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| 00:10.34 | jxqz | hello! |
| 00:16.36 | klys | hello also |
| 00:19.47 | klys | bbl |
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| 15:48.15 | ldav15 | ~slashdot |
| 15:52.59 | ldav15 | Way to go MS. Don't you all want to code in your browser? |
| 15:59.10 | manithree | ldav15: Actually, lot's of people do, apparently: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5200949/browser-based-ides |
| 16:00.02 | manithree | MS is just following tail-lghts, as usual |
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| 16:08.59 | fadein | awesome! now I can be charged for my builds by the minute, *and* be subject to network inconsistencies! |
| 16:09.05 | fadein | It's like the best of both worlds! |
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| 16:23.37 | ldav15 | mainthree: I can see where having a browser based IDE would be useful for web applications. But it also seems to do C++, etc. too. |
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| 16:32.24 | manithree | ldav15: Right, I just couldn't resist the opportunity to throw one of Ballmer's anti Open Source outbursts back at him. Well, actually, at you. |
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| 16:35.57 | ldav15 | Then there's the whole VCS aspect. If their online VCS (if they have it) is anything like Office 365, it'll be like SourceSafe in the cloud (file locking, etc.). |
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| 16:49.07 | fadein | ldav15: they seem to be using Git for version control |
| 16:49.53 | fadein | ldav15: they even have a command line interface built in, and it doesn't look like it is running PowerShell |
| 16:50.12 | fadein | http://channel9.msdn.com/Series/Visual-Studio-Online-Monaco/First-Steps |
| 16:54.07 | jxqz | git?! |
| 16:54.12 | jxqz | haha |
| 16:55.06 | jxqz | a bunch of commie free programmers write the defacto rcs and even M$ uses it? |
| 16:55.18 | jxqz | remembers the git genesis |
| 16:55.30 | ink | i just won the battle yesterday to move from Perforce to git |
| 16:55.48 | ink | using Stash, no less |
| 16:55.52 | jxqz | Linus was using some proprietary rcs several years ago |
| 16:55.52 | fadein | in one of the videos on that channel9 page the guy demos their IDE in Chrome |
| 16:55.57 | ink | bitkeeper? |
| 16:56.00 | fozzmoo | BitWeaver |
| 16:56.01 | jxqz | yeah |
| 16:56.09 | fozzmoo | yeah, that one. :) |
| 16:57.00 | jxqz | anyway, Andrew Tridgell was working at/with(?) OSL or something and wanted a way to communicate with it by script |
| 16:57.06 | ink | yeah, Linus had some choice words for svn |
| 16:58.20 | jxqz | he found a neglected bitkeeper commandline and 'talked to the waiter' in the way that only Tridgell does. Evidently it had a 'help' command from which info he constructed his interface |
| 16:58.35 | jxqz | the bitkeeper guy got really mad |
| 16:58.51 | jxqz | and then Linus was like, 'screw it, we're making our own vcs' |
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| 16:59.12 | jxqz | (took his proverbial ball and went home) |
| 17:00.32 | jxqz | svn is what cvs should have been long before svn appeared |
| 17:01.47 | jxqz | but, now, death to all proprietary revision control systems |
| 17:03.38 | jxqz | baz/bzr, should have been it, but unfortunately suffered from the same overwrought yak shearing that often seems to plague gnu projects |
| 17:04.06 | jxqz | hurd, eh? har har |
| 17:04.41 | jxqz | emacs *0* point twenty-whatever |
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| 17:07.39 | jxqz | info *could* have been a great terminal document browser, for anyone with less than arcane UI fetish |
| 17:32.45 | jxqz | anyone want to protest the TPP meeting in SLC with me next week? |
| 17:33.17 | levi | info is just a dumb replacement for emacs for info-browsing. |
| 17:34.03 | jxqz | oh, yeah, I forgot about emacs the operating system :) |
| 17:34.27 | jxqz | a corral for all your gnus and yaks |
| 17:35.09 | jxqz | anyway, TPP |
| 17:35.16 | jxqz | come on, bring out the angst |
