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| 16:11.38 | unum | http://www.freakonomics.com/2007/10/04/more-evidence-on-the-lack-of-impact-of-school-choice/ |
| 16:11.47 | unum | wow taht's an old article |
| 16:11.51 | unum | but it's new to me |
| 16:12.18 | unum | of course my favorite part is the part that supports the market for lemon theory |
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| 18:56.45 | Migs | http://jezebel.com/5923898/republican-horrified-to-discover-that-christianity-is-not-the-only-religion |
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| 18:58.37 | unum | that's the part of the voucher debate I really didn't understand. Why would I want to give money to the flds church? |
| 18:59.17 | unum | or rather why would I want my tax money to go to the flds church |
| 19:19.30 | manithree | unum: If the flds church ran a good school, I wouldn't care if my tax dollars paid for someone to attend it |
| 19:20.45 | unum | manithree: "good" was not a requirement of the law |
| 19:21.00 | unum | what ever good means |
| 19:21.26 | manithree | No, but somebody still chose to attend the school over other schools |
| 19:21.50 | unum | so, why I should I be required to support their decision? |
| 19:22.27 | manithree | Why should you be required to pay less for their education than if they attended public school? |
| 19:22.45 | unum | I support the public school system ran by people I vote for(at least used before the governor started picking them) |
| 19:22.59 | unum | I have a say in how the public school are ran, I have no say in how a private school is ran |
| 19:25.52 | manithree | Oh yeah, you're the one who made the argument that parents can't be trusted to make that decision, anyway |
| 19:26.27 | unum | yep, I posted a much better explanation 10:09 |
| 19:26.46 | unum | *a much better explanation than I can make at 10:09 |
| 19:26.53 | unum | it's the freakonomics blog |
| 19:27.04 | unum | actually a pretty old article but I stumbled across it today |
| 19:27.42 | manithree | I read the freakonomics blog, and that was only allowing choice between public schools in your home district. So that's irrelevant. |
| 19:29.23 | unum | it was about charter schools |
| 19:29.32 | unum | versus public schools |
| 19:29.53 | manithree | which are public schools, not religious schools, so completely irrelevant to flds schools |
| 19:30.04 | unum | the important part is :"Parents don’t have good information on the inputs to a school, only the outputs, so it is difficult for them to accurately assess value added." |
| 19:30.26 | unum | it's hard to make good choices, even if you are smart and well informed |
| 19:30.33 | unum | it's unlikely you'll have all the information you need |
| 19:30.47 | unum | though i'd argue anyone looking at the FLDS is probably not well informed |
| 19:30.52 | manithree | Well, duh. Still completely irrelevant to flds schools. |
| 19:31.02 | unum | it's relevant to all schools |
| 19:31.14 | manithree | Not the study. |
| 19:31.14 | unum | parents can not get the information they need to make the best decision |
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| 19:31.43 | manithree | No, some parents might not. |
| 19:32.02 | unum | my point about the article is that it made a good argument about why parents have trouble making good decision about where to place their kids |
| 19:32.26 | unum | anyways, why should I have to pay for a parent to make a bad decision |
| 19:32.34 | manithree | And that part of the article was all just speculation. |
| 19:32.36 | unum | we are already doing it with charter schools |
| 19:33.13 | unum | but the study that "better" schools did not lead to better outcomes was not speculation |
| 19:33.43 | manithree | Frequently, sending kids to public school is a really poor decision. Why is your judgement better than the parents. |
| 19:34.03 | manithree | unum: but the reasons for that were entirely speculatioin |
| 19:34.37 | unum | so you accept that the study stating schools that parent percieve as "better" do not produce better outcomes? |
| 19:34.57 | manithree | In one public school district, yes, I buy that |
| 19:35.37 | manithree | Generalizing that to say that the government always knows better than parents is what I take issue with |
| 19:35.41 | unum | including charter schools? |
| 19:35.46 | unum | I didn't say always. |
