| 00:00.47 | fungus | The Catholic church is taking specific actions to block their usage and is disseminating lies about them to discourage their use. |
| 00:01.00 | klys | again if your philosophy is utilitarianism and not a deontology, retake AHtg 100 at BYU and make sure you represent America's Founding Heritage. |
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| 00:04.33 | fungus | yousiry, Basically the LDS church has taken a middle road in that area. Not actively blocking their use/education, but not promoting it either. |
| 00:05.03 | youtah | ^ |
| 00:06.11 | fungus | ElForesto, but in the case when a person willfully chooses one of those choices, helping a person choose the lesser of the two evils is a good thing. |
| 00:07.13 | fungus | (usage of evil is only intended as a colloquialism, not absolute judgment) |
| 00:08.48 | yousiry | Its perhaps hard for me to be told that I'm evil |
| 00:09.10 | youtah | I dont think anyone has called you evil yousiry |
| 00:09.12 | yousiry | because I think of myself as someone who is filled with love, whose only purpose in life was to achieve love, and who feels love for so much of nature and the world and for everything else. |
| 00:11.22 | fungus | That's great. Good for you. LDS isn't for everyone. |
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| 00:11.52 | fungus | It at least requires a belief in an imaginary old white man in the sky. That's kind of hard for lots of people. |
| 00:11.56 | fungus | ;) |
| 00:11.57 | harleypig_ | yousiry: Great evil has been done with the best of intentions and great love. |
| 00:12.23 | youtah | excellent observation harleypig |
| 00:12.46 | yousiry | I think we certainly don't need the stigmatisation, the victimisation, that leads to the playground bullying when people saying you're disordered, morally evil individual. |
| 00:12.51 | yousiry | Thats really not nice. |
| 00:13.02 | yousiry | Its kind of cruel |
| 00:13.19 | ElForesto | If we're really going to educate people, they should be fully aware of the potential consequences of their actions. Even if you use a condom, the real-world risk of pregnancy and disease is MUCH higher than abstaining. And we're not even getting into non-physical consequences. |
| 00:13.37 | harleypig_ | yousiry: saying a church is being evil because it won't hand out condoms is just as condemnatory |
| 00:14.15 | fungus | ElForesto, right. I agree. |
| 00:14.24 | levi | Also, don't call things evil if you can't handle a discussion in which the word evil is used without assuming people are calling you evil. Which no one did. |
| 00:14.25 | youtah | especially considering the billions (literally) of dollars it spends on humanitarian aid world wide already yousiry |
| 00:14.41 | youtah | they can't do everything that everyone wants |
| 00:15.45 | harleypig_ | On a much more linuxy note ... I'm trying to create a tarball using --files-from but I need to include the directory the files are in for the filenames. E.g., I have a MANIFEST file where the relative location is '.' but I need the files to be stored as '<parent dir>/filename' and I can't figure out how to make that happen. |
| 00:15.57 | yousiry | It's perhaps unfair of me, as a gay man, to moan at this enormous institution. |
| 00:16.59 | yousiry | which has millions (?) of followers, each one of whom is under strict instructions to believe the dogmas of the church, but they may wrestle with them personally of course. |
| 00:17.56 | harleypig_ | "strict"? wth do you get strict from? otoh, how can you *not* believe the dogmas of a belief system if you believe in it? |
| 00:18.32 | klys | use individual symlinks for, e.g. ./usr, etc... |
| 00:18.40 | fungus | Yes, it's certainly not a perfect institution. I suggest finding your own path. |
| 00:18.50 | harleypig_ | and, as an aside, my favorite quote related to dogma: I'm sorry my karma ran over your dogma. |
| 00:19.12 | youtah | LOL |
| 00:19.16 | harleypig_ | klys: I'm not sure what you mean, or how that applies to my situation. |
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| 00:19.43 | klys | looking at --files-from where |
| 00:20.52 | klys | eg. ./usr -> /parent/usr |
| 00:22.07 | levi | Although the core beliefs of the LDS church are fairly set, as a whole it's a lot less dogmatic than many other churches. Members have a pretty wide lattitude in interpreting things for themselves. |
| 00:23.00 | yousiry | I have my own beliefs. |
| 00:23.11 | levi | As do we all. |
| 00:23.20 | harleypig_ | klys: hmmm ... --files-from MANIFEST, where MANIFEST has, one per line, 'bin/scriptx', 'bin/scripty', 'lib/dirname/module.pm', etc. |
