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| 15:55.16 | Nemus | to let everyone know if anyone is interested this Friday we will be having a presentation on the Social Engineering Tool Kit (SET) tool kit at the transistor / DC801 SLC hacker space at 6:00 pm |
| 16:03.51 | manithree | I think I'm going to tT Orem tonight. |
| 16:08.28 | manithree | d3c4f: If I join tT, could I bring my kids (12, 13) with me and work on their science fair projects? |
| 16:14.04 | d3c4f | yes, so long as they are supervised 100% of the time |
| 16:14.32 | d3c4f | also visitors / kids can't use the shop tools. soldering irons, screwdrivers, etc are cool |
| 16:15.26 | d3c4f | manithree, next week in Orem on Thursday AJ will be doing a presentation on Node.JS, anyone and everyone is invited |
| 16:15.35 | d3c4f | see thetransistor.com/calendar |
| 16:16.49 | manithree | I don't think my kids would be interested in that, but thanks. There is a UFSUG meeting tonight, right? |
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| 18:13.26 | youtah | So. |
| 18:13.34 | youtah | No one be jealous or anything |
| 18:13.46 | youtah | Looks like i will be helping photograph Salt Lake Comic Con this weekend, for the event itself, not as press. All access baby! |
| 18:14.04 | harleypig | nice |
| 18:14.37 | youtah | So I will be heading down after work for Thursday and Friday and shooting in the evening (including the after parties) |
| 18:14.37 | d3c4f | you could totally touch Stan Lee's butt |
| 18:14.52 | youtah | touching is so 1990's.... |
| 18:14.59 | d3c4f | :P |
| 18:15.02 | youtah | ;-) |
| 18:15.15 | youtah | but then I should be there all day for Saturday |
| 18:42.20 | goozbach | harleypig: right up your alley: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jofNR_WkoCE |
| 18:43.19 | goozbach | I can't stop watching |
| 18:43.41 | goozbach | Jayce^: you might like it too! |
| 18:43.44 | skrike | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jofNR_WkoCE#t=44 |
| 18:45.52 | harleypig | furries! |
| 18:46.45 | harleypig | what does the seal say? :D :D :D |
| 18:48.10 | harleypig | goozbach: I love this video! |
| 18:51.31 | keldwud | ok, so if I wanted to do a ping sweep and get fresh mac addresses in my mac address table, I only need to clear the mac-address-table right? no need to clear arp-cache? |
| 18:53.07 | goozbach | keldwud: it wouldn't hurt |
| 18:54.00 | keldwud | but just to make sure, I do a ping sweep after to repopulate, right? |
| 18:56.02 | goozbach | depends what you're trying to do? |
| 18:56.05 | goozbach | move an IP? |
| 18:56.10 | goozbach | or just update the db |
| 18:56.21 | goozbach | a ping sweep should repopulate it |
| 18:56.28 | goozbach | but ARP is ephemerial by design |
| 18:58.39 | keldwud | I'm mapping stuff |
| 18:58.54 | keldwud | I mapped my network cables from a port to a physical location |
| 18:59.22 | keldwud | I want to retrieve mac addresses for racks of machines and be able to place the mac address with the physical location |
| 18:59.43 | keldwud | so that I don't have to manually plug a console into each and every server to document MAC addresses |
| 19:00.20 | keldwud | so I already did it once, but a handful of the machines didn't "take", so I cleared my mac-address-table and arp-cache on that switch stack and then did a ping sweep and now I'm mapping my ports again |
| 19:00.30 | keldwud | to see if I got the mac addresses for those missing ports |
| 19:02.20 | goozbach | ahh so flush and reping is good work |
| 19:03.37 | jlp_znc | ouch. it would probably be better to use your config management system (you're using puppet, right?) to go gather the data from each machine and put it somewhere (a nice database table sounds like a good place) rather than flushing the arp caches on all of your switches. |
| 19:04.10 | goozbach | I was gonna say ansible |
| 19:04.17 | jlp_znc | keep in mind that until your switches figure out where everything is again, they'll act like repeaters |
| 19:04.57 | jlp_znc | if you've got a dozen machines on one switch, no biggie, but if you've got hundreds of machines, it can be annoying |
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| 19:24.11 | keldwud | jlp_znc: so that means I need an OS on each machine, right? |
| 19:24.13 | keldwud | to gather the data? |
| 19:24.19 | keldwud | so how do I go about getting OS on each machine? |
| 19:24.25 | keldwud | with puppet |
