| 00:20.43 | youtah | http://imgur.com/a/WAV1U?gallery |
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| 03:05.43 | shalkie | Murray has denied further funding for UTOPIA. |
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| 03:09.53 | spangborn | shalkie: ouch. |
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| 03:16.16 | findlay | lamerz |
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| 03:37.16 | Q_Continuum | DAMNIT |
| 03:37.20 | Q_Continuum | YOU FORGOT TO REMIND US TO SHOW UP |
| 03:37.25 | Q_Continuum | Shit. |
| 03:37.33 | Q_Continuum | So what does this mean for Murray Utopia? |
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| 03:37.51 | Q_Continuum | Or what impact does it have? Just apply to Murray, or UTOPIA as a whole? |
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| 04:07.52 | eightyeight | no surprise, really |
| 04:08.04 | eightyeight | it sucks, but it's been long coming |
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| 07:01.21 | shalkie | It means that this round of funding request was denied. The council did encourage UTOPIA to come back with other proposals. |
| 07:02.39 | shalkie | I don't believe it actually impacts any current plans regarding building out Murray. |
| 07:02.53 | shalkie | Unless they run out of money of course. :-) |
| 07:03.07 | shalkie | I expect they are floating similiar requests to the other member cities. |
| 07:03.30 | shalkie | So depending on how things go there it may or may not be important. |
| 07:04.59 | shalkie | There were a lot of people talking about this being the government picking winners and losers, and to a lesser degree taxation without representation. |
| 07:05.54 | shalkie | But that last argument seemed to die with the revelation that the bond was funded with sales tax. |
| 07:11.56 | shalkie | Q_Continuum: I was suppose to remind everyone? |
| 07:11.59 | shalkie | blinks |
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| 15:24.05 | skrike | how about that pm2.5? |
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| 16:11.23 | Q_Continuum | Hrm? |
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| 16:13.18 | skrike | just making air quality small talk |
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| 16:24.22 | Q_Continuum | Ah. |
| 16:24.28 | Q_Continuum | isn't used to air-quality talk |
| 16:24.47 | Q_Continuum | Back in MN if you couldn't see it was A) Rain B) Snow C) Sleet D) Fog. |
| 16:24.49 | Q_Continuum | Not smog. |
| 16:28.01 | skrike | welcome to rio tinto country |
| 16:31.47 | jima | understood pm2.5 = 2.5 particles per million of contaminates...or something. |
| 16:32.24 | skrike | yeah how many particles over 2.5 micrograms in size (or something) in a cubic meter of air (or something) |
| 16:34.10 | jima | Q_Continuum: itym a) snow b) rain c) fog d) sleet |
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| 16:34.17 | jima | (i think that's the order) |
| 16:35.24 | youtah | I actually think that Rio Tinto is one of the cleanest of the polluters in the valley |
| 16:36.25 | youtah | I think SLTtrib did an article on it a while back. When the new museum at the UofU was opened. There were a bunch of protesters there, protesting because Rio Tinto donated a huge chunk of the funding |
| 16:36.29 | skrike | youtah: I keep hearing different stats, supposedly traffic is 50% and mining/drilling is about 30% |
| 16:36.44 | youtah | and they looked into it and found that they are actually rather clean |
| 16:37.18 | youtah | yeah, I heard some stat that water heaters alone (gas exhaust) took like a whole 5% alone |
