| 00:07.50 | jlp_znc | it means you have a #! line at the top of your file that includes arguments? |
| 00:08.16 | jlp_znc | note that historically, exec only honored one argument on the #! line... I don't know if that is still the case |
| 00:09.03 | jlp_znc | is authenticate1.pl setuid? |
| 00:10.32 | jlp_znc | (you know that setuid shell scripts are in general not supported, but that perl tries to fake it by running the tainted version of perl, right?) |
| 00:12.53 | jlp_znc | and that there is a thing called suidperl that is responsible for faking the honoring of setuid bits on perl scripts? |
| 00:13.23 | jlp_znc | https://mattmccutchen.net/suidperl.html |
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| 01:05.46 | jxqz | why do you care that the args match? |
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| 03:36.04 | tapuea | hello |
| 03:53.12 | TodPunk | hi |
| 03:53.15 | TodPunk | now what? |
| 03:53.32 | levi | Yo, TodPunk. |
| 03:53.47 | tapuea | what was the behaviour of Mormons during the american civil war? |
| 03:53.49 | tapuea | did they partake? |
| 03:54.11 | TodPunk | hi levi |
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| 03:55.19 | TodPunk | tapuea: #utah probably isn't the best place to ask about mormon history. We happen to be located in the state, we do not necessarily happen to be LDS theologians. Though we might have some, I guess. |
| 03:55.40 | TodPunk | You're better off asking an LDS group or searching the web |
| 03:57.00 | TodPunk | levi: do you do much with databases? Seems one of your lesser fortes, but I thought I'd ask |
| 03:57.43 | tapuea | sorry to generalize TodPunk |
| 03:58.26 | TodPunk | tapuea: no problem, I was trying to help you find answers, not criticize. It just required some assessment on my part, sad as that makes us all |
| 04:05.26 | levi | TodPunk: I don't do much with them, but I'm familiar with databases in general. |
| 04:06.04 | TodPunk | levi: that's what I thought. I don't have a followup question, mind you. Just curious, as my thoughts are on databases the past couple days |
| 04:06.15 | levi | tapuea: For a brief Mormon-church oriented look at the period, see: https://www.lds.org/manual/church-history-in-the-fulness-of-times-student-manual/chapter-thirty-the-civil-war-period?lang=eng |
| 04:07.30 | tapuea | interesting |
| 04:08.24 | tapuea | seems like they were very careful to avvoid irritating the federal government |
| 04:08.46 | TodPunk | politics being what they are, that's sort of what you'd expect |
| 04:08.48 | levi | TodPunk: My brother is a database expert, but I have mostly just skirted them. |
| 04:08.48 | tapuea | and didnt really help them either apart from protecting lines of communications mostly from indian raids |
| 04:09.28 | tapuea | not from confederates |
| 04:09.32 | levi | tapuea: Well, the Mormon church has always had mixed feelings about the federal government. |
| 04:09.54 | TodPunk | levi: and its members moreso |
| 04:10.22 | TodPunk | really the LDS populace runs the entire gamut |
| 04:10.32 | tapuea | probably just their presence deterred some distruptions of lines and telegraph to the west coast |
| 04:11.26 | TodPunk | Nah, Utah has a rich history of embracing infrastructure, including its benefits from the railroad |
| 04:11.38 | TodPunk | now if only we had done Utopianet.org right |
| 04:11.57 | tapuea | looks like they only had 100 cavalry to this cause |
| 04:13.29 | tapuea | I read that the LDS used to teach that african americans were spritually unclean. how did they explain it when preaching to other "non-while" races in oversea missionary activities? |
| 04:13.43 | tapuea | "non-white" |
| 04:14.26 | TodPunk | depends on your LDS populace |
| 04:15.15 | levi | tapuea: Well, that is a bit of a difficult topic, as there tended to be different takes on it from the leadership. |
| 04:15.17 | TodPunk | obviously the prevailing amount of Utah based LDS people had something related to that opinion, either of their own reasoning or picking up on it culturally, but there were a lot of other opinions |
| 04:15.34 | tapuea | did they avoid proselyting to blacks? |
| 04:15.42 | TodPunk | Not really, no |
| 04:15.56 | tapuea | did they ahve missionaries in africa? |
| 04:15.58 | levi | tapuea: Nope; they even sent missionaries to African countries. |
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| 04:16.28 | tapuea | levi, outside of Afrikaans in SA? |
| 04:16.33 | TodPunk | Joseph Smith actually ordained several black priesthood members. It's a really weird sentiment to see play out through LDS history, and there's a LOT of data out there to examine on the subject |
| 04:17.03 | tapuea | so he was fairly liberal for the time |
| 04:17.08 | tapuea | right |
| 04:17.11 | tapuea | they were northern states right? |
| 04:17.16 | tapuea | the early memebrs |
| 04:17.35 | tapuea | were they abolitionists? |