| 19:24.37 | keldwud | but I need mac addresses so that puppet can uniquely identify each machine :-p |
| 19:24.44 | keldwud | catch-22, right? |
| 19:25.01 | keldwud | flush and reping? |
| 19:25.03 | keldwud | what are those? |
| 19:25.11 | jlp_znc | ahh, I thought you were mapping an existing infrastructure |
| 19:25.15 | keldwud | nope |
| 19:25.24 | harleypig | well, one gets rid of the ... effluvia |
| 19:25.31 | jlp_znc | probably should have gotten the MACs from each box prior to installing |
| 19:25.33 | keldwud | mapping out new infrastructure so that I can automate the deployment of my infrastructure :) |
| 19:25.41 | keldwud | jlp_znc: that's what I mean |
| 19:25.51 | keldwud | getting the mac from each box prior to installing is kind of dumb |
| 19:25.58 | keldwud | that's 300 machines |
| 19:26.04 | jlp_znc | so the machines are powered on, but no OS installed |
| 19:26.19 | jlp_znc | well, you have to physically touch each machine to install it, right (physical install, not software install) |
| 19:26.25 | keldwud | nope, I don't |
| 19:26.37 | jlp_znc | you're buying them pre-racked? |
| 19:26.41 | keldwud | because each machine's bios comes boot PXE by default |
| 19:26.46 | keldwud | no, I've been racking them |
| 19:27.03 | jlp_znc | and you can't write down the mac on each one as you put it in the rack? |
| 19:27.08 | keldwud | but the issue I was trying to address was gathering MAC addresses from mac address table |
| 19:27.26 | keldwud | gah, I don't know why i'm getting upset about this |
| 19:27.35 | keldwud | that's what I get for being a noobv |
| 19:27.38 | jlp_znc | me neither... just trying to understand your process. :-) |
| 19:27.47 | goozbach | keldwud: do you have access to the DHCP server or provisioning server? |
| 19:27.52 | keldwud | gahhhhhhh |
| 19:27.53 | keldwud | lol |
| 19:28.04 | keldwud | the reason I am doing it this way is because I have ruled out other methods |
| 19:28.07 | goozbach | you can pull the mac from those in most cases? |
| 19:28.18 | keldwud | I don't have time anymore to dedicate to researching the best way to document mac addresses |
| 19:28.24 | keldwud | I've found a way that works in my environment |
| 19:28.29 | jlp_znc | so, here's my process for this. I get a new machine, take it out of the box, label it, write down the mac address, put it in the rack, and connect power and network. |
| 19:28.33 | keldwud | and I've implemented it |
| 19:28.36 | goozbach | cool! just do it then :P |
| 19:28.42 | keldwud | how do you write down the mac address? |
| 19:28.45 | keldwud | without turning it on? |
| 19:28.46 | keldwud | I'm confused |
| 19:29.04 | jlp_znc | with a pen? it's generally on a sticker on the box or in the documentation that comes with the machine |
| 19:29.12 | keldwud | yeah, we don't have that luxury |
| 19:29.13 | goozbach | I use the barcode scanner on my phone |
| 19:29.16 | goozbach | :) |
| 19:29.24 | keldwud | I've designed a solution for my specific environment |
| 19:29.31 | goozbach | if that fails, I take a picture of the mac address sticker |
| 19:29.34 | keldwud | and my solution is unique here because standard solutions do not apply |
| 19:29.40 | jlp_znc | s'coo, bro. |
| 19:29.41 | keldwud | so open up each machine? |
| 19:29.45 | goozbach | if it's already running I use arp (like yourself) |
| 19:29.48 | keldwud | sorry for getting so upset |
| 19:29.52 | keldwud | and defensive |
| 19:29.56 | goozbach | if it's running and got an os use config management |
| 19:30.05 | goozbach | use the tool which best fits |
| 19:30.05 | keldwud | I was just annoyed that I couldn't focus on the issue that I was needing help with |
| 19:30.18 | keldwud | and having to back out and describe my whole process and justify why I was doing what I was doing |
| 19:30.23 | jlp_znc | well, first you have to paint the bike shed. what color should we make it? :-) |
| 19:30.35 | keldwud | justifying my actions is one of my triggers due to a toxic relationship with my mother growing up |
| 19:30.36 | goozbach | IRC =! focus in most cases :D |
| 19:30.50 | goozbach | keldwud: it sounds like you did just what I would have |
| 19:30.52 | Jayce^ | goozbach: one word... dafuq? |
| 19:30.55 | keldwud | well I came to IRC because I had a question |
| 19:31.09 | keldwud | but it was sidetracked into, well why don't you do it this way instead? |
