| 00:00.10 | jxqz | ~napoleon Tene |
| 00:00.10 | infobot | ACTION makes Tene his secret service captian |
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| 00:07.37 | levi | I don't have a link handy, but search for Avi Bryant statsd talk or something like that. |
| 00:08.10 | levi | Also I think the name had Abelian groups in the name, though it was mostly about commutative monoids. |
| 00:16.20 | jxqz | do you mean commutative magmas? |
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| 00:59.13 | levi | No, I meant commutative monoids. |
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| 01:04.04 | levi | Hmm, I just learned that the free magamas over types represent binary trees with labeled leaves where multiplication is joining of two trees at their roots. |
| 01:04.49 | jxqz | that's interesting |
| 01:05.11 | jxqz | levi: do you still do that theoretical computer science group? |
| 01:05.28 | jxqz | because, now that I'm out of school I can do things like that :) |
| 01:07.55 | levi | jxqz: Well, not the one I was doing a few years ago. But there's a functional programming languages group, Lambda Lounge Utah, that just started a couple of months ago. |
| 01:08.02 | levi | You should come! |
| 01:08.08 | levi | See the meetup page. |
| 01:08.32 | levi | I gave a presentation on Haskell this month. |
| 01:10.22 | levi | It's on the group's Youtube channel if you want to see it. |
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| 01:55.27 | jxqz | where? |
| 01:56.02 | jxqz | sandy |
| 02:03.13 | jxqz | so, maybe I'll come |
| 02:03.50 | klys | I now have my first debian vm running gnome |
| 02:03.56 | klys | on xenserver |
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| 02:18.37 | levi | jxqz: Just come. It'll be fun. There's usually food, too. |
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| 15:05.25 | klys | ~slashdot |
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| 15:34.26 | bonez2046 | I am trying to configure my server with port forwarding to 22. I am running ubuntu 12.10. DHCP works consistently, but if I change my /etc/network/interfaces to iface eth0 inet static |
| 15:34.37 | bonez2046 | then ifup -a give this error: root@fyrenice:/etc/network# ifup -a |
| 15:34.42 | bonez2046 | RTNETLINK answers: File exists |
| 15:34.48 | bonez2046 | Failed to bring up eth0. |
| 15:35.07 | bonez2046 | why does my system connect fine with dhcp but not with static? |
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| 16:50.06 | cjcothran | omg it will cost me between 600 bucks and 1000 bucks to take me and my daughter to see katy perry! |
| 16:50.16 | cjcothran | and you wanna know the shitty part about it? |
| 16:50.18 | cjcothran | I'm actually considering it |
| 16:50.32 | cjcothran | I get butterflies just thinking about going. lol. |
| 16:51.22 | cjcothran | I don't understand how there are different prices for general admission, though |
| 16:53.21 | Greagle | ha, when it comes to pricing, it makes sense that it doesn't have to make sense. |
| 16:54.07 | Greagle | I didn't know KP was so popular, dang.. |
| 16:56.05 | youtah | Uh..... Heck yes Katy Perry is hot... I mean, um.... popular! |
| 17:02.58 | programmerq | Tene: I have a super simple junky script shoving some data into istatd. I'm pretty impressed. |
| 17:03.16 | programmerq | even its relatively basic interface is well throught out-- the charting lib does a good job. |
| 17:03.17 | cjcothran | youtah: what's the difference? |
| 17:03.19 | cjcothran | whynotboth.jpg |
| 17:03.31 | cjcothran | god I want to go so bad |
| 17:03.40 | cjcothran | maybe I should stop listening to her music and save myself some money |
| 17:03.52 | cjcothran | contemplates pulling the headphones out |
| 17:03.54 | cjcothran | but |
| 17:04.04 | cjcothran | IT FEELS SO WRONG BUT IT FEELS SO RIGHT |
| 17:04.06 | klys | go over the songs that might be in the concert. contemplate the meanings. see if your wife agrees. |
| 17:04.11 | cjcothran | ^ katy perry lyrics, btw |
| 17:04.17 | cjcothran | wife? |
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| 17:04.22 | klys | wt. |
| 17:04.26 | cjcothran | what is this? utah? where everyone has a wife? |
| 17:04.36 | RyanE | no, this is #utah, where most do. |
| 17:04.40 | levi | One or more! :P |
| 17:04.42 | RyanE | or *many*, maybe. |
| 17:04.45 | RyanE | heh |
| 17:04.53 | cjcothran | my daughter, when she was 3, asked me to go to the store to find a mommy |
| 17:04.59 | cjcothran | I cried |
| 17:05.00 | cjcothran | lol |
| 17:05.44 | T4rku5 | cjcothran, you may have shared this before, but I don't know the background -- can you share why your daughter has no mommy? |
| 17:05.52 | cjcothran | oh yeah, this is keldwud |
| 17:05.59 | cjcothran | if that helps jog your memory |
| 17:06.35 | klys | then, after contemplation, try to discern whether you have double standards for your daughter. if this is a double standard to her, then reason with her about it. |
| 17:06.46 | cjcothran | wait what? |
| 17:06.49 | cjcothran | double standard? |
| 17:06.52 | cjcothran | so confused |
| 17:07.00 | klys | if it seems safe from your perspective and hers, then you can go. |