| 17:36.17 | jxqz | http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/54351480-82/corporations-tpp-foreign-trade.html.csp |
| 17:36.37 | jxqz | http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/11/01/national/tpp-bargaining-session-set-for-utah/ |
| 17:47.10 | romanovic | jxqz: TPP makes me want to cry |
| 17:47.22 | romanovic | http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131113/08405625230/tpp-ip-chapter-leaked-confirming-its-worse-than-acta.shtml |
| 17:48.17 | jxqz | well, we can show them that salt lake does not want any part of TPP in it's city |
| 17:49.12 | jxqz | run them out on rails |
| 17:49.14 | romanovic | sometimes I wonder if it will be easier to make a living in the future running a borderless business out in the intertubes. with bitcoin maybe. |
| 17:49.16 | jxqz | RoR |
| 17:49.46 | jxqz | now the FBI's going to bust me because I made a hyperbolic threat |
| 17:50.02 | Jayce^ | ~echelon fodder |
| 17:50.02 | infobot | i heard echelon fodder is Bush, Uranium, Dirty Bomb, Jihad, Allah Akbar, TNT, Rent a van, assassination , NSA, wiretaps, sleeper cell, suicide bomb, vest, Oklahoma City, Waco, revenge, anthrax, virgins, fuse, great celebration, July 4th, detcord, martyr, timer, backpack, subway. Ruby Ridge, or kill all infidels, or pressure cookers and backpacks |
| 17:50.07 | jxqz | haha |
| 17:50.27 | Jayce^ | always welcome here :) |
| 17:51.50 | jxqz | good thing I'm not in public school, where they have staff big brothering students' online activities |
| 17:53.04 | jxqz | it used to be funny, though |
| 17:53.09 | jxqz | until it started happening |
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| 18:25.13 | manithree | jxqz: is TPP really worth protesting at this point? |
| 18:35.07 | ElForesto | It's an abysmal treaty, but you'd do better to try lobbying your senator than march in the streets. They're the ones that actually vote on it. |
| 18:50.31 | manithree | ElForesto: Exactly. |
| 18:55.38 | ElForesto | Public protest is fun (I've done it a few times), but it usually doesn't accomplish much. |
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| 19:09.25 | jxqz | protesting energizes the people participating |
| 19:09.35 | jxqz | and also can get some publicity |
| 19:10.02 | jxqz | especially on something so big, I think there's potential for professional news attention |
| 19:11.21 | jxqz | you can also argue that ACTA wouldn't have fallen without the protests in Europe |
| 19:11.21 | jxqz | although there were many of them |
| 19:11.43 | ElForesto | It's hard to put that into terms that Joe Average would understand. We trounced SOPA/PIPA because "they want to shut off your Internet" is a really good sound bite. |
| 19:12.03 | jxqz | ElForesto: same thing for TPP |
| 19:12.05 | jxqz | and more |
| 19:12.24 | ink | Those laws' worst fears are if they actually pass |
| 19:12.34 | jxqz | haha |
| 19:13.15 | jxqz | it's all about money in the end though |
| 19:13.23 | jxqz | easy money for big moniers |
| 19:14.08 | jxqz | if it passed, they'd probably start going after easy targets, because there's no way they can acutally enforce their dystopic mania |
| 19:14.44 | jxqz | these are people who still think that google can just make things happen for them |
| 19:14.55 | ElForesto | That's the point of having a ton of laws. You can't possibly get perfect enforcement, but it's very handy for when someone becomes the target of your ire. |
| 19:15.08 | jxqz | and that's the danger |
| 19:15.23 | ElForesto | Look at the crap they pulled on Aaron Schwartz. He offended the wrong people and they dropped the hammer on him. |
| 19:15.33 | jxqz | it's not a step function to totalitarianism |
| 19:15.54 | jxqz | right, there's already enough bad laws |
| 19:17.01 | jxqz | to quote Larry, "there's already enough copyright law and precedent out there to criminalize everyone who uses the intarwebz" |
| 19:18.15 | ElForesto | It's because we don't expect judges to, well, judge. We need to have every single allowable and disallowable thing spelled out in excruciating detail. Heaven forbid a human is asked to use their best judgement when we can more-or-less automate the process, right? |