| 04:18.04 | TodPunk | The gist of the data seems to indicate that relations with black populations were a mixed bag depending on which group you talked to when, and the "official" church stance on the subject was rarely agreed upon at most points in history, albeit several portions of church leadership in various areas did have some rather extreme opinions either way |
| 04:18.06 | tapuea | hwo did that work in pro-slavery missouri? |
| 04:19.02 | TodPunk | I have no idea on the positions of the LDS histories on the civil war or its politics. My interest in the LDS church and its history isn't that deep |
| 04:20.09 | tapuea | they took a racist turin after the death of J Smith? |
| 04:20.13 | tapuea | turn |
| 04:20.40 | tapuea | towards individuals of african descent |
| 04:21.15 | TodPunk | Not really. Like most mixed groups, and indeed most people of the time, they had some inherited racism of varying degrees, but milder than average US stance on the matter. |
| 04:21.35 | tapuea | https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood |
| 04:21.40 | tapuea | im looking at this |
| 04:22.07 | TodPunk | keep in mind that utah mormons included a lot of Non-US populations as well, though most of those were from the british isles |
| 04:23.26 | TodPunk | the majority of US members came from northern, particular north-western, states and territories, which helped color this milder take |
| 04:23.49 | tapuea | seems like B Young didnt have the liberal race attitudes of his predecessor and largely set the tone for mormon perspectives on blacks for hte next century |
| 04:24.34 | levi | tapuea: While the coverage of stuff on lds.org tends to be correct in the facts that it mentions, it's not necessarily a deep, exhaustive coverage of the relevant facts as you'd get from an "impartial historian", if such a being existed. |
| 04:24.51 | tapuea | sure |
| 04:25.16 | tapuea | he declared the priesthood inaccessible to black memebrs and he permitted slave owners immigrating from slave states to retain their slaves in Utah |
| 04:25.17 | TodPunk | Nah, that's a fairly limited characterization. Brigham Young said all kinds of things that were off-the-wall at one time or another. His feelings on race weren't consistent any more than his views on a lot of other topics |
| 04:25.35 | tapuea | rationale seems that they were "cursed" because they were descendants of either Cain or Ham |
| 04:25.59 | TodPunk | well, if you say so, I guess |
| 04:27.01 | TodPunk | levi: Chip8 decompiler a friend of mine wrote this morning: https://github.com/JohnEarnest/Octo/blob/gh-pages/decompiler.js |
| 04:27.15 | tapuea | TodPunk, thats what lds.org suggests |
| 04:28.52 | TodPunk | tapuea: I still think it's an oversimplification of it. I'd call it "the intro" to the topic, maybe. There's more interesting stuff deeper in there, both in Brigham Young's life and in church policies of the era |
| 04:29.07 | tapuea | I'm sure there is :) |
| 04:29.57 | tapuea | "Around the turn of the century, another explanation gained currency: blacks were said to have been less than fully valiant in the premortal battle against Lucifer and, as a consequence, were restricted from priesthood and temple blessing" |
| 04:30.10 | TodPunk | Granted I was raised LDS, or I wouldn't have been interested in the first place. The race thing has been interesting because I grew up in Chicagoland area and in California, where the questions have a little larger perspective |
| 04:31.05 | levi | tapuea: One thing to keep in mind about the Mormon church is that it's not got the same sort of theology and set dogma that traditional christian churches have got. And this leaves a lot of room for "grassroots" theology among various layers of the hierarchy. |
| 04:31.54 | tapuea | seems pretty consistent with what was happening at the time - people were rationalizing slavery and inferiority of blacks. |
| 04:31.56 | TodPunk | meaning, anyone can come up with an explanation and it can get popular among a large group without being actual doctrine |
| 04:32.19 | tapuea | I understand. |
| 04:33.23 | TodPunk | See, this is where I think your characterization is flawed for any topic: "people were rationalizing slavery and inferiority of blacks." Which people? Why? Which blacks? Inferior in what way? To whom? The statement is incensed, meaning it carries more emotional response than data. "People" were doing all sorts of things |
| 04:33.30 | TodPunk | some crazy, some not. Some good, some not |
| 04:34.23 | TodPunk | it has less to do with the subject of the LDS church or blacks or what have you, and more to do with your approach of learning on a subject of human history. It's just as flawed to apply that statement to any number of Greek eras |
| 04:34.26 | levi | And due to structural issues caused by friction with the federal government, it became somewhat difficult to stamp out incorrect grassroots ideas after they gained enough of a foothold. |
| 04:35.11 | TodPunk | I used to get very bored with philosophy majors over their characterization of the greeks =c( |