| 16:37.28 | skrike | the problem is its not about the amount of particulate matter, its the size of it. when its larger than 2.5 its gets into your lungs and causes chromosomal damage |
| 16:37.29 | youtah | just because so many people hang onto their older water heaters |
| 16:38.19 | youtah | I wonder if someone has done a major breakdown of it recently |
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| 16:39.42 | skrike | http://www.reddit.com/r/SaltLakeCity/comments/18swaa/utah_worst_pollution_in_the_country/c8i6q7l |
| 16:39.55 | youtah | thx |
| 16:39.57 | errstr | http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/55861199-90/alliance-basin-gas-http.html.csp <-- most recent study released about pollution in utah |
| 16:40.06 | youtah | I'm not finding anything, my google foo is off |
| 16:40.45 | youtah | errstr that's for the Uintah basin |
| 16:41.00 | youtah | s/Uintah/Uinta/ |
| 16:41.33 | errstr | didn't realize we were only talking about the wasatch front valley area |
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| 16:43.10 | youtah | The northern half |
| 16:43.24 | youtah | but it looks like them there Vernal peeps did a good job |
| 16:44.42 | youtah | Whoa... if you spot a "smoking vehicle" you can call 385-468-SMOG |
| 16:44.44 | youtah | to report it |
| 16:45.08 | youtah | Page 37 http://www.airquality.utah.gov/Public-Interest/annual-report/.pdf/2012Annual%20Report.pdf |
| 16:47.59 | youtah | http://www.airquality.utah.gov/Public-Interest/Current-Issues/pm2.5/pdf/sept2011/UDAQ%20Presentation%20Salt%20Lake_9.9.11(2).pdf check out the Modeled PM2.5 Concentrations slide |
| 16:52.16 | youtah | gives up |
| 16:52.20 | youtah | has stuff to do |
| 16:52.34 | skrike | like pasting links to twitter into irc all day? |
| 16:52.41 | skrike | SOLVE ALL THE PROBLEMS NOW |
| 16:54.17 | youtah | http://i.qkme.me/3t2i0r.jpg |
| 16:55.12 | skrike | http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu54/A_Friendly_Dispenser/Humorous/Comics/Watchmen/AdviceRorschach1.png |
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| 16:58.08 | Q_Continuum | youtah: Can I call the 'smoking vehicle' hotline for those that make me gag in my car from their exhaust? |
| 16:58.15 | Q_Continuum | Like the FEDEX truck yesterday? |
| 16:58.51 | youtah | I believe so, yes. |
| 16:59.49 | youtah | buries his head into his work. |
| 17:09.35 | findlay | ~solve everything |
| 17:09.35 | ibot | ACTION grits her teeth while attempting to solve everything |
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| 17:28.22 | mahelious | getting a new computer case today. its like christmas. dont even know why i am at work today. |
| 17:34.33 | youtah | +1 mahelious |
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| 19:26.18 | youtah | Thoughts? http://tech.woot.com/ I have always heard Buffalo was good |
| 19:32.08 | Migs | Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo |
| 19:33.54 | sjuxax | skeptical any home router setup is worth that price. I have a Buffalo that I put OpenWRT on and I just use it for wired/bridging from the modem, I have a wireless card in my big computer with detachable antenna, bought a big external directional corner antenna, and use hostapd from my machine to provide wireless |
| 19:33.58 | sjuxax | works much more reliably |
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| 19:42.52 | mahelious | i spent about that much on a dlink router and bridge |
| 19:43.00 | mahelious | just wish i had gotten another bridge |