| 19:18.54 | jxqz | that and judges don't actually understand technology |
| 19:19.26 | ElForesto | They've gotten a little better. Oracle got smacked around pretty good for going after Google. |
| 19:19.28 | jxqz | it took me a few years to realize how profound that is |
| 19:20.02 | jxqz | I'm thinking about a recent report about the supreme court |
| 19:20.19 | jxqz | they were studying decisions with references to websites ... |
| 19:20.46 | jxqz | *URL*s in those most significant of documents |
| 19:20.58 | jxqz | many of which are now *broken* |
| 19:21.15 | jxqz | how did no one with a clue not tell them to not do that? |
| 19:21.48 | jxqz | at least, like screenshot and/or curate the relevant text |
| 19:22.03 | jxqz | and put it on your own server |
| 19:22.07 | ElForesto | To be fair, link rot is a pretty old problem. But yes, it is amazing they didn't think to make a local copy. |
| 19:22.38 | jxqz | well, I don't know if they did or did not make an official copy to go with the decision |
| 19:22.43 | jxqz | but still |
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| 20:11.55 | rsimpkin1 | This is messed up. I should NOT have a dentry cache size of nearly 2GB for a machine with less than 12,000 directories on it. |
| 20:12.35 | rsimpkin1 | At most I'm thinking a dentry cache size of less than 50M would cover every possible directory on the system... which would be dumb. Ideally it would use less than 1M. |
| 20:13.28 | ElForesto | Cache ALL THE THINGS! |
| 20:13.30 | rsimpkin1 | There have been a number of bugs squashed around dentry memory leaks lately. It has worked fine for over a decade. Who is the new maintainer of this code? |
| 20:13.42 | rsimpkin1 | They deserve public ridicule. |
| 20:14.18 | rsimpkin1 | ElForesto: Cache ALL THE THINGS EIGHTEEN TIMES! |
| 20:14.33 | klys | that's a feature |
| 20:14.42 | rsimpkin1 | You can never have enough memory leaks. |
| 20:14.48 | ElForesto | Yo dawg, we heard you like caching ALL THE THINGS... |
| 20:14.49 | rsimpkin1 | Please code more. |
| 20:16.11 | joshh | rsimpkin1: how did that come up? |
| 20:17.32 | rsimpkin1 | joshh: I have leaky memory. Want to see? |
| 20:19.07 | joshh | don't we all |
| 20:19.28 | rsimpkin1 | joshh: https://metrics.librato.com/share/dashboards/tk6luin9 Look at breakout RAM and slab performance charts (yellow is dentry. The top blue line is total slab. |
| 20:19.58 | rsimpkin1 | ). Might need to play with the date ranges to see the interesting play. |
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| 20:21.29 | rsimpkin1 | er, sorry. light blue line and dark blue line. yellow is number of objects. |
| 20:22.37 | jlp_znc | what id you do at about 12:52? close chrome? |
| 20:22.40 | jxqz | ~napoleon |
| 20:22.40 | infobot | There's like a buttload of gangs at this school. One of them kept wanting me to join because I'm pretty good with a bowstaff. |
| 20:23.05 | jxqz | ~napoleon |
| 20:23.05 | infobot | Girls only like guys who have great skills: Nun-chuck skills, bow hunting skills, computer hacking skills. |
| 20:23.22 | jxqz | ~napoleon rsimpkin1 |
| 20:23.22 | infobot | ACTION takes rsimpkin1's girlfriend to the mall for glamor shots |
| 20:23.29 | joshh | ive never had to think about dentry before |
| 20:23.35 | rsimpkin1 | woots. my nick is nasty. |
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| 20:24.06 | rsimpkins | joshh: Bugs are painful. |
| 20:24.37 | rsimpkins | joshh: I don't have the chops to write the code that can walk the dentry tree to see what is gumming up the works. I do know I do not need anywhere close to 25 GIGs of dentry. |
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| 20:44.34 | jxqz | dentistry? |
| 20:47.48 | klys | "directory entry" |
| 20:49.51 | jxqz | director of dentists |
| 20:54.09 | fugue88 | joshh: I don't know about cache dentry's, but I have a few directories (that aren't quite config'd right) and fill up with tons of files, then the directories themselves take a lot of space storing all the entries on disk. |