| 17:07.05 | cjcothran | whaaat? |
| 17:07.10 | cjcothran | what's happening? |
| 17:07.26 | cjcothran | I missed part of the conversation |
| 17:07.43 | klys | like, I don't know anyone that is raising a daughter to be seductive for example while in the mean time she watches cartoons and plays. |
| 17:07.51 | cjcothran | haha |
| 17:07.58 | cjcothran | yeah, I'm backing out of this one |
| 17:08.09 | cjcothran | I understand what you mean with songs like peacock |
| 17:08.26 | cjcothran | but yeah, I think you don't really know what you're talking about and are just having a knee jerk reaction to the topic of katy perry |
| 17:08.36 | cjcothran | and live in a world where women can't be sexual |
| 17:08.39 | klys | I have asked you to be considerate |
| 17:08.53 | cjcothran | yeah, backin out of this one. |
| 17:09.01 | cjcothran | now I'm getting parenting tips from a stranger on the internet |
| 17:09.07 | cjcothran | who has no idea of the background of what is going on |
| 17:09.10 | klys | hmm...I'm usu. here |
| 17:09.14 | cjcothran | or how I actually interact with my daughter |
| 17:09.37 | cjcothran | and I honestly don't need to explain myself either, not when it is something as simple as taking my daughter to a concert |
| 17:09.55 | klys | :) |
| 17:10.07 | klys | ...keep calm. |
| 17:10.14 | cjcothran | I've proven beyond a reasonable doubt that I'm actually quite more capable of parenting than the average joe who thinks they know about parenting just because they have kids |
| 17:10.18 | cjcothran | sorry, I'm very defensive about my situation |
| 17:10.26 | cjcothran | because of the shit I had to go through to get where I'm at |
| 17:10.31 | cjcothran | so I'm also quite sensitive about it, too |
| 17:11.00 | cjcothran | the people who generally try and give me "advice" are the same people who never once had to fight for what was right for their kids |
| 17:11.10 | cjcothran | and they just coast along with their parenting because they've never been challenged |
| 17:11.32 | cjcothran | I've earned every bit of freedom I get with my daughter and how I interact with her and how I raise her |
| 17:11.54 | cjcothran | most other people just had it kind of fall in their laps for whatever reason |
| 17:12.18 | cjcothran | but yeah, you'll have to forgive my oversensitivity on this topic |
| 17:12.47 | cjcothran | I'm not necessarily attacking *you* per se, this is just my knee jerk emotional reaction when somebody approaches me about my relationship with my daughter |
| 17:13.00 | cjcothran | T4rku5: because mom is an opiate addict |
| 17:13.38 | cjcothran | T4rku5: when I finally found my daughter it was when the police called and said they had picked up my daughter in a parking lot in a car at 4am with mom nodding off on opiates barely able to drive |
| 17:14.00 | cjcothran | with some dude in the car who has a wrap sheet of domestic violence and a charge involving kids and there were drugs in the car |
| 17:14.13 | cjcothran | that's why she doesn't have a mommy |
| 17:14.27 | cjcothran | because she's unsafe through and through, and incapable of change |
| 17:14.27 | T4rku5 | wow |
| 17:14.39 | cjcothran | 2 years in and out of jail since I've had full custody |
| 17:14.50 | cjcothran | not even once has been able to go into a supervised situation to visit with her daughter |
| 17:15.08 | T4rku5 | I'm sorry for you and for your daughter |
| 17:15.14 | cjcothran | and even then, the state tried their damndest to keep me and her apart |
| 17:15.14 | T4rku5 | I was thinking perhaps she had died |
| 17:15.17 | cjcothran | nope |
| 17:15.18 | cjcothran | worse |
| 17:15.30 | cjcothran | because she can pop up any ol time and cause my daughter grief |
| 17:15.59 | cjcothran | ok I need to work. lol |
| 17:18.46 | cjcothran | http://youtu.be/CevxZvSJLk8 |
| 17:19.39 | youtah | klys, cjcothran wait.... you mean the meanings of songs mean something? Has anyone told Justin Bieber or Rebecca Black that yet? |
| 17:21.08 | youtah | "Everything is awesome! Everything is awesome when you're part of a team.... Everything is AweSOME!" - Lego Movie |
| 17:24.23 | cjcothran | hey, is there a tool for windows similar to cssh? |
| 17:24.24 | goozbach | youtah: I've been singing that for a straigt week |
| 17:24.47 | programmerq | cjcothran: on windows I gave up and ran cssh in a VM. |
| 17:25.08 | cjcothran | programmerq: hmmm. I don't have any GUI linux vms set up yet... |
| 17:25.22 | cjcothran | I really do prefer two computers. one windows and one linux |
| 17:25.27 | cjcothran | much much better for working |
| 17:25.33 | programmerq | I also was able to run cssh somewhat successfully inside cygwin |
| 17:25.39 | programmerq | but it wasn't 100% there |
| 17:25.41 | cjcothran | plus, that gives me four screens with synergy installed |
| 17:25.55 | cjcothran | thanks for the feedback, programmerq :) |
| 17:26.12 | cjcothran | hey, so I don't work at where you interviewed anymore. I moved on finally. |
| 17:26.12 | programmerq | my coworkers used stuff like puttycm |
| 17:26.17 | cjcothran | puttycm? |
| 17:26.20 | cjcothran | I'll check it out |
| 17:26.21 | programmerq | but I always hated that though |