| 04:35.13 | tapuea | TodPunk, it makes sense, people would have to rationalize why God would have a seemingly racit policy in place and would punish people for their ancestry or the color of their skin. and this explains why Mormons embraced the idea that blakcs were somehow "less valiant in the preexistence" |
| 04:36.43 | TodPunk | Most greeks didn't give a damn about politics or art. They just wanted to live their lives like most people throughout history. It sort of puts it in a different light when Socrates and his "students" were minority groups we'd probably call trolls today |
| 04:37.33 | levi | Well, our own philosophers today are a minority group we sometimes call trolls today. ;) |
| 04:37.55 | TodPunk | Indeed, and we don't attribute the entirety of our culture to them =cP |
| 04:38.38 | TodPunk | I remember one point made by a guy I can't remember the name of, but I remember the sentence he used. "The greeks were very concerned with truth." |
| 04:38.50 | TodPunk | wtf is that even supposed to say? |
| 04:39.52 | levi | Heh. |
| 04:41.11 | TodPunk | Anyway, as fascinating as this has been to pontificate about, I'm going back to my thinking on databases and reporting abstractions while I distract my eyes for a bit |
| 04:41.23 | levi | What sort of database stuff? |
| 04:41.38 | goozbach | bah, properly auditing tty output is harder than it should be |
| 04:41.51 | goozbach | with auditd I can audit all the commands run, but not the output |
| 04:42.15 | goozbach | ttylog (perl script) allows for connection after the fact, so I'd have to build a framework around it |
| 04:43.50 | goozbach | snoop does real time (ie not to file) |
| 04:46.37 | goozbach | there's a pam module which does just commands too |
| 04:52.59 | TodPunk | levi: normal CRUD stuff |
| 04:53.24 | TodPunk | (nothing fancy, sadly) |
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| 04:54.23 | jxqz | auditing is tedious |
| 04:54.29 | levi | goozbach: Auditing all tty output seems to run a bit counter to traditional Unix ethos. |
| 04:55.22 | jalbretsen | Try PCI Audits, those are fun |
| 04:56.55 | levi | TodPunk: That Chip8 decompiler looks interesting. It reminds me of a static analyzer. |
| 04:57.26 | TodPunk | jalbretsen: I see your PCI audits and raise you MPAA audits |
| 04:59.28 | jalbretsen | TodPunk - Worse than a SAS70? |
| 05:00.02 | goozbach | levi: customer reqest |
| 05:00.20 | goozbach | just trying to figure it out |
| 05:00.24 | goozbach | gonna have to punt I suppose |
| 05:01.15 | TodPunk | jalbretsen: I have had to implement encryption layers stronger than anything specified in any government branch, just so I could store shitty 248x324 movie encodes in an environment physically and electrically disconnected from the rest of the building |
| 05:01.56 | TodPunk | It's not just that it's intense, it's that it is all so asinine at the same time |
| 05:01.58 | jalbretsen | good fun |
| 05:02.21 | TodPunk | life lesson: content publishers are stupid |
| 05:02.33 | jalbretsen | oh ya, PCI has some pretty WTF stuff. Some things I end up going above their requirements |
| 05:03.10 | TodPunk | yeah, PCI is interesting. You look at some of it and think it's overkill, and some of the other stuff you wonder what they're even trying to accomplish |
| 05:03.17 | jalbretsen | other things, a "screenshot" is proof. |
| 05:03.34 | jalbretsen | pretty much my thoughts exactly |
| 05:03.45 | levi | You guys keep talking about PCI, and all I can think of is the computer bus. |
| 05:04.02 | TodPunk | I still do that, yeah |
| 05:04.16 | TodPunk | I prefer to think of the bus, to be honest |
| 05:04.29 | jalbretsen | I thought for sure v3 would increase the minimum password length. Nope, still 8. And everyone doesn't like that I make it more. A lot more. |
| 05:05.52 | jalbretsen | not that it's a cure all, but in 2014, 8 chars is a joke |
| 05:08.18 | jalbretsen | OH WAIT, I just looked it up. It's 7, not 8. |
| 05:11.43 | levi | TodPunk: So do you have some database puzzle or something? |
| 05:13.42 | jalbretsen | I do a pretty good job to make our stuff compliant. I swear our auditor must require themselves to come up with some suggestions no matter what. They scrapped the bottom of the barrel last time. They insisted I have a Anti-Virus Console. I looked, came back and show me where that is required. Nope, it's not, even in v3. But they still insisted I have it. I said what for? They said to maintain the configs. So I added a line in our |
| 05:15.59 | TodPunk | levi: no, it's work. I'm trying to think of ways of abstracting reporting on various things in the database in a testable way. Basically I'd like to write less SQL for basic relational data but I also hate ORMs, so I'm sort of shooting myself in the foot over the "ease" vs "performance" vs "units" debate in my head |
| 05:21.06 | TodPunk | jalbretsen: that is what auditors get paid to do. Stamping "approved" on things is never the prestigious route |
| 05:21.23 | TodPunk | sleeps |
| 05:22.28 | levi | TodPunk: Ah. Well, there are more abstractions over databases than ORMs! |
