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| 00:56.21 | pashdown | i would think that no answer would be better than loopback |
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| 01:18.56 | jima | pashdown: it doesn't give loopback if you query it via ipv4. |
| 01:19.54 | jima | i did have it respond with ::1 for AAAA queries over ipv4, until i came up with a better approach. |
| 01:20.49 | fugue88 | If a query comes in for AAAA, can't you assume that the queryor really does want an IPv6 address, even if it queries over IPv4? |
| 01:21.10 | fugue88 | Seems possible for an intermediary dns caching resolver to do something like that. |
| 01:21.24 | fugue88 | Or querying A over IPv6 seems even more likely in such as circumstance. |
| 01:21.49 | fugue88 | What do you gain by trying to out-smart the querying host? |
| 01:22.11 | fugue88 | jima: ^ |
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| 01:23.39 | jima | fugue88: i'm not trying to outsmart it, i'm trying to report it. |
| 01:24.06 | fugue88 | jima: Oh. What for? |
| 01:24.16 | jima | fugue88: curiosity, mostly. |
| 01:24.31 | fugue88 | Well, can't argue against that. :) |
| 01:24.45 | jima | i got to thinking about ISPs that hijack dns queries, and how to most easily detect that |
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| 01:25.23 | jima | so, that FQDN (almost) always returns the ip of the device querying it. |
| 01:25.49 | jima | except for A-over-IPv6 |
| 01:26.05 | fugue88 | Tricky. |
| 01:26.51 | jima | hmm...i suppose i could respond with the first 4 octets of the ipv6 |
| 01:27.04 | jima | that would be marginally more meaningful than 127.0.0.1 |
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| 04:43.39 | jxqz | 1.0.0.127 |
| 04:43.44 | jxqz | 1:: |
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| 15:18.01 | keldwud | up at mountain west devops if anybody is down for lunch around 1130 - 130 |
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| 16:31.29 | eightyeight | cjcothran: i'm willing to meet up with you, if you want |
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| 16:32.35 | eightyeight | keldwud: 10:31:29 <+eightyeight> cjcothran: i'm willing to meet up with you, if you want |
| 16:32.58 | keldwud | eightyeight: cool |
| 16:33.11 | keldwud | I was thinking of just grabbing lunch here at the library |
| 16:33.29 | keldwud | oh yeah, you're just across the street almost, aren't you, eightyeight ? |
| 16:33.33 | eightyeight | yeah |
| 16:33.47 | keldwud | cool, yeah you could just walk here around 1130 if you want |
| 16:34.07 | eightyeight | there's a great burger shop up on 3rd, if you're game |
| 16:34.08 | keldwud | do you wanna eat here at the library? or somewhere else? |
| 16:34.14 | keldwud | yeah I can do that |
| 16:34.18 | keldwud | 3rd east? or 3rd south? |
| 16:34.21 | keldwud | or both |
| 16:34.35 | eightyeight | 3rd south, between main and state, on the south side of 3rd |
| 16:34.43 | eightyeight | called "rich's" |
| 16:35.17 | keldwud | I'm trying to picture it |
| 16:35.30 | keldwud | so it would be east of judge's |
| 16:35.35 | keldwud | or is judge's on 2nd |
| 16:35.51 | keldwud | I can find it, either way |
| 16:35.59 | keldwud | does anybody else want to do lunch? |
| 16:36.12 | peno | rich's is awesome. |
| 16:36.48 | keldwud | let's say 1145 at rich's at approximately 250ish e 300 s downtown slc |
| 16:37.05 | eightyeight | no. not 250 E |
| 16:37.14 | eightyeight | that's too far east |
| 16:37.19 | eightyeight | it's between main and state |
| 16:37.23 | eightyeight | directly north of xmission |
| 16:37.26 | keldwud | ooooh |
| 16:37.26 | keldwud | whoops |
| 16:37.30 | keldwud | 150ish |
| 16:37.46 | peno | by juniors/toasters/etc |
| 16:37.55 | eightyeight | state is 100 east |
| 16:38.00 | eightyeight | it's more like 50 E and 300 S |
| 16:38.35 | keldwud | -er |
| 16:38.37 | keldwud | 50ish |
| 16:38.37 | keldwud | ll |