| 20:54.16 | fugue88 | find -type d -xdev -printf "%k\t%P\n" |sort -n |tail |
| 20:54.23 | fugue88 | That will find the biggest offenders. |
| 20:54.46 | romanovic | jxqz will take this to absurdity! |
| 20:54.56 | romanovic | thinks jxqz = anti-dentite |
| 20:55.46 | jxqz | al dentist |
| 20:55.49 | fugue88 | romanovic: I saw the extreme right-wing anti-dentite hyperbole he was throwing around. He'll be picked up by the FBI now for sure. |
| 20:56.00 | jlp_znc | rsimpkins: what type of file system is this, anyway? |
| 20:56.51 | fugue88 | rsimpkins: Oops, I meant to address that stuff to you ^^^ . |
| 20:59.34 | jxqz | haha |
| 21:00.12 | jlp_znc | hmmm, 500G portable HD for $15 after rebate. even though I hate rebates, I just might have to pull the trigger on this one. |
| 21:01.27 | jlp_znc | it also comes with a copy of total defense premium internet security that I can throw away |
| 21:02.05 | Migs | 500GB? That's nothing. That won't even store anything. |
| 21:02.21 | jlp_znc | it'll store 500 times more than a 1G drive! |
| 21:03.00 | jlp_znc | gotta look at the rebate terms, though... |
| 21:03.23 | jlp_znc | hell, even if I threw away the 500G drive and just used the enclosure it might be a win. |
| 21:09.26 | rsimpkins | fugue88: Did that. I have less than 15k directories system wide. |
| 21:09.36 | rsimpkins | jlp_znc: ext4 |
| 21:10.08 | fugue88 | rsimpkins: It's not a question of how many directories. My /tmp, the directory itself, not its contents, was over 20MiB at one point, as an example. |
| 21:10.32 | fugue88 | It had hundreds of thousands of files, and took over 30 minutes to `ls`, even unordered. |
| 21:10.48 | fugue88 | still needs to reconfigure that "session store"... |
| 21:11.17 | fugue88 | is a little fuzzy on the numbers, but that's the general idea |
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| 21:14.32 | jlp_znc | hmmm, rebate terms suck. $60 of the rebate is on total defense premium, which apparently must be activated. only $15 of the rebate is on the drive. |
| 21:20.55 | rsimpkins | fugue88: I don't think that's it. |
| 21:21.08 | Migs | https://onlycoin.com/ |
| 21:22.04 | fugue88 | snaps his fingers |
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| 21:25.10 | fugue88 | Migs: Cool. Gotta admit though, at the beginning I was thinking, "there are too many cards. I know, let's create another!" :) |
| 21:27.26 | harleypig_ | anyone know what's going on in Spanish Fork? |
| 21:27.44 | jxqz | spanish stuff? |
| 21:27.51 | harleypig_ | I just got a call from my kids school saying that there was an 'incident' at 4th East and Center and my kids wouldn't be allowed to walk home. |
| 21:27.51 | jxqz | forks? |
| 21:28.12 | jxqz | probably somebody with a marshmellow gun |
| 21:29.11 | harleypig_ | :] |
| 21:29.27 | harleypig_ | They're usually better than that. |
| 21:30.26 | jxqz | when my dad taught seminary many years ago in Arizona, his boss convinced him to get a rifle so he could connect better with the students |
| 21:31.38 | Jayce^ | ++ |
| 21:31.39 | jlp_znc | we had a gun club in my high school... people used to bring their guns to school all the time to show them off. |
| 21:32.48 | jlp_znc | http://www.gfps.k12.mt.us/cmr/ |
| 21:33.08 | jlp_znc | looks like now they have a model train club :-( |
| 21:34.57 | harleypig_ | what's wrong with a model train club? |
| 21:35.10 | jlp_znc | nothing, really, but the gun club was "better" |
| 21:35.13 | jxqz | not enough guns |
| 21:35.26 | jxqz | s/guns/gun cars/ |
| 21:35.32 | harleypig_ | you could mount a lot of gatling guns on train cars |
| 21:35.42 | harleypig_ | and missile launchers |
| 21:35.51 | harleypig_ | and pepper ball guns |
| 21:35.58 | jxqz | I saw a train go by a few months ago loaded completely with tanks |
| 21:36.12 | harleypig_ | now I have the a-team theme running through my head |
| 21:36.34 | jxqz | 'vote for Pedro' |
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| 21:55.10 | harleypig_ | http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/66955720953/ill-just-change-this-tunable |
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