| 00:06.11 | fungus | http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/redhat-centos-linux-yum-update-exclude-packages/ |
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| 00:36.18 | hjp_beta | fungus: I know about all those ... none of those modify yum.conf to add an exclude line to the main section. |
| 00:37.12 | hjp_beta | well, except for the instruction to manually edit the yum.conf file. |
| 00:37.51 | fungus | sed can do it |
| 00:39.22 | hjp_beta | I know, and I already have a function that does it for me. But I want to know how come I can't do "yum --setopt'exclude=apache*'" |
| 00:39.43 | hjp_beta | or even "yum --setopt='main.exclude=apache*'" |
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| 00:39.58 | hjp_beta | or yum-config-manager |
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| 08:55.07 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds | OpenWest Conference sometime 2014! openwest.org | https://fiber.google.com/cities/provo/ |
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| 09:02.39 | *** topic/#utah is Utah related discussion including user groups | logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | See also ##lds | OpenWest Conference sometime 2014! openwest.org | https://fiber.google.com/cities/provo/ |
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| 18:44.02 | youtah | lol, I uploaded a photo to G+ and they "auto awesomed" my photo http://i.imgur.com/IGPA89U.gif |
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| 19:24.43 | keldwud | was one degree this morning :) my daughter snapped at me when I told her her tiny little light hoodie wasn't warm enough and that it was too cold outside |
| 19:24.48 | keldwud | gotta love kids |
| 19:24.57 | keldwud | "honey, it's way too cold to wear your hoodie" |
| 19:25.01 | keldwud | NO IT'S NOT!!! |
| 19:32.46 | goozbach | -19 in milford this mornin |
| 19:32.58 | goozbach | Its near 75 in Atlanta however! |
| 19:40.13 | fozzmoo | http://is.gd/JceQIl |
| 19:40.45 | fozzmoo | youtah: Mesmerizing. |
| 19:41.13 | youtah | LOL fozzmoo |
| 19:41.28 | youtah | My wife go mad at me for calling my oldest Spawn[0] on Facebook |
| 19:41.34 | youtah | "You start with one!" |
| 19:41.41 | youtah | No honey, you start with Zero |
| 20:02.12 | d3c4f | youtah, that's awesome |
| 20:02.21 | d3c4f | and you are correct. ALWAYS zero-index |
| 20:12.13 | levi | Unless you are using a one-indexed system, of course. :P |
| 20:12.55 | d3c4f | levi, that is blasphemy! |
| 20:13.13 | levi | I'm a blasphemous kind of guy, then. |
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| 20:14.58 | levi | 0 is the natural starting point for additive indexing, because it's the identity for the addition monoid, but 1 is natural for multiplicative things because it's the identity for the product monoid. |
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| 20:16.55 | d3c4f | levi, I always feel a little dumber when you talk. It's not that I don't understand what you say. It's that you have an articulate low level understanding of everything programming-related. |
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| 20:21.09 | levi | Well, that last thing I said was meant to be opaque and dense-sounding, to counteract the 'religious' aspect. But normally I want the things I say to help people understand things better rather than make them feel stupid! :( |
| 20:21.21 | Tene | http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD08xx/EWD831.html |
| 20:22.03 | levi | Heh. EWD is best quoted selectively. Very few people agree with *everything* he has to say about programming. |
| 20:22.14 | Tene | Heh heh heh. |
| 20:23.39 | d3c4f | :D |
| 20:23.39 | levi | Really, I think the fight over indexing comes down to human factors and the difference between ordinal and cardinal numbering and the common conversational use of them. |
| 20:26.42 | Tene | levi: Any idea what he's talking about in the trailing parenthetical, "Also the "End of ..." convention..."? |
| 20:27.37 | levi | Tene: I think the 'End of remark' thing might have been introduced by the transcription from EWD's handwritten notes. |
| 20:28.26 | levi | Oh, now that I read the final thing, that's not the case at all. |
| 20:29.30 | fugue88 | Why does a Pascal program end with "End."? Isn't the end of the file enough? ;P |
| 20:29.31 | levi | I am not certain about it, but I assume he's introduced them as a notational convention for his writing to indicate the end of whatever document structure element he's using. Sort of a long-form HTML close tag. |
| 20:29.44 | Tene | Hmm. |
| 20:30.31 | levi | His point, based on the example of the examination, is that the end of a page is often ambiguous; if there's no 'end of ...' at the end of the page, then you know to look for the continuation. |