| 19:31.24 | keldwud | instead of, oh yeah, this is how it would work if you try it the way you mentioned |
| 19:31.31 | keldwud | I don't need the lateral thinking |
| 19:31.46 | keldwud | the part where I am getting stuck is this |
| 19:32.16 | keldwud | I am viewing my mac-address-table after clearing arp-cache and the table and then doing a ping sweep to make sure all machines have registered in the table |
| 19:32.27 | keldwud | I have some machines that list multiple mac addresses |
| 19:32.31 | keldwud | for one port |
| 19:32.38 | keldwud | and I have physically inspected the port |
| 19:32.57 | keldwud | one ethernet cable to one machine |
| 19:32.58 | goozbach | have IPMI or some other out of band which uses same port? |
| 19:33.02 | keldwud | nope |
| 19:33.03 | jlp_znc | sure. often rack mount systems will have both a mac for the system and a mac for the co-processor |
| 19:33.10 | keldwud | ipmi is separate ethernet |
| 19:33.21 | jlp_znc | are these supermicros? |
| 19:33.23 | keldwud | well, not all my machines have more than one mac |
| 19:33.42 | youtah | Such a crazy day |
| 19:33.42 | keldwud | only the ones that were giving me issues |
| 19:33.44 | keldwud | a small handfull |
| 19:33.47 | keldwud | *handful |
| 19:34.04 | keldwud | so I've successfully gathered MACs for >85% of the intended machines |
| 19:34.25 | jlp_znc | so on the supermicros that I have, if you don't have a cable on the ipmi port when the system is powered on, then the ipmi device will come up sharing the primary system port. |
| 19:34.33 | keldwud | but some of them just aren't "showing up" even after replacing network cables |
| 19:34.49 | goozbach | jlp_znc: that's awesome but annoying for this use case |
| 19:34.59 | keldwud | so some of the ports show four MAC addresses, and some show none |
| 19:35.12 | keldwud | *that's* where I'm getting confused |
| 19:35.28 | keldwud | I have the machine powered on, on the proper vlan, conduct a ping sweep |
| 19:35.30 | jlp_znc | goozbach: it's annoying for most use cases, because if you power off the machine via IPMI, the co-processor can't talk on the network, either (as the power to that interface is dropped) |
| 19:35.38 | keldwud | and it still doesn't register a MAC for that port |
| 19:35.49 | keldwud | even though the port has a new ethernet cable plugged into a powered on machine |
| 19:35.56 | youtah | I am one step closer to having internet at my house again |
| 19:36.08 | jlp_znc | keldwud: what address are you pinging? if the machine isn't configured, it doesn't have an IP, right? |
| 19:36.09 | keldwud | my IPMI have separate boards |
| 19:36.11 | youtah | The low voltage guys are at my house working as we speak |
| 19:36.19 | keldwud | well it doesn't need an IP |
| 19:36.23 | jlp_znc | youtah: oh noes! |
| 19:36.29 | keldwud | oh I didn't do a broadcast ping |
| 19:36.34 | keldwud | that's what I should do |
| 19:36.51 | goozbach | youtah: no more tearing up walls I hope |
| 19:37.02 | youtah | nope |
| 19:37.10 | keldwud | I think... |
| 19:37.11 | youtah | finishing / terminating the ends in the basement |
| 19:37.57 | keldwud | because you're right, jlp_znc, they don't have IP addresses, so if my original ping sweep only included IP addresses, then .. hmmm |
| 19:38.15 | jlp_znc | try "arping" |
| 19:38.19 | keldwud | but doesn't the switch ask through each connected port, "oh hey, do you know where xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx is?" |
| 19:38.40 | keldwud | and then when it responds back, if the switch has never heard of that machine, it registers a mac, right? |
| 19:39.41 | keldwud | or do I have it wrong? |
| 19:40.12 | jlp_znc | well, my understanding is that the switch deals with mac addresses only |
| 19:40.39 | jlp_znc | so when you have a machine out there that wants to talk to another machine, and it doesn't know the mac, it will arp for the mac associated with the specific IP |
| 19:41.05 | jlp_znc | the machine that has that IP (or another one that is authoritative) will respond |
| 19:41.23 | keldwud | okay, so I think maybe I'm getting a glimmer of what may be happening then |
| 19:41.32 | jlp_znc | then the original system can send a packet to the specific mac. the switch, not knowing where that mac is, will send it out all of it's ports |
| 19:41.48 | jlp_znc | once it sees a response packet with the source mac, then the switch remembers which port it was on |
