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| 01:55.24 | jxqz | ~napoleon levi |
| 01:55.24 | infobot | ACTION takes levi's girlfriend to the mall for glamor shots |
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| 03:02.04 | ldav15 | ~slashdot |
| 03:05.01 | ldav15 | I feel an app coming on: Rats near me |
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| 15:18.53 | jxqz | ~nacho |
| 15:18.53 | infobot | Tonight I wrestle the seven strongest men in town, maybe the world. |
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| 16:21.10 | Migs | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgIz1Add98s |
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| 16:56.11 | metacortex | join #thetransistor |
| 16:58.36 | fungus | don't do it. it's a trap |
| 16:58.36 | jima | FAIL |
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| 17:02.11 | metacortex | haha |
| 17:02.13 | metacortex | oh well |
| 17:02.51 | metacortex | my / button is broken at times |
| 17:04.40 | jima | that reminds of of the time a rather clueful dane typo'd / as 7 while typing a command |
| 17:04.58 | jima | he then asked me what character shared the / key on US keyboards |
| 17:05.04 | jima | i responded: ? |
| 17:05.11 | jima | he rephrased the question |
| 17:05.19 | jima | again, i responded: ? |
| 17:05.29 | jima | i forget how long i kept him going |
| 17:05.51 | jlp_znc | :-) |
| 17:06.06 | jima | poor guy |
| 17:06.23 | jima | i was such a jerk...still am, really. |
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| 17:10.56 | jima | DZb1gl3r: is that qmoe? |
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| 17:14.39 | DZb1gl3r | jima my work isp is comcast business :/ |
| 17:14.40 | fadein | wow, the Danish keyboard would suck to code on |
| 17:15.11 | fadein | what with all of the braces accessible by AltGr, all with the right hand |
| 17:15.12 | jima | DZb1gl3r: odd, you're hitting freenode from a centurylink ip...i have a nearby block |
| 17:15.42 | jima | just saw the ip and it looked mostly familiar :-) |
| 17:15.44 | DZb1gl3r | it is through the webchat |
| 17:16.03 | DZb1gl3r | are you in AF? |
| 17:16.22 | jima | that circuit is in slc proper |
| 17:16.41 | jima | off of slc-edge-10 i guess |
| 17:16.55 | DZb1gl3r | ah |
| 17:17.19 | jima | i have two circuits off of slc-edge-10 right now, i guess |
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| 17:31.58 | DZb1gl3r | jima I was wrong, that is no longer true, looks like it is qmoe |
| 17:32.19 | jima | how bad is it when a stranger knows before you do? :-) |
| 17:32.45 | DZb1gl3r | shhh |
| 17:32.52 | DZb1gl3r | hadn't looked in a month |
| 17:33.14 | jima | to be fair, i am a netadmin |
| 17:33.16 | jima | for now |
| 17:33.35 | yukaia-work | bawk bawk :p |
| 17:33.38 | jima | muses over sending this job psoting to the mailing list |
| 17:33.43 | jima | posting, even |
| 17:34.01 | DZb1gl3r | lol |
| 17:36.15 | youtah | http://www.ustream.tv/channel/euromajdan/pop-out << Ukraine protest being streamed live. |
| 17:36.59 | jima | what's the saying? "the revolution will be televised?" |
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| 18:14.31 | jlp_znc | interesting, TigerDirect now accepts bitcoin as payment |
| 18:27.51 | jxqz | Beethoven concerto nr.3 für pianoforte |
| 18:28.05 | jxqz | with Glenn Gould at the keyboard |
| 18:28.10 | jxqz | magnificent |
| 18:28.37 | RyanE | at first glance I read "Glenn Beck" at the keyboard. Man, i need me some reading glasses... :) |
| 18:32.58 | jxqz | ooooooh, tis die Berliner Philharmoniker mit Herbert von Karajan |
| 18:33.03 | jxqz | live recording, even better |
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| 18:46.02 | ldav15 | Glenn Gould is great. I love his Bach recordings. |
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| 19:09.53 | rsimpkins | Oh man. It has been too long since I've done this. I recall a FOSS tool that would dump the changes in a text file (like a log) so you could get the new lines from the log on each execution of the program. |
