| 00:07.16 | jima | eww. |
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| 00:51.07 | Gate | fozzmoo: that is fantastic beyond words :) |
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| 09:06.45 | Joshs | hi |
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| 17:07.11 | Gate | Yo |
| 17:13.21 | eightyeight | http://www.ksl.com/?nid=757&sid=23828129&title=proposal-no-permit-needed-to-carry-concealed-weapon-in-utah&s_cid=queue-1 |
| 17:13.24 | eightyeight | shakes his head |
| 17:19.10 | Gate | We wouldn't be the first state, IIRC |
| 17:19.46 | *** part/#utah dfinn (~Adium@66.97.133.7) |
| 17:19.59 | Gate | :/ That would create an odd middle ground, requiring a permit only for school premesis? Wierd. |
| 17:20.23 | eightyeight | i have a few concerns with the bill, but i haven't read it yet, so maybe they've already been addressed |
| 17:20.52 | Gate | Yeah, I'd have to get more details on it before going one way or the other. |
| 17:20.54 | eightyeight | first, is many states honor the utah CCP. being a constitutional carry state, what happens to our CCP, if any |
| 17:21.31 | Gate | according to that artcile, we would still issue them for things like school premesis, so if you have one it continues to work |
| 17:21.31 | eightyeight | second, is i don't believe that more guns == less crime. every set of data, research paper, and study i've read, clearly demonstrates otherwise |
| 17:21.54 | eightyeight | s/crime/gun violence/ |
| 17:22.00 | mahelious | i dont like it. the concealed-carry permit isn't that onerous, you take a class about the laws of possessing a gun and get the "do's and don'ts" |
| 17:22.09 | Gate | The data seems to indicate that it has little to no effect on violent crime |
| 17:22.12 | mahelious | i like the idea of that being mandatory |
| 17:22.14 | eightyeight | i'm open to looking at more data, but outside of alex jones, i'm not seeing it |
| 17:22.24 | eightyeight | mahelious: that's my 3rd issue |
| 17:22.46 | eightyeight | there are many laws about firearms that you just aren't aware of without taking the class. |
| 17:22.53 | Gate | I like the idea, but I also think we should eliminate driver's licences and car registration, so take that for what it is |
| 17:22.55 | eightyeight | now, we have an uneducated crowd, carrying guns |
| 17:23.10 | mahelious | i don't see how it's different from starting a bill to allow people to drive without a license. |
| 17:23.19 | Gate | eightyeight: Yeah, my cop buddies feel the same way about the extension of the castle law to your car |
| 17:23.20 | eightyeight | driving is a privilege, not a right |
| 17:24.16 | Gate | eightyeight: how is the ability to move yourself more or less of a right then the right of self defense? |
| 17:24.19 | mahelious | owning a gun is a right. carrying it around in public on a daily basis is a privlege. |
| 17:24.33 | Gate | One is far more important than the other, but still |
| 17:24.39 | eightyeight | mahelious: i'm not going to argue with you, but many will |
| 17:25.03 | Gate | I would argue that you have the right to self defense and the means to self defense |
| 17:25.28 | Gate | "in public" quickly becomes a wobbly term |
| 17:25.58 | eightyeight | what need does utah have to become a constitutional carry state? |
| 17:26.14 | eightyeight | why does the bill need to be passed? |
| 17:26.31 | mahelious | nothing better to do in vernal i supppose |
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| 17:29.12 | youtah | Never buy Ashely Furniture |
| 17:29.14 | youtah | FYI |
| 17:30.16 | youtah | Heh |
| 17:30.25 | mahelious | youtah: whys that? |
| 17:30.48 | youtah | they pass a bill like that, say goodbye to Sundance. Californians would never visit again |
| 17:31.05 | youtah | mahelious >> https://www.facebook.com/youtah/posts/10200459845242894 my comment has the real meat. |
| 17:35.40 | youtah | Have you ever seen planes trains and automobiles? Yeah, that's how the last 10 days have been for me. |
| 17:38.49 | Gate | eightyeight: The argument I would make for the bill (barring any wierd provisions in it) is that there is no need for the Government to license and track law abiding citizens, so long as they have the responsability to know and follow the law |
| 17:39.10 | Gate | I make the *same* argument for eliminating driver's licenses. |