| 19:44.01 | Q_Continuum | Stupid support. "The cache and batteries should no be an issue, since their only purpose is to add extra features to the controller and do not have any impact on the current issue." Yeah, we'd already replaced the card those modules went into...same issue. Guess what happened when we replaced the cache module? |
| 19:44.07 | mahelious | (the pain of 5GHz is very little supports it, but 802.11n on 5 with jumboframes is sweet) |
| 19:45.04 | Q_Continuum | So tempted to order that combo... |
| 19:45.50 | youtah | yeah,. but the WRT is like... 12 years old |
| 19:45.54 | Q_Continuum | ^ |
| 19:46.01 | Q_Continuum | And b/g 10/100 only |
| 19:46.12 | Q_Continuum | Buffalo's stuff is (I think) the spiritual successor |
| 19:47.00 | youtah | and like it says.... It's low in cholesterol, high in protein! |
| 19:47.27 | goozbach | like the fact I can do my own firmware |
| 19:47.28 | youtah | "And because Buffalo are raised on grass, you won't have to worry about artifical hormones or additives. Learn what our Native American cousins have known for thousands of years: when you're looking for high-speed, high-nourishment wireless networking, go where the Buffalo roam." |
| 19:47.40 | goozbach | not a big fan of not being able to extend/change the antenna |
| 19:48.22 | youtah | Good to know sjuxax, thx for the info |
| 19:49.34 | youtah | and this would go well with the new Fiber Optics I will be getting at my new house :-) |
| 19:50.09 | sjuxax | Yeah the WRT is outmoded now. OpenWRT has a good list of recommended models. |
| 19:50.45 | Q_Continuum | The Buffalo I had my folks pick up came with DDWRT IIRC as the 'professional' firmware. |
| 19:51.06 | Q_Continuum | Jumped through the menus not long after that, dang beefy options. |
| 19:51.07 | youtah | When I see WRT, I instantly think of the Linksys WRT54G Router |
| 19:51.17 | Q_Continuum | Heh |
| 19:51.22 | Q_Continuum | I left all mine in MN with my brother |
| 19:51.30 | Q_Continuum | I had 3 |
| 19:51.43 | Q_Continuum | jima's managed 1-2 dozen of them over the years |
| 19:51.45 | youtah | I had like 4 of them, they are in all of my family members homes now |
| 19:52.03 | youtah | just still packeting along |
| 19:54.00 | youtah | http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/showpost.php?s=66b460d1c90a088d2453b10fbdb5acb2&p=52345&postcount=3 |
| 19:54.52 | findlay | solve maxwell's equations for the boundary condition of the antenna to find the radial electromagnetic dispersion pattern as a function of wavenumbers l,m,n |
| 19:55.06 | jima | i'm pretty happy with openwrt on buffalo, yep. |
| 19:55.07 | Q_Continuum | Dang, someone says the router isn't compatible with tomato or ddwrt firmwares |
| 19:56.16 | youtah | Oh yeah Jima... well I'm still using an COTS D-Link..... |
| 19:56.33 | youtah | (ok, I did disable a few things in it, for security reasons....) |
| 19:56.51 | jima | <3 openwrt |
| 19:57.10 | jima | but then, i use my router for openvpn, ipv6 tunnel termination, tons of port-forwarding... |
| 19:57.23 | jima | eightyeight: :-| |
| 19:57.37 | youtah | I would love to remotely VPN into my network at home, once I get FO |
| 19:58.26 | jima | yeah, i do that. |
| 19:58.55 | youtah | right now, I am on the lowest Comcast interwebs plan available until I sell the house |
| 20:02.42 | Q_Continuum | Right now I use PuTTY/ssh and LogMeIn |
| 20:02.49 | Q_Continuum | I haven't set up VPN-stuff to my stack (yet) |
| 20:03.05 | jima | Q_Continuum: i still don't get why you don't just use my vpn :-P |
| 20:03.29 | Q_Continuum | Because doing it myself on my server as opposed to yours means I learn both ends of it :-P |
| 20:03.35 | jima | 1) install openvpn on your laptop (ideally the one that supports ipv6), 2) get files from me, 3) use vpn |