| 19:36.29 | manithree | So you don't oppose vouchers in some cases? |
| 19:37.40 | unum | the charter school approach may have some merit |
| 19:38.31 | unum | I have other problems with vouchers besides it leading to students being in worse schools |
| 19:40.34 | unum | of course charters schools have been shown to have worse results on average than publics school, but I'm optimistic things could be balanced |
| 19:41.01 | manithree | I also take issue with people who oppose vouchers because someone might choose to go to a catholic school just because they don't agree with what's taught. |
| 19:45.58 | unum | I have a right to influence what my tax money is used to teach |
| 19:46.11 | unum | and if I don't want it teaching that abortion is the same as murder |
| 19:46.23 | unum | I have a right to vote against that |
| 19:46.47 | unum | just as you have a right to vote to remove sex education form the public school curriculm |
| 19:46.59 | unum | I may call you crazy nutcase, but none the less you have the right |
| 19:48.53 | manithree | I just consider vouchers paying people off not to attend public school. How they spend it is their choice. It's like worrying about how government employees spend their paycheck. |
| 19:54.18 | unum | I provide that money to the government with the understanding that it will be used to prepare the next generation for the workforce |
| 19:54.27 | unum | if they're not going to use it for that, I want it back |
| 19:54.56 | unum | of course I want a lot of my money back, mostly the money that goes to by brothers to run DOD computers |
| 19:59.53 | unum | I'll share a little bit of iron with everyone here I don't think I've share before. I have 5 siblings my father passed away, my mother is still alived. I am the only liberal in my family. Out of 13 adults(siblings+inlaws) my wife and I are the only "big government" liberals. The others are "small government" conservatives 6 work for the federal government 3(including me) work in the private sector, 6 families have their health care provided by the federal g |
| 19:59.56 | keldwud | from bash how2 change all instances of X in all files in . to Y? |
| 20:00.00 | unum | s/iron/irony |
| 20:00.08 | unum | 6 carry guns at all times.... |
| 20:00.21 | keldwud | or best tool to do the job if not bash? |
| 20:00.24 | unum | keldwud: sure be on topic |
| 20:00.31 | unum | sed |
| 20:00.34 | keldwud | lol sorry :) |
| 20:00.35 | unum | sed with the -i option |
| 20:00.50 | keldwud | I didn't mean to interrupt story time, I wasn't watching, I just kind of barged in :) |
| 20:00.52 | unum | sed -i s/x/y * |
| 20:01.07 | keldwud | hmm, is now a good time for me to learn sed then? |
| 20:01.11 | unum | though I'd do it with out the -i first.... |
| 20:01.15 | keldwud | is it a task I learn quickly? |
| 20:01.22 | keldwud | *can |
| 20:01.25 | unum | do you know regular expressions? |
| 20:01.29 | keldwud | enough, yeah |
| 20:01.45 | keldwud | and I know how to use resources for the regex that I can't remember offhand |
| 20:01.53 | keldwud | mans sed |
| 20:07.12 | keldwud | http://www.grymoire.com/Unix/Sed.html |
| 20:09.08 | ldav15 | TL;DR -- http://sed.sourceforge.net/sed1line.txt |
| 20:10.20 | keldwud | hah, that might be useful for me after I figure out what is really going on with all of those :-p |
| 20:10.49 | keldwud | wait, so I just type sed G and it double spaces all the files in that folder? |
| 20:10.53 | keldwud | folder/path |
| 20:11.27 | keldwud | also, this sed thing... it's kind of sexy to me |
| 20:11.29 | keldwud | is that weird? |
| 20:11.45 | keldwud | looking at these tutorials somewhat excites me |
| 20:12.36 | manithree | https://xkcd.com/208/ |
| 20:15.04 | ldav15 | keldwud: 'sed G foo.txt' just doublespaces 'foo.txt'. For all of them 'sed -i G *' would doublespace all the files. |
| 20:15.16 | keldwud | oooh, ok |
| 20:15.22 | ldav15 | and save them to the original filename |
| 20:15.23 | keldwud | I was trying to find -i in the man page but couldn't |
| 20:15.47 | keldwud | ah, okay, so I get it now |
| 20:15.49 | ldav15 | It's a GNU sed extension |
| 20:15.55 | keldwud | the sed -i s/x/y * |
| 20:16.03 | keldwud | that's quite the powerful tool there |
| 20:16.13 | ldav15 | Yes, it is. |
| 20:16.58 | keldwud | oh but it puts the output on the screen? |
| 20:17.10 | keldwud | so I should redirect that if I don't want or need to see the results |