| 00:23.31 | harleypig_ | I can't change the format. |
| 00:23.37 | yousiry | They are the belief in the Enlightenment, a belief in the eternal adventure of trying to discover moral truth in the world. |
| 00:24.28 | levi | That's great. |
| 00:24.38 | klys | I think you can, ie. use `sed` on it to replace common instances of bin and lib |
| 00:25.04 | klys | I mean bin/ and lib/ |
| 00:25.29 | fungus | harleypig_, sed 's/^/dir/' MANIFEST | tar --files-from - ... |
| 00:25.39 | fungus | is that an option for you? |
| 00:25.40 | klys | you can even replace the beginning of each line with some extra chars added |
| 00:25.41 | harleypig_ | well, I tried --transform 's#^#/dirname/#' but that just made it so nothing would be ... |
| 00:25.43 | levi | harleypig_: Write a perl script. :) |
| 00:25.49 | youtah | Zing! |
| 00:25.50 | harleypig_ | ohhh ... I didn't even think of that |
| 00:25.54 | harleypig_ | levi: heh |
| 00:25.58 | youtah | not really a zing |
| 00:25.59 | harleypig_ | It's a perl module too. :D |
| 00:26.00 | yousiry | It would be impertinent and wrong of me to express any antagonism towards any individual who wishes to find salvation in whatever form they wish to express it. |
| 00:26.04 | youtah | I just wanted to contribute |
| 00:26.11 | youtah | feel special |
| 00:26.12 | youtah | you know... |
| 00:26.15 | youtah | that kind of stuff |
| 00:26.26 | yousiry | That to me is sacrosanct as much as any article of faith is sacrosanct to anyone of any church or any faith in the world. |
| 00:26.37 | yousiry | It's very important. |
| 00:26.44 | harleypig_ | yousiry: I don't think it would be impertinent |
| 00:27.26 | fungus | yousiry, That's cool. Just find your own path. LDS isn't for you. |
| 00:27.41 | harleypig_ | and I'd feel antagonistic towards anyone who wished to sacrifice my life because of their religious beliefs |
| 00:29.00 | harleypig_ | fungus: that didn't work either, because it's looking for the files in the munged directory location |
| 00:29.13 | youtah | have you tried 42? |
| 00:29.23 | youtah | will see himself out |
| 00:29.26 | levi | I suppose it depends on what 'express any antagonism' really means. |
| 00:30.04 | klys | if antagonism is your religion, read the scriptures. |
| 00:30.05 | fungus | harleypig_, add a -C .. |
| 00:31.34 | youtah | You know what sounds amazing right now? Food. Dinner. Perhaps some cheese stuffed pasta shells with a delicious sauce |
| 00:31.50 | youtah | perhaps some hickory smoked bacon covered with pepper |
| 00:32.58 | yousiry | As for the billions the church gives to charity -- well the church could decide that all its power, and wealth, and hierarchy of priests could be sent back into the needing world, give that money away, and councentrate on the core of their belief, and then I would stand here and say its a force for good in the world, but untill that day, its not. |
| 00:33.01 | fungus | yousiry, perhaps religion itself isn't for you. Find your own spirituality, if any. |
| 00:33.20 | yousiry | concentrate* |
| 00:33.44 | harleypig_ | yousiry: wait ... because the church isn't focused on what you think it should be focused on, it's not a force for good? |
| 00:33.45 | youtah | side note, the LDS church doesn't have a hierarchy of priests |
| 00:33.50 | klys | ...unpaid clergy... |
| 00:33.53 | harleypig_ | youtah: yes it does |
| 00:34.26 | harleypig_ | he used the wrong name, but the church is hierarchical |
| 00:34.43 | youtah | well, okay, I guess it does, but not in the same sense as other churches |
| 00:34.50 | harleypig_ | and maybe he didn't use the wrong name ... aren't we priests and priestess of god? |
| 00:34.57 | levi | The LDS church does have a hierarchy of priests, but they are largely *already* 'in the needing world'. |
| 00:35.13 | fungus | harleypig_, no on the priestesses. |
| 00:35.26 | fungus | Women are disallowed holding the priesthood. |
| 00:35.36 | fungus | explicitly |
| 00:36.39 | ElForesto | yousiry: The "give away all of your possessions" argument is ridiculous. The Church invests the money into philanthrophic enterprises like farms and ranches. Those employ people and the output is used to help people who don't have food. |
| 00:36.57 | ElForesto | That's like saying a university should give away all of the money in the endowment fund instead of using it to earn more money to help more people. |
| 00:38.48 | yousiry | Its the only owner of the truth for the millions that it likes to boast about, because those millions are uneducated and poor, as again it likes to boast about. |