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| 17:44.36 | youtah | Here's photos of the "High End" table I bought from them https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rxh7439crjdokij/Eff6_iP5FR |
| 17:54.09 | mahelious | that is disappointing |
| 17:56.52 | youtah | no kidding. |
| 17:57.48 | JalenJade | I think we need to be more strict with drivers licenses, written test every year and written and driving test for renewals |
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| 17:58.18 | unum | I thought utah was open carry |
| 17:58.27 | unum | and ya public is a wobbly term |
| 17:58.31 | youtah | I think our strictness on drivers licenses should be focused more on capabilities, such as response times, etc |
| 17:58.35 | JalenJade | it is with an unloaded weapon |
| 17:58.38 | unum | there *IS* a clear legal definition |
| 17:58.43 | Gate | We do have open carry, but you can be asked to leave anywhere you are "causing a disturbance" |
| 17:58.48 | JalenJade | you have to have a cc permit to have a loaded weapon |
| 17:59.02 | unum | Gate: you can always be asked to leave anywhere you are not wanted |
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| 17:59.38 | Gate | True :) |
| 17:59.38 | unum | btw the LDS church has registered with the state a notice that guns are not welcomed on their premises |
| 17:59.48 | *** part/#utah dfinn1 (~Adium@66.97.133.7) |
| 17:59.52 | youtah | yup |
| 18:00.04 | youtah | that's why I am glad that there is a police officer in my ward |
| 18:00.09 | Gate | :) shame, another reason not to step in an LDS church..... |
| 18:00.30 | unum | Gate: you state the requirement that law abiding citizens should be allow to carry, how should law enforcment know if you are law abbiding if not with a permit |
| 18:01.04 | youtah | when you tell them that you're carrying |
| 18:01.10 | Gate | unum: The presumption of innocence. |
| 18:01.13 | youtah | just like for concealed weapon permit holders |
| 18:01.33 | youtah | if I am carrying and an officer pulls me over, I *have* to inform them that I am armed and carrying |
| 18:01.41 | youtah | make it applicable to all. |
| 18:01.42 | JalenJade | Gate, problem is, then you end up with this guy: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/21/christian-oberender-convicted-killer-gun-permit-arsenal-weapons_n_2517064.html |
| 18:02.16 | Gate | If an officer stops you and they look up your identification they can have that information available (I don't like that either....) |
| 18:02.24 | unum | I wonder if they revoke permits over domestic abuse charges |
| 18:02.28 | unum | they do take the guns |
| 18:02.34 | youtah | If an officer stops me, and I am not carrying a weapon... I still tell them that I am a CFP holder and that I am not carrying |
| 18:02.48 | youtah | because I don't want them to ... |
| 18:02.50 | Gate | same, although I haven't been stopped by a cop in years |
| 18:02.52 | Yorokobi | AZ doesn't require a permit and doesn't require a person carrying concealed to inform the police during a police encounter. |
| 18:02.52 | unum | ya that's the thing is if there's not a permit system there will be a giant database system |
| 18:03.01 | unum | but i guess the database system is coming anyways |
| 18:03.05 | Gate | Yorokobi: its still polite to do so. |
| 18:03.05 | youtah | go back to their car, look me up, see that I have a CFP and wonder if I am packing or not |
| 18:03.12 | unum | youtah: link? |
| 18:03.22 | youtah | for what? |
| 18:03.27 | Yorokobi | Gate, I do. It got me out of at least one speeding ticket so far. :) |
| 18:03.28 | unum | oops sorry wrong y |
| 18:03.32 | unum | Yorokobi: link? |
| 18:03.33 | romanovic | JalenJade: that is exactly the kind of thing this change would have no effect on (not that I'm for doing away with ccw permits) |
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| 18:03.43 | Yorokobi | unum, for what? |
| 18:03.55 | unum | about arizona concealed carry laws |
| 18:04.02 | Yorokobi | lmgtfy ... |
| 18:04.17 | youtah | I was just talking about what I personally do |
| 18:04.20 | youtah | no link for that |
| 18:04.49 | Yorokobi | unum, start here: http://www.azdps.gov/services/concealed_weapons/ |
| 18:05.21 | keldwud | hey, I'm looking for a better way to track my hours. I'm hoping to move away from using a spreadsheet and/or just notepad and use something open source and cross-platform. Maybe even something I can use from android, even. Do any of you guys use anything like this? If so, what is it and where can I find it? |
