| 00:00.56 | unum | "The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States" |
| 00:01.15 | unum | actually there's a better part then that |
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| 00:44.44 | youtah | OMGOSH!!!! |
| 00:44.49 | youtah | Enter this.... |
| 00:44.50 | youtah | (https?:\/\/)?([\da-z\.-]+)\.([a-z\.]{2,6})([\/\w \.-]*)*\/?$ |
| 00:44.52 | youtah | errr. |
| 00:44.54 | youtah | this... |
| 00:44.57 | youtah | ^(https?:\/\/)?([\da-z\.-]+)\.([a-z\.]{2,6})([\/\w \.-]*)*\/?$ |
| 00:45.05 | youtah | here: http://www.regexper.com/ |
| 00:45.11 | youtah | and feast your eyes! |
| 00:47.16 | shalkie | heh. If memory serves Tene did something similiar a while back. Though this is nicely polished. How does JavaScript RegEx differ from other implementations? |
| 00:47.53 | youtah | If I remember correctly, JS follows perl regex pretty dang closely |
| 00:48.02 | youtah | and php uses perls |
| 00:50.14 | shalkie | Does the Big Data meetup require a membership or is it free to all subscribed to the Plug list? |
| 00:50.43 | youtah | ? |
| 00:51.05 | shalkie | http://www.meetup.com/Big-Data-Salt-Lake/events/96846492/ |
| 00:53.04 | Yorokobi | What? No mention of Splunk? For shame. |
| 00:53.24 | youtah | lol |
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| 01:02.17 | jima | hmm, bluffdale? bit of a haul. :-\ |
| 01:02.25 | jima | oh, and in 58 minutes. never mind. |
| 01:16.05 | shalkie | Yeah, I think I am going to pass this evening. |
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| 02:31.14 | ezakimak | youtah, there used to be an app named kregexeditor that did similar |
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| 03:40.10 | fozzmoo | Anyone know off-hand how to enable SSIs on XMission hosted websites? |
| 03:40.43 | fozzmoo | Where's eightyeight when you need him, right? |
| 03:41.06 | fozzmoo | (or pashdown.) |
| 03:43.19 | shalkie | Blogging I would imagine. :-) |
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| 06:18.09 | Q_Continuum | fozzmoo: pashdown is trolling someone on reddit. |
| 06:18.12 | Q_Continuum | Probably. |
| 06:18.17 | Q_Continuum | That was when I saw him on there last anyway |
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| 16:04.07 | pashdown | fozz did you get your ssi problem resolved? |
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| 16:55.11 | eightyeight | ~seen sjansen |
| 16:55.16 | ibot | sjansen <~sjansen@ip65-46-62-182.z62-46-65.customer.algx.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 15d 8m 7s ago, saying: 'fungus: Yeah, that's what I'm hoping to avoid.'. |
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| 17:03.41 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
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| 17:12.42 | unum | what are alternatives to opendhcp? |
| 17:13.29 | jima | looks up opendhcp |
| 17:14.34 | jima | as in http://sourceforge.net/projects/dhcpserver/ ? |
| 17:17.43 | unum | as in yum install dhcp |
| 17:19.12 | jima | isn't that isc...? |
| 17:19.35 | jima | yeah, isc dhcpd |
| 17:19.45 | jima | have you looked at dnsmasq at all? |
| 17:20.01 | unum | huh maybe I have no idea what we are using |
| 17:20.10 | unum | I had forgetten about that |
| 17:20.16 | unum | I haven't looked at that in a long time |
| 17:20.33 | unum | that might be a really good solution for my brother |
| 17:20.42 | unum | my brother has 40 devices on his home network |
| 17:21.04 | unum | I guess he's switched to century link recently and has double routers for some reason |
| 17:21.12 | jima | yeah, dnsmasq is pretty good. the former fedora package maintainer really dropped the ball on it, though. |
| 17:21.19 | unum | router's not the right word there |
| 17:21.27 | jima | double nat? |
| 17:21.31 | unum | ya |
| 17:21.34 | unum | that's what I meant |
| 17:21.36 | jima | sobs quietly |
| 17:21.38 | unum | ya |
| 17:21.53 | jima | nat is a big reason i like ipv6 so much. |
| 17:21.58 | unum | this is the brother that has purchased both the guru plug and the rpi |
| 17:22.48 | jima | you don't want to know how many devices are on my home network. :-| |
| 17:23.23 | jima | # wc -l /tmp/dhcp.leases 29 /tmp/dhcp.leases |
| 17:23.28 | jima | that seems...low. |
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| 17:26.31 | unum | I guess his fance router that insists on using(thus the double NAT) only allows 32 |