| 20:04.00 | Q_Continuum | All my laptops support IPv6 |
| 20:04.06 | Q_Continuum | Their network connectivity, however... |
| 20:04.12 | jima | tries to fathom why Q would want to vpn to a server rather than the router |
| 20:04.33 | Q_Continuum | wasn't aware it went direct-to-router, didn't fully parse the line above |
| 20:04.45 | youtah | Thats what she said |
| 20:04.45 | jima | you haven't set up a new AD domain since replacing your vm server, have you? |
| 20:04.59 | youtah | will see himself out now |
| 20:05.01 | Q_Continuum | I have not. I did update the VM I was intending for that |
| 20:05.08 | jima | 12:57 < jima> but then, i use my router for openvpn, ipv6 tunnel termination, tons of port-forwarding... |
| 20:05.23 | Q_Continuum | Yes I saw that but didn't fully parse the line in brain. |
| 20:05.29 | youtah | Thats what she said |
| 20:05.29 | Q_Continuum | CANNOT BRAIN TODAY, HAS TEH DUMB |
| 20:05.35 | jima | get a brain, moran! |
| 20:05.44 | Q_Continuum | finds rocks to lob downhill at youtah |
| 20:05.50 | Q_Continuum | Wait. |
| 20:05.58 | Q_Continuum | jima, do we have any dell hardware that is decomm'd? |
| 20:06.02 | youtah | patiently waits for another "Thats what she said" moment... not that it's stopped him before anyway |
| 20:06.04 | jima | (ok, i know you're not a moran, but you are descended from the people of mora) |
| 20:06.11 | Q_Continuum | lol |
| 20:06.19 | jima | Q_Continuum: ...no? why? |
| 20:06.25 | jima | oh |
| 20:06.27 | Q_Continuum | jima: To lob downhill at youtah. |
| 20:06.37 | jima | we have frank's old sff desktop...that's even dell. |
| 20:06.40 | youtah | lob bacon please |
| 20:06.40 | Q_Continuum | As rocks are (mostly) further uphill, except the engraved ones. |
| 20:07.04 | Q_Continuum | Damnit I'm gonna have to find a can of spraypaint to write 'bacon' on the rocks now |
| 20:07.06 | jima | throw galileo's rock |
| 20:07.09 | Q_Continuum | haha |
| 20:07.19 | jima | or chg's |
| 20:07.30 | jima | actually, just throw all of the rocks until we get our own |
| 20:07.32 | youtah | can I catch said rock with a baseball mit? |
| 20:07.34 | jima | don't throw that one |
| 20:07.35 | Q_Continuum | \o/ |
| 20:07.42 | Q_Continuum | youtah: You're welcome to try |
| 20:07.50 | jima | youtah: depends on your definition of "catch" |
| 20:07.51 | Q_Continuum | Gonna need to be a big mitt though |
| 20:08.04 | jima | can the rock hit the mitt? sure. |
| 20:08.04 | youtah | like a Romney kind? |
| 20:08.13 | jima | will the mitt stop the rock? not so likely. |
| 20:08.17 | youtah | or an even bigger mitt? |
| 20:08.19 | Q_Continuum | The ones jima is referring to are big enough you can read whats on them as you climb the hill via highway |
| 20:08.31 | Q_Continuum | You know the ones. |
| 20:08.33 | youtah | ah, yeah.... |
| 20:11.34 | youtah | So, apparently DD-WRT does not support WPS |
| 20:11.56 | wps | it's hard for me… without it's support |
| 20:11.57 | youtah | making reaver attacks impossible |
| 20:12.07 | youtah | lol |
| 20:12.08 | spangborn | Mhmm |
| 20:12.23 | youtah | Poor wps, getting attacked by Reavers all the time |
| 20:12.29 | wps | :( |
| 20:12.33 | spangborn | If you want to try to attack my ddwrt router, have at it |
| 20:13.20 | jima | i think openwrt supports wps? |
| 20:13.28 | jima | i forget. danged if i know. |
| 20:13.45 | spangborn | Why do you want WPS? |
| 20:13.56 | wps | this is getting awkward |
| 20:14.30 | jima | ... |
| 20:14.37 | youtah | I dont want WPS |
| 20:14.43 | youtah | I want to stay away from WPS |
| 20:15.03 | jima | backpedal, backpedal. |
| 20:15.19 | youtah | Know what they call a Baby Reaver? |