| 19:09.59 | rsimpkins | It was really simple, but I can't recall the name. |
| 19:10.01 | rsimpkins | Anyone? |
| 19:10.16 | levi | tail? |
| 19:10.33 | rsimpkins | No, it would only print just the lines that were added since last execution. |
| 19:11.08 | levi | Sorry, beats me. |
| 19:11.27 | rsimpkins | Yeah, it has been a few years. Most people are using more advanced log analyzers these days. |
| 19:12.06 | levi | I never really got more advanced than grep and tail. |
| 19:12.37 | levi | I can see a sysadmin wanting more advanced log analysis, though. :) |
| 19:13.03 | rsimpkins | Yes, tail+grep x 30,000 machines == insanity. |
| 19:16.14 | goozbach | rsimpkins: watch can do somethign like that |
| 19:16.20 | goozbach | but not sure it can do it into a log file |
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| 19:23.31 | fungus | rsimpkins, I know what you are talking about it. I used it at a previous job years ago. Can't remember the name either. |
| 19:25.07 | goozbach | git? |
| 19:25.09 | goozbach | :) |
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| 19:29.11 | rsimpkins | I can't recall. I thought it was logtail, but reviewing that I'm not sure it was. |
| 19:29.47 | rsimpkins | Long story short - logs suck. Application engineers, please never write any log output. Find a better way to do this please. |
| 19:30.27 | fungus | You could hook your syslog up to a different service, ala splunk or something similar. |
| 19:30.42 | rsimpkins | We need RH to build an event management system in RHEL 8, and then force rsyslog to dump logs in to that event system. |
| 19:31.05 | goozbach | rsimpkins: tried logstash/kabana splunk or the like? |
| 19:31.42 | rsimpkins | Yeah, we use those tools often. I was trying to recall a super simple tool I used a long time ago to solve a similar but non-loggy problem. |
| 19:32.03 | rsimpkins | Events + time series data == awesomeness. |
| 19:33.16 | rsimpkins | goozbach: https://metrics.librato.com/share/dashboards/tk6luin9 zoom out to 3-7 days or so. You'll see my low-tech event+time series stuff at work. |
| 19:33.21 | levi | Yeah, a publish/subscribe system for programs to publish internal events sounds like the optimal way to do things. |
| 19:34.08 | goozbach | rsimpkins: the graylog sysstem has a library for doing something similar to that |
| 19:34.09 | fungus | rsimpkins, http://linux.die.net/man/8/logtail |
| 19:34.12 | fungus | that's it. |
| 19:34.12 | goozbach | don't recall it's name |
| 19:34.46 | goozbach | gelf http://graylog2.org/gelf |
| 19:34.47 | levi | Logs suck even for developers. The right logging stuff is never turned on, and there's always too much of the wrong stuff. :P |
| 19:34.55 | rsimpkins | fungus: Ahh, yes. It was logtail. I must have been finding some other project named logtail that didn't do what I thought it did. |
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| 19:35.41 | rsimpkins | I would love to get some local folks together to talk about this at Adobe. |
| 19:35.47 | rsimpkins | We have some ideas, but not many solutions. |
| 19:35.59 | rsimpkins | I'm sure the saltstack guys would want to listen. |
| 19:36.37 | goozbach | I finally understand what you meant by talking about the last thing to change since last read |
| 19:37.13 | levi | I know that the Harman Automotive guys have a pretty advanced debug data gathering system, but it's also very custom and tied to their C++ framework. |
| 19:37.36 | rsimpkins | levi: I'd love to hear more about it. |
| 19:38.44 | rsimpkins | The app knows every exception, yet we have all these external systems looking for problems. The app knows first. |
| 19:38.55 | rsimpkins | Why not have the app tell us when things bust? |
| 19:39.32 | rsimpkins | Doing the nagios thing at Adobe's scale is, in my opinion, a non-optimal solution. |
| 19:42.45 | levi | Well, there's a whole field of software products designed to deal with that sort of thing. |