| 17:26.39 | unum | s/fance/fancy |
| 17:27.04 | unum | I think I only have 5 |
| 17:28.26 | unum | time to download s3 again |
| 17:28.37 | unum | I'm putting together some courses for my coworkers |
| 17:29.17 | jima | there are generally anywhere between 54 and 56 network devices in my house, it would appear. |
| 17:29.51 | jima | i'm probably missing some...and that exludes VMs. |
| 17:29.54 | jima | excludes |
| 17:30.34 | unum | I wonder if I could set aside part of the basement as a server room..... |
| 17:31.14 | jima | there are two 6-core, 16gb vm servers in that list. :-| |
| 17:31.51 | unum | there are a lot of things called s3 these days and the software I'm looking for may not be one of them |
| 17:32.24 | jima | yeah, i knew my first thought (samsung galaxy s3) wasn't the right one. :-P |
| 17:32.37 | unum | s5 is what I was looking for |
| 17:39.43 | jima | oops, i missed a lot of devices. |
| 17:41.13 | mheath | jima: woah, why so many? |
| 17:41.29 | jima | mheath: to start with? 8 people. |
| 17:41.35 | mheath | ah, that could do it. |
| 17:41.53 | jima | 3 of them IT types, the rest "merely" technology enthusiasts. |
| 17:41.55 | mheath | I think I have around 10, depending on who's home with their cell phones |
| 17:42.35 | jima | there's a certain guaranteed count when the minimum devices-per-person is 4...and that's the 5yo. :-| |
| 17:43.48 | mheath | My daughter got her first wifi enabled device for Christmas. But she's only 3. It's a start. ;) |
| 17:44.42 | jima | both the 5yo and 8yo have a desktop, laptop, 3ds, and tablet. :-| |
| 17:45.14 | mheath | I've pretty much done away with desktops at this point. There really isn't a reason to own one with what I need computers for. |
| 17:45.26 | jima | they each only had two devices before xmas. |
| 17:45.27 | mheath | Hadn't seriously used a desktop in years, and finally got rid of my desktop a few weeks ago |
| 17:45.43 | ezakimak | i do everything w/my desktop |
| 17:45.50 | jima | it's mostly about gaming at this point. |
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| 17:46.05 | ezakimak | much faster than any laptop |
| 17:46.21 | mheath | Yeah, that could be a motivator. I don't have enough time to do gaming, so thats never a big selling point for me. |
| 17:46.21 | jima | if not for gaming, we might not have any desktops. |
| 17:46.48 | ezakimak | desktops still cost less, so businesses are going to opt for them first for employees |
| 17:46.52 | jima | 7/8 of the household are pretty into gaming. |
| 17:47.05 | mheath | The other factor is that I'm mainly an Apple shop at home these days, and Apple desktops aren't worth the price (even less of a value than the laptops) |
| 17:47.16 | jima | ewww ;-) |
| 17:47.20 | ezakimak | plus, i use my kinesis keyboard--using an external keyboard on a laptop kinda makes it moot |
| 17:47.50 | mheath | Hey, don't hate on the Apple |
| 17:47.58 | jima | why not? :-) |
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| 17:48.11 | ezakimak | they deserve kudos--they've built a very coherent, large ecosystem where stuff for the most part "just works" |
| 17:48.27 | ezakimak | expensive and vendor lockin? you bet. |
| 17:48.44 | mheath | I just like their hardware quality, mainly. Even if I was planning on running Windows or Linux, I'd still lean towards Macbook hardware (if I had the money to spare) |
| 17:48.48 | ezakimak | but most of the addicts are quite happy |
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| 17:48.59 | jima | the snobbery/elitism got to me...and the huge technology dumps. |
| 17:49.09 | ezakimak | ever watch big bang theory? |
| 17:49.17 | jima | hint: i started using macs when they were m68k. |
| 17:49.20 | mheath | Show me another laptop manufacturer with a beautiful yet durable, aluminium body, magnetic breakaway power cables, this long of battery life, etc. |
| 17:49.33 | ezakimak | "were you at the apple store again pretending to be a genious to talk to chicks?" |
| 17:49.36 | jima | i remember all the arguments for moving to and then staying with ppc. |
| 17:49.51 | ezakimak | *genius |
| 17:49.53 | mheath | jima: Yeah, I despise the snobbery. I always purchase their products after careful consideration and comparrison to the alternative, never because of some fanboyism or ellitism. |