| 20:15.21 | spangborn | Haha |
| 20:15.25 | spangborn | WPS? |
| 20:15.35 | youtah | no, just a baby Reaver |
| 20:15.48 | spangborn | his his three ddwrt devices |
| 20:16.02 | spangborn | S/his/hugs/ |
| 20:16.16 | youtah | from earlier in the convo, The first thing I do after changing the admin password, is disabling WPS |
| 20:16.17 | spangborn | Typing on my phone is not conducive to IRC |
| 20:16.28 | jima | i only support...two openwrt devices these days. |
| 20:16.29 | youtah | going back to his COTS D-Link router |
| 20:16.43 | jima | used to be ~25 or so |
| 20:16.58 | spangborn | I've got three Cisco boxes running DD-WRT for home. |
| 20:16.59 | jima | oh, technically i have openwrt on a few non-routers |
| 20:17.11 | jima | what the heck cisco boxes run ddwrt? |
| 20:17.21 | spangborn | Wrt150n? |
| 20:17.28 | jima | oh... "cisco" |
| 20:17.33 | jima | i thought you meant cisco |
| 20:17.33 | spangborn | Haha, yes |
| 20:17.38 | cwj | linkcisco |
| 20:17.51 | Q_Continuum | You mean the division Cisco is desperately trying to rid itself of? |
| 20:18.03 | jima | sorry, i've got a 3925isr and an as5400 in the next room, and an asa5520 under my desk at home...i talk about cisco. |
| 20:18.08 | Q_Continuum | Shortly after they remotely "upgraded" all their consumer devices to use their Cloud Login System? |
| 20:18.12 | youtah | I like the Crisco routers myself |
| 20:18.37 | spangborn | Yeah, these were ddwrt before that fiasco, thankfully. |
| 20:18.45 | mahelious | youtah: i knew i wasnt the only one who thought that |
| 20:18.58 | spangborn | My main reason for ddwrt'ing them? Because I can. ;p |
| 20:19.08 | youtah | mahelious they're hard to get your hands on, slippery buggers |
| 20:19.10 | jima | oh hey, today is wednesday. i get to install the two ciscos tomorrow. |
| 20:19.28 | jima | and do the insane polycom upgrade |
| 20:19.43 | jima | the one where the appliance goes from windows server 2003 under the hood to linux. |
| 20:20.05 | spangborn | I have massive respect for real network guys |
| 20:20.11 | spangborn | You guys are nuts. |
| 20:20.29 | jima | who? |
| 20:20.49 | spangborn | The collective group of network guys |
| 20:20.57 | jima | who's that in here? |
| 20:22.01 | findlay | band name |
| 20:22.06 | findlay | I called it |
| 20:22.15 | jima | \o/ |
| 20:22.41 | jima | at their concerts, you're supposed to hold up network testers instead of lighters |
| 20:23.06 | youtah | a little slice of fiber optics with an LED/Battery at one end? |
| 20:23.41 | Q_Continuum | Cat'5e Tails |
| 20:23.46 | Q_Continuum | Maybe 6 or 7 now |
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| 20:26.03 | youtah | http://imgur.com/gallery/zNWmEWi |
| 20:27.05 | spangborn | I just saw this in another channel and cannot decipher it. |
| 20:27.15 | spangborn | "Ok i have the 4S in outknow status i just wonder if i use the findmyphone .app to errase it. That could help me restore to a legit fw with out lossing temporarly some services?" |
| 20:27.26 | spangborn | Hurts my head. |
| 20:27.39 | youtah | It's a picture of a Scubaru |
| 20:27.47 | youtah | aka the SS WRX model |
| 20:27.56 | jima | looked |
| 20:28.15 | spangborn | Haha |
| 20:29.20 | spangborn | It needs a snorkel |
| 20:29.25 | spangborn | Like a jeep. |
| 20:29.38 | jima | subaru, go home. you are drunk. |
| 20:29.46 | youtah | Iced over |
| 20:33.36 | *** join/#utah pdayton (~pjdayton@67.21.63.152) |
| 20:36.33 | youtah | THIS is why I want to upgrade my Mobo.... See how much DDR2 would cost me to upgrade to 16GB? (also maxing out my mobo) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231302 |