| 18:05.22 | Gate | Yorokobi: OK, so minnesota didn't keep documentation on a nutjob. How does that imply that the 99% of innocent people need to be under a government magnifying glass? |
| 18:05.33 | youtah | Check out the updated poll results |
| 18:05.34 | youtah | http://www.ksl.com/?nid=757&sid=23828129&title=proposal-no-permit-needed-to-carry-concealed-weapon-in-utah&s_cid=featured-1 |
| 18:05.51 | Yorokobi | Gate, you talking to me? |
| 18:05.53 | youtah | 69% = Yes. (2258/3259 votes) |
| 18:06.02 | Gate | Yorokobi: nope, sorry |
| 18:06.03 | romanovic | keldwud: would this be hours worked on tasks, or more of a timesheet? |
| 18:06.04 | Gate | JalenJade: ^^ |
| 18:06.27 | Gate | Yes, because online polls are accurate and represent an informed populace.... |
| 18:06.41 | youtah | We all know that |
| 18:06.57 | youtah | but just sayin'... nearly 4k votes and still that large of a slant? |
| 18:07.18 | Yorokobi | unum, http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/20100729arizona-concealed-weapons-law.html?nclick_check=1 |
| 18:07.29 | Gate | Pro gun reactionism is almost as bad as anti-gun reactionism. Its a sober issue that needs to be considered without freaking out one way or the other. |
| 18:08.11 | youtah | what they are trying to do, is use this as a blockade against the feds |
| 18:08.13 | youtah | IMO |
| 18:08.29 | keldwud | romanovic: more of a timesheet. I'm salaried, but I want to keep track of my hours for historical purposes |
| 18:08.32 | youtah | Not so much helping people conceal carry |
| 18:12.28 | unum | I think I actually support dropping the permit just because of the cost |
| 18:12.44 | unum | I don't like paying tax money so people in other states can carry a weapon |
| 18:13.23 | unum | depends on the online poll, google actually did really well using on line polling |
| 18:13.33 | unum | politicians are moving in that direction as well |
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| 18:18.08 | keldwud | hmm, maybe this is how I will log my time at work |
| 18:18.09 | keldwud | http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9567846&postcount=343 |
| 18:19.08 | goozbach | keldwud: I was a big fan of the hamster applet |
| 18:19.13 | goozbach | google hamsterproject |
| 18:19.24 | goozbach | but alas it doesn't run on osX |
| 18:19.33 | goozbach | so I moved to the mac application billings |
| 18:19.45 | keldwud | after reading that tasker post, I started wondering what would happen if I combined that mindset with ninjablocks |
| 18:20.01 | goozbach | which has an ios version which integrates with the mac version over the network |
| 18:27.11 | keldwud | so does anybody here use anything other than notepad/spreadsheets for their timesheets to keep track of their hours? |
| 18:32.33 | mahelious | im one of the unfortunate clods with a corporate timekeeper |
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| 18:34.28 | keldwud | yeah, those are no fun. |
| 18:35.37 | Gate | keldwud: I use pivotal tracker timing, its OK. Convenient for us since each project is tracked there. |
| 18:36.43 | Yorokobi | mahelious, a quick look through Arch's packages reveals one called hamster time tracker |
| 18:36.52 | keldwud | thanks for the feedback, Gate |
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| 18:37.21 | Yorokobi | mahelious, http://lifehacker.com/5854272/the-best-time-tracking-app-for-linux |
| 18:37.59 | keldwud | for mahelious? or for keldwud? |
| 18:38.04 | keldwud | scratches head in confusion |
| 18:38.33 | Yorokobi | Ah, sorry. For you, keldwud. |
| 18:38.39 | Yorokobi | A lot of that going on here today. :) |
| 18:38.43 | keldwud | oh ok :) thanks, Yorokobi |
| 18:46.26 | jima | i use a massive, multi-site, international server farm with a custom perl application framework developed by a small team for my time tracking. |
| 18:46.36 | jima | or would if i weren't salaried. |
| 18:47.08 | Yorokobi | Sounds like openair |
| 18:48.20 | jima | *snerk* |
| 18:49.00 | jima | from what i'm seeing of openair's time tracking capabilities, i...wouldn't put them on the same level. |
| 18:49.17 | Yorokobi | haha, no argument here |
| 18:49.26 | jima | despite my misgivings with the system at my work, it's really feature-filled. |
| 18:49.52 | jima | it's also like a many-headed hydra, but hey, you can't win 'em all. ;-) |
