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| 00:19.40 | kalcy2 | hello all |
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| 06:20.25 | jxqz | apple is dying! |
| 06:22.25 | jxqz | and microsoft |
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| 16:30.26 | T4rku5 | Morning |
| 16:33.09 | manithree | T4rku5: Yes, it is. |
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| 17:41.09 | Gate | jxqz: gallifrey falls? |
| 17:41.57 | skrike | ballmer and jobs are no time lords. |
| 17:48.38 | Gate | skrike: your right, they are far more like daleks. |
| 17:50.26 | skrike | ballmer looks more like a sontaran |
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| 18:01.50 | Q_Continuum | Utopia price drop. Gigabit now in the $65-$85/month for residential service; depending on ISP. |
| 18:18.47 | romanovic | :'C |
| 18:20.13 | romanovic | would gladly pay a monster installation fee, if Utopia could just run a line out to him in Herriman. $3000? $4000? what will it take? |
| 18:24.20 | jsmith | romanovic: I dunno out there, but I asked one of the local ISPs here how much it would cost to run the line to my house... they stopped counting after the bill hit the $50k mark :-O |
| 18:24.48 | jlp_znc | romanovic: I can't even get it in my part of Murray City, and we were a Tier 1 city! Now they're telling me that it will be at least another year and a half before they even think about finishing the Murray build out. |
| 18:28.32 | romanovic | yah. i know i'm out of luck until I move to a municipality willing to invest in infrastructure |
| 18:40.16 | romanovic | maybe city governments don't see how much like public roads internet infrastructure has become, in terms of importance to commerce (although they're alike in terms of cost too)? |
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| 18:47.24 | jxqz | heh |
| 18:47.55 | jxqz | in West Jordan the last (current?) mayor almost belives that Ford should be building city roads |
| 18:48.04 | romanovic | we don't need public roads! they are extremely expensive, and there are private market alternatives. Allow private corporations to build and maintain all the roads, its not like they would abuse a natural monopoly and exact less than fair tolls for substandard service |
| 18:48.23 | keldwud | heh, poe :) |
| 18:48.59 | keldwud | CORPORATIONS HAVE TO BE FAIR BECAUSE THE INVISIBLE HAND OF THE FREE MARKET FORCES THEM TO TREAT THEIR CUSTOMERS FAIRLY |
| 18:50.16 | jxqz | it's stupefying how so much ignorance can end up in city government |
| 18:50.21 | romanovic | Ford could build their roads out in west jordan! And other entities are free to compete by building their own roads parallel to Ford's roads |
| 18:57.59 | Q_Continuum | "Oh you want to leave your neighborhood, and access this frontage road? $20." |
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| 19:00.53 | keldwud | hmm, so has anybody had success installing an older version of java on ubuntu, or even debian in general? |
| 19:01.56 | keldwud | I mean, I've had success with update-alternatives |
| 19:02.04 | keldwud | and it *appears* that I've done everything correctly |
| 19:02.31 | keldwud | but my jlnp still doesn't work, it still acts like it is using the most recent version |
| 19:04.43 | fungus | keldwud, how are you running the jnlp? Browser plugin, or executing javaws |
| 19:05.52 | keldwud | executing javaws from the command line |
| 19:06.21 | fungus | so check which javaws it's firing off. `which javaws` |
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| 19:07.19 | fungus | example: |
| 19:07.21 | fungus | $ ls -l `which javaws` |
| 19:07.21 | fungus | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 Apr 19 16:21 /usr/bin/javaws -> /etc/alternatives/javaws |
| 19:07.30 | fungus | $ ls -l /etc/alternatives/javaws |
| 19:07.30 | fungus | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 41 Apr 19 16:21 /etc/alternatives/javaws -> /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-oracle/jre/bin/javaws |