| 20:17.23 | keldwud | oh n/m |
| 20:17.27 | keldwud | I forgot the -i switch |
| 20:17.55 | ldav15 | Yeah, otherwise it won't write the files, just blast them to stdout. |
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| 20:22.16 | keldwud | ldav15: aahh ok :) |
| 20:22.20 | keldwud | cool beans |
| 20:22.42 | keldwud | people have tried to get me to sed before, but I just wasn't quite ready for it because I wanted to learn some more bash first |
| 20:22.46 | keldwud | but I think I'm ready for it now :) |
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| 20:38.30 | keldwud | ooh, so I could do the sed command without the -i to make sure I am seeing the intended result and if it matches up with my expectations, then I can add the -i option? |
| 20:43.21 | ldav15 | Sure. If you want, you can even use 'sed -ibak' to write a "backup copy" which you can diff against the original. |
| 20:46.35 | keldwud | hmm, I'm going to try to get sed -i s/foo.bar/lahdeedah/ to also apply to file names |
| 20:46.46 | keldwud | is that non-dangerous and hopefully trivial? |
| 20:48.12 | keldwud | or I guess I could just use rename |
| 20:48.15 | keldwud | or prename |
| 20:48.26 | keldwud | I was getting ambitious and wanting to do it all in one line |
| 20:48.31 | keldwud | that's a bad habit |
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| 21:52.13 | jlp_znc | if you want to get that fancy, abandon sed and go straight to perl :-) |
| 21:52.50 | jlp_znc | I just found something terribly horrific with python. I love it and hate it at the same time. |
| 21:59.30 | levi | What terribly horrific thing did you find? |
| 22:04.08 | youtah | I <3 nachos |
| 22:04.45 | youtah | Yes, I am interested to hear was is horribly horrific with python jlp_znc |
| 22:05.42 | youtah | btw, we are no longer closing on Thursday. They just said it will be Impossible. |
| 22:06.19 | youtah | They are going to sand the entire ceiling, Skim it twice, re-texture and repaint the ceiling for the living room, dining room and Kitchen./ |
| 22:06.33 | youtah | They are also replacing the carpets in the living room. |
| 22:07.22 | youtah | The builder was also, really pushing for Thursday as well, but now that it is being pushed into next week, that means they have to make one more payment on the construction loan. |
| 22:07.43 | youtah | It also pushes us out of our locked rate. So they are paying the penalty fee to extending the lock. |
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| 22:20.21 | jlp_znc | sorry, wasn't paying attention tothe window. |
| 22:20.30 | jlp_znc | here's the horrific thing: |
| 22:20.39 | jlp_znc | you know how if you do something like this: |
| 22:20.45 | jlp_znc | for i in 1 2 3: |
| 22:20.48 | jlp_znc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:20.58 | jlp_znc | you get 1 2 and 3 on lines by themselves? |
| 22:21.14 | jlp_znc | well, let's say you want them all on the same line... |
| 22:21.17 | jlp_znc | try this: |
| 22:21.21 | jlp_znc | for i in 1 2 3: |
| 22:21.24 | jlp_znc | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:21.51 | jlp_znc | observe the horrific trailing comma that suppresses the automatic newline that print would normally add |
| 22:21.59 | jlp_znc | I love it and hate it at the same time |
| 22:22.07 | jlp_znc | it's very un-python-like |
| 22:22.43 | youtah | bpython is telling me that at 2 there is a syntax error |
| 22:23.01 | jlp_znc | bpython is lying to you |
| 22:23.11 | jlp_znc | okay, not really |
| 22:23.13 | jlp_znc | :-) |
| 22:23.20 | jlp_znc | for i in (1, 2, 3): then |
| 22:23.33 | youtah | lol |
| 22:23.34 | jlp_znc | or is that [1, 2, 3] |
| 22:23.58 | tima | (1..3).each{|i| puts i} |
| 22:24.02 | tima | too much ruby |
| 22:24.09 | jlp_znc | ick |
| 22:24.20 | youtah | ^ |
| 22:25.03 | jlp_znc | wanna know the really horrific thing about the trailing comma? |
| 22:25.22 | jlp_znc | it doesn't put a newline, but it *does* put spaces between them!!! |
| 22:25.48 | jlp_znc | because, hey, you used a comma, which means you have more than one thing, which means you want spaces between them, right? |
| 22:25.52 | jlp_znc | riiiiiiight |
| 22:26.08 | jlp_znc | isn't that right, there, ah, spock-o? |
| 22:26.16 | youtah | yeah |
| 22:26.19 | youtah | I just noticed that too |
| 22:26.24 | jlp_znc | riiiiight? |
| 22:26.37 | jlp_znc | riiiiight |
| 22:26.59 | youtah | http://pastebin.com/GTqUPT4J |