| 16:38.37 | keldwud | so 50ish east and 300 south |
| 16:38.41 | eightyeight | https://www.google.com/maps/place/Rich's+Burgers+'n+Grub/@40.7627113,-111.8899448,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xa472c819e378a166 |
| 16:38.43 | keldwud | thanks for the correction |
| 16:39.31 | eightyeight | peno: you're welcome to join us, if you want |
| 16:39.34 | eightyeight | Heartsbane: ^^ |
| 16:40.17 | Heartsbane | I could probably do that. |
| 16:40.30 | eightyeight | keldwud: i'm wearing a black xmission hoodie, with 'eightyeight' embroidered over the right chest |
| 16:40.34 | Jayce^ | but you didn't invite Heartsbane, you just pointed out that you invited peno instead |
| 16:40.38 | peno | went to rich's just the other day |
| 16:40.56 | keldwud | cool, mind if I post it in dc801? |
| 16:40.57 | peno | so I will pass, this time. :) |
| 16:41.03 | keldwud | and you wanna share it in xmlounge? |
| 16:41.18 | eightyeight | that's fine |
| 16:41.26 | keldwud | haha nice |
| 16:41.28 | keldwud | I'll wear my con badge |
| 16:41.32 | keldwud | I don't have my beard anymore :( |
| 16:41.35 | keldwud | peno come to socialize |
| 16:42.08 | keldwud | eightyeight: mind if I share it in mwrc? |
| 16:42.13 | eightyeight | it's a small place, so it might be crowded at 11:45 |
| 16:42.18 | eightyeight | keldwud: no. that's fine |
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| 16:42.21 | keldwud | I doubt many people would want to walk that far, but it could be cool |
| 16:42.34 | keldwud | increase the amount of people to network with :) |
| 16:42.42 | eightyeight | there isn't much sitting space. fyi. |
| 16:43.50 | keldwud | then we better grab seats early ;) |
| 16:44.46 | keldwud | I'll keep an eye out for you since you'll be easily identifiable |
| 16:44.59 | keldwud | I'm somewhat nondescript since I made myself look average so I could double my salary |
| 16:45.05 | Heartsbane | Jayce^: story of my life |
| 16:45.11 | keldwud | I'll be growing my beard and hair out again in a few more weeks |
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| 16:45.41 | T4rku5 | I thought you looked good with short hair last week |
| 16:45.49 | keldwud | haha yeah I miss my long hair |
| 16:45.53 | keldwud | next speaker is up |
| 16:45.55 | keldwud | later :) |
| 16:45.58 | keldwud | thanks for the compliment |
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| 16:51.35 | Heartsbane | eightyeight: what time |
| 16:51.55 | eightyeight | Heartsbane: 11:45 |
| 16:52.03 | Heartsbane | k |
| 16:57.11 | youtah | SO freaking awesome: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=452393244798972 |
| 16:57.23 | youtah | I hope ya'll can see this |
| 16:57.49 | youtah | Dad of the year award |
| 16:57.54 | youtah | Mom's need not watch |
| 17:01.01 | eightyeight | youtah: awesome |
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| 17:30.08 | T4rku5 | picking up shirts today! http://d.pr/i/LkXi |
| 17:38.40 | Heartsbane | eightyeight: save me 2 seats |
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| 17:38.54 | Heartsbane | I am going but I going to be a little late |
| 17:39.02 | Heartsbane | like 5-10 minutes |
| 17:39.09 | eightyeight | Heartsbane: ok. i'm just about to leave |
| 17:39.18 | Heartsbane | mumbles something about work. |
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| 18:34.14 | youtah | Good Morning! http://i.imgur.com/u6080TS.gif |
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| 18:47.50 | Migs | wat |
| 18:49.12 | keldwud | marinated grilled artichoke hearts on my burger |
| 18:49.13 | keldwud | that was pretty good |
| 18:49.55 | keldwud | ate at rich's |
| 18:50.49 | keldwud | on 3rd and main |
| 18:50.50 | keldwud | next to judge's |
| 18:51.26 | keldwud | Migs: chicken butt |
| 18:58.03 | Migs | indeed! |
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| 19:11.25 | jxqz | keldwud: ur in slc? |
| 19:11.31 | keldwud | yeah |
| 19:11.35 | keldwud | just for the day |