| 20:43.13 | Q_Continuum | youtah: I'm in the same damn boat. |
| 20:43.39 | Q_Continuum | Cheaper to buy a mobo, 2x8GB (or 4x8GB) and a CPU. |
| 20:43.42 | spangborn | Dance Dance Revolution 3 ftw |
| 20:43.50 | Q_Continuum | Ooooh, free 32GB flash drive with purchase! |
| 20:43.52 | Q_Continuum | Worth all of $20 |
| 20:44.21 | youtah | i7 maxes out at 6 cores? |
| 20:44.24 | youtah | had no idea |
| 20:44.37 | jima | grumbles and looks into resizing an ext4 partition. |
| 20:44.55 | youtah | jima, buy this for me http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116491 |
| 20:45.17 | jima | hahahahahahaha |
| 20:45.24 | jima | no. |
| 20:45.44 | youtah | hey, it's the least you could do for throwing rocks at me.... |
| 20:45.45 | Q_Continuum | That is more expensive than the Xeon I picked out today. And we'll be buying 16! (In blades) |
| 20:46.44 | jima | what makes that especially better than, say, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113284 |
| 20:47.08 | Q_Continuum | Its an Intel. I dunno. |
| 20:47.10 | youtah | Shiznits |
| 20:47.29 | youtah | 5/5 with 415 reviews |
| 20:47.31 | Q_Continuum | jima: only 8 cores versus 12 threads on the i7? |
| 20:47.36 | Q_Continuum | would get the AMD |
| 20:47.51 | Q_Continuum | epeen size? |
| 20:47.57 | jima | brb, shutting down utility vm |
| 20:49.25 | youtah | http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/363901-28-intel-core-3770-8350 |
| 20:50.58 | youtah | http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/697?vs=551 |
| 20:51.30 | youtah | you'd be able to zip the #%$@%$ outta files |
| 20:51.56 | spangborn | zip --shit stuff.zip * |
| 20:52.21 | Q_Continuum | Yeah, I'd still take the AMD :-P |
| 20:52.52 | Q_Continuum | Although sadly they haven't updated the chipsets for the non-APUs in awhile, so the many boards really available come without an IGP these days :-/ |
| 20:53.11 | Q_Continuum | Nobody released boards with the 980g chipset, to the point I had people claim that chipset didn't exist. |
| 20:54.06 | Q_Continuum | Save the money on the CPU and get MOAR RAM |
| 20:54.08 | Q_Continuum | because MOAR |
| 20:54.25 | youtah | god point |
| 20:54.28 | youtah | good |
| 20:54.40 | youtah | I would be using it for Photos/Video |
| 20:55.01 | Q_Continuum | Also, quite a few things are still compiled not-optimized-for-AMD and new chips |
| 20:55.15 | Q_Continuum | On the Linux side folks have seen huge speed increases when they recompile for the chip |
| 20:55.17 | spangborn | Woot had a semidecent AMD box with DDR3 the other day |
| 21:00.37 | unum | http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8924593/match-fixing-soccer |
| 21:09.21 | ezakimak | http://devour.com/video/miniatur-wunderland/ |
| 21:12.31 | youtah | ezakimak dude, at 2:15... are they doing what I think they are doing? |
| 21:12.43 | ezakimak | lol |
| 21:12.50 | ezakimak | and again in the van later |
| 21:14.43 | youtah | lol, don't forget the lady in the window (2:57). ROFL 3:57, is that the van one you're talking about? |
| 21:15.07 | ezakimak | the one that's rockin' ? |
| 21:15.10 | youtah | yeah |
| 21:15.13 | ezakimak | yes |
| 21:15.42 | youtah | lol, they even had the squeeking |
| 21:15.58 | ezakimak | did you see the girl lifting the horse? |
| 21:15.58 | youtah | 13,000 liters of water |
| 21:16.02 | youtah | yeah |
| 21:17.11 | ezakimak | i wonder how they get power to the boats and cars |
| 21:18.31 | Q_Continuum | So...Office Depot is going to buy & absorb/merge with OfficeMax. MaxOfficeDepot? |
| 21:19.13 | Migs | DepoffMax |
| 21:21.10 | ezakimak | that just leaves staples as the only competition? |
