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| 01:32.19 | jima | TodPunk: it's even more obvious if you've read http://blog.level3.com/global-connectivity/verizons-accidental-mea-culpa/ |
| 01:32.35 | jima | fadein: ^ |
| 01:32.52 | jima | (obvious as a possibility, anyway) |
| 01:40.01 | TodPunk | jima: indeed, which just adds hilarity to the idea that the internet at large is still discussing the issue. Like Net Neutrality in general, the data is fairly indisputable and yet we're still almost pointless in our awareness or action on the whole. |
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| 03:23.02 | jxqz | fadein: try pipelight |
| 03:23.09 | jxqz | for netflix |
| 03:25.11 | jxqz | https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140722/17020827973/verizon-gets-snarky-basically-admits-that-its-one-clogging-its-networks-purpose.shtml |
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| 16:10.17 | jxqz | ~napoleon eightyeight |
| 16:10.18 | infobot | ACTION makes eightyeight buy a lotto ticket for Napoleon |
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| 17:46.36 | fadein | jima: thx for the link. Interesting reading |
| 17:48.22 | eightyeight | ~nacho jxqz |
| 17:50.09 | levi | I got pipelight to work with Netflix at some point. But I just use my Chromecast for Netflix. |
| 17:51.22 | jxqz | it's becoming increasingly difficult to stay away from proprietary software |
| 17:53.30 | TodPunk | isn't much of a tv/movie consumer, so he's unaware of how hard any of this may or may not be for him |
| 17:53.47 | eightyeight | i have a netflix enabled tv. works. |
| 17:54.03 | eightyeight | but i don't find it that difficult to stay away from proprietary software |
| 17:55.25 | goozbach | need me a new android phone |
| 17:55.32 | goozbach | looking at the htc one (m8) |
| 17:55.38 | goozbach | any suggestions other than that? |
| 17:55.41 | goozbach | or that if you like it |
| 17:56.38 | eightyeight | the htc one doesn't come with a removable battery |
| 17:56.56 | eightyeight | no external microsd card slot either |
| 17:57.53 | eightyeight | but, the capacitive touch home, menu and back buttons are ++ imo |
| 17:58.18 | eightyeight | the software buttons take up screen real estate, and the physical button on the samsung galaxy series is annoying |
| 17:58.28 | jlp_znc | goozbach: I have the nexus 5 and love it, but it also doesn't have a removable battery or sdcard |
| 17:58.33 | eightyeight | with that said, i'd still get the nexus 5 over the htc one |
| 17:58.52 | eightyeight | or, if you wan the removable battery and microsd slot, the galaxy s5 |
| 17:59.20 | eightyeight | *want |
| 17:59.22 | TodPunk | goozbach: just get a Nexus 5. Seriously. This isn't even much of a debate, there's no reason NOT to get the most powerful and stable and supported android phone |
| 18:00.08 | eightyeight | the s5 is more hardware capable than the nexus 5 |
| 18:00.31 | eightyeight | both have strong 3rd party rom support though |
| 18:01.22 | TodPunk | yes yes, but at the end of the day, they're both just phones. If you are worried about 1.2Ghz vs 1.4Ghz or whatever stats are these days, just get an ultrabook for that |
| 18:02.01 | eightyeight | http://versus.com/en/samsung-galaxy-s5-vs-google-nexus-5 |
| 18:02.32 | eightyeight | if only the galaxy home button was capacitive |
| 18:04.33 | TodPunk | thinks he'll still be on his nexus 4 for about 3 more years |
| 18:04.54 | eightyeight | heh. i'm still on the s3, and don't see getting a new phone any time soon |
| 18:05.59 | eightyeight | although, i wouldn't mind owning the one+ |
| 18:08.04 | goozbach | one of my criteria is the fact I would like to put a third-party rom on it |
| 18:09.50 | TodPunk | refuses to acknowledge that as if it matters |