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| 17:26.32 | youtah | lol goozbach |
| 17:26.33 | programmerq | you get a text box, and it sends your text after you hit enter |
| 17:26.44 | programmerq | so you can't do fun things like up arrow enter |
| 17:26.56 | programmerq | or use vim in a meaningful way |
| 17:27.08 | programmerq | not that I mass vim things, but every once in a while it's nice |
| 17:27.23 | programmerq | ctrl+c is a gui button you hit |
| 17:27.29 | programmerq | cssh is much much better. :) |
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| 17:29.34 | cjcothran | hmm, yeah it should work for my purposes then |
| 17:29.40 | cjcothran | I'm not doing anything advanced on these machines |
| 17:32.49 | programmerq | cjcothran: depending what you're doing, something like salt might be nice to have. |
| 17:33.15 | cjcothran | well, we aren't at the automation stage yet. |
| 17:33.22 | cjcothran | because it hasn't been approved |
| 17:33.23 | cjcothran | lol |
| 17:33.33 | bonez2046 | I am glad I don't live in that world, cjcothran |
| 17:33.56 | bonez2046 | my wife'd never let me live there |
| 17:34.45 | cjcothran | bonez2046: you're glad you don't live in a world with katy perry because your wife would be mad if you did? |
| 17:34.51 | cjcothran | scratches head |
| 17:35.41 | bonez2046 | no, in a world where women can't be sexual |
| 17:36.00 | bonez2046 | andn glad I have no daughters who would listen to KP |
| 17:36.55 | cjcothran | lol |
| 17:37.23 | cjcothran | katy perry, by far, has a much higher ratio of non-sexual and uplifting songs to sexual songs |
| 17:37.45 | bonez2046 | I won't disparage KP or her playlist |
| 17:37.47 | cjcothran | I'd have to say maybe one or two songs per album are not age appropriate for my daughter |
| 17:38.04 | cjcothran | and she doesn't come across as overtly sexual at all to me |
| 17:38.12 | cjcothran | she's not hypersexualized, imho |
| 17:38.21 | cjcothran | like most female figures in our culture |
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| 17:38.33 | cjcothran | she's at least aware of her own sexuality |
| 17:38.58 | cjcothran | whereas as a culture we tend to slut-shame women for displaying any form of sexuality |
| 17:39.02 | cjcothran | and we repress them |
| 17:39.13 | cjcothran | because "it's not right for women to act that way" |
| 17:39.30 | bonez2046 | she's no Miley wrecking ball Cyrus....I get it |
| 17:39.33 | RyanE | someone's a bit "ranty" today... |
| 17:39.38 | cjcothran | which is obviously a contradictory view for me because I am against they hypersexualization of our girls in our culture |
| 17:39.42 | cjcothran | RyanE: I'm always ranty :) |
| 17:39.45 | RyanE | :) |
| 17:39.50 | cjcothran | kyls started it |
| 17:40.05 | cjcothran | I'm being a bit more rational with bonez2046 |
| 17:40.12 | bonez2046 | thank you |
| 17:40.15 | cjcothran | lol |
| 17:40.23 | RyanE | I think she's a shining star compared to most other "pop stars" |
| 17:40.30 | cjcothran | that's because you didn't start with giving me parenting advice |
| 17:40.53 | RyanE | but admittedly, I'm not her target audience and haven't followed all that closely... |
| 17:41.01 | cjcothran | yeah, with her sexuality, she's not expressing it as a way to get money or manipulate her audience |
| 17:41.12 | cjcothran | she's expressing her own personal experience with sexuality |
| 17:41.16 | cjcothran | like madonna |
| 17:41.18 | cjcothran | :-p |
| 17:41.24 | cjcothran | it's not being used as a prop |
| 17:41.31 | cjcothran | if that makes any sense |
| 17:41.35 | RyanE | Advice is *just* advice... Take it or leave it, but it'll be offered... |
| 17:42.04 | cjcothran | I get that, there are just some things that I react emotionally to no matter how rational and logical I'd like to be |
| 17:43.05 | youtah | I'd be willing to bet two jelly beans that cjcothran wins for the most number of lines today... http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/utah.html.gz |
| 17:43.35 | goozbach | gets ready to paste kernel sources |
| 17:43.42 | goozbach | it's been a LONG time since I one that game |
| 17:43.44 | cjcothran | :-p |
| 17:43.52 | cjcothran | one that game? |
| 17:44.28 | RyanE | won |
| 17:45.19 | youtah | lol |
| 17:46.36 | goozbach | s/one/won/ |
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| 17:46.42 | goozbach | own? |
| 17:48.04 | ldav15_ | now? |
| 17:48.22 | cjcothran | hmm |
| 17:48.37 | goozbach | now |
| 17:48.40 | cjcothran | is there a better way to reload /etc/selinux/config other than rebooting? |
| 17:48.48 | goozbach | cjcothran: reload how? |
| 17:48.55 | goozbach | disable/enable? |
| 17:48.56 | cjcothran | well it's a config file |
| 17:49.03 | goozbach | or changing policy |
| 17:49.03 | cjcothran | and I changed it from enforced to disable |
| 17:49.10 | cjcothran | now I want the new config to be applied |
| 17:49.20 | cjcothran | but I don't know what selinux is |
| 17:49.26 | cjcothran | or what services are asssociated with it |
| 17:49.28 | goozbach | reboot is the only way to get to/from disabled |
| 17:49.33 | cjcothran | ahh, ok |
| 17:49.34 | goozbach | it's a security framework |
| 17:49.38 | cjcothran | thanks |