| 21:21.53 | Migs | DeStapleMaxOff |
| 21:22.10 | Q_Continuum | Yeah, ezakimak |
| 21:22.18 | Q_Continuum | Well, plus Amazon |
| 21:22.27 | ezakimak | for brick and mortar |
| 21:22.41 | Q_Continuum | Yeah, Staples is the only "real" full competition |
| 21:22.56 | ezakimak | i mean, there's target and walmart, sort of |
| 21:24.00 | Q_Continuum | Which honestly has most of the smaller stuff |
| 21:24.08 | Q_Continuum | Just only 8 options instead of 14 |
| 21:25.32 | Q_Continuum | Also Costco and Sams Club, etc |
| 21:31.11 | findlay | awesome = ccache + f90cache |
| 21:36.16 | jlp_work | fortran 90 has it's own cache? |
| 21:39.44 | findlay | it works for gfortran too |
| 21:39.52 | jlp_work | cool |
| 21:40.21 | findlay | is trying to port a large fortran project to automake |
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| 22:20.58 | levi | Living proof tha people still use fortran! |
| 22:21.40 | levi | Many people think Fortran is completely dead, but they have just not run into the mathematics/scientific computing scene. |
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| 22:39.47 | fugue88 | Fortran will never die. http://macwright.org/2013/02/18/literate-jenks.html |
| 22:59.55 | ezakimak | I would think lisp would work better for numeric computation |
| 23:02.36 | ezakimak | wow. fortran is ugly syntax |
| 23:03.42 | fozzmoo | WHAT DO YOU $MEAN;; |
| 23:04.00 | ezakimak | runner up to perl |
| 23:05.32 | fozzmoo | heh. Perl can be ugly and it can be exquisitely beautiful. It covers a wide spectrum. |
| 23:06.00 | fozzmoo | Kind of like those who use it. |
| 23:06.06 | ezakimak | not sure exquisitely beautiful is anywhere on perl's scale |
| 23:06.19 | fozzmoo | It is. |
| 23:06.32 | ezakimak | i think "barely tollerable" is the one extreme, and fugly the other end |
| 23:08.14 | levi | Why would you think that lisp would be better for numeric computation? |
| 23:08.33 | ezakimak | more powerful language features, and great numeric types |
| 23:09.00 | levi | Sometimes powerful language features are the antithesis of numeric computing speed. |
| 23:09.38 | levi | The semantics of Fortran align well with optimizing numeric computation. |
| 23:10.00 | ezakimak | lisp can compile to be as fast as C in some cases, esp. when you give it type hints |
| 23:10.20 | levi | Fortran can compile to be faster than C in numeric code in some cases. |
| 23:10.32 | ezakimak | wouldn't that just be up to the compiler? |
| 23:10.39 | ezakimak | fortran vs C that is |
| 23:11.06 | levi | It's mainly to do with lots of aliasing opportunities in C that restrict what the compiler can safely do to code. |
| 23:11.57 | levi | Recent C compilers give you tools to tell the compiler that you promise there aren't any aliases, so it's not as much of an issue anymore. |
| 23:12.17 | levi | But it does require that you know a lot more about C and your program than programming in Fortran would. |
| 23:12.25 | ezakimak | interesting |
| 23:12.48 | ezakimak | that must mean that at least for fortran, you get a reduction in guarantees |
| 23:13.02 | levi | (I am a lisp fan too, but it's not best at everything) |
| 23:13.25 | levi | Fortran just doesn't let you alias memory like C does. |
| 23:13.45 | ezakimak | do you mean function pointers? |
| 23:13.50 | levi | Data pointers. |
| 23:14.15 | ezakimak | ah. that too. |
| 23:14.44 | levi | Some optimizations are only safe if it's guaranteed that no other code has a reference to the data. That's not easy to track when you have unrestricted pointer arithmetic. |
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