| 18:10.32 | levi | eightyeight: I hate the S3 with a passion. Probably because I only use it occasionally, so I never get used to its weird UI quirks. |
| 18:10.53 | levi | We've got a couple of them for a work project. |
| 18:12.16 | eightyeight | yeah. the stock samsung ui indeed has some odd quirks about it |
| 18:12.43 | eightyeight | thankfully, the d2lte CM 11 milestone roms has all those quirks removed, minus 1 |
| 18:12.43 | goozbach | eightyeight: why a cappasitive home button? |
| 18:12.51 | goozbach | what's wrong with physical? |
| 18:13.03 | eightyeight | i just don't care for them |
| 18:13.19 | eightyeight | it's something else that can mechanically break |
| 18:13.53 | eightyeight | some like them. obviously. the iphone is popular |
| 18:14.02 | eightyeight | just not my style |
| 18:14.03 | levi | I *hate* the way the capacitive buttons on the S3 work. They are completely invisible until you press one; I therefore tend to press the *wrong* one, as I don't use it enough to train myself. |
| 18:14.12 | goozbach | nexus is considerably cheaper |
| 18:14.22 | goozbach | hmm |
| 18:14.39 | eightyeight | the s3 buttons were different than what i was used to on my evo 4g |
| 18:14.46 | eightyeight | but it took all of a couple hours to get used to it |
| 18:15.12 | eightyeight | i like that they're hidden unless touched also |
| 18:15.19 | eightyeight | removes visual noise from the front of the phone |
| 18:15.35 | TodPunk | goozbach: cheaper, allows you to tether without a rom hack, etc |
| 18:15.39 | levi | Nobody on my team, and all of us have different taste in phones, like the S3 *at all*. |
| 18:15.45 | eightyeight | heh |
| 18:16.29 | eightyeight | i like the phone. other than the physical home button, i really don't have any gripes with it running CM |
| 18:16.32 | levi | One guy has a Nexus, another has the latest HTC, I've got an earlier HTC, and the final guy has a Windows phone. We are all united in *hating* the S3. |
| 18:16.41 | TodPunk | needs to switch to XFCE on his Fedora VM |
| 18:16.50 | eightyeight | sounds like some rich emotions at that office |
| 18:17.11 | levi | We would probably all hate it less if it ran CM, but I'm pretty sure we all hate the hidden-by-default capacitive buttons. |
| 18:17.30 | eightyeight | the one+ one has all capacitive touch buttons, although they are visible by default |
| 18:18.10 | levi | If I'd made the mistake of buying one, I'd probably convince myself that I liked them too, but they're clearly a bad UX idea. |
| 18:18.23 | eightyeight | i disagree |
| 18:18.31 | eightyeight | it's 2 buttons- menu and back |
| 18:18.37 | eightyeight | it can't be that hard to learn where they are |
| 18:18.58 | levi | When it's your only phone and you use those all the time, maybe. |
| 18:19.27 | levi | But still, the fact that they are *off* when you want to use them is obviously bad UX. It's one you can get over with enough use, but objectively bad nonetheless. |
| 18:19.40 | eightyeight | shrug |
| 18:20.12 | levi | Hey, you aren't objectively bad for *liking* it. We've all got our quirky preferences. ;) |
| 18:21.07 | eightyeight | they always power on when touching anywhere on the screen, even if no action is taken on the touch |
| 18:21.34 | eightyeight | heads to lunch |
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| 18:22.06 | jxqz | pipelight isn't very hard at all |
| 18:22.26 | goozbach | galaxy s5 is directly sold by my provider so that might be another nail |
| 18:23.08 | jxqz | eightyeight: does that mean you don't run a proprietary OS on your phone? |
| 18:23.32 | TodPunk | jxqz: he runs Cyanogen Mod |
| 18:23.46 | jxqz | should check that out |
| 18:24.11 | jxqz | TodPunk: oh, wait, doesn't that just mean that you rooted your android phone? |
| 18:24.40 | TodPunk | jxqz: I'm pretty sure this is a huge part of his "get off of all Google services" thing too |
