? |
| 20:22.21 | unum | basepi: rm -rf /* |
| 20:22.33 | RyanE | such wow |
| 20:22.55 | basepi | unum: I should put sudo in front of that, right? |
| 20:22.59 | basepi | Because sudo = better? |
| 20:28.53 | rsimpkins | sudo - some users don't observe |
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| 21:15.21 | unum | basepi: correct |
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| 21:33.56 | eightyeight | go for it. it won't work without '--no-preserve-root' |
| 21:34.27 | eightyeight | the default of rm(1) is 'rm --preserve-root' |
| 22:02.34 | levi | Oberon4278: For a fun description of how hacking of somewhat recent hardware works, this is a fun and free book: http://www.nostarch.com/xbox.htm |
| 22:04.00 | levi | Verifying that chips match their designs is certainly not getting any easier these days, though. |
| 23:16.45 | Oberon4278 | levi: cool, thanks! |
| 23:16.51 | Oberon4278 | and good night to all |
| 23:54.49 | harleypig | 0[hnq3]240thn34q |
| 23:54.51 | harleypig | go m 345t\wwagvfaw3jhn |
| 23:54.51 | harleypig | v |