| 17:49.48 | goozbach | you can temporaraly go into permissive mode using setenforce |
| 17:49.57 | goozbach | thre are three states |
| 17:50.01 | goozbach | enfocing, permissive, and disabled |
| 17:50.15 | goozbach | enforcing is locked down (ie bad stuff isn't allowed) |
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| 17:50.31 | goozbach | permissive is just logging (ie bad stuff can happen but is logged) |
| 17:50.46 | goozbach | and disabled, is well disabled (no checking on bad stuff at all) |
| 17:51.30 | cjcothran | why would I want it disabled, btw? |
| 17:52.19 | goozbach | cjcothran: you *SHOULDN'T* want it disabled |
| 17:52.46 | cjcothran | hmm.. |
| 17:52.53 | goozbach | but sometimes (a lot) people don't provide good examples of how to make their applications "selinux safe" |
| 17:52.59 | cjcothran | ahh |
| 17:53.01 | cjcothran | because devs |
| 17:53.14 | goozbach | and it's a big complex monster (not really) and it's "just easier to turn it off" |
| 17:53.16 | cjcothran | that's my guess. the people who developed our software couldn't make it work |
| 17:53.20 | cjcothran | makes sense |
| 17:53.25 | goozbach | bullseye |
| 17:53.39 | cjcothran | is it something I should try and tackle? or is it one of those things a noob like me should keep my mouth shut about |
| 17:53.45 | cjcothran | seeing as I really don't know how to fix it |
| 17:53.58 | goozbach | cjcothran: it's not really easy for the beginner |
| 17:54.15 | ldav15_ | permissive is not _just_ logging -- e.g. "ls -l" will have the extra field in output on the LHS. If it's set to disabled "ls -l" won't have that. |
| 17:54.33 | ldav15_ | and little quirks like that can make stuff broken |
| 17:54.50 | goozbach | ldav15_: I was making a simplification |
| 17:55.09 | goozbach | we didn't need to get into contexts to explain why he needs to reboot |
| 17:55.12 | ldav15_ | goozbach: I know. |
| 17:55.16 | cjcothran | I'll allow the simplification in this case :) |
| 17:55.25 | cjcothran | because he's right, it would have just confused me |
| 17:55.31 | bonez2046 | I just want to figure how to resolve this: RTNETLINK answers: File exists Failed to bring up eth0 |
| 17:55.44 | goozbach | cjcothran: if you're interested, research manditory access control |
| 17:55.52 | cjcothran | oh, here's an analogy |
| 17:55.56 | goozbach | s/interested/interested or can't sleep/ |
| 17:56.09 | goozbach | it'll give you the 30k foot view |
| 17:56.27 | cjcothran | mandatory access controll, ok |
| 17:56.32 | cjcothran | s/manditory/mandatory |
| 17:56.38 | cjcothran | you're on a roll today, goozbach ;) |
| 17:57.36 | goozbach | never could spell good |
| 17:58.10 | cjcothran | ok, I've another question |
| 17:58.30 | cjcothran | I've been creating new machines in a new environment but I don't have a "domain" in my new environment |
| 17:58.46 | cjcothran | i.e. all my hosts, I've just been naming with a single hostname, not hostname.domain.tld |
| 17:59.07 | cjcothran | would it hurt if I started naming them with a FQDN even though they aren't a part of a domain yet? |
| 18:01.41 | goozbach | use the example domain |
| 18:01.45 | goozbach | hostX.example.com |
| 18:02.01 | goozbach | example.com is built for testing/demos etc |
| 18:02.10 | cjcothran | ok cool |
| 18:02.11 | cjcothran | thanks |
| 18:02.22 | goozbach | that way you don't step on domains of whereever |
| 18:03.20 | cjcothran | what I don't get is that there are plenty of women out there who do things like have sex with their husbands and all sorts of other freaky stuff, but we don't discredit them as suitable role models for children by telling the children that that woman displayed sexuality and that that is inappropriate |
| 18:03.31 | cjcothran | why don't we ever have *those* types of conversations with our kids? |
| 18:03.46 | cjcothran | hey kids, you know, your mother does some sexual things sometimes, and I want you to know that that isn't okay |
| 18:03.57 | cjcothran | re: rant |
| 18:04.08 | cjcothran | that was just bugging me for some reason, still |
| 18:04.55 | bonez2046 | goozbach: any ideas on my static vs dhcp dilemma? |
| 18:04.57 | cjcothran | it's like if in christian and muslim countries, a woman is known to the public to have participated in displays of sexuality, she is no longer taken seriously |
| 18:05.21 | *** join/#utah natgeorg (~nathan.ge@199.192.164.75) |
| 18:05.21 | *** join/#utah natgeorg (~nathan.ge@unaffiliated/nage) |
| 18:05.46 | cjcothran | or we teach children that we aren't to listen to anything they have to say |
| 18:06.24 | goozbach | bonez2046: didn't see it in the backlog, what's up? |
| 18:06.27 | RyanE | cjcothran: I don't think selinux has *anything* to say about that. |
| 18:07.11 | cjcothran | our culture is so oppressive towards women that we even feel it necessary to protect other people's children from the blatant sexuality produced by pop stars and making sure they talk to their children to let them know that certain things are not okay |
| 18:07.12 | cjcothran | ;) |
| 18:07.16 | cjcothran | RyanE: heh. |
| 18:07.22 | bonez2046 | I just want to figure how to resolve this: RTNETLINK answers: File exists Failed to bring up eth0 |