| 18:24.45 | TodPunk | more so than rooting |
| 18:24.50 | jxqz | ok, so I am wrong :) |
| 18:24.54 | jxqz | thankfully |
| 18:24.56 | TodPunk | it takes out the gmail app and stuff |
| 18:25.23 | TodPunk | I have never had a need to root my own phone, so I don't know what that's useful for beyond tethering |
| 18:25.26 | romanovic | anyone able to get pipelight running on debian? I've tried on 3 or 4 different occasions. I always think, "it's been a few months, i can probably get it working this time" |
| 18:25.49 | romanovic | and I invariably end up in package version hell, every time |
| 18:25.51 | jxqz | romanovic: what problems are you having? |
| 18:25.55 | eightyeight | jxqz: correct. there is only one piece of proprietary software on my phone, and that's the gospel library, by the lds church |
| 18:26.02 | jxqz | heh |
| 18:26.07 | eightyeight | everything else comes from the f-droid app repo |
| 18:26.26 | eightyeight | no google play. no google apps. nothing. |
| 18:26.34 | jxqz | romanovic: are you running 'debian' or 'ubuntu'? |
| 18:26.39 | romanovic | debian wheezy |
| 18:27.03 | jxqz | eightyeight: but the UI is still a heavy crap pile of java? |
| 18:27.03 | eightyeight | i do miss a turn-by-turn navigation app |
| 18:27.18 | eightyeight | jxqz: it's java, but i don't see the problem with that |
| 18:27.27 | jxqz | rolls his eyes |
| 18:27.35 | eightyeight | the phone is more responsive than when it was running samsung motoblur, or whatever it is |
| 18:27.38 | eightyeight | and zero bloatware |
| 18:27.44 | jxqz | but, java |
| 18:27.47 | eightyeight | so? |
| 18:27.50 | jxqz | java is the epitome of bloatware |
| 18:27.57 | TodPunk | no |
| 18:28.04 | jxqz | yes |
| 18:28.14 | TodPunk | java developers are commonly associated with that because enterprise |
| 18:28.20 | jxqz | but, whatever |
| 18:28.21 | TodPunk | java itself is not bloated |
| 18:28.26 | jxqz | I don't really care that much |
| 18:28.35 | eightyeight | and the jvm is really quite snappy. |
| 18:28.38 | TodPunk | now |
| 18:28.40 | eightyeight | art > dalvik also |
| 18:28.42 | jxqz | java is the most stark irony |
| 18:28.59 | eightyeight | i don't have any issues with a jvm phone |
| 18:29.03 | eightyeight | to each their own though |
| 18:29.11 | TodPunk | I really, really have struggled with Java over the years (I started in 1.2) and I have criticisms, but bloated is not one of them |
| 18:29.22 | jxqz | eightyeight: you run arbitrary android apps? |
| 18:29.36 | eightyeight | jxqz: define 'arbitrary'? |
| 18:29.52 | jxqz | TodPunk: perhaps m bloat experience with android is mischaracterized |
| 18:30.07 | levi | java/dalvik on Android is not terrible. It's got advantages and disadvantages. It's not like the old awt days. |
| 18:30.16 | jxqz | for example, why is appX >30 MiB? |
| 18:30.24 | eightyeight | 30MB? |
| 18:30.28 | jxqz | when all it does is order pizza for you? |
| 18:30.34 | TodPunk | android apps can be bloated too, because again, developers are retarded, and the docs are designed to enable average devs to do things without shooting themselves in the face repeatedly |
| 18:30.50 | eightyeight | the only "big" apps i can think of are firefox, and maxima |
| 18:31.19 | jxqz | I guess I'm thinking of gmail and facebook |
| 18:31.34 | jxqz | both lumbering around several dozen MiB each |
| 18:31.35 | TodPunk | gmail is quite large |
| 18:31.49 | jxqz | and both slowing down the hellophone in annoying ways |
| 18:31.53 | TodPunk | those, as I understand it, are mostly because of all the services and integrations |
| 18:31.58 | eightyeight | i think k-9 mail is ~3 MB |
| 18:32.05 | eightyeight | that's probably the next largest app i have installed |
| 18:32.07 | TodPunk | facebook has its own terrible badness problems |