| 05:23.43 | levi | TodPunk: Python's SQL Alchemy, for example, has a relational abstraction. Also, LINQ for C# and friends. Possibly others I'm not aware of. |
| 05:25.28 | levi | But even if you don't use something like that at the bottom, there's likely to be some sort of thin abstraction between the basic database interactions and the rest of your code you can define and then make a test dummy implementation for. |
| 05:26.10 | goozbach | jalbretsen: added a line in your wHAT!? |
| 05:26.43 | jalbretsen | documentation |
| 05:26.59 | jalbretsen | you know, print out all your policies so we won't read them and then we get the approved stamp |
| 05:48.34 | levi | TodPunk: Oh, hey, the guy who wrote the Chip8 thing is the same guy who came to the programming things at tT, isn't he? |
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| 11:47.09 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds | OpenWest Conference sometime 2014! openwest.org | https://fiber.google.com/cities/provo/ |
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| 12:53.07 | TodPunk | levi: yes, yes he is |
| 12:56.41 | TodPunk | levi: I'm aware of those kinds of abstractions obviously, I'm more thinking about analysis type stuff, not getting rid of the SQL layer. We're actually using SQLAlchemy, coincidentally. I remember working with PHPs original mysql_* functions, so this is a godsend, truly. |
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| 15:03.04 | techhat | ~brulee cro |
| 15:03.04 | infobot | ACTION whisks cro with eggs and cream, and bakes at 350F before sprinkling with sugar and torching |
| 15:03.09 | cro | plays the Good the Bad and the Ugly theme |
| 15:03.18 | techhat | ~lart cro |
| 15:03.18 | infobot | follow's cro with a gauntlet and ... scratch ... HUMILIATION |
| 15:03.19 | cro | ~chip techhat |
| 15:03.20 | infobot | ACTION stuffs techhat through a wood chipper |
| 15:03.25 | techhat | ~bake cro |
| 15:03.25 | infobot | ACTION introduces cro to Cheech and Chong |
| 15:03.40 | cro | ~lart techhat |
| 15:03.40 | infobot | changes techhat's permissions to 0777 and tells the world |
| 15:03.45 | techhat | ~lart cro |
| 15:03.45 | infobot | whacks cro with a giant beaver's tail |
| 15:03.53 | cro | ~microwave techhat |
| 15:04.01 | cro | oh, guess that one doesn't work |
| 15:04.02 | techhat | ha ha! |
| 15:04.04 | techhat | i win! |
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| 15:04.08 | cro | you do |
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| 15:57.15 | jxqz | ~napoleon |
| 15:57.15 | infobot | There's like a buttload of gangs at this school. One of them kept wanting me to join because I'm pretty good with a bo-staff. |
| 15:57.43 | levi | TodPunk: Well, I don't think I have a clear enough idea of what you're thinking about to manage to think about the same thing myself. :) |
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| 16:00.06 | jxqz | ~napoleon levi |
| 16:00.06 | infobot | ACTION takes levi's girlfriend to the mall for glamor shots |
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| 16:02.33 | Tod-Work | levi, wasn't asking you to, but thank you for trying =c) |
| 16:03.02 | jxqz | yeah, levi, you're always giving unrequested helpful information and analysis |
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| 17:02.28 | jlp_znc | ~roy |
| 17:02.28 | infobot | People; What a bunch of bastards. |
| 17:03.09 | jxqz | ~nacho |
| 17:03.09 | infobot | Tonight I wrestle the seven strongest men in town, maybe the world. |
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| 17:54.15 | Tene | So, I've got a surprise phone screen to do today, as a second opinion on a guy that's a great sysadmin, but practically zero development experience. "Maybe basic shell scripting". I've been asked to evaluate him for whether I think he's particularly promising in capability to learn development skills. Anyone have any ideas on what I should talk with him about? |
| 17:54.46 | jlp_znc | see how he solves a problem |
| 17:54.59 | jlp_znc | do the classic "how do I tie my shoes, be specific" |
| 18:05.44 | joshh | how much do you guys care about him developing? just get a feel for how much he wants to learn and then help point him in the right directions |
| 18:05.56 | joshh | or if he doesn't need to develop, then don't bother |
| 18:11.33 | programmerq | Tene: if he's coming in to a local office for the interview, sit with him and have him *do* something |
| 18:11.47 | programmerq | adjust it to wherever his experience actually is |
| 18:11.57 | programmerq | and help him if he needs it, but let him drive. |
| 18:12.00 | Tene | programmerq: That's ideal, but this is a phone screen to decide whether to bring him in for an on-site interview. |
| 18:12.04 | programmerq | ah |
| 18:12.47 | Tene | joshh: We're okay on sysadmin experience on the team, but low on development experience after our most productive guy just left. |
| 18:13.47 | programmerq | yeah, I always wanted to look through code and give patches/diffs back to devs when I was doing the more "pure sysadmin" work. my coworkers thought I was nuts. |