| 18:07.23 | cjcothran | yeah I can't get that chip off my shoulder |
| 18:07.34 | goozbach | bonez2046: what does ifconfig tell you |
| 18:07.38 | goozbach | or ip addr show |
| 18:07.38 | bonez2046 | I get dhcp assigned ip and that works fine |
| 18:07.50 | goozbach | when you try to change to static it doesn't? |
| 18:07.53 | goozbach | which distro? |
| 18:08.01 | bonez2046 | ubuntu 12.10 |
| 18:08.09 | goozbach | is the mac address correct in the config file |
| 18:08.25 | goozbach | doesn't remember the proper file/syntax for ubuntu configs... |
| 18:08.30 | goozbach | but that's where I'd look first |
| 18:08.35 | bonez2046 | ifconfig shows inet addr:192.168.2.50 Bcast:192.168.2.51 Mask:255.255.255.252 |
| 18:08.48 | RyanE | not sure why you have a chip over other people having opinions. |
| 18:08.50 | goozbach | device name and mac address match what they should be |
| 18:09.20 | cjcothran | is it yum -y install or yum install -y? |
| 18:09.22 | goozbach | cjcothran: here's a reddit post about your question the other day: http://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/1yi6yx/server_prebroken_images_to_train_in_fixing/ |
| 18:09.31 | goozbach | I use the second |
| 18:09.35 | bonez2046 | the hw address mac is as it should be |
| 18:09.36 | cjcothran | goozbach: oooh thanks for remembering :) |
| 18:09.45 | goozbach | as the '-y' is an arg to the install submcommand |
| 18:09.51 | bonez2046 | and device name too |
| 18:09.51 | goozbach | although I think it works the other way |
| 18:10.08 | goozbach | bonez2046: the next place to look is in udev config |
| 18:10.15 | goozbach | again I don't know where that is |
| 18:10.17 | goozbach | on ubuntu |
| 18:10.30 | goozbach | ohh |
| 18:10.32 | bonez2046 | nor do I |
| 18:10.40 | cjcothran | wait, what are you looking for bonez2046? |
| 18:10.40 | goozbach | bonez2046: are you trying to do ifup eth0? |
| 18:10.45 | cjcothran | sorry, I missed it |
| 18:10.49 | cjcothran | I might know the answer, though |
| 18:10.53 | goozbach | or networking restart or what? |
| 18:11.00 | bonez2046 | I tried that, and it didn't work either, that or ifup -a |
| 18:11.03 | goozbach | if the interface is already up, you can't bring it up again |
| 18:11.10 | goozbach | ifdown eth0 |
| 18:11.12 | goozbach | ifup eth0 |
| 18:11.17 | bonez2046 | I ifdown -a to take it down |
| 18:11.23 | cjcothran | RyanE: but some opinions are just a veil for intolerance :-p that's why :) |
| 18:12.01 | cjcothran | like, there's no such thing as an "opinion" that somebody shouldn't have equal rights based on their skin color, sexuality, or gender |
| 18:12.15 | bonez2046 | I take it down first, and lose connection, then I switch to the static IP config AND thath doesn't connect, ifup -a or ifup eth0 doesn't come up either |
| 18:12.21 | cjcothran | or even equal respect |
| 18:12.42 | RyanE | people can have honest differences of opinion without it being intolerance. People have different values. |
| 18:13.39 | *** part/#utah Nemus_ (~Nemus@unaffiliated/nemus) |
| 18:13.43 | cjcothran | but then we end up back on the slippery slope of "it's okay for me to live my life according to my values (i.e. religion) and my values tell me that certain things aren't okay, therefore I must make sure that those things don't happen or that other people aren't doing them |
| 18:13.50 | bonez2046 | any other ideas, goozbach |
| 18:14.00 | cjcothran | of course, the initial argument wasn't necessarily as bad as I've just outlined it |
| 18:14.32 | cjcothran | "I have a value which I hold that tells me that x group of people are immoral/wrong" |
| 18:15.00 | cjcothran | so there really should be a lline drawn between differing opinions in values and how we express those differences |
| 18:15.10 | cjcothran | even expressing those differences can sometimes be a form of oppression |
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| 18:15.49 | cjcothran | because we are social creatures, so even expressing (especially to a young undeveloped brain) displeasure with something can drastically change how they develop in life |
| 18:16.22 | RyanE | but not expressing any values that you hold as important can also drastically change how they develop in life. |
| 18:16.31 | cjcothran | I'm of the personal belief that anything we do that hinders a person's confidence and ability to express themselves in a safe and non-destructive manner is unacceptable |
| 18:16.42 | cjcothran | RyanE: I can accept that |
| 18:17.15 | RyanE | and it's your right as a parent to do that with your kids. Not allowing other parents the right to raise their kids the way *they* see fit seems to be the same sin you're accusing others of. |
| 18:17.22 | cjcothran | there's where we get a bit iffy and into a grey area where I haven't personally explored or defined it for myself |
| 18:17.52 | cjcothran | RyanE: well, not to use hyperbole, but there are some cases where some "values" are universally harmful |
| 18:18.02 | cjcothran | like saying prayer works better than medicine |
| 18:18.09 | cjcothran | when a child is in diabetic shock |
| 18:18.21 | cjcothran | in that case, I believe it is perfectly okay to take away a person's "right" to parent |