| 18:32.28 | levi | Android facebook is way better than it used to be, but still pretty bad. |
| 18:32.36 | TodPunk | yes |
| 18:32.50 | TodPunk | Chrome is 101MB |
| 18:33.21 | jxqz | you've convinnced me to reconsider my phonejava opinions then |
| 18:33.39 | jxqz | (my daughter used to say 'hellophone') |
| 18:33.54 | levi | Android is pretty usable in recent incarnations on recent hardware. |
| 18:33.57 | TodPunk | oh, no. It's 63MB, I just have a bunch of data there |
| 18:34.09 | levi | It used to be abjectly terrible. |
| 18:34.45 | TodPunk | jxqz: it has other hells to consider, mind you |
| 18:34.58 | TodPunk | android and java in general |
| 18:35.07 | TodPunk | but every tech has its drawbacks, I find |
| 18:35.16 | jxqz | yes |
| 18:35.18 | levi | Android is still highly customized by various vendors, though. Samsung has *terrible* taste in its customizations, but tends to put all the latest hardware features in. |
| 18:35.50 | levi | Half of them will be gone in a generation or two, but if you want to play with the latest "new thing" in hardware features, Samsung is where it's at. |
| 18:36.20 | TodPunk | would rather read a blog about them and be done with it |
| 18:37.02 | TodPunk | To each their own and all that, I just don't have the time to devote to gadgets anymore |
| 18:37.09 | levi | Amen to that. |
| 18:37.20 | TodPunk | apologizes to his Netduino, unloved, on his desk |
| 18:38.01 | Q_Continuum | I stick to servers and their fun, my phone is something I don't muck with much. |
| 18:38.10 | TodPunk | good man |
| 18:38.34 | levi | I'm still pretty pleased with my old HTC One S. Default ROM, just a few apps. |
| 18:39.08 | jxqz | the CyanogenMod website seems to imply that I have to have windows 7/8 in order to install/use CyanogenMod |
| 18:39.32 | levi | jxqz: Not unless it's changed recently. |
| 18:39.54 | jxqz | http://beta.download.cyanogenmod.org/install |
| 18:40.25 | TodPunk | levi: it could be the toolchain for his specific device, maybe |
| 18:40.31 | TodPunk | though I doubt it |
| 18:40.53 | jxqz | TodPunk: all I did was http://www.cyanogenmod.org/ and then click 'Get Started' |
| 18:41.28 | TodPunk | jxqz: ah, yes, that's for "the masses" |
| 18:41.51 | jxqz | it seems to imply that you need some desktop application |
| 18:41.56 | TodPunk | basically, if you want to do this the easy way, they have windows tools for that |
| 18:42.28 | TodPunk | if you know what you're doing with your device and serial ports and all that jazz, you have lots more options, some of which are dangerous |
| 18:42.50 | TodPunk | this is, of course, all just to run CM, which I have only ever done on my HP TouchPad |
| 18:42.51 | levi | jxqz: No; it implies that they've got a window tool for it as well as several ways to do it directly on your Android device. And that there's a link for "advanced users" who want to do it another way. |
| 18:43.33 | TodPunk | Direct links for files to use with your favorite toolchain on your device: http://download.cyanogenmod.org/ |
| 18:43.44 | levi | Honestly, I see no reason to run CM unless your factory ROM has some horrible problem. |
| 18:43.53 | TodPunk | levi++ |
| 18:44.00 | jxqz | it doesn't work on moto X anyway |
| 18:44.24 | jxqz | I just want to get away from android |
| 18:44.31 | levi | CM *is* android. |
| 18:44.43 | levi | It's pretty much plain vanilla open-source android. |
| 18:44.44 | TodPunk | it's just not stock android |
| 18:45.05 | jxqz | I guess what I mean is I want to get out of google's proprietary garden |
| 18:45.07 | TodPunk | wonders how much love WebOS gets these days |
| 18:45.19 | levi | TodPunk: Almost none, I'd bet? |
| 18:45.35 | jxqz | but you're happy there for some reason |
| 18:45.36 | TodPunk | jxqz: you're on a moto X, you're stuck in a lot of gardens there |