| 18:49.59 | jima | goes to lunch |
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| 19:28.15 | youtah | unum I believe that the taxes aren't paying for any of it. I think they actually make money on it |
| 19:28.30 | youtah | Uh..... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10100992848620370&set=vb.135781519771484&type=2&theater |
| 19:29.20 | youtah | So, apparently the Sandy Hook shooter, tried to buy a gun, but he failed the background check. |
| 19:30.08 | youtah | http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495 |
| 19:30.38 | jima | so...the system did what it was supposed to? CRAZY. |
| 19:30.43 | youtah | lol |
| 19:30.45 | youtah | yeah |
| 19:30.52 | jima | unfortunately the system can't do much about criminal acts... |
| 19:30.59 | youtah | well said |
| 19:31.06 | jima | except punish them after the fact, if it finds out about them. |
| 19:31.41 | jima | also assuming there's anyone with a pulse left to punish. |
| 19:32.34 | jima | i happened upon an interesting analysis on mass shootings where the shooting was disrupted. |
| 19:33.03 | jima | when the police interrupted the shooting, there was an average body count of 14.3 |
| 19:33.22 | jima | when civilians, armed or not, interrupted, the average was 2.3 |
| 19:33.41 | jima | they further broke it down into armed vs. unarmed: 1.8 vs. 2.6 |
| 19:35.05 | jima | it's similar to air security post-9/11. it's not about the (guns, checkpoint security), it's about the mentality. |
| 19:37.21 | smcquay | I'll be interested in seeing gun study numbers now that the CDC is allowed to perform research on it |
| 19:37.52 | jima | i don't think i've heard this one. |
| 19:38.34 | youtah | ditto |
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| 19:44.05 | youtah | ibuprofen = a happier me |
| 19:48.07 | smcquay | it's part of President Obama's gun plan: take a way a law that prevents the CDC from doing gun research |
| 19:48.43 | youtah | yeah, I kind of buzzed over his list. Nothing jumped out at me as being too concerning. |
| 19:48.52 | youtah | Is it really a disease? |
| 19:49.55 | smcquay | yeah, so I think it might be a RH: "look, we're not even allowed to do real research here" |
| 19:52.11 | *** part/#utah keldwud (~keldwud@unaffiliated/keldwud) |
| 19:56.51 | youtah | But what does Red Hat have anything to do with this? ;-) |
| 20:00.40 | eightyeight | red herring |
| 20:00.43 | eightyeight | not red hat |
| 20:04.34 | shalkie | youtah: Lead Poisoning? |
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| 20:05.20 | smcquay | youtah: ha ;) |
| 20:10.04 | youtah | lol |
| 20:14.53 | youtah | WTF.... http://www.genealogybank.com/gbnk/ssdi/doc/ssdi/v1:143EB37C71A1FA78 This shows Adam Lanza dying a day before the shooting... |
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| 20:35.39 | Q_CONTINUUM | ITS A CONSPIRACY! |
| 20:35.43 | youtah | That |
| 20:35.47 | youtah | That's what she said! |
| 20:35.55 | youtah | will see himself out now... |
| 20:35.56 | Q_CONTINUUM | ... |
| 20:36.09 | Q_CONTINUUM | LARTs youtah before he can leave |
| 20:36.12 | youtah | lol |
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| 21:13.48 | Gate | http://reason.com/blog/2013/01/23/90-sheriffs-and-two-sheriffs-association <-- relevant to the gun legislation talk from earlier |
| 21:15.54 | youtah | My neighbor (a Sergent for SLC PD) is also super pro armed citizens. |
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| 22:51.21 | youtah | I don't see anything wrong with this... if anything... it's awesome! http://www.ksl.com/?sid=23830201&nid=157&title=teacher-posts-picture-of-students-with-duct-taped-mouths-faces-privacy-violations&s_cid=queue-1 |
| 22:51.34 | youtah | okay, in all seriousness... I think they are going overboard. |
| 22:55.19 | Gate | sigh |
| 22:55.25 | youtah | ^^ |
| 22:55.57 | Gate | I was all ready for it to be a censorship protest being sensored, too |
| 22:56.17 | youtah | lol |
| 22:56.36 | youtah | I just got an email from the owner of Ashley Furniture |
| 22:56.46 | youtah | they will be picking up my broken table and delivering a new one. |
| 22:56.50 | youtah | free of charge |
| 22:57.00 | Gate | cool |
| 22:58.31 | youtah | sad part is, they cannot deliver until Saturday. |
| 22:58.55 | youtah | That's the whole freaking reason I wanted to avoid their delivery. 3 days out + $80 |
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