| 18:18.25 | bonez2046 | how about both options, cjcothran ? |
| 18:18.34 | cjcothran | I can't argue against both |
| 18:18.41 | cjcothran | because then the child is getting the medical treatment she needs |
| 18:18.56 | bonez2046 | certainly, I'd say give the injection and the PRAY that it all works |
| 18:19.07 | cjcothran | lolol |
| 18:19.08 | RyanE | the issue always boils down to: whose right is it to choose? |
| 18:19.18 | cjcothran | yeah, it gets tough when it comes to children |
| 18:19.21 | cjcothran | you're absolutely right there |
| 18:19.50 | cjcothran | but I think when you can show empirically that certain behaviours damage a child, then it is safe to say that a parent participating in those behaviors is in the wrong |
| 18:20.09 | cjcothran | and you can use that same argument against me, actually |
| 18:20.19 | cjcothran | when it comes to exposing my daughter to certain ideas in songs |
| 18:20.41 | cjcothran | but I'd be able to argue back that what I am doing can't be shown to be harming my daughter ;) |
| 18:20.46 | cjcothran | short or long term |
| 18:21.15 | cjcothran | when you are harming others, you lose your right to choose your actions |
| 18:21.17 | RyanE | You are the parent, and unless you're causing imminent physical danger, I think you should be in charge of that. |
| 18:21.38 | cjcothran | you have a point, now that I'm connecting the dots |
| 18:21.52 | RyanE | even in your "prayer vs. medicine" argument, I don't think the parents should lose the right to choose for the child if it's not directly endangering the child. |
| 18:22.12 | cjcothran | when it comes to opressing women, I can't really argue empirically yet that certain "opinions" and "values" cause long term effects in a woman |
| 18:22.21 | cjcothran | in about 5 or 10 years, maybe |
| 18:22.28 | cjcothran | but right now, we just don't have enough evidence gathered |
| 18:22.46 | goozbach | bonez2046: sorry not at the momement |
| 18:23.04 | RyanE | yeah... good luck with that... You're getting into some wishy-washy science that's going to be nearly impossible to prove to any degree of accuracy. |
| 18:23.11 | bonez2046 | goozbach: I asked in #ubuntu and ##networking, but got no response |
| 18:23.25 | cjcothran | RyanE: yeah, I'd be hard pressed to argue in favor of taking away a parent's right to choose prayer over medicine if it can't be shown that it is harming the child |
| 18:23.28 | RyanE | raise *your* child to be confident and comfortable with themself. |
| 18:23.33 | cjcothran | ^ |
| 18:23.38 | cjcothran | I can absolutely agree on that one |
| 18:23.49 | cjcothran | that was one of the foundations of my original stance |
| 18:23.51 | RyanE | and don't worry about others' opinions or advice. |
| 18:24.02 | RyanE | and ranting in #utah isn't going to change anything... :) |
| 18:24.04 | cjcothran | and I obviously worry too much about others' opinions :) |
| 18:24.09 | RyanE | or Utah, for that matter... :) |
| 18:24.18 | cjcothran | the worrying thing comes from what I had to go through |
| 18:24.20 | cjcothran | it gave me a complex |
| 18:24.28 | cjcothran | because I *had* to care what others thought of me |
| 18:24.30 | RyanE | yeah, that would. |
| 18:24.33 | cjcothran | so that I could be with my daughter |
| 18:24.38 | cjcothran | even though I had done nothing wrong |
| 18:24.47 | RyanE | well, glad you're getting the chance to do what you think's right by her. |
| 18:24.58 | cjcothran | I'm still kind of traumatized over the experience and haven't figured out how to regain my self-confidence |
| 18:25.13 | RyanE | do your best, confidence will come over time. |
| 18:25.24 | RyanE | kids are pretty resilient. |
| 18:25.24 | cjcothran | thanks for being rational with me, RyanE and not allowing my emotional reactions to get in the way of our discussion |
| 18:26.14 | cjcothran | I'm still going to hear "women shouldn't be sexual, ever" whenever anyone says "that girl, she shouldn't act that way, it's inappropriate" or "think about the children" ;) |
| 18:26.21 | cjcothran | I don't know how to hear it any other way |
| 18:26.46 | joshh | just reattached and can't tell what's going on |
| 18:26.48 | cjcothran | I hyperboly and straw-man the shit out of it before I even internalize the message |
| 18:26.56 | cjcothran | joshh: oh just me herping and derping |
| 18:27.17 | cjcothran | ranting about nothing in particular, nothing that really matters as much as I pretend it does :) |
| 18:27.20 | bonez2046 | well, I hear BS often from less informed and enlightened people around me....I don't regard or acknowledge such BS...and just proceed and do what i feel to be right |
| 18:27.29 | RyanE | ^ |
| 18:27.44 | RyanE | "think of the children" means: Do what I say, I have no valid argument. |
| 18:27.54 | cjcothran | that's the crux, though. we *all* think those around us are less informed than ourselves :) |
| 18:28.09 | cjcothran | oh here we go |
| 18:28.18 | cjcothran | this is a great example |
| 18:28.40 | cjcothran | http://youtu.be/PHkpbh5Px1w |
| 18:28.41 | cjcothran | heh |