| 19:42.57 | levi | "Enterprise Messaging Middleware" |
| 19:43.16 | levi | Stuff like AMQP and the various non-standardized frameworks like it. |
| 19:43.36 | rsimpkins | Yup. All good stuff. |
| 19:44.29 | levi | I can't really say much beyond that such pieces of a solution exist, as I don't do much work in that area. |
| 19:51.12 | levi | Ideally you'd want some sort of formalized protocol for publishing the data feeds available from your program in a self-describing sort of way, including a classification of typical kinds of data feeds. You'd build a library (or one per language family) that manages all the messaging stuff and the management protocol, and has a log-style interface for the programmer (possibly including some automatic tracing features for call traces if |
| 19:51.12 | levi | such a thing can be done automatically by the language). |
| 19:52.28 | levi | Then you can instrument absolutely everything for debug builds, and have production builds only disable the most performance-impairing instrumentation, and only ever have to look at instrumentation data you're interested in. |
| 19:52.40 | goozbach | for smaller shops I've done that with munin |
| 19:52.45 | goozbach | build custom graphs |
| 19:52.56 | goozbach | I'd probabally tie graphite into it now days |
| 19:55.49 | levi | I'd probably build such a thing with ZeroMQ and MessagePack if I were to do it today. |
| 19:56.47 | levi | Looks like someone else thought of it first: http://fluentd.org/ |
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| 20:36.24 | klys | ever had to use gcc 2.x to compile stuff? it's disappearing from djgpp. find existing mirrirs of gcc2723b.zip and gcc295b.zip while you can. |
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| 20:39.45 | youtah | jlp_znc, did I see that Tiger Direct accepts bitcoins? Woo Hoo! |
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| 20:39.58 | jlp_znc | yep |
| 20:40.04 | youtah | So awesome |
| 20:40.09 | youtah | I feel so relevant! |
| 20:40.33 | jlp_znc | http://www.tigerdirect.com/bitcoin/indexus.asp |
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| 21:02.22 | RyanE | What you guys were discussing reminded me of the statsd/Graphite type of thing. |
| 21:02.46 | RyanE | statsd would be pretty lightweight, and if no one is listening, you don't really care. |
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| 22:00.54 | youtah | https://twitter.com/unculturedswine/status/426473356079017984/photo/1 |
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| 22:34.19 | levi | RyanE: Well, there's usually some runtime overhead involved in generating events, so I would strongly prefer a framework that allows them to be enabled/disabled dynamically in a way that makes the disabled state very cheap. |
| 22:34.48 | goozbach | like dtrace? |
| 22:35.26 | levi | Probably like that. But hooked into a networked event management system. |
| 22:37.02 | RyanE | levi: isn't sending UDP packets about as overhead-free as the alternatives? |
| 22:39.07 | levi | No; you have to build UDP packets and then send them, which wastes memory, CPU, and network resources. |
| 22:39.31 | levi | I want to have LOTS of things intstrumented, and have that instrumentation be *extremely cheap* when disabled. |
| 22:39.50 | levi | And then be able to flip it on for very specific things *at runtime*. |
| 22:40.29 | levi | And then have it still be relatively cheap; at that point UDP is fine, although not always the choice I'd want. |
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| 23:35.39 | jlp_znc | levi: the only thing you miss out with that is getting history. ideally, each machine would track some history for everything you have instrumented and be able to cough it up on demand. of course, retaining history does add some cost to the monitoring, but it's still very needed when something goes kerplunk. you want to be able to look back and see 1) what did it look like when everything was normal and 2) when did it start to go kerplunk. |