| 18:14.14 | programmerq | they would rather find some hack/workaround and not talk to the devs at all. |
| 18:14.16 | programmerq | shrugs |
| 18:14.58 | Tene | Yeah, it's hard to find someone who does both well. |
| 18:15.16 | programmerq | these days my actual responsibilities have shifted to doing more "pure dev" type work |
| 18:15.18 | Tene | Many won't even look at the source to figure out problems or behaviour details of services they run. |
| 18:15.24 | programmerq | but my sysadmin comes out, and the rest of my team loves it. |
| 18:28.30 | goozbach | got the "waiting for the UPS truck" jitters! |
| 18:31.23 | jsmith | goozbach: What shiny object did you get this time? |
| 18:33.55 | goozbach | htc one (m8) |
| 18:34.04 | goozbach | first new phone in nearly three years |
| 18:34.23 | goozbach | the jitters are because we're getting ready to head to SLC to go car shopping |
| 18:34.45 | goozbach | so I'm waiting on the truck, but can't wait all day :( |
| 18:35.09 | programmerq | I think I'm going to outright buy my next phone. I want an unlocked multiband phone |
| 18:35.17 | goozbach | thats what I did |
| 18:35.24 | goozbach | amazon.com prime FTW |
| 18:35.39 | goozbach | should have sprung for saturday delivery, this wait is killing me |
| 18:36.02 | programmerq | sometimes when I get the UPS jitters, I call the local ups place and ask. occasionally they're able to give some good info. |
| 18:37.52 | goozbach | piece of crap! forgot to add my airline ticket to my remursment from last month |
| 18:37.54 | goozbach | grr |
| 18:37.57 | goozbach | nearly $800 |
| 18:40.56 | Tod-Work | man, I'd like to be able to forget about $800 |
| 18:42.32 | goozbach | Tod-Work: sad thing is I cant afford to |
| 18:46.40 | programmerq | goozbach: certainly they can still reimburse you, yes? |
| 18:46.45 | rsimpkins | Oh. Ha. I just remembered I'm flying to San Fransisco next week. I guess I should get stuff for that trip. |
| 18:47.18 | goozbach | programmerq: oh I'm sure |
| 18:47.21 | programmerq | I love going to SF. |
| 18:47.27 | rsimpkins | goozbach: Thanks for the reminder. :) |
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| 18:47.44 | programmerq | I'm tempted to just do a day trip to SF just for the heck of it. |
| 18:48.03 | rsimpkins | VMWorld. Going to be interesting I'm sure. |
| 18:48.24 | programmerq | early flight, work on plane, hang out at docker offices during the day (or a coworking space), grab lunch with some folks, hit a comedy club, fly home late. |
| 18:48.31 | programmerq | most expensive part of being in SF is the hotel. |
| 18:48.40 | rsimpkins | No doubt. |
| 18:49.01 | joshh | hotels are slightly more than the rent |
| 18:49.20 | rsimpkins | I think mine was about $600/night. |
| 18:49.27 | joshh | which one? |
| 18:49.37 | rsimpkins | Some place by the convention center. |
| 18:49.41 | joshh | there are 3 bedroom houses that cost about that to rent =\ |
| 18:49.44 | programmerq | first time I went was about $550/night at the... intercontinental? |
| 18:49.47 | rsimpkins | I stopped caring a long time ago. :( |
| 18:50.07 | programmerq | next was around $400/night. |
| 18:50.30 | programmerq | this last time I had to pay for my own hotel, so I did some research and found one for $80/night. |
| 18:50.32 | rsimpkins | When I went to DC it was cheap enough I stayed an extra night on my dime. |
| 18:50.36 | rsimpkins | I think it was $220/night. |
| 18:51.17 | rsimpkins | $80/night is aweful cheap. What city? |
| 18:52.06 | joshh | there are some hotels here cheaper than that, but very seedy |
| 18:52.14 | programmerq | middle of SF. :) |
| 18:52.22 | programmerq | it was a 100+ year old hotel |
| 18:52.32 | programmerq | it wasn't as murderous as I was bracing for |
| 18:52.39 | programmerq | shared bathroom |
| 18:52.41 | programmerq | no AC |
| 18:52.43 | rsimpkins | Wow, that's like a step above staying at a hostel I bet. |
| 18:52.49 | programmerq | pretty much. |
| 18:52.53 | programmerq | are there any hostels in SF? |
| 18:52.58 | programmerq | googles |
| 18:53.00 | goozbach | first hotel I stayed at in SF was *NASTY* |
| 18:53.05 | joshh | programmerq: could be one of the weekly ones in the tenderloin, next to the sro's where the homeless live |
| 18:53.16 | goozbach | was above a gay bar, and the floor was "crunchy" when I walked in |
| 18:53.25 | rsimpkins | lol |
| 18:53.31 | goozbach | walked right back out and went down the street to the holiday inn |
| 18:53.44 | rsimpkins | Good call. |
| 18:53.45 | goozbach | called the office manager and said, not that hotel |
| 18:53.47 | goozbach | ever! |
| 18:53.48 | programmerq | yeah, a cockroach greeted me in the elevator on the way up. |
| 18:53.57 | joshh | the homeless/bums here live in SRO hotels owned by some nonprofits, near some super cheap weekly hotels with shared bathrooms |
| 18:53.57 | programmerq | he was just chillin. didn't even flee. |
| 18:54.09 | joshh | they cost like 150 a week |
| 18:54.16 | programmerq | yeah, I should totally do a hostel next time. |