| 22:28.33 | jlp_znc | >>> for i in (1, 2, 3): |
| 22:28.34 | jlp_znc | ... print i, |
| 22:28.34 | jlp_znc | ... |
| 22:28.34 | jlp_znc | 1 2 3 |
| 22:28.42 | jlp_znc | woot! |
| 22:28.52 | jlp_znc | python! |
| 22:28.53 | youtah | yeah, you can use () or [] |
| 22:29.00 | jlp_znc | p-p-p-python! |
| 22:29.12 | jlp_znc | gooooooooooooo, python! |
| 22:29.28 | jlp_znc | (that's go, not goo) |
| 22:29.37 | jlp_znc | although goo probably works. |
| 22:30.40 | jlp_znc | ooey gooey was a worm |
| 22:30.43 | jlp_znc | a mighty worm was he |
| 22:30.50 | jlp_znc | he crawled upon the railroad tracks |
| 22:30.55 | jlp_znc | the train, he did not see. |
| 22:31.00 | jlp_znc | ooey gooey! |
| 22:37.33 | youtah | lol |
| 22:46.18 | youtah | do I dare post something politically charged and then leave the room? |
| 22:47.32 | fugue88 | Trailing comma? So BASIC. |
| 22:47.44 | fugue88 | youtah: Do it! |
| 22:50.07 | keldwud | ^ |
| 22:50.16 | keldwud | here, I'll start |
| 22:50.37 | keldwud | TRADE IN YOUR GUNS FOR FREE ABORTIONS! |
| 22:50.41 | keldwud | parts |
| 22:51.37 | fugue88 | youtah: Top that ^ |
| 22:52.21 | Yorokobi | Don't forget to donate the fetus to science to aid in stem cell research. |
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| 22:56.57 | youtah | https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/999580_10153142456645494_991263339_n.jpg |
| 22:57.08 | youtah | there ya go fugue88 and keldwud |
| 22:57.11 | youtah | :-) |
| 22:57.21 | youtah | dives behind the couch and puts on his helmet |
| 22:59.19 | keldwud | peanuts is controversial? |
| 22:59.28 | keldwud | oh nice |
| 22:59.40 | keldwud | it *was* an allusion to abortion :) |
| 23:00.08 | keldwud | wait wat? |
| 23:00.09 | keldwud | 2013? |
| 23:00.13 | keldwud | this isn't charles shulz |
| 23:00.19 | keldwud | he's dead |
| 23:00.43 | keldwud | was charles shultz always so.... christian-american? |
| 23:01.07 | keldwud | and here's my response, which will also be controversial |
| 23:01.13 | keldwud | I won't allow my daughter in homes that have guns |
| 23:01.33 | keldwud | and I won't allow her to go out with people who carry guns |
| 23:01.44 | keldwud | because people don't practice gun safety |
| 23:06.13 | youtah | Pools are like 5,000 times more dangerous than guns. Yet I bet you wouldn't blink an eye at sending your kid to a neighbors house that has a pool. |
| 23:06.35 | keldwud | oh snap ;) |
| 23:06.44 | youtah | :-) |
| 23:06.55 | keldwud | lemme think about that for a second |
| 23:07.19 | youtah | Careful, I have an NRA membership and I know how to use it! |
| 23:07.21 | keldwud | okay, you're right. my daughter could be instakilled if she were running around the pool |
| 23:07.24 | keldwud | and slipped and hit her head |
| 23:07.44 | keldwud | and you know what, automobiles are also more dangerous |
| 23:07.46 | keldwud | than guns |
| 23:07.52 | youtah | Exactly |
| 23:07.58 | youtah | "Every day, about ten people die from unintentional drowning. Of these, two are children aged 14 or younger. Drowning ranks fifth among the leading causes of unintentional injury death in the United States." |
| 23:08.01 | keldwud | what do I gain by allowing her in homes that have guns? |
| 23:08.12 | youtah | Protection. |
| 23:08.19 | youtah | Security |
| 23:08.37 | keldwud | so I am basically abusing my child by not allowing her into homes with guns? |
| 23:08.45 | keldwud | because I am denying her those two things? |
| 23:08.50 | keldwud | or can I have those two things without guns? |
| 23:09.16 | youtah | nope, just because I said that a car is red, doesn't mean that I hate all the other colors |
| 23:09.16 | keldwud | do I have to be a member before I can have protection and security? |
| 23:09.22 | keldwud | bah, you weren't distracted by my straw man |
| 23:09.22 | keldwud | :-p |
| 23:09.49 | youtah | has debated guns quite extensively |
| 23:09.53 | keldwud | I've already taught her to play with toy guns without a finger on the trigger and never to point them at anyone and never to look in the barrel |
| 23:10.00 | keldwud | as a precaution |
| 23:10.03 | youtah | ^ key is education |
| 23:10.09 | keldwud | because really, many people I've met that own guns |
| 23:10.13 | keldwud | they are illiterate |
| 23:10.16 | keldwud | and they are unsafe |
| 23:10.23 | keldwud | I'm not saying gun owners are that way |