| 20:31.13 | fugue88 | Seems to me that Dijkstra was very much in the camp of being specific in code, not leaving anything to ambiguity. I think that's spilling over into his writing, here, possibly inspired by conventions in certain languages, |
| 20:31.22 | fugue88 | and certainly pseudo code as he wrote it. |
| 20:32.32 | fugue88 | Not that the approach is unique to him, by any means. Articles in papers, magazines, etc. are often terminated with some little symbol. Forgot what it's called, maybe French for flower? |
| 20:32.33 | levi | fugue88: Indeed, he is a strong believer in formality. |
| 20:32.47 | levi | fleur-de-lis? |
| 20:34.12 | fugue88 | That'd be it, not sure if it's the right one though. |
| 20:34.33 | fugue88 | As in, that's the French term I was thinking of. Not sure if I was thinking of the right term. :) |
| 20:36.59 | levi | So, my point about the cardinal/ordinal problem is that our language strongly links the cardinal and ordinal forms of numbers. When you see the cardinal '1', you think of the ordinal 'first'. '2' is linked to 'second', etc. But if you index or number things from 0, you break the correspondence. If you are very formal in your thinking, as EWD advocates, this is not a problem; natural language is irrelevant to formal systems, and |
| 20:36.59 | levi | correspnodences are distracting and misleading anyway. :P |
| 20:37.24 | fugue88 | ha! |
| 20:38.36 | levi | But very few people approach math or programming with the formality that EWD advocates, because it's hard and breaks intuition, which whatever EWD thinks about it is often very valuable for solving problems, even if it does occasionally introduce problems as well. |
| 20:38.43 | fugue88 | Well, "tombstone" might be the term I was thinking. But this is a distraction. And vanity and vexation of spirit. |
| 20:40.23 | levi | This is probably his most famous 'rant' about the subject: http://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/EWD10xx/EWD1036.html |
| 20:42.51 | levi | For better or worse, both academic and industrial computing have diverged so much from EWD's concept of how it should be done that taking his advice without properly understanding the contextual framework from which he offered it is as likely to be harmful as helpful. |
| 20:45.12 | Tene | unless you're just trying to win fake internet points. |
| 20:45.47 | fugue88 | Tene++ |
| 20:45.58 | fugue88 | ~Tene++ |
| 20:46.16 | Tene | Such points. So validation. |
| 20:46.24 | fugue88 | ~validate Tene |
| 20:46.27 | fugue88 | Oh well. |
| 20:49.40 | keldwud | ohai |
| 20:49.50 | keldwud | I heard I could earn internet points here |
| 20:49.56 | fugue88 | ~keldwud++ |
| 20:49.57 | keldwud | how2plox |
| 20:50.00 | keldwud | woohoo! :) |
| 20:50.02 | keldwud | swoons |
| 20:50.03 | levi | I only win *real* internet points. ;) |
| 20:50.22 | fugue88 | ~levi++ |
| 20:50.24 | keldwud | and I didn't even have to show my boobies to get points |
| 20:50.29 | keldwud | fugue88++ |
| 20:50.34 | keldwud | ~fugue88++ |
| 20:50.50 | fugue88 | ~karma keldwud |
| 20:50.50 | infobot | keldwud has karma of 2 |
| 20:50.55 | fugue88 | \o/ |
| 20:51.03 | keldwud | wat? |
| 20:51.18 | keldwud | how can I only have 2 karma after, umm... five years? |
| 20:51.24 | Tene | I wonder if I'm still negative... |
| 20:51.26 | Tene | ~karma tene |
| 20:51.26 | infobot | tene has neutral karma |
| 20:51.34 | Tene | Huh. |
| 20:51.35 | keldwud | ~Tene-- |
| 20:51.38 | fugue88 | ~karma Tene |
| 20:51.38 | infobot | tene has karma of -1 |
| 20:51.41 | keldwud | there you go :) back to negative ;) |
| 20:51.48 | Tene | ... thanks ;) |
| 20:51.56 | keldwud | np |
| 20:52.22 | keldwud | I know we joke about imaginary internet points being imaginary |
| 20:52.42 | keldwud | but with bitcoin tips, those imaginary internet points start to become quite real |
| 20:53.32 | fugue88 | karma points are like the USD of the internet |
| 20:53.44 | benbernanke | ~Tene++ |
| 20:54.10 | fugue88 | Dude! Did you see that helicopter fly by and drop some karma? |
| 20:54.41 | keldwud | did it have a funky rotor? |
| 20:54.49 | keldwud | and go benbernankebenbernankebenbernake? |
| 20:55.04 | keldwud | I saw a helicoptor fly by and drop off santa at the university mall |
| 20:55.20 | keldwud | I didn't tell my daughter why we were there, it was a surprise to her |
| 20:55.23 | keldwud | and she flipped :) |
| 20:55.25 | keldwud | it was awesome |
| 20:55.45 | Tene | lying to kids about santa has always seemed super creepy to me |
| 20:56.10 | keldwud | yeah I feel the same |
| 20:56.17 | keldwud | but then I realized that it is only for a year or two |
| 20:56.29 | keldwud | and realized how much fun she would have with the fantasy |
| 20:56.36 | keldwud | I never reinforce it by telling her "santa this, santa that" |