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| 00:39.11 | youtah | Where did you say you were from again yousiry ? |
| 00:39.23 | yousiry | England. |
| 00:39.41 | levi | yousiry: For someone who talks about love and being nice to people, you do seem to be awfully keen on picking a fight. |
| 00:39.44 | youtah | but you volunteer at a hospital in Africa? |
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| 00:40.21 | yousiry | I've made three documentary films on the subject of AIDS in Africa. |
| 00:40.57 | youtah | yousiry, check out http://ldscharities.org/where-we-are?lang=eng |
| 00:41.07 | harleypig_ | fungus: http://www.lds.org/ensign/1989/02/the-restoration-of-major-doctrines-through-joseph-smith-priesthood-the-word-of-god-and-the-temple |
| 00:41.42 | klys | are you involved with the ONE group |
| 00:42.05 | youtah | Keep in mind that even the LDS church has a finite amount of resources and cannot distribute everything to everyone, everywhere in the world. |
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| 00:42.56 | yousiry | klys, the hospitalities company? No. |
| 00:43.11 | klys | k |
| 00:43.53 | klys | do you represent a similar liberal-leaning organization |
| 00:45.19 | fungus | klys, Ouch, that sounds like you are using the word liberal in place of an obscenity. |
| 00:46.12 | klys | well I am familiar with the cause, and liberals are doing it. |
| 00:46.34 | fungus | lol |
| 00:46.46 | fungus | at you, not with you. |
| 00:48.46 | yousiry | I represent no one. I personally grew up a Tory, I spent my childhood summers at Conservative fetes and whist drives and dinner dances. |
| 00:49.00 | yousiry | I thought anyone who voted Liberal, let alobe Labour, was creepty weird and horrifying. |
| 00:49.08 | yousiry | At some point the wind changed. |
| 00:49.38 | fungus | lol, yeah, growing up is quite an adventure. |
| 00:49.55 | yousiry | The wind's name was Margaret Thatcher, but we won't go into ancient history. |
| 00:50.25 | yousiry | All the vices I once attributed to Labour - vulgarity, meanness of spirit, lack of warmth, sympathy of lightness of touch -- I now attribute to the Conservatives. |
| 00:51.00 | yousiry | I went so far as to join the Labour Party. |
| 00:52.05 | yousiry | However one thing has remained constant in my political affiliations, and that is a deep contempt and fear of tribalism. |
| 00:52.16 | fungus | Not an expert on UK gov't, but your David Cameron seems to be a bit of fresh air compared to most conservatives. IMHO. |
| 00:52.44 | klys | oh I didn't mean "the one group" hospitality I meant ONE.org |
| 00:54.55 | harleypig_ | “Forgive him, for he believes that the customs of his tribe are the laws of nature!” ― George Bernard Shaw |
| 00:55.02 | yousiry | When I meet a Labour voter who can only hiss, stamp and fume at any Tory, or a Conservative voter who can only jeer and condemn a Labour voter then I bridle, bristle and simply writhe with indignation |
| 00:55.41 | harleypig_ | yousiry: yet you apparently do the same with a religious organization that doesn't do what you think it should |
| 00:58.52 | klys | "should I stay or should I go?" |
| 01:00.51 | youtah | Alright, I am outta here. For real this time |
| 01:00.55 | youtah | Later! |
| 01:01.43 | harleypig_ | klys: damn you |
| 01:01.48 | harleypig_ | now I got to find that song |
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| 11:34.34 | klys | ~slashdot |
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| 16:02.40 | jlp_znc | wow, looks like I missed all the fun yesterday. |
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| 16:02.52 | jlp_znc | makes a sad face |
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| 16:12.29 | goozbach | want: http://i.imgur.com/QbeJQ7v.jpg |
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| 16:20.46 | Jayce^ | crap, those cheap USB asic's on amazon ran out.. |
| 16:23.19 | klys | "advanced system on a chip" |
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| 17:09.41 | youtah | jlp_znc, it all started when utahcon started talking about snail testicles. |
| 17:10.51 | youtah | Throws a politically charged stick-o-dyno-mite into the room: http://www.camharris.us/2013/11/the-obamacare-rollout-in-11-shocking-pictures/ |
| 17:11.10 | youtah | runs and jumps behind the couch and wraps himself in the curtains |
| 17:13.28 | ink_ | yep, should have been single-payer |
| 17:14.01 | youtah | *single-player </austin powers voice> |
| 17:14.13 | youtah | may or may not have recently watched Austin Powers |
| 17:31.41 | romanovic | youtah: [politically charged response] |