| 19:41.57 | keldwud | so if I can send an arp broadcast of some sort, that should hit each machine? |
| 19:42.04 | jlp_znc | gotta split for a bit... need to head to the doctor's office |
| 19:42.10 | jlp_znc | check out "arping", I think it can do what you want |
| 19:42.11 | keldwud | ok, thanks for the last bit |
| 19:42.18 | keldwud | yeah, I'm reading the man on it now |
| 19:45.45 | keldwud | the interesting thing is that after I cleared the mac-address-table and the arp-cache, then did a ping sweep, I *did* pick up some new MACs |
| 19:45.50 | keldwud | but still not all of them |
| 19:57.35 | spangborn | what's youtah complaining about now? ;p |
| 19:58.27 | keldwud | oh sorry, youtah. you were trying to tell a story |
| 19:58.32 | keldwud | and I just kind of kept talking over you |
| 19:58.47 | keldwud | you were at "such a crazy day"? :) |
| 19:59.14 | youtah | nachos |
| 19:59.18 | spangborn | https://twitter.com/spangborn/status/375683006834307072 |
| 19:59.18 | spangborn | Twitter: @: |
| 19:59.37 | spangborn | heh. twitter killed off the API I was using, I guess. |
| 19:59.42 | youtah | https://twitter.com/lurie_john/status/375704082196869120 |
| 19:59.43 | spangborn | Twitter: @: |
| 20:00.30 | spangborn | thanks, Twitter. :( |
| 20:00.42 | youtah | lol |
| 20:12.28 | *** join/#utah vantastic (~vantastic@199.16.150.186) |
| 20:19.49 | spangborn | I'll probably just write a bot in Python. |
| 20:20.01 | spangborn | spangTweet or something. |
| 20:22.53 | keldwud | okay I think this is the part that I was derp-ing. for some reason I thought an ethernet port on a server could respond even if there was no OS, i.e., I thought there was some magical way that MAC could be determined without an OS |
| 20:23.24 | keldwud | I thought that if it was powered on, and a broadcast packet was sent out at layer 2, that the interface would send it back somehow |
| 20:26.07 | Q_Continuum | There are some that could possibly do that. |
| 20:26.12 | Q_Continuum | Management ports and such |
| 20:26.32 | Q_Continuum | Maybe some self-contained cards (that aren't software-NICs), but I'm not aware of any. |
| 20:26.34 | keldwud | but generally speaking, just a standard nic |
| 20:26.57 | keldwud | gah, sorry for wasting everyone's time :) |
| 20:28.04 | manithree | keldwud: It's not lateral thinking, it's trying to figure out what you're asking http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html |
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| 20:28.57 | keldwud | to which section are you referring, manithree? |
| 20:29.27 | manithree | "Beware of asking the wrong question. If you ask one that is based on faulty assumptions, J. Random Hacker is quite likely to reply with a uselessly literal answer while thinking “Stupid question...”, and hoping the experience of getting what you asked for rather than what you needed will teach you a lesson." |
| 20:29.30 | keldwud | I was at step 5 after doing steps 1 - 4 and step 6 a couple times |
| 20:29.41 | keldwud | yeah, I had a faulty assumption |
| 20:30.21 | keldwud | my faulty assumption was that MAC addresses could be divined without a higher layer present |
| 20:30.31 | manithree | It's usually best to ask the broader question than what you think you've narrowed it down to. |
| 20:31.02 | manithree | Otherwise the answers aren't going to match, even JRH isn't trying to teach you a lesson |
| 20:32.48 | levi | keldwud: In a lot of NICs these days, the MAC is just a number in an eeprom or flash memory or something. And the network drivers just read it and use it for formatting frames. |
| 20:32.49 | keldwud | so broader idea is this: I have n machines, I don't have their MACs documented, I want to document them in the most efficient way possible, these machines don't have an OS |
| 20:33.13 | keldwud | I don't have DRAC implemented |
| 20:33.20 | keldwud | and not sure if I could if I wanted to |
| 20:33.32 | keldwud | anyway, is that better? |
| 20:33.49 | levi | Are the machines configured to do anything like PXE-boot? |
| 20:33.57 | keldwud | oh hey |
| 20:34.05 | keldwud | thank you |
| 20:34.14 | keldwud | now how about the ones that aren't configured to PXE boot? :) |
| 20:34.31 | keldwud | (I do have a set that PXE-boot by default in the BIOS settings) |
| 20:34.42 | keldwud | but I also have as subset that don't PXE boot by default |
| 20:35.05 | levi | There you'll need a USB stick, CD, floppy, etc. that will make them do something network-related when they boot from it. |