| 20:56.51 | keldwud | but I did subscribe to the whole letting her see santa thing when I realized how happy it made her |
| 20:57.10 | keldwud | I mean, you see how happy it makes people to believe in jesus and we don't go around telling them that he isn't real or anything |
| 20:57.21 | keldwud | -erm |
| 20:57.28 | keldwud | retracts his last statement |
| 20:59.29 | Tene | After I had my crisis of faith, I felt rather betrayed that none of my nonreligious friends had tried to tell me that any sooner. |
| 21:00.30 | Tene | Objectively, I can certainly understand how that would be counterproductive for them in trying to maintain friendships in general, certainly. |
| 21:02.54 | keldwud | yeah, I have to tell my daughter not to go around telling people that |
| 21:03.06 | keldwud | it's ironic that I let her believe in santa clause but not jesus. |
| 21:03.28 | keldwud | could be because she kept telling me that jesus made penises and buildings and cars and streets |
| 21:04.51 | keldwud | and she would argue with me when I tried explaining things to her like science and engineering |
| 21:07.30 | Tene | Even worse was the feeling of betrayal from family and church leaders. I had believed them when they talked about the traditional lessons of praying to determine the truth of the religion, Moroni 10, Alma 32, etc. |
| 21:10.53 | Tene | I had been trying to do that for a couple of years, and it really wasn't working for me at all. I was terribly depressed, couldn't manage to hold my life together, and it was just overwhelming, so I spent about a week fasting, reading scripture, and praying. I didn't feel anything at all from the prayer, no answer or response or anything. I was very confused, and tried to talk to my bishop and other religious leaders about it, but the only ... |
| 21:10.59 | Tene | ... thing any of them would say to me was "you just need to pray more". |
| 21:11.39 | fozzmoo | Tene: You weren't praying enough. |
| 21:11.52 | Tene | Ah. Clearly. |
| 21:11.57 | Tene | ~fozzmoo++ |
| 21:13.07 | fozzmoo | I've had very few profound, inspiring prayerful moments in my life. You know, where you can say, with certainty, "my prayer was answered." |
| 21:20.10 | Tene | Hmm. I guess this is probably not very welcome to some people here. So, which license is more free, GPL or BSD? |
| 21:20.55 | goozbach | Tene: meh, we love you anyway! |
| 21:21.12 | goozbach | and the answer is DWTFYW license |
| 21:21.40 | goozbach | http://www.wtfpl.net/ |
| 21:22.22 | Tene | but... that's discouraged by the FSF in favour of the X11 license! |
| 21:23.57 | Tene | Surely you strictly follow all FSF recommendations, right? |
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| 21:25.31 | fungus | BSD is more free, but it doesn't do anything to protect the freedom of the downstream users. |
| 21:25.33 | ldav15_ | And the WTFPL is not OSI approved (redundant with the Fair License). |
| 21:29.11 | fungus | Tene, you need to pray so hard and so much that you have hallucinations of seeing God and Jesus. |
| 21:29.14 | fungus | ;) |
| 21:29.42 | Tene | fungus: I just said that I already tried that. |
| 21:30.15 | Tene | I guess I could try again with hallucinogens or something. |
| 21:30.32 | fungus | Yeah, then you can start your own church. |
| 21:30.58 | fungus | ducks |
| 21:31.14 | Tene | I don't want to start my own church. That would be way too much work. |
| 21:34.53 | youtah | Woo Hoo! It's supposed to get up to 27 degrees Saturday! |
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| 21:37.20 | goozbach | we're gonna lose 22deg in 24hrs on sat |
| 21:37.51 | Jayce^ | was -28 in town center by my house last night |
| 21:37.59 | Jayce^ | and am going camping by there tomorrow night :) |
| 21:38.43 | goozbach | why for? |
| 21:38.51 | Jayce^ | why not? |
| 21:40.34 | fungus | camping in town center? going to put up a tent on the sidewalk? |
| 21:40.58 | goozbach | what's in town center? |
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| 21:43.22 | Jayce^ | town center is closer to the valley we'll be going up |
| 21:45.39 | youtah | Sounds like a blast IMO |
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| 22:01.56 | rsimpkins | All - FYI. If you have a CentOS 6 system and an Intel NIC do NOT upgrade to CentOS 6.5 or the 2.6.32-431 kernel until you read this: http://bugs.centos.org/view.php?id=6810 |
| 22:02.09 | rsimpkins | Your server/system will start up, ping for a minute or so, then go bye-bye. |
| 22:09.40 | goozbach | dat nasty |
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| 22:34.34 | fozzmoo | https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1468525_697456190274303_1377741474_n.jpg |
| 22:45.37 | youtah | LOL fozzmoo |
| 22:46.02 | jnbek | fozzmoo, that's awesome, lol |
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