| 19:07.46 | jlp_znc | fungus: try "namei /usr/bin/javaws" for fun |
| 19:08.14 | fungus | jlp_znc, ooh, neat. that's a cool tool. |
| 19:08.23 | jlp_znc | it comes in very handy |
| 19:08.44 | jlp_znc | with -m, it also prints the mode of each entry |
| 19:09.06 | keldwud | jlp_znc: what does that output mean, that I'm looking at for namei? |
| 19:09.19 | keldwud | fungus: yeah mine links to alternatives/javaws |
| 19:09.23 | jlp_znc | namei follows the symlink chain for you |
| 19:09.33 | keldwud | oh cool |
| 19:09.46 | keldwud | ok yeah, it's pointing to jdk1.6... hmmm |
| 19:10.11 | jlp_znc | http://pastebin.com/v771gFRz for example, |
| 19:11.06 | keldwud | javaws -> /opt/jdk1.6.0_45/bin/javaws |
| 19:11.13 | jlp_znc | /usr/bin/javaws is a symlink to /etc/alternatives/javaws, which is a symlink to /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-oracle/jre/bin/javaws, which is a regular executable file. |
| 19:11.31 | keldwud | I'm not sure what jdk1.6.0_45 is though |
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| 19:12.21 | jlp_znc | that's an old version of the java JDK, 1.6.0_45 |
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| 19:12.51 | keldwud | so maybe that's where my disconnect is is in javaws |
| 19:12.56 | jlp_znc | why do you want to run your jnlp with an old java, anyway? doesn't it make sense to use the newest for the latest bugfixes? |
| 19:13.09 | keldwud | jlp_znc: I have an obsolete tool |
| 19:13.14 | jlp_znc | ahh |
| 19:13.19 | keldwud | doesn't work with anything greater than 7u4 |
| 19:13.53 | keldwud | took me a month to find a fix for the issue because last year $boss kept saying "well it works on my machine just find" |
| 19:14.08 | keldwud | but that's because he's not the type of person who runs updates |
| 19:14.41 | keldwud | so I had it working on my windows machine, but I can't figure out how to get it working on my ubuntu machine |
| 19:14.52 | keldwud | it's for my IPMI access with a java remote KVM |
| 19:15.14 | keldwud | cuz I'm lazy and don't want to walk over to the data center when I can't ssh :-p |
| 19:16.11 | keldwud | so I think that's where my disconnect is, is the javaws isn't the version I want |
| 19:16.24 | keldwud | but I have no clue how to determine the correct version |
| 19:16.35 | keldwud | I have the other two pieces of my java set to 7u4 |
| 19:16.52 | fungus | that's not a good idea |
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| 19:16.58 | keldwud | no? |
| 19:17.04 | fungus | All your java should be same version |
| 19:17.09 | keldwud | from a security perspective? or something else? |
| 19:17.15 | keldwud | yeah I want it all to be 7u4 |
| 19:17.48 | fungus | for sanity |
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| 19:17.57 | fungus | In fact that may be the cause of your issue. |
| 19:18.04 | jlp_znc | did you try update-java-alternatives? |
| 19:18.44 | keldwud | is that different than update-alternatives --install? |
| 19:18.56 | fungus | yes |
| 19:19.18 | keldwud | not sure what to do with that command |
| 19:19.23 | fungus | update-java-alternatives is a tool to manage the many different alternative pieces. |
| 19:19.54 | keldwud | "update-alternatives: warning: /etc/alternatives/java is dangling" |
| 19:19.55 | fungus | But it requires that your java install have a proper /usr/lib/jvm/.*.jinfo file |
| 19:20.05 | jlp_znc | you can try update-java-alternatives -l (that's an ell) to see what you've got. |
| 19:20.42 | keldwud | java-1.6.0-openjdk and java-7-oracle |
| 19:21.14 | keldwud | hmm, I thought I untarred 7u4 and installed it |
| 19:21.20 | fungus | keldwud, all your java parts should be pointing to the same java directory, otherwise you could have some problems. |
| 19:21.34 | fungus | keldwud, that tool won't see your manually installed java dir |
| 19:21.45 | jlp_znc | what fungus said. likely, the 7u4 you installed didn't provide a .jinfo file |