| 18:54.56 | rsimpkins | There was a really cool hostel I visited a few times in Hurricane UT. Some of them can be awesome. I think theirs was like $20/night. |
| 18:55.13 | programmerq | I *just* learned what a hostel actually is like 2 days ago |
| 18:55.24 | rsimpkins | The people are what make it. |
| 18:55.40 | rsimpkins | You got to pick one where the people take care of things, and do a good job with it. |
| 18:55.52 | programmerq | I went to my brother-in-law's wedding last week. I was talking to one of his groomsman, and a few years back the two of them bounced around europe for 2 months and just stayed at hostels. |
| 18:56.22 | rsimpkins | It is a sub-culture, IMHO. Once you are 'in' you get details on where the good places are and how to get in. |
| 18:57.39 | programmerq | there are quite a few hostels in SF with lots of reviews. should be fairly easy to find one that is adequate. might be a good idea to take a cheaper computer with me if I do go. |
| 18:58.01 | joshh | programmerq: ping me if you come, and want to get some good lunch/beer |
| 18:58.22 | rsimpkins | I don't love San Fransico that much. Would prefer a cabin in the mountains some place than a big city. |
| 18:58.47 | joshh | both have their place |
| 18:58.52 | rsimpkins | I wonder if Ted Kaczynski's place is for rent. I bet it is cheap. |
| 19:00.10 | joshh | cabins are great for weekends, but have poor internet |
| 19:00.26 | joshh | and you have to cook and clean yourself |
| 19:01.10 | rsimpkins | Yeah, there are some down sides to not hiring slave labor to make things comfortable. |
| 19:05.25 | programmerq | joshh: sounds good. |
| 19:05.57 | programmerq | I have gone to a couple comedy clubs in SF. those are fun. |
| 19:09.09 | jxqz | so I found out today that I am a coauthor on 15 academic papers |
| 19:09.59 | jxqz | once I add that to my linkedin profile I can get 10-20k more on my next salary |
| 19:10.02 | jxqz | oh yeah |
| 19:10.54 | jxqz | http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Justin_Findlay |
| 19:11.12 | jxqz | even better: |
| 19:11.14 | jxqz | http://arxiv.org/find/astro-ph/1/au:+Findlay_J/0/1/0/all/0/1 |
| 19:11.32 | jxqz | not all of those arXiv ones are mine though |
| 19:11.48 | goozbach | puts tother that jxqz == jfindlay |
| 19:11.52 | goozbach | boy |
| 19:11.55 | goozbach | that took a while |
| 19:11.58 | jxqz | girl |
| 19:12.05 | jxqz | yeah, sorry |
| 19:12.24 | jxqz | I thought jxqz was more rad-like |
| 19:12.29 | jxqz | ~nickometer jxqz |
| 19:12.34 | jxqz | yay |
| 19:13.13 | jxqz | it's the least used letters in the latin alphabet in the OED |
| 19:13.22 | jxqz | in order |
| 19:15.14 | rsimpkins | Google search for jxqz -> "About 50,700 results" |
| 19:17.34 | jxqz | yeah, I'm that popular |
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| 19:21.04 | programmerq | jxqz: are you the justin that was my roommate for a semester? |
| 19:21.12 | programmerq | or am I getting justins mixed up |
| 19:21.39 | jxqz | where and when was this room? |
| 19:23.46 | programmerq | brentwood park apartments. early 2007. |
| 19:32.36 | jxqz | srsly? |
| 19:32.46 | jxqz | with Max? |
| 19:32.58 | programmerq | yup. |
| 19:33.04 | jxqz | gentoo guy with dvorak keyboard? |
| 19:33.10 | programmerq | yup. |
| 19:33.13 | jxqz | roxorz |
| 19:33.21 | jxqz | yeah, that's me |
| 19:33.22 | programmerq | well, it was a qwerty keyboard and I moved my keys around. |
| 19:33.30 | jxqz | yeah, I remember |
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| 19:33.38 | jxqz | except for 'F' and 'J' |
| 19:33.42 | programmerq | yup. :) |
| 19:33.58 | jxqz | I've recently moved back to gentoo |
| 19:34.02 | programmerq | I have a realy dvorak keyboard these days. comes in handy for pair programming. |
| 19:34.07 | jxqz | haha |
| 19:34.12 | fugue88 | ~confetti |
| 19:34.16 | programmerq | I dumped it in 2008 or 2009ish. archlinux |
| 19:34.20 | fugue88 | throws confetti |
| 19:34.30 | jxqz | I haven't been able to get into arch |
| 19:34.53 | jxqz | with a quad core proc, compiling everything from source is no longer the chore it used to be |
| 19:35.07 | jxqz | in fact most packages take longer configuring than compiling |
| 19:35.25 | Oberon4278 | Anyone here have experience with data visualization tools? |
| 19:35.31 | programmerq | yeah, I remember setting up distcc and such, and using more than four cores |
| 19:35.33 | jxqz | thankfully many are moving away from the old school autotools way of doing things |
| 19:35.45 | programmerq | and then I spent a solid day doing emerge world where it was 90% configure |
| 19:35.49 | jxqz | Oberon4278: 'big data'? |
| 19:35.59 | Oberon4278 | ugh I hate buzzwords |
| 19:36.05 | jxqz | :) |
| 19:36.10 | Oberon4278 | but in this case no, I'm not dealing with huge amounts of data |
| 19:36.15 | fugue88 | Oberon4278: emacs for visualizing text, gnuplot for visualizing text as data points, gimp for visualizing...something...as pictures... |
| 19:36.16 | jxqz | you want plots? |