| 17:50.10 | mheath | And their products *are* disproportionately expensive. |
| 17:50.20 | jima | the magsafe stuff is damned nice, i'll readily admit. |
| 17:50.52 | mheath | jima: with a 3 year old at home, It's probably saved my laptop about 100 times |
| 17:51.06 | jima | oh, and then there's the whole IP war with samsung... |
| 17:51.07 | mheath | Just last night, she ran straight through the cord |
| 17:51.26 | jima | yeah, our kids do stuff like that a lot. |
| 17:51.30 | mheath | Yeah, the iPhone, pretty much in it's entirety, is kind of a black mark on Apples reputation. |
| 17:51.56 | mheath | I ended up getting an iPhone (I actually converted FROM Android!) but that was mainly just for compatability and sync across my apple stuff. |
| 17:52.11 | ezakimak | i've heard that the dell laptop warranty (the max) is pretty awesome--covers damage no questions asked |
| 17:52.12 | mheath | iCloud has some pretty sleak features that really only work if the phone is Apple, too |
| 17:52.31 | mheath | ezakimak: Yep! I used to do Dell tech support and service those warranties |
| 17:52.50 | ezakimak | a friend of mine service dell warranty contracts for a while--that's what he said |
| 17:52.51 | mheath | It's called CompleteCare, and its an addon to the standard defect warranty |
| 17:52.56 | mheath | You'll pay out the nose for it though |
| 17:53.02 | jima | dell tech support... |
| 17:53.04 | jima | narrows eyes |
| 17:53.07 | ezakimak | said you could literally drive a knife through your screen on purpose and they would replace it |
| 17:53.26 | mheath | jima: yeah, thats how I started at TPUSA, in a call center. |
| 17:53.35 | jima | mheath: that's what i was guessing. |
| 17:53.41 | mheath | Tech support for Canadian Small Business Dell Customers |
| 17:53.56 | jima | explanation to everyone else: i figured out that mheath used to work for tpusa yesterday. |
| 17:54.09 | ezakimak | one thing about dell that bugs me is that they divide their product line between customer "types"--some products they will only sell to business accounts |
| 17:54.22 | jima | (i work for "corporate") |
| 17:54.26 | ezakimak | i dunno what tpusa is |
| 17:54.44 | mheath | jima creeped me out, by being the first person I've ever met on IRC, that I knew before IRC. |
| 17:54.59 | ezakimak | maybe he's stalking you |
| 17:55.04 | mheath | (with the exception of people I casually met at LUGs and such) |
| 17:55.23 | jima | ezakimak: teleperformance usa |
| 17:55.40 | ezakimak | ah. call center, right? |
| 17:55.46 | jima | ...sort of. |
| 17:55.54 | jima | that's the primary line of business, correct. |
| 17:55.58 | mheath | jima: I worked for corporate. You work for some meta-entity that no one knows how to fit into the org charts :) |
| 17:56.13 | jima | mheath: no, you worked for the US subsidiary, smartass. ;-) |
| 17:56.15 | ezakimak | i built a call center last year |
| 17:56.33 | ezakimak | wouldn't mind doing it again, it was a fun project |
| 17:56.44 | mheath | ezakimak: like, contracted to install stuff? |
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| 17:56.54 | ezakimak | yep. whole kit and caboodle |
| 17:57.19 | ezakimak | too bad their business didn't work and they shut down |
| 17:57.20 | mheath | Cool. I'm not really sure how we handled our new center buildups. I never really had anything to do with them until most of the groundwork was in place. |
| 17:57.25 | jima | mheath: i won't argue with the second sentence, except it's the global "corporate" business unit. |
| 17:57.41 | ezakimak | i used sipecs and polycom voip phones |
| 17:57.54 | jima | but no one knows how it fits into the org chart, correct. |
| 17:58.04 | ezakimak | and the owner got a bunch of old xp workstations off lease--more than enough |
| 17:58.36 | mheath | Yeah, if someone just 'created' a call center, they're not likely to have too much luck. |
| 17:58.41 | mheath | It's a pretty competitive industry |
| 17:58.48 | ezakimak | he'd done it many times before |
| 17:58.51 | jima | yeah, with some serious players. |
| 17:58.57 | ezakimak | his problem was getting good lead sources |
| 17:59.06 | ezakimak | his business model was very good though |
| 17:59.12 | jima | i would expect that to be the #1 problem, correct. |
| 17:59.18 | mheath | good lead sources? It was outbound? |
| 17:59.24 | jima | probably #2 would be...turnover? |