| 19:21.52 | keldwud | oh ok |
| 19:22.02 | jlp_znc | but you can make one yourself that corresponds with the rev you installed |
| 19:22.15 | fungus | If you want to use a manually installed tool. just manage the symlinks yourself. |
| 19:22.32 | keldwud | like this? |
| 19:22.53 | keldwud | sudo update-alternatives --install "/usr/bin/java" "java" "/path/to/my/java" |
| 19:23.00 | keldwud | with a 1 on the end |
| 19:23.00 | fungus | no |
| 19:23.13 | fungus | that's just one tiny part of the java set |
| 19:23.27 | keldwud | am I getting in way over my head? |
| 19:23.35 | jlp_znc | take a look at /usr/lib/jvm/.java-7-oracle.jinfo |
| 19:23.53 | jlp_znc | it's just a text file, contains a list of the executables that correspond to each java tool |
| 19:24.10 | jlp_znc | then create one with the paths to your java install in /opt |
| 19:24.32 | keldwud | oh wow |
| 19:24.34 | keldwud | I see |
| 19:24.43 | keldwud | so I was only "fixing" 3 of those |
| 19:24.49 | keldwud | I didn't realize there were that many |
| 19:25.19 | jlp_znc | yeah, there's a whole mess of 'em |
| 19:26.10 | keldwud | ooh, I could one-line that, I bet :) |
| 19:28.44 | keldwud | cat /usr/lib/jvm/.java-7-oracle.jinfo | sed [stuff here] >> /opt/my/java-install? |
| 19:28.45 | keldwud | .jinfo |
| 19:29.03 | keldwud | am I thinking about that correctly? |
| 19:29.13 | fungus | yeah, you probably could. then manually tweak the header |
| 19:29.16 | keldwud | or I could just do sed without the cat, couldn't I? |
| 19:29.30 | fungus | yeah, no need for cat |
| 19:29.31 | keldwud | I'm way new to everything, including sed |
| 19:29.45 | keldwud | ok cool. at least I'm getting good at recognizing my UUOCs :) |
| 19:30.06 | fungus | cp orig new; sed -i [stuff here] new |
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| 19:30.41 | keldwud | oh, that's probably a better way, yeah |
| 19:33.18 | fungus | Or, and easier way is to unload your java into /usr/lib/jvm/<my new java jdk> |
| 19:33.45 | fungus | then symlink your new directory to the name of the old dir. |
| 19:37.47 | keldwud | does tar not have a destination option? |
| 19:37.55 | keldwud | I just scanned through the man page |
| 19:38.14 | keldwud | I mean, I could do it with the gui, but then I wouldn't learn how to do it from the command line :) |
| 19:38.36 | goozbach | keldwud: destination? |
| 19:38.42 | goozbach | as in where should it extract? |
| 19:38.47 | keldwud | yeah |
| 19:38.49 | goozbach | or where it should create the tarball? |
| 19:38.55 | keldwud | where it should extract |
| 19:38.58 | keldwud | but I just realized something |
| 19:39.05 | keldwud | it will extract to my current pwd, no? |
| 19:39.09 | goozbach | -C ? |
| 19:39.13 | goozbach | or --directory |
| 19:39.17 | keldwud | checks the man page again |
| 19:39.53 | keldwud | oh, looks like you're right |
| 19:40.01 | keldwud | but does tar extract into your current working directory? |
| 19:40.14 | keldwud | or just the path in which the file is found? |
| 19:43.09 | fungus | current dir |
| 19:43.16 | fungus | unless -C is specified |
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| 19:44.29 | keldwud | current dir == pwd? |
| 19:44.39 | skrike | print working directory |
| 19:45.07 | keldwud | and so -C just pretty much changes my working directory before it runs the rest of the command, I'm guessing? |
| 19:45.14 | fungus | exactly |
| 19:45.21 | keldwud | cool :) |
| 19:46.11 | goozbach | yup and yup |
| 19:47.54 | keldwud | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:48.55 | keldwud | fungus, so where do I change the symlink? |
| 19:49.05 | keldwud | that first one, right? |
| 19:49.10 | keldwud | when I did ls -l? |
| 19:49.39 | keldwud | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:49.45 | fungus | just move the old olddir to olddir.old. then symlink your new dir to olddir |
| 19:50.10 | keldwud | ok, I think I understand |