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| 18:46.00 | jxqz | TodPunk: that's how I get unlimited service for $25/month |
| 18:46.02 | TodPunk | jxqz: if you want a truly open phone, get a Mozilla phone |
| 18:46.26 | TodPunk | well, there are always trade-offs =c) |
| 18:46.29 | levi | jxqz: The main difference between Android with google services and Android w/o google services is that the latter sucks more. |
| 18:46.33 | jxqz | yeah |
| 18:47.02 | TodPunk | It does take a LOT of the usefulness out of the phone and put a lot of work on your shoulders |
| 18:47.20 | levi | There's probably more privacy, but you also lose a bunch of integration stuff. |
| 18:47.24 | TodPunk | I just philosophically don't care enough |
| 18:47.40 | TodPunk | The NSA gets it all anyway |
| 18:50.21 | levi | I really just want a phone that can occasionally send email and browse the web, and maybe have a couple of special-purpose apps. Walled gardens and heavy-handed curation are my friends. :P |
| 18:51.08 | levi | Perhaps my next phone will be a Windows phone. |
| 18:51.14 | TodPunk | In unrelated topics: I'm finding my vim to be limiting in my dev work. I'm basically moving to JetBrains products with IDEA-Vim plugin and enjoying the integrated tools all-in-one-interface. |
| 18:51.35 | programmerq | yeah, I'm another vim user that has become a jetbrains fan. |
| 18:51.47 | programmerq | I find myself toggling the vim plugin here and there |
| 18:51.52 | TodPunk | levi: they're awesome. I want one. Not enough to switch and stuff, but when I need a new phone, it will be on my list of options |
| 18:51.54 | programmerq | and if I want vim, I just use vim |
| 18:52.11 | TodPunk | programmerq: yeah, I am finding I like vim as an editor, but it lacks considerably as an IDE |
| 18:52.16 | TodPunk | (because it's not) |
| 18:52.30 | levi | TodPunk: yeah, one of my coworkers uses one and really likes it. I have a friend on the Windows phone OS dev team, too. |
| 18:52.33 | programmerq | there are plenty of things that can be done to give it some IDE-like features. |
| 18:52.50 | programmerq | I remembering writing school assignments in C++ in vim, and the ctags integration helped a *ton* |
| 18:52.57 | TodPunk | sure, but they're hacks and usually tied to a specific workflow |
| 18:53.08 | programmerq | indeed |
| 18:53.15 | TodPunk | just wants Visual Studio for all the things =cP |
| 18:53.27 | programmerq | for c++ :make and ctags was great |
| 18:53.39 | programmerq | I was never happy with the autocomplete plugins I played with |
| 18:53.52 | TodPunk | granted, VS sucked for things like embedded dev, even in C |
| 18:54.12 | TodPunk | but I haven't found a good integrated toolset for embedded anything |
| 18:54.24 | programmerq | I don't use windows-- I'm not sure what IDE options there are for c/c++ on linux/mac |
| 18:54.25 | TodPunk | is somewhat glad he doesn't need one anymore at the moment |
| 18:54.30 | programmerq | xcode maybe? |
| 18:54.47 | TodPunk | friends don't let friends use xcode (unless they're deploying to the apple store) |
| 18:54.49 | programmerq | I've googled around a bit, but not very recently |
| 18:54.52 | levi | TodPunk: All the embedded vendors apparently do custom eclipse-based IDEs now. |
| 18:54.59 | TodPunk | but yeah, jetbrains |
| 18:55.02 | TodPunk | mmmmm, jetbrains |
| 18:55.34 | TodPunk | levi: yeah, I've seen a lot of that from some of the newer toolsets. Our Pic18s had an option for that. |
| 18:55.52 | levi | I have never got comfortable enough with any embedded development IDE to get anything out of them over command line tools. |
| 18:56.08 | programmerq | yeah, it looks like there is *something* for jetbrains and c/c++ |
| 18:56.11 | levi | TodPunk: Our poor DSP programmers are stuck with some truly horrid GUI/IDE tools. |