| 23:10.39 | keldwud | I'm saying that I don't trust my child around somebody who owns a gun *and* is functionally illiterate |
| 23:10.55 | keldwud | and she isn't losing anything by me taking that precaution |
| 23:11.05 | youtah | and in the future, when she's older and out of your control, she'll be educated and can take that with her, in the millions of locations that she'll be in. Homes, Work, School, Nature, Etc |
| 23:11.32 | keldwud | I also tell her to come to me if somebody wants to show her a gun when there isn't an adult around |
| 23:11.37 | keldwud | well, to be specific for now, me |
| 23:11.51 | keldwud | because again, just because somebody owns a gun, doesn't mean they are safe people |
| 23:11.58 | youtah | Sounds similair to what Eddie the Eagle teaches kids in the NRA |
| 23:12.03 | keldwud | the gun doesn't make them safe or secure or protected just because they have a gun |
| 23:12.12 | youtah | Tell an adult, period. Don't touch, and always assume it's loaded |
| 23:12.13 | keldwud | and I'm not anti-gun |
| 23:12.18 | keldwud | I just don't want my kid around them |
| 23:12.27 | keldwud | which is a pretty rational thing |
| 23:12.30 | keldwud | if you ask me |
| 23:12.45 | youtah | you realize she's probably around guns all the time? even in school? |
| 23:13.05 | youtah | since teachers have been legally carrying concealed weapons in the state of Utah for over a decade? |
| 23:13.22 | *** join/#utah pdayton (~pjdayton@67.21.63.152) |
| 23:13.24 | youtah | have been allowed to legally carry, assuming they have a permit |
| 23:14.18 | stderr- | eh, I'm big on the 2nd amendment, but I don't like the idea that teachers whose gun knowledge I'm unsure of have guns around my daughters |
| 23:14.46 | youtah | or anyone that you're unsure of? |
| 23:14.57 | stderr- | pretty much. |
| 23:14.58 | youtah | Grocery Stores, Malls, Highway, Camping, etc.... |
| 23:15.02 | stderr- | yes. |
| 23:15.03 | keldwud | I said homes |
| 23:15.08 | youtah | Homes |
| 23:15.10 | keldwud | :-p |
| 23:15.11 | youtah | any of those |
| 23:15.22 | stderr- | Correct. |
| 23:15.51 | youtah | WOO HOO! |
| 23:15.57 | youtah | Just got from RAM. |
| 23:16.01 | stderr- | I carry, but I'm extremely wary about anyone else who does. The arguments for protection are ridiculous, since you're right, drowning is a leading cause in children's deaths. I don't need lifeguards following my kids around either. |
| 23:16.36 | stderr- | the chances of my kids being killed by violence is extremely slim. |
| 23:16.55 | youtah | You should be extremely wary about who your children are around period. Not just regarding firearms. |
| 23:17.14 | stderr- | so the argument for teachers to be armed is feeding off of the same "OH MY GODZ" that hippie liberals spread around, just for the other side of the argument. |
| 23:18.12 | youtah | We should never arm a teacher. Period. We should let them choose, for themselves, to carry if they please. Their decision. |
| 23:18.49 | youtah | To force a teacher to carry a firearm is extremely dangerous. Chances are they will be afraid of it and not properly educate themselves |
| 23:18.55 | youtah | increasing the likelyhood of an accident. |
| 23:19.10 | stderr- | The choice to carry doesn't imply any sort of proper self education. Don't delude yourself. |
| 23:19.26 | youtah | No, but if they're more likely to go to a range and learn how to use it |
| 23:19.46 | youtah | versus Mrs. Sally who was told to carry a gun, and never shoots it, or goes to classes, because she's scared of it |
| 23:19.49 | stderr- | Going to a range doesn't really imply any sort of proper gun training, either. |
| 23:20.31 | youtah | familiarization with the weapon you carry is only a fraction |
| 23:22.01 | youtah | I'd personally love to see some of the sections of Hunters Education be taught in the education program. They teach you a bunch of things about safety. Things I think everyone should learn and practice. Tell an adult if you find one. Treat all firearms as if they're loaded. Never point it at anything you don't want to shoot. etc... |
| 23:23.09 | youtah | and cover perhaps somethings you would never think of. Such as different formations when hunting. Or never shoot a body of water, as bullets will ricochet, etc. |
| 23:23.21 | stderr- | I agree. |
| 23:23.36 | youtah | anyway, gotta step AFK.... |
| 23:40.13 | *** join/#utah d3c4f_work (~d3c4f@198.183.219.10) |