| 19:50.14 | keldwud | lemme see if I have this right |
| 19:50.30 | keldwud | wait, which olddir am I changing? |
| 19:50.33 | keldwud | that's where I'm getting lost |
| 19:50.56 | keldwud | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:51.19 | fungus | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:51.36 | fungus | rename to /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-oracle.orig |
| 19:51.54 | fungus | symlink /usr/lib/jvm/<new java dir> to /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-oracle |
| 19:52.41 | keldwud | ok, that's what I was thinking, but I was unsure because I'm still new to *nix heirarchies, too |
| 19:53.12 | fungus | It's just a sly way to replace the package installed version with your manually installed one. All symlinks (update-alternative) will continue to function. |
| 19:53.53 | fungus | Possible problem, as with all manual changes to repo managed software, updates can cause breakage. |
| 19:54.24 | keldwud | so would cp or rename be the best tool for renaming a folder? |
| 19:54.28 | keldwud | -er mv |
| 19:54.31 | keldwud | mv or rename |
| 19:54.32 | fungus | mv |
| 19:54.34 | keldwud | ok |
| 19:54.51 | keldwud | the man page for rename made me feel concerned that I shouldn't use it for this purpose :) |
| 19:55.33 | fungus | it's for mass renaming lots of files. |
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| 19:55.52 | fungus | very useful in those cases |
| 19:56.23 | Tene | keldwud: there are two variants of /usr/bin/rename, actually. RH-derived distros provide the version from util-linux, and debian-derived distros provide a different version with different arguments that descends from a utility script that used to be packaged with perl back in the 90s. |
| 19:56.59 | Tene | debian's version in the perl package is nicer, IMO; it accepts a regular expression to do the renaming (actually any perl expression at all) |
| 19:57.17 | keldwud | yeah, the perl one was the one I believe I had |
| 19:57.22 | keldwud | it discussed perl regexes |
| 19:58.21 | Tene | I'd only bother using rename if you're doing something programmatic over a large number of files; interactive on the command line for a single directory, mv is less likely to do anything surprising. |
| 20:00.27 | keldwud | ln syntax is the same as cp and mv, right? |
| 20:00.59 | fungus | similar |
| 20:01.12 | keldwud | ln oldfile newfile |
| 20:01.18 | keldwud | where newfile is my new path |
| 20:01.23 | fungus | ln -s /usr/lib/jvm/<manual install> /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-oracle |
| 20:01.25 | keldwud | and oldfile is the path I just barely renamed |
| 20:01.37 | keldwud | checks the -s switch in the man page |
| 20:01.44 | keldwud | oh I had it backwards |
| 20:02.10 | keldwud | oh yeah because I don't want a hard link |
| 20:02.14 | keldwud | I was going to ask about that |
| 20:02.31 | fungus | you can't hardlink directories. only files. |
| 20:02.45 | keldwud | ok that makes more sense |
| 20:04.14 | keldwud | so assuming that all my update-alternatives --configs point to java-7-oracle, everything should now be pointing to my 7u4 now, right? |
| 20:04.33 | fungus | right |
| 20:04.35 | keldwud | if it doesn't work, it's probably because I haven't configured the alternatives properly |
| 20:04.40 | keldwud | or I would assume |
| 20:04.44 | keldwud | since I was messing around with those a bunch |
| 20:04.50 | fungus | just use update-java-alternatives |
| 20:05.42 | keldwud | update-java-alternatives -s /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-oracle |
| 20:05.43 | keldwud | owait |
| 20:05.53 | keldwud | no, I can use the name in the header of the jlpinfo file right? |
| 20:06.13 | fungus | use the name given by -l |
| 20:06.23 | fungus | eg: java-7-oracle |
| 20:07.03 | keldwud | and isn't that where -l gets the name, from the header in the jinfo? |
| 20:07.13 | fungus | yes |
| 20:07.16 | keldwud | but yeah, your way is easier :) |