| 19:11.41 | jxqz | I'm less than a block from there |
| 19:11.43 | keldwud | at the library for mountain west devops |
| 19:11.46 | keldwud | cool :) |
| 19:11.50 | keldwud | you missed us for lunch |
| 19:12.09 | jxqz | our boss got us some great pizza |
| 19:12.10 | keldwud | if I can find a sitter for my daughter, I'll be up here for dinner and the lightning talks |
| 19:12.17 | keldwud | nice. I had Rich's |
| 19:13.03 | keldwud | live stream at http://mtnwestdevops.org/live if anyone is interested. http://mtnwestdevops.org/2014/schedule |
| 19:13.13 | keldwud | dead for another 20 minutes before the next presenter |
| 19:16.49 | Migs | I feel stupid. I didn't realize we got pensions at my work. |
| 19:17.00 | Migs | of course I was hired when I was about 25. Kids that age don't care about stuff like that. |
| 19:17.12 | keldwud | wow, you get a pension |
| 19:17.15 | keldwud | are you guvmnt? |
| 19:17.17 | Migs | ya |
| 19:17.19 | Migs | school district |
| 19:17.31 | Migs | I didn't think anyone got pensions anymore |
| 19:17.40 | keldwud | yeah I thought all the pensions were raided |
| 19:18.06 | Migs | it's not a bad one either |
| 19:18.31 | Migs | it's basically 2% * years worked of my highest earning year |
| 19:19.01 | Migs | so if I max out at $150k after 40 years, I get $120k/yr until I die |
| 19:19.10 | keldwud | wow |
| 19:19.15 | Migs | if I live another 30 years, that's $3.6 million |
| 19:19.20 | keldwud | I'll never be able to work anywhere that long :( |
| 19:19.25 | keldwud | I'll be lucky to even get 10 anywhere |
| 19:19.30 | keldwud | :( |
| 19:19.43 | keldwud | I better start putting money somewhere that makes more than inflation |
| 19:19.47 | keldwud | or buy some land somewhere |
| 19:20.21 | Migs | I just stopped putting money into my 401k and am about to start an IRA. But now I realize I don't need to put nearly as much into it. |
| 19:20.44 | Migs | why would I ever try to get another job anywhere? I don't think I can beat that benefit. |
| 19:23.07 | Migs | that along with tuition reimbursement, a 14% stipend for a masters degree, extra days off for Christmas break and spring break, nice work hours where I'm home by 4pm... |
| 19:23.19 | Migs | sometimes we even get Fridays off in the summer |
| 19:25.24 | keldwud | omfg |
| 19:25.30 | keldwud | you get tuition reimbursement too? |
| 19:25.33 | keldwud | AND a stipend? |
| 19:25.37 | keldwud | can I work in your shop? |
| 19:25.41 | keldwud | plz |
| 19:26.01 | keldwud | I wouldn't ever have to worry about my daughter's future |
| 19:26.02 | jxqz | anyone else having trouble XMPPing into google talk? |
| 19:26.11 | keldwud | I thought they were shutting that down |
| 19:26.19 | keldwud | like over a month ago or something |
| 19:26.21 | jxqz | well :-/ |
| 19:26.28 | jxqz | I was using it yesterday |
| 19:26.41 | jxqz | another reason google has already had its citizen kane moment |
| 19:26.46 | keldwud | http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/05/20/2315216/google-drops-xmpp-support |
| 19:26.48 | Migs | we're hiring, though I think we found the web dev we want |
| 19:26.52 | jxqz | google is becoming teh 3v1l |
| 19:26.57 | keldwud | yeah I don't have much experience with web dev |
| 19:26.59 | Migs | but yeah...it's crazy NOT to earn a masters degree here |
| 19:27.02 | keldwud | I can program at an intern level |
| 19:27.07 | jxqz | google suxorz |
| 19:27.12 | Migs | almost everyone has earned one or is earning one |
| 19:27.19 | keldwud | is this like how people hated on microsoft back in the day? |
| 19:27.21 | jxqz | is going to migrate his email soon |
| 19:27.29 | keldwud | now that google is the big man on campus, it's time to hate on them? ;) |
| 19:27.53 | jxqz | keldwud: google used to be all about openness and community, but now they're drunk on power |
| 19:28.01 | keldwud | I sometimes wonder how prolific technology would be right now with no microsoft |