| 18:56.12 | programmerq | dunno how good it is. |
| 18:56.21 | TodPunk | really an integrated debugger and profiler are HUGE benefits in dev, but I'm not sure how useful they'd be in embedded |
| 18:56.42 | TodPunk | programmerq: as good as anything for c/c++ =cP |
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| 18:57.18 | levi | I like GUI debuggers, but I still don't see the need for them to be integrated with my editor and build system. |
| 18:57.24 | levi | I also like GUI profilers. |
| 18:57.32 | programmerq | http://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/1373?pr=idea - looks like this would do the trick |
| 18:57.37 | programmerq | I have a rubymine and a phpstorm license |
| 18:57.48 | programmerq | so I could probably get that working in either one from the looks of things. |
| 18:58.13 | levi | I'm not fundamentally opposed to IDEs, but I really don't like IDE-controlled builds. |
| 18:58.13 | TodPunk | levi: being able to set breakpoints and whatnot in your editor is nice, as is interactive debugging where you can look at specific variable values as you step over code and whatnot |
| 18:58.38 | TodPunk | The best IDEs are just integrated frontends to the CLI tools you already use and understand |
| 18:59.10 | programmerq | yeah, rubymine integrates really well with rspec, rake, thor, and any number of other ruby tools I use. |
| 18:59.43 | programmerq | the little php dev I've done so far with phpstorm seems to be the same story, although the composer integration could be a bit bitter. |
| 18:59.45 | programmerq | bettR* |
| 18:59.49 | programmerq | oh my goodness |
| 18:59.50 | programmerq | better* |
| 19:00.36 | TodPunk | that reminds me, I HATE all the ridiculous specialized packaging and environment framework crap everything has these days |
| 19:00.54 | TodPunk | why am I using NPM to download all these things for PHP and/or ruby and/or python? |
| 19:01.01 | TodPunk | where the hell did composer come from? |
| 19:01.15 | TodPunk | was wget and tarballs not good enough? |
| 19:01.32 | TodPunk | </minirant> |
| 19:03.20 | TodPunk | lunches |
| 19:04.40 | programmerq | TodPunk: they're not good enough if you want repeatability/reliability on the nth deploy, and to have guaranteed consistent environments from dev through production |
| 19:04.42 | programmerq | :) |
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| 19:08.58 | levi | programmerq: Um, tarballs guarantee all that, so long as *you* create the tarballs from the environment you need to replicate. |
| 19:11.13 | levi | The problem itself is born from projects consisting of tons of open source packages with randomly varying update schedules, release patterns, and interdependencies. |
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| 19:18.15 | jxqz | let's just all use proprietary software, that way everything works and you don't have to think about it |
| 19:20.13 | Q_Continuum | and we just pay the vendor to update it? |
| 19:20.56 | jxqz | Q_Continuum: welcome to Enterprise Software! |
| 19:21.02 | jxqz | it's so easy :) |
| 19:24.08 | Q_Continuum | Then you have to read 18 documents all 350 pages long to make sure you're in a good state configuration wise for them to do the upgrade. |
| 19:24.39 | Q_Continuum | Aside from that, I like our 3PAR. |
| 19:30.13 | jxqz | everything's better if it's Enterprise |
| 19:36.09 | levi | Hey, I didn't say enterprise software was the answer. But selling a software library forces you to at least pay attention to making stable supported releases rather than just throwing your dev branch out there. |
| 19:36.15 | eightyeight | jxqz: installing CM, or any 3rd party rom for that matter, isn't difficult |
| 19:36.24 | eightyeight | jxqz: esp. for someone like you |