| 20:07.39 | fungus | Just beware if the package gets an update. |
| 20:07.49 | keldwud | thanks for holding my hand through this. sorry to have needed such detailed instruction |
| 20:08.40 | keldwud | fungus: yeah, I already scan my updates before running them |
| 20:08.51 | keldwud | because my synergy package is also "outdated" |
| 20:09.03 | keldwud | ubuntu always wants to backport it to an earlier version |
| 20:09.26 | keldwud | because the newer version from the developer isn't recognized for some reason |
| 20:10.22 | keldwud | update-alternatives: error: alternative /usr/lib/jvm/java-7-oracle/jre/bin/servertool for servertool not registered; not setting |
| 20:10.32 | keldwud | hmmm |
| 20:10.45 | keldwud | yeah, that didn't work |
| 20:11.00 | keldwud | I better check that new install I unzipped |
| 20:11.30 | keldwud | oh I see what happened |
| 20:11.59 | keldwud | I have an extraneous path in between java-7-oracle and where update-java-alternatives is looking |
| 20:12.16 | keldwud | I need to move everything from jre1.7.0_04 to .. |
| 20:13.01 | keldwud | is mv *.* .. a bad move? |
| 20:13.12 | keldwud | is there a "safer" or better way to do it? |
| 20:13.21 | Tene | keldwud: why *.* instead of *? |
| 20:13.31 | keldwud | because DOS runs in my blood :) |
| 20:13.32 | keldwud | lol |
| 20:13.40 | Tene | Also, that will miss hidden files that start with . |
| 20:13.43 | keldwud | you have a good point, though. I always forget * works in place of *.* |
| 20:14.03 | Tene | Yes, and *.* will miss files that don't have a . in them, which is not uncommon. |
| 20:14.22 | keldwud | oh I should also be careful with .. |
| 20:14.30 | keldwud | that is relative to my working directory, right? |
| 20:14.53 | keldwud | so if I'm not actually in that directory, it will try and move it to ~/.. |
| 20:14.55 | keldwud | ? |
| 20:15.01 | keldwud | (since I'm currently at ~) |
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| 20:18.38 | keldwud | gah. 7u4 doesn't have the right files for update-java-alternatives |
| 20:20.21 | keldwud | is it because I'm using 64 bit? would that have anythign to do with it? |
| 20:29.04 | Tene | keldwud: . and .. are actual directory entries; they're just hard links to a directory. |
| 20:29.33 | Tene | they're not special at the shell or filesystem level |
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| 20:57.04 | Migs | OH SNAP. I just remembered I have Mike & Ikes in my drawer. |
| 20:57.05 | Migs | JACKPOT. |
| 21:03.42 | Tene | cool story bro |
| 21:03.52 | keldwud | *brah |
| 21:04.17 | jlp_znc | s/cool/coo'/ |
| 21:04.44 | jlp_znc | anyone have the jive plugin for irc? |
| 21:14.36 | Jayce^ | yo mamma, cut me some slack, jack.. |
| 21:18.13 | Sargun | You guys use Jive? |
| 21:27.41 | youtah | http://imgur.com/gallery/MLZPL3x |
| 21:29.39 | Sargun | haha |
| 21:36.02 | joshh | whiskey in your desk > mike and ikes |
| 21:39.55 | *** join/#utah harleypig__ (~harleypig@67.199.188.115) |
| 21:42.09 | youtah | but I thought Ikes was banished |
| 21:42.15 | youtah | wouldn't it be just a desk full of Mikes? |
| 21:45.18 | youtah | or are they back together now? |
| 21:51.24 | joshh | also hot tamales > mike and ike |
| 22:18.12 | youtah | no way |
| 22:18.32 | youtah | I am craving a baguette. |
| 22:26.51 | *** join/#utah pdayton (~pjdayton@2607:fb90:111:d5a3:104f:f060:cf36:3b8c) |
| 22:28.13 | jlp_znc | http://aem1k.com/world/ java script required... make sure you "view source" |
| 22:35.30 | youtah | So freaking cool |
| 22:41.30 | *** join/#utah smcquay (~smcquay@174-126-80-249.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 22:54.37 | levi | Weird, Google's gerrit code review tool has a prolog system built into it. |
| 22:56.30 | levi | I guess it's to provide a flexible system for determining whether a submission is acceptable to commit. |
| 23:40.31 | jsmith | levi: likes(jsmith,prolog) |
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