| 18:29.06 | cjcothran | it takes two, two opinions, two perspectives, there are two different ways to look at things, and it takes two to say I'm sorry |
| 18:29.10 | cjcothran | that's the message in that song |
| 18:29.33 | cjcothran | just sounded appropriate because I was listening to it as we were talking about differeing opinions |
| 18:30.17 | cjcothran | if I run yum check-update before I install some packages, do I need to run a yum update after? |
| 18:30.46 | cjcothran | of course, this probably only applies after update has been run at least once on a fresh install |
| 18:31.36 | RyanE | This conversation reminds me of this, one of my favorite posts evar: http://mindhacks.com/2013/09/21/this-complex-and-tragic-event-supports-my-own-view/ |
| 18:32.51 | cjcothran | lol |
| 18:32.54 | cjcothran | I love the title |
| 18:33.02 | cjcothran | because I fall into that trap all. the. time |
| 18:33.06 | cjcothran | it's so easy |
| 18:34.21 | cjcothran | wow, I respect that author's ability to catch himself in the act like that |
| 18:35.10 | cjcothran | I'm only at the point where I can catch myself after the fact. I've gotten to the point where usually it is only moments instead of months or years when I realized I've made an error in thinking, but still. I'd love to be at the same level as this author |
| 18:35.35 | cjcothran | "But it wasn’t until he started to involve himself in the one thing that I particularly object to" |
| 18:35.37 | cjcothran | mad respect |
| 18:35.41 | cjcothran | thanks for the link, RyanE |
| 18:35.54 | cjcothran | omg yum update takes so long |
| 18:39.38 | levi | Damn, I've hit my vacation time cap. I need to take some time off. |
| 18:40.26 | RyanE | sucks to be you, levi. |
| 18:40.27 | RyanE | :) |
| 18:40.58 | RyanE | we can only roll over 40 hours, so our "cap" is always at the end of the calendar year. |
| 18:41.19 | cjcothran | #firstworldproblems |
| 18:41.27 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (~macnewbol@inferno.apxalarm.com) |
| 18:41.36 | RyanE | heh |
| 18:42.52 | *** join/#utah bonez2046 (~LiveWell@173-14-239-229-Utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 18:46.30 | levi | Well, the problem is not so much that I need to take vacation, but that I've probably *lost* some vacation time due to not taking enough. |
| 18:46.36 | tomstokes | levi: Hey you, start slacking off more. |
| 18:47.18 | Jayce | levi: had a similar issue, I had 47 hours beyond our cap this year, and when I was going to take it, they needed me to travel, so I now have an extra week "off the books" that they want me to take |
| 18:47.23 | Jayce | and yet, there is too much to do |
| 18:47.41 | RyanE | Jayce: been there, done that. |
| 18:49.52 | goozbach | Jayce: take it! |
| 18:50.01 | goozbach | get thee out of the state, go camping |
| 18:50.06 | goozbach | play paintball |
| 18:50.15 | Jayce | but REASONS |
| 18:50.18 | Jayce | things to do |
| 18:50.58 | cjcothran | ok, I know there's a way to useradd a list instead of useradd user1; useradd user2; etc |
| 18:51.04 | goozbach | things will keep |
| 18:51.07 | cjcothran | or rather, I don't know, but I highly suspect |
| 18:51.21 | goozbach | cjcothran: addusers |
| 18:51.40 | cjcothran | hmm, didn't tab complete |
| 18:51.41 | goozbach | takes a c(olon)sv IIRC |
| 18:51.42 | cjcothran | you mean adduser? |
| 18:51.46 | goozbach | doh yeah |
| 18:51.51 | Jayce | goozbach: the world will not take over itself in a way I approve of if I'm not here.... |
| 18:51.53 | Jayce | :) |
| 18:52.13 | cjcothran | reads the man page to find the proper syntax for adding multipleusers |
| 18:52.33 | goozbach | cjcothran: it's been a bit since I've used that |
| 18:52.42 | cjcothran | np, I can read man pages :) |
| 18:52.47 | cjcothran | i'm not skurred |
| 18:52.48 | goozbach | now if I needed to do it I'd write a simple ansible playbook with a list |
| 18:53.00 | cjcothran | well, I haven't been authorized to automate yet |
| 18:53.56 | cjcothran | hmm.. newusers? |
| 18:54.03 | cjcothran | newusers takes a file |
| 18:54.26 | cjcothran | http://www.thegeekscope.com/create-multiple-users-in-linux-using-newusers-command/ |
| 18:55.39 | goozbach | that's the one |
| 18:55.58 | cjcothran | then you were correct with the plurality :) |
| 18:56.32 | goozbach | told you it'd been a while |
| 18:57.31 | cjcothran | hmm.. I wonder if I can also use it to create my groups |
| 18:58.27 | goozbach | man page! |
| 18:58.29 | goozbach | :) |
| 18:58.40 | cjcothran | already there, duh |
| 18:58.52 | cjcothran | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:58.54 | cjcothran | :-p |
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| 19:02.38 | cjcothran | "If this field is empty, a new group will be created with the name of the user and a GID will be automatically defined by newusers to |
| 19:02.38 | cjcothran | be used as the primary group ID for the user and as the GID for the new group." |
| 19:05.50 | *** join/#utah tristanbob_l (~tristanbo@137.190.208.10) |
| 19:07.13 | cjcothran | question: usermod man page tells me that -g assigns inital and -G assigns supplementary but that -G removes from any existing groups unless -a is used |
| 19:07.39 | cjcothran | therefore, what happens in the following example? usermod -g foo -G bar yomomma |