| 19:37.16 | levi | And then you can say, "Yay, I did it! Now my phone does less than it did before." |
| 19:37.40 | eightyeight | i personally don't care for the bloatware and limited restrictions stock roms put on the hardware |
| 19:38.04 | eightyeight | having the bloatware off the phone is enough to install a 3rd party rom |
| 19:38.11 | jxqz | eightyeight: yeah, but Moto X isn't listed on http://wiki.cyanogenmod.org/w/CyanogenMod_Installer#Supported_Devices :( |
| 19:38.13 | eightyeight | some even are "stock roms without bloatware" |
| 19:38.25 | eightyeight | jxqz: there are more roms other than CM |
| 19:38.37 | levi | I don't care for the fact that non-stock roms tend to have random bits of functionality broken. |
| 19:38.52 | eightyeight | i haven't experienced that for a few years |
| 19:39.03 | jxqz | I just want to get away from google |
| 19:39.24 | eightyeight | i've put 3 different roms on my S3, and everything works out of the box |
| 19:39.58 | jxqz | maybe ting has better alternate phone support than republic wireless |
| 19:40.00 | levi | eightyeight: That works fine if you have one of the 3 models of phone that everyone happens to be concentrating on at the moment. |
| 19:40.10 | jxqz | but republic wireless is a better deal |
| 19:40.23 | eightyeight | well, sure |
| 19:40.37 | eightyeight | get unpopular hardware, and expect lack-luster support |
| 19:40.58 | eightyeight | so, it would seem that if you want to rom your phone, you should probably get popular hardware |
| 19:41.09 | levi | Doesn't have to be unpopular hardware in general, just unpopular among people who can do real mod work. |
| 19:41.30 | eightyeight | jxqz: http://forum.xda-developers.com/moto-x might help |
| 19:41.45 | eightyeight | xda is unually the goto for 3rd party rom support |
| 19:42.07 | levi | xda-developers is a cesspool. |
| 19:42.15 | eightyeight | that's true |
| 19:42.18 | eightyeight | it's a mess |
| 19:42.26 | levi | The whole android mod scene is a cesspool. |
| 19:42.43 | eightyeight | indeed |
| 19:43.21 | eightyeight | then again, so is the gnu/linux scene |
| 19:43.36 | levi | Yup. |
| 19:43.38 | jxqz | haha |
| 19:43.59 | jxqz | no, it's a 'bazaar' |
| 19:44.07 | eightyeight | heh |
| 19:44.15 | jxqz | gah, weechat doesn't have my favorite irssi aspell plugin |
| 19:44.26 | jxqz | automagically loaded and stuff |
| 19:44.46 | jxqz | the whole bash scene is a cesspool |
| 19:44.55 | jxqz | itch-based design |
| 19:45.11 | eightyeight | shells just suck in general |
| 19:45.22 | levi | The way that Linux is a cesspool is a bit different from the way the android mod scene is a cesspool, though. |
| 19:45.22 | jxqz | ad-hoc amalgamation of self-defunctionalizing code |
| 19:45.37 | jxqz | s/de/contra/ |
| 19:46.39 | levi | There's not much of a point to android mods, while people use Linux and at least part of the stuff surrounding it for real work. |
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| 19:49.52 | eightyeight | well, most of the roms are in 2 camps: to remove {bloat,bad}ware from the phone, and target specific hardware larger rom communities aren't |
| 19:50.17 | eightyeight | unfortunately, most of it is a standard compile of AOSP with different fonts and a different wallpaper |
| 19:50.38 | eightyeight | and if it comes from xda, there's little chance you'll see an update |
| 19:51.03 | eightyeight | some guy scratches an itch, releases, and never touches it again |
| 19:51.52 | jxqz | I was promised 10 years ago that soon I'd have a linux-based phone, something I could use in the same way I use my computer |
| 19:52.09 | jxqz | this promise has been ironically broken |
| 19:52.17 | jxqz | but I still want my GNU/Linux phone |
| 19:52.54 | eightyeight | in that case, i'd recommend the openmoko freerunner |
| 19:52.57 | eightyeight | if it's still developed |