| 19:28.03 | jxqz | just want to leverage the minions |
| 19:28.20 | keldwud | or how prolific information exchange would be without google |
| 19:28.29 | keldwud | just to play devil's advocate |
| 19:28.36 | jxqz | yes, they did their good, but I don't owe them anything |
| 19:28.42 | keldwud | that's true |
| 19:28.44 | jxqz | they turn against me, I'm going elsewhere |
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| 19:29.27 | keldwud | hello sunsparc |
| 19:29.33 | keldwud | you must be at the con :) |
| 19:29.42 | keldwud | cuz I see library and xmission and the con is at the library |
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| 19:43.06 | jxqz | ~lart google |
| 19:43.06 | infobot | shoots google in his sleep |
| 19:46.18 | eightyeight | google is male? |
| 19:48.40 | romanovic | maybe infobot is. on another one of his sleep rampages. |
| 19:48.54 | eightyeight | ~gender google |
| 19:48.54 | infobot | I heard google is lesbian. |
| 19:49.00 | eightyeight | ~gender infobot |
| 19:49.00 | infobot | I heard infobot is pregnant. |
| 19:49.05 | eightyeight | hmm |
| 19:55.49 | jsmith | That's... awkward.... |
| 19:56.23 | SunSparc | Yes, I hear that being pregnant is quite awkward. |
| 19:56.45 | jxqz | where will I take my chats now? |
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| 20:16.37 | eightyeight | https://plus.google.com/+AaronToponce/posts/dCWdTdaM7j5 |
| 20:16.50 | eightyeight | true random dice, as good as human manufactured dice can get, i guess |
| 20:16.52 | eightyeight | heh |
| 20:30.32 | jsmith | eightyeight: Those would be great for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n8LNxGbZbs |
| 20:31.08 | jsmith | (although the sharp corners would get worn off, I'm sure) |
| 20:31.35 | eightyeight | yeah. someone else showed me that |
| 20:31.36 | eightyeight | heh |
| 20:32.00 | eightyeight | you would be better off just using the random.org api |
| 20:32.04 | eightyeight | but, i guess if you like to build things... |
| 20:32.44 | jsmith | It's for all the people that say that RNG aren't "random" enough |
| 20:33.21 | eightyeight | you can't get more random than quantum events |
| 20:33.24 | jsmith | You can read more about it here: http://gamesbyemail.com/News/DiceOMatic |
| 20:33.34 | eightyeight | yeah |
| 20:33.46 | jsmith | Even with quantum events, people will still complain |
| 20:34.02 | eightyeight | which shows they don't have the slightest clue what they're complaining about |
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| 21:12.11 | levi | Randomness is not an entirely intuitive concept. |
| 21:12.50 | jxqz | most things that seem random aren't quite random |
| 21:13.01 | jxqz | only quantum phenomena are truly random |
| 21:13.17 | jxqz | most things are chaotic |
| 21:13.22 | jxqz | chaotic != random |
| 21:13.30 | RyanE | jxqz: at least you *believe* quantum phenomena are random... :) |
| 21:14.10 | RyanE | Is there a way to prove that anything is *truly* random? |
| 22:01.37 | harleypig | restart the universe ... if it comes up the same then God needs a new random number generator. |
| 22:06.29 | eightyeight | RyanE: no. not really. there are the randomness tests, like diehard and the nist tests, and use a sample, and run statistic analyses on them |
| 22:10.49 | eightyeight | jxqz: that's a good point, actually. chaotic systems can have predictable outputs, even though you may not be able to reliably predict it from a starting value |
| 22:10.53 | eightyeight | aiui |
| 22:13.23 | eightyeight | or, i guess better put, chaos is sensitive to what cannot be observed |
| 22:13.30 | eightyeight | is still a padawan to chaos theory |
| 22:20.59 | jxqz | RyanE: no |
| 22:21.05 | jxqz | nothing can be proved |
| 22:21.57 | jxqz | all you get is epistemological certainty qualified only by probabilistic metrics |
| 22:22.28 | jxqz | and the best quantum models we have demand randomness |
| 22:22.41 | jxqz | or as real random as can be posited in this universe |