| 19:08.06 | cjcothran | from the way I read the man page, I imagine it assigns to foo, but then removes from foo and assigns to bar |
| 19:08.19 | cjcothran | in the end yomomma is only part of group bar |
| 19:08.26 | goozbach | did you try it? |
| 19:08.30 | cjcothran | lolno |
| 19:08.36 | goozbach | give it a shot |
| 19:08.36 | cjcothran | I like to speculate and theorize a lot first :) |
| 19:09.00 | cjcothran | how do I view user properties? |
| 19:09.09 | goozbach | getent passwd |
| 19:09.15 | goozbach | id <username> |
| 19:09.18 | goozbach | who |
| 19:09.20 | goozbach | w |
| 19:09.30 | goozbach | and a bunch more |
| 19:10.05 | cjcothran | ok, yeah I see two GIDs when using getent |
| 19:10.29 | cjcothran | thanks :) |
| 19:18.23 | jxqz | `w` is my fav |
| 19:19.05 | jxqz | and nobody uses it |
| 19:21.48 | goozbach | last is a good one |
| 19:30.32 | cjcothran | yeah I like the formatting of the output for w better than who now that I'm looking at the two |
| 19:34.54 | *** join/#utah kendsnyder (~Adium@67.214.245.39) |
| 19:36.18 | cjcothran | oh hey, so what tool can I use to figure out what name is associated with a GID? |
| 19:36.51 | fungus | getent group GID |
| 19:37.12 | goozbach | getent |
| 19:37.28 | goozbach | getent is the best answer to any user acct stuf |
| 19:37.30 | goozbach | stuff |
| 19:37.34 | goozbach | esp if you're just learning |
| 19:37.44 | cjcothran | ok cool, I'll check the man page |
| 19:37.47 | goozbach | as it won't lead you astray once you get into directory services |
| 19:38.53 | cjcothran | ok I think I can safely assume that getent group gives me <group name>:x:<GID>: |
| 19:38.57 | cjcothran | of all the groups |
| 19:39.25 | goozbach | yup |
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| 19:40.06 | cjcothran | now I can getent passwd | grep $GID|$GID |
| 19:40.08 | cjcothran | :) |
| 19:40.22 | cjcothran | and that should give me all the users I want to add using newusers on the new machine |
| 19:40.30 | cjcothran | oh wait |
| 19:40.48 | cjcothran | I'll then need to sed the GID in the new file to match the GID of the same group on the new machine |
| 19:40.54 | cjcothran | I feel like I'm thinking like a sysadmin |
| 19:40.57 | cjcothran | am I doing it right? |
| 19:41.12 | cjcothran | or I could just manually type in all the information |
| 19:41.18 | cjcothran | but who does that, really? ;) |
| 19:42.41 | cjcothran | damnit. I forgot how to say OR in grep |
| 19:44.03 | cjcothran | oh der |
| 19:44.06 | cjcothran | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:44.14 | cjcothran | I tried 'term'|'term' |
| 19:44.22 | cjcothran | forgot it needs to be escaped |
| 19:45.37 | cjcothran | omg I love linux |
| 19:45.42 | cjcothran | I don't even need to copy paste |
| 19:48.10 | cjcothran | I can just getent passwd | grep 'GID\|GID' > scp user@host1:cat$(getent passwd | grep 'GID\|GID') user@host:file2 |
| 19:48.13 | cjcothran | would that work? |
| 19:48.16 | cjcothran | whoops |
| 19:48.29 | cjcothran | ignore the first part. start at the scp |
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| 20:08.40 | levi | BTW, people who are interested in Unix configuration management might find this interesting: http://augeas.net/ |
| 20:09.09 | levi | It's also an example of a practical application of some recent and interesting CS research. |
| 20:09.27 | goozbach | had heard of that, never looked into it |
| 20:09.28 | goozbach | interesting |
| 20:09.48 | cjcothran | unix? or *nix in general? |
| 20:09.50 | levi | It's based on the concept of 'lenses' |
| 20:09.58 | levi | *nix in general. |
| 20:11.06 | levi | It provides a centralized hierarchical configuration database, but the back-end is just the standard native text-based config files of the various system components. |
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| 20:44.39 | jxqz | that's cool |
| 20:45.36 | *** join/#utah pdayton (~pjdayton@67.21.63.136) |
| 20:49.58 | jxqz | levi's always bringing up stuff like, 'the most skilled computer technologists out there are using this stuff, but you could definitely magnify the dimensionality of your wizardry if you used <crazy esoterically way different implementation of intellectually exotic superior ideas>, but I've moved past all that, like, months ago anyway' |
| 20:55.43 | RyanE | heh |
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| 21:23.33 | sontek | ansible is the solution, stop looking!! |
| 21:24.48 | Migs | https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/8068683520/h4AA14D71/ |
| 21:24.50 | Migs | BREAKING NEWS. |
| 21:29.19 | Migs | now THAT is the ultimate troll |
| 21:36.12 | jxqz | eh |
| 21:36.16 | jxqz | salt is where it's at! |
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| 22:31.40 | cjcothran | hmm |
| 22:32.03 | cjcothran | I want to use both google activesync and an exchange account in my outlook 2013 |
| 22:32.12 | cjcothran | in the same profile |
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| 23:03.22 | cjcothran | wait. where do I know the name Brandon Chestnut from |
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