| 19:53.00 | eightyeight | heh |
| 19:53.07 | jxqz | :( |
| 19:53.18 | eightyeight | if you want the 'gnu' in 'gnu/linux' that is |
| 19:54.23 | eightyeight | really though, a 3rd party rom, with no google apps, isn't difficult, provided you can make sacrifices |
| 19:54.35 | eightyeight | such as not having a navigation app, friendface, etc |
| 19:55.47 | fugue88 | OsmAnd~ is open source and pretty good for mapping. It gets some funky routes every once in a while though. |
| 19:56.34 | fugue88 | It even does door-to-door routing, where it will sort your waypoints into an efficient route. |
| 19:56.38 | eightyeight | hmm. not familiar with it |
| 19:56.41 | eightyeight | checks it out |
| 19:56.49 | fugue88 | eightyeight: Listed in f-droid. |
| 19:57.13 | eightyeight | yeah. i see it. |
| 19:57.16 | fugue88 | ~eightyeight++ |
| 19:57.19 | fugue88 | for no google play |
| 19:57.26 | fugue88 | :) |
| 19:57.47 | eightyeight | if the lds tools app was available like the wiki claims, i would have that installed also |
| 19:57.58 | jxqz | ~eightyeight++ |
| 19:58.01 | jxqz | for friendface |
| 19:58.08 | eightyeight | https://tech.lds.org/wiki/index.php/LDS_Tools_for_Android |
| 19:58.17 | fugue88 | eightyeight: It's only been the last month or so that the site hosting the church's apks hasn't been accessible. |
| 19:58.17 | eightyeight | http://www.ldsmobiletester.com/android/lt/lt-latest-release.apk doesn't work |
| 19:58.28 | fugue88 | DNS problem of some kind, it appears. |
| 19:58.39 | eightyeight | fugue88: do you have the right ip to the server hosting that apk? |
| 19:58.47 | fugue88 | Nopes. :'( |
| 19:58.51 | eightyeight | bummer |
| 19:59.23 | eightyeight | installing OsmAnd~ |
| 19:59.29 | fugue88 | eightyeight: I *do* have the APK itself on my device, but it's before this latest release that's been mentioned on the lds.org front page. |
| 19:59.35 | goozbach | doesn't someone here have a connection inside that org for that DNS issue |
| 19:59.37 | fugue88 | Happy to e-mail it to you, if you want. |
| 19:59.43 | goozbach | :) |
| 19:59.53 | eightyeight | goozbach: i've brought it up in ##lds |
| 19:59.56 | jxqz | TimRiker, maybe |
| 19:59.57 | eightyeight | nothing came up as a result |
| 20:00.04 | eightyeight | fugue88: yeah. that would be great. |
| 20:00.06 | fugue88 | k |
| 20:00.37 | jxqz | yo, TimRiker, can haz fix dns kthxbye |
| 20:10.20 | youtah | but I am le tired |
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| 20:52.47 | Q_Continuum | Well. Then. Have a nap. THEN FIRE ZE MISSILES! |
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| 21:00.32 | TimRiker | http://tech.lds.org/dl/android/org.lds.ldstools/ has the ldstools builds for android. wants ldsaccount login, which it caches for 90 days |
| 21:01.08 | eightyeight | ah. nice. that could be on the wiki, me thinks |
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| 21:03.52 | TimRiker | ok. mike talked about updating the wiki, but it looks like it has not happened yet. |
| 21:05.50 | TimRiker | eightyeight, where did you get that wiki link the the index.php/ in it? that's not required nor suggested. should be: http://tech.lds.org/wiki/LDS_Tools_for_Android |
| 21:06.36 | eightyeight | just a simple search, click the link, copy, paste |
| 21:06.56 | eightyeight | https://duckduckgo.com/?q=lds+tools+android&t=debian |
| 21:07.03 | eightyeight | 2nd link |
| 21:09.00 | TimRiker | interesting. google shows the non-index.php version, but duckduckgo shows the old flavor with index.php |
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| 22:42.04 | romanovic | anyone have experience with Vivint Wireless? |
| 22:42.19 | romanovic | is having it installed this week, hoping it is a better experience than comcast |
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