| 22:22.45 | jxqz | thus the tautology |
| 22:23.59 | jxqz | random == quantum stochastics |
| 22:24.08 | levi | eightyeight: Chaotic systems are entirely deterministic; their "unpredictability" only comes into play when state information is incomplete or approximate. |
| 22:24.37 | jxqz | thus, true chaos cannot exist in nature |
| 22:24.42 | eightyeight | ok. yeah. that's how i understand it |
| 22:25.09 | eightyeight | (i think) |
| 22:25.11 | eightyeight | heh |
| 22:25.54 | eightyeight | an example that was taught to me was the chaotic nature of weather |
| 22:26.14 | eightyeight | even though we have monitoring stations, it is still difficult to reliably predict the weather |
| 22:26.22 | levi | In non-chaotic systems, you can get a reasonable long-term approximation of behavior of a system based on approximate details of its starting state. But beyond a relatively short window, predicting behavior of chaotic systems with approximate starting information becomes impossible. |
| 22:26.32 | eightyeight | because we do not have a full understanding of the weather that is not monitored |
| 22:26.43 | eightyeight | and that could play drastic roles in the final output |
| 22:27.12 | eightyeight | thus, my understanding of its sensitivity to ignorance |
| 22:27.25 | levi | It's not just a matter of understanding. I mean, we understand the low-level interactions of matter well enough. We just can't get all the data. |
| 22:27.28 | T4rku5 | does it make a difference if the system is chaotic-good or chaotic-bad? |
| 22:27.58 | eightyeight | levi: yeah. that's what i meant |
| 22:29.00 | levi | Although, chaotic systems with strange attractors are entirely predictable at a meta-level even though the exact behavior is not. |
| 22:29.58 | eightyeight | doesn't change that i have AWESOME dice though. :) |
| 22:30.34 | levi | I wrote some programs for my calculator back in high school that drew fractals with Iterated Function Systems. |
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| 22:31.41 | eightyeight | heh. nice. |
| 22:31.54 | eightyeight | i wrote a prime number validator. :) |
| 22:32.52 | levi | You can generally define a geometric fractal (Sierpenski's Triangle, for example) as a set of 2-d transformation functions that each run on your starting line segment in order to transform it to the fractal, assuming you iteratively apply the set of transformations. |
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| 22:34.34 | levi | But, instead of running each of the transformation functions multiple times, operating on line segments from the last step, you can instead consider them separately and operate on points instead. At each step, you pick a random transformation function, apply it to the last step's point, and plot the resulting point. Repeat infinitely and your fractal will appear. |
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| 22:43.23 | levi | That's about the extent of what I know about chaos theory. Oh, that, and the dude from Jurassic Park was supposedly a chaos theoretician. :P |
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| 22:56.41 | keldwud | anybody down for dinner in slc? |
| 22:56.59 | unum | the other day someone mentioned a consumer grade service for hosting your own pbx |
| 22:57.22 | unum | as in you could install asterisk on an rpi and pay this company to connect you to the phone exchange |
| 22:57.24 | keldwud | was that when we were talking about magic jacks? |
| 22:57.33 | keldwud | sip provider? |
| 22:57.41 | keldwud | I think that's what you're looking for |
| 22:57.50 | unum | ya sip provider |
| 22:57.52 | keldwud | I believe SIP providers are the ones that connect you to the phone exchange |
| 22:57.57 | unum | I should know that..... |
| 22:58.12 | unum | a consumer level sip provider |
| 22:58.29 | unum | vitelity |
| 22:58.33 | unum | found it in my browser history |
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