| 19:36.23 | Oberon4278 | well |
| 19:36.28 | Oberon4278 | our product generates reports |
| 19:36.30 | Oberon4278 | and logs files |
| 19:36.34 | programmerq | Oberon4278: I've been fairly happy with splunk's graphing capabilities, when I've had access to a splunk license |
| 19:36.46 | Oberon4278 | there are a lot of things I'd like to put into graph and chart form |
| 19:36.51 | jxqz | root.cern.ch for data analysis/plots, but the graphics are ugly |
| 19:36.59 | jxqz | maybe I'm just still a particle physics guy |
| 19:37.26 | Oberon4278 | so I can see things like, for example, "How often, on average, are journal files rolled over?" and "Was there an increase in X during the problem period?" |
| 19:37.27 | jxqz | or matplotlib |
| 19:37.47 | Oberon4278 | but right now it's just a huge mess of text |
| 19:38.11 | jxqz | Oberon4278: there's very likely not going to be an easy answer to something like that; with data you have to know what you're looking for before you start scripting stuff |
| 19:38.15 | Oberon4278 | someone I work with has an Excel spreadsheet that will import the logs, reports, etc. and give you some charts, but... that's Excel |
| 19:38.24 | jxqz | ugh |
| 19:38.27 | Oberon4278 | right |
| 19:38.33 | jxqz | use matplotlib |
| 19:38.37 | jxqz | or gnuplot |
| 19:38.38 | Oberon4278 | Well, I generally know what kind of questions I want to answer. |
| 19:38.57 | Oberon4278 | In particular I will almost always want to take different reports and get their data to correspond in time. |
| 19:39.05 | Oberon4278 | For example, show me all the events that happened around this particular time. |
| 19:39.28 | Oberon4278 | I'll check those out, thanks. |
| 19:40.19 | fugue88 | Oberon4278: So, less of displaying, and more of exploring interactively? |
| 19:41.36 | Oberon4278 | yeah |
| 19:41.46 | tvc123 | Oberon4278: take a look at graphite ... easy to just shove data at and have users create graphs with it |
| 19:42.06 | Oberon4278 | I've used data visualization tools in the past that are very good at letting you create and manipulate various graphs |
| 19:42.11 | Oberon4278 | but I don't remember what their names are |
| 19:42.45 | Oberon4278 | oh. I should have just googled "data visualization." I can't believe I didn't think of that. |
| 19:43.04 | jxqz | getting some good data? |
| 19:44.37 | rsimpkins | Oberon4278: A bazillion people like this tool - http://www.tableausoftware.com/ |
| 19:44.44 | Oberon4278 | yeah |
| 19:45.37 | Oberon4278 | that would be the one we used in my class! |
| 19:45.42 | Oberon4278 | The class that I took |
| 19:45.44 | Oberon4278 | at Harvard |
| 19:45.46 | Oberon4278 | on data visualization |
| 19:45.53 | Oberon4278 | gives himself a sarcastic thumbs up. |
| 19:46.15 | Oberon4278 | It's more about learning the principles anyway, right? Right? |
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| 19:47.00 | rsimpkins | If you have someone that can pay $10k for it, then use it. :) |
| 19:53.02 | Oberon4278 | We got a free copy for class. |
| 19:53.08 | Oberon4278 | I think the license has expired now, though. |
| 19:55.57 | Oberon4278 | My company actually provides an analytics and visualization product, but it's built on top of our database and requires you to create objects for everything you want to represent, which incurs a huge overhead in terms of putting together any actual reports. |
| 19:56.30 | Oberon4278 | If you're already one of our customers and your data is already in objects in one of our databases, that's fine, but it doesn't make it easy for people to bring in data from outside. |
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| 21:23.11 | pashdown | does anyone have an email for whoever was taking pictures at openwest? i'd like to get higher quality copies of the photos he took of me. |
| 21:27.05 | jxqz | ask youtah |
| 21:27.09 | jxqz | the picture man |
| 21:27.14 | youtah | I didn't do it |
| 21:27.18 | youtah | you have no proof! |
| 21:27.29 | youtah | wait what? |
| 21:27.30 | jxqz | youtah has teh hi rez |
| 21:28.01 | youtah | pashdown, sent you my email via PM |
| 21:28.06 | joshh | openwest had the paparazzi following pashdown? |
| 21:28.25 | youtah | they paid the paparazzi in free Pizza and t-shirts |
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| 22:37.47 | harleypig | wth?! I'm trying to install perlbrew on a vm using wget (because curl is silently dying). wget returns "cannot verify raw.githubusercontent.comâs certificate, issued by â/C=Unknown/O=ut1-cl00004.vwh.net/OU=ut1-cl00004.vwh.net/CN=Cloudstack Userâ ... dafuq? Why is wget trying to validate another site with an internal self-signed cert?! |
| 22:43.09 | jxqz | --no-check-certificate |
| 22:44.21 | harleypig | That's *with* --no-check-certificate |
| 22:44.58 | fungus | harleypig, sounds like an SSL proxy. |
| 22:45.28 | harleypig | http://pastebin.com/Sn99hFZf |
| 22:46.07 | harleypig | fungus: feh ... is there a way I can tell? |
| 22:46.29 | harleypig | This is a cloud instance ... but I'm not aware of one on the dev cloud. |