| 20:35.21 | keldwud | ok, so at that point, plugging a console in would be more efficient |
| 20:35.29 | keldwud | and just getting the MAC from the BIOS |
| 20:36.13 | levi | Probably, unless you have some netboot images and suitable media ready to go. |
| 20:37.17 | levi | But if you could just plug a bunch of USB keys into all the ones not set to PXEboot by default that would make them net-boot with the key in, then you could harvest them all at once. |
| 20:37.47 | levi | If you have SNMP-managed switches, you can pull the associated MACs from their forwarding tables. |
| 20:38.33 | levi | Then you just power everything on and once they've all been up for a moment, you dump the forwarding tables. |
| 20:38.45 | levi | (I actually implemented this, many years ago) |
| 20:38.50 | levi | In perl, even! |
| 20:50.48 | jxqz | "If you ask the wrong question, I'll punish you with one of my withering, wrong answers. Because I'm always right and I expect noobz to engage in hours of useless trial and error before being able to formulate the correct question to be asked that elicits my correct answer, at which point they needn't even bother asking the question because they know both question and answer. Because I'm the paragon of authority and I judge everyone based on my own, c |
| 20:52.06 | Nemus | http://developerexcuses.com/ |
| 21:11.17 | romanovic | http://www.arcticstartup.com/2013/09/05/paypal-freezes-mailpiles-crowdfunded-cash |
| 21:12.29 | romanovic | Nemus: heh. it's like BOFH excuses. Is this the new BDFH |
| 21:12.34 | romanovic | ? |
| 21:15.05 | Jayce^ | ah paypal.. |
| 21:15.37 | jsmith | Jayce^: Your favorite, right? |
| 21:15.59 | jxqz | taking orders from the feds again |
| 21:16.57 | Jayce^ | jsmith: you know it.. |
| 21:17.57 | Jayce^ | jsmith: you need to ask fozz about his India experience today :) |
| 21:18.58 | jsmith | fozzmoo: Pray tell... |
| 21:20.00 | *** join/#utah bhfozz (~fozz@69-195-66-156.unifiedlayer.com) |
| 21:20.17 | jsmith | bhfozz: He's alive! |
| 21:21.10 | fozzmoo | And Jayce^ just showed me how I can get to my proxy server! |
| 21:21.33 | fozzmoo | Okay. This story will not disappoint! |
| 21:22.03 | fozzmoo | I have a long-time client. They're a local payday loan place that only does online business. So not a walk-in loan place- just online. |
| 21:22.06 | fozzmoo | Not really important, I guess. |
| 21:22.18 | fozzmoo | but anyway, they had a site developed for them years and years ago in Perl-ASP. |
| 21:22.42 | fozzmoo | The original developer wasn't able to continue maintaining it and that's how they came to me. |
| 21:23.19 | fozzmoo | Now, because of some changes in laws in Utah, they have decided to sell the business to an outfit in California. |
| 21:23.39 | fozzmoo | The outfit in California has some programmers, but they're all Indians. |
| 21:24.07 | fozzmoo | Anyway- they copied all the files they SFTP'd from the original server to their new cloud server they set up. |
| 21:24.25 | fozzmoo | Then they e-mailed me because they were getting this: http://rs10.gmrwebteam.com/ |
| 21:24.50 | jsmith | Nice... |
| 21:24.56 | Jayce^ | just awesome |
| 21:25.07 | fozzmoo | I had to write back and explain... yeah, it's ASP but not VB-ASP. |
| 21:25.16 | fozzmoo | And they're probably not going to want to run it on a Microsoft cloud server. |
| 21:25.38 | fozzmoo | Incidentally, they asked me what my rate is. |
| 21:25.58 | goozbach | 20 bazillion |
| 21:26.00 | goozbach | ? |
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| 21:50.32 | Migs | http://i.imgur.com/xoevXXf.jpg |
| 21:54.57 | Gate | hey python guys, what do you use for web-app background job processing? |
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| 21:56.22 | Gate | I use Resque in Ruby but someone is asking for help with their python app and I don't know if the resque port to python is worth it |
| 21:57.18 | errstr | fwiw, pyres is the python version of resque |
| 21:58.08 | errstr | I use Resque and Sidkiq extensively for asynch job processing |
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| 22:33.15 | levi | Are those utility libraries for forking off worker tasks or something? |
| 22:38.10 | errstr | yup... throw some stuff on a queue, let workers take it off the queue |
| 22:49.27 | levi | Nifty. |
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