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| 17:33.55 | levi | Jayce^: What were the cheap USB asics? |
| 17:35.11 | fungus | attacks the weak with a politically charged comment |
| 17:35.30 | fungus | ink is clearly a commie pinko ... (i forgot the rest) |
| 17:36.05 | ink | yep, just like all those reds in Australia and Japan :-) |
| 17:38.52 | fungus | hehe. |
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| 18:19.23 | neybar_work | does anyone know exim? I want to be able to recieve email that looks like this: james+someidentifier@domain.com |
| 18:20.16 | joshh | look for local part suffix or something like that |
| 18:20.24 | neybar_work | exim just complains "unknown user in virtual mailbox table" |
| 18:20.26 | joshh | been a while since i had to care about mail, but its doable |
| 18:21.26 | joshh | its a bit different for system vs virtual users too, iirc |
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| 18:36.48 | Jayce^ | levi: there were some $15 asic devices for mining... quickly started raising prices and still sold out |
| 18:36.59 | Jayce^ | each does about 330mh/s |
| 18:37.33 | jsmith | Jayce^: Seriously? |
| 18:39.14 | Jayce^ | yeah, I had to wait for a paycheck, and missed out |
| 18:39.19 | Jayce^ | but know a few people that have some |
| 18:39.59 | Jayce^ | some other people have them in now for $34 w/o prime now |
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| 18:44.12 | neybar_work | I grabbed 2 of them when they were at $18 |
| 18:44.20 | neybar_work | wish I had more now... |
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| 19:54.24 | manithree | ceylon looks like a modern, interesting language. Built with ant? Rly? |
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| 20:16.39 | jsmith | Jayce^: You need one of these: http://retrominer.com/ |
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| 20:24.46 | klys | ~slashdot |
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| 20:32.27 | youtah | lol romanovic ... just saw your politically charged response |
| 20:32.43 | youtah | it's difficult argument to beat |
| 20:37.12 | romanovic | youtah: everyone knows its the republicans fault obamacare is broken. republicans don't want the peasants to have good health care. And they'd kick your dog or spit on your food if given the chance. |
| 20:38.43 | fozzmoo | http://turntable.fm/utah |
| 20:39.53 | manithree | Republicans are caring bureaucrats, it's the [L|l]ibertarians that want to kick your dog and spit on your food while they're smoking pot. |
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| 20:41.57 | klys | then you never hear a principle of noninitiation of force from a congressman in this supposed libertarian conspiracy. |
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| 20:45.39 | manithree | must have been temporarily possessed by a Karl Rove-like demon |
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| 20:48.48 | youtah | manithree, but I dont wanna smoke pot |
| 20:48.55 | youtah | is fine with the spitting and stuff |
| 20:49.27 | jlp_znc | *I* don't want to kick dogs. I *like* dogs. |
| 20:49.53 | jlp_znc | the pot smoking doesn't bother me... I just won't inhale. :-) |
| 20:51.08 | youtah | Picture of Hooters on Big Beaver https://twitter.com/cuteculturechic/status/400726855617347584 (SAFE for work) |
| 20:51.18 | youtah | (see the road sign at the far left) |
| 20:51.40 | youtah | NOOOOO, The image is too small to read it! |
| 20:51.50 | jlp_znc | :-( |
| 20:52.04 | youtah | jlp_znc, can you see this? https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/v/1000268_10153474802310032_1828397400_n.jpg?oh=9805eefb1672205d8137898f4d709b07&oe=52858180 |
| 20:52.06 | ink | haha |
| 20:52.17 | jlp_znc | yes |
| 20:52.38 | jlp_znc | and my eyesight is almost good enough to read the street sign. :-/ |
| 20:52.52 | jlp_znc | if I didn't know what it said, I would have trouble with it. |
| 20:53.14 | jlp_znc | I do love that it's exit 69, too, but there is nothing in that pic to indicate it. |
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| 23:14.33 | youtah | http://petapixel.com/2013/11/13/photographer-gets-tussle-elk-copious-amounts-headbutting-ensues/ |
| 23:31.14 | *** join/#utah RyanE (~RyanE@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 23:35.51 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (~macnewbol@66.219.204.99.provo.dynamic.broadweavenetworks.net) |
| 23:48.16 | jlp_znc | I liked how it backed away quickly when he stood up. almost like it was saying "holy crap! it's taller than I thought!" |
| 23:50.35 | joshh | anyone using openstack with neutron networking? |