| 22:46.31 | fungus | see if you get that same cert on another SSL request. |
| 22:47.02 | fungus | wget https://google.com/ |
| 22:48.10 | fungus | harleypig, your problem isn't the SSL though. It's a "400 Bad Request" problem. The SSL is just a warning, in which your no check certificate option made non-fatal. |
| 22:49.20 | Sargun | uh |
| 22:49.34 | Sargun | openssl s_client -host raw.githubusercontent.com -port 443 |
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| 22:52.06 | harleypig | fungus: but where is the bad request from? |
| 22:52.23 | harleypig | Sargun: pastebin'ing that, just a sec |
| 22:52.37 | fungus | Could be your proxy, could be the dest server... |
| 22:53.18 | harleypig | I haven't setup a proxy ... also, wget https://google.com does not show the same error. |
| 22:53.28 | Sargun | harleypig: use github gists |
| 22:53.43 | Sargun | gist.github.com |
| 22:55.23 | fungus | If you don't have a proxy set, your network admins might have a transparent proxy in place. Or... you might be victim to some MITM attack? |
| 22:55.46 | harleypig | https://gist.github.com/harleypig/53e0fa33df12ac88aaab |
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| 22:57.22 | harleypig | fungus: more likely the transparent proxy ... although it's possible mitm could be happening ... but this is the fifth vm, with new ips each time. |
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| 23:04.58 | jxqz | only 5 VMs? |
| 23:05.09 | jxqz | I bet I could spin up more VMs than anyone else |
| 23:05.17 | Sargun | Yeah |
| 23:05.29 | jxqz | I gotz moar vms than u |
| 23:05.35 | Sargun | IT appears to be that the there is some MITM going on |
| 23:05.37 | jxqz | or something like that |
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| 23:13.30 | bmurdock | in case anyone was wondering, accessing your msexchange calendar using anything besides outlook running on windows is teh suX0rz |
| 23:14.54 | jlp_znc | bmurdock: I could have told you that |
| 23:15.08 | jlp_znc | in fact, I think I did tell you that |
| 23:16.04 | jlp_znc | davmail makes a valiant attempt at providing a caldav interface to it, and you can get a caldav plugin for android and one for thunderbird's calender addon, but it still kind of sucks |
| 23:16.37 | jlp_znc | of course, davmail has to go through the webmail interface, which adds it's own ration of problems |
| 23:16.50 | jlp_znc | sorry, OWA interface (outlook web access) |
| 23:18.25 | harleypig | jxqz: yep, only 5 :] |
| 23:22.29 | jxqz | radical ftw |
| 23:22.45 | jxqz | radicale |
| 23:25.43 | bmurdock | jlp_znc, yes, you are absolutely right. I'm fighting Mac's mail.app and davmail/caldav/android |
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| 23:25.51 | bmurdock | both have their own unique issues |
| 23:26.06 | bmurdock | davmail did save the day for email access |
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| 23:30.08 | jxqz | gnus ftw! |
| 23:30.12 | jxqz | :-) |
| 23:30.58 | jxqz | I'm sure emacs is big and ambiguous enough to make it so you don't need any middleware like dav et al |
| 23:31.07 | jxqz | or just simulate the universe for you |
| 23:32.55 | jlp_znc | M-x load-library exchange-server.el ... or something like that |
| 23:34.03 | jlp_znc | control-meta-cokebottle-q |
| 23:34.07 | bmurdock | that would be awesome...wait a minute... |
| 23:34.14 | bmurdock | M-x el-get-list-packages.... |
| 23:34.26 | bmurdock | dang, nothing for exchange |
| 23:34.34 | jlp_znc | wobbly train this afternoon |
| 23:34.40 | jlp_znc | shakes back and forth |
| 23:34.44 | bmurdock | lol |
| 23:34.54 | jlp_znc | I'm headed up to SF to go to an SRE open house at twitter |
| 23:34.59 | bmurdock | does that make it harder or easier to nap? |
| 23:35.08 | jlp_znc | harder |
| 23:35.12 | bmurdock | bummer |
| 23:35.42 | jlp_znc | just passing through san mateo... I should wave to the fusion-io dudes |
| 23:35.45 | jlp_znc | I mean san disk |
| 23:35.53 | jlp_znc | if I knew where the office was |
| 23:36.30 | bmurdock | the FIO office is near the big new football stadium |
| 23:36.50 | jlp_znc | so, if I knew where *that* was, then I might know :-) |
| 23:36.58 | bmurdock | right :-) |
| 23:37.00 | jlp_znc | levi stadium? |
| 23:37.06 | jlp_znc | named after our very own levi! |
| 23:37.15 | jlp_znc | I hope |
| 23:37.44 | bmurdock | I had to google that, but yes, Levi's Stadium |
| 23:38.06 | bmurdock | *bmurdock is not that big of a football fan |
| 23:38.12 | jlp_znc | yeah, me neither |
| 23:38.40 | jlp_znc | the SAP center is about two blocks from where I live here... that's where the sharks play (san jose hockey team) |
| 23:39.12 | jlp_znc | and they're building a big new stadium over near the airport for soccer, I think |
| 23:39.19 | jlp_znc | big money in sports |
| 23:39.38 | jlp_znc | "big money, big prizes, I love it!" eh? dremex_work? |
| 23:42.45 | jlp_znc | linkedin stock almost made it to $220/share last week. looks like it's down a bit today ($216+) |
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