| 17:59.29 | ezakimak | actually the bigger problem was he got outright cheated on a lead source |
| 17:59.35 | ezakimak | yes, it was outbound |
| 17:59.40 | jima | oh, outbound. |
| 17:59.45 | ezakimak | well, they had an 800 # inbound also |
| 17:59.47 | mheath | I was so happy that TPUSA had 99% gotten rid of outbound calling |
| 17:59.48 | jima | backs away slowly |
| 17:59.49 | ezakimak | but i doubt that got used much |
| 18:00.24 | mheath | I hated outbound dialing. Even when done legally and nicely, it's such a seedy, annoying, morally ambiguous business. |
| 18:00.29 | jima | mheath: enh, i wouldn't agree with that assessment...maybe outbound cold-calling |
| 18:00.40 | jima | remember we have collections, etc |
| 18:00.42 | ezakimak | yep. didn't stop vivint from selling for over $2 billion though. |
| 18:00.47 | mheath | jima: I'm talking about volume and agents and such. |
| 18:01.05 | mheath | We still had, number wise, quite a few outbound campaigns, but they were all miniscually small projects. A dozen agents, here or there. |
| 18:01.36 | mheath | 99% of the core business is all inbound customer care and tech support. Call centers with hundreds (or, in the philippines, sometimes even peaks of 1,000) of agents |
| 18:01.48 | jima | oh, wait...are you even familiar with our collections subsidiaries? |
| 18:02.02 | ezakimak | and down the rabbit hole he goes... |
| 18:02.13 | mheath | jima: AOI? Unfortunately, yes :D |
| 18:02.19 | jima | heh, ok |
| 18:02.21 | jima | also some stuff in the uk |
| 18:02.31 | mheath | ah. |
| 18:02.39 | mheath | You probably have a better 'global outlook' than me. |
| 18:02.57 | mheath | It may have changed since I left, but when I left the UK wasn't supported by my team yet |
| 18:03.16 | mheath | They were technically on paper being integrated more, and there was talk of integrating them into our process, but it was vague forward looking statements. |
| 18:03.55 | mheath | We're probably boring and/or confusing the rest of the channel with our rather specific conversation streak though |
| 18:04.03 | jima | the uk will never be, due to various contracts and uk law. |
| 18:04.26 | jima | probably. :-D |
| 18:04.29 | mheath | I didn't know the UK had limitations like that |
| 18:04.37 | jima | will explain via /msg |
| 18:04.45 | mheath | I know similar issues prevent full integration of the domestic India call centers |
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| 18:08.45 | jima | ugh, my uplink hosed for 2 minutes there. |
| 18:09.17 | youtah | Here ya guys go.... https://plus.google.com/117588839385073341602/posts/68KTVWcU9Qy |
| 18:10.01 | Jayce^ | oh youtah, for me? thanks... |
| 18:10.10 | mheath | youtah: is that your car? |
| 18:10.11 | youtah | lol |
| 18:10.16 | youtah | Yeah that's my car |
| 18:10.19 | youtah | took it last night |
| 18:10.24 | youtah | playing around up the Cayon |
| 18:10.25 | youtah | Canyon |
| 18:11.20 | mheath | Apparently it handles decently in the snow |
| 18:11.31 | youtah | heh |
| 18:11.38 | youtah | oh yes it does. Like a charm |
| 18:14.18 | mheath | How much did you pay for it, if I might ask? |
| 18:14.25 | mheath | Just curious, its a similar class of car to what I bought earlier this year |
| 18:15.43 | youtah | This impreza is a 2010, manual, it is the 2.5L with the all weather package (heated seats, heated windshield wipers and side view mirrors) with the upgraded sound system, plus sunroof. It had 31,000 miles on it. Got it for $15,500. Came with all the warranties still. |
| 18:17.05 | youtah | and Nate Wade, at the time, was offering 1.9% interest as well |
| 18:18.20 | youtah | and man is it fun to drive |
| 18:21.19 | Jayce^ | loved his subies... |
| 18:21.33 | youtah | I do miss my truck |
| 18:21.35 | Jayce^ | too bad they don't fit the full family anymore |
| 18:21.39 | youtah | but I will love a larger house much much more |
| 18:21.47 | Jayce^ | yeah, I had the choice, but I needed the truck again |
| 18:21.59 | joshh | Jayce^, that's one reason im sticking to 2 kids |
| 18:22.06 | youtah | How many can the Tribeca fit? |
| 18:22.50 | Jayce^ | joshh: yeah, we didn't plan on the extra :) |
| 18:22.57 | Jayce^ | and the dog, etc :) |
| 18:23.02 | youtah | http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/tribeca/vehicle-specs.html |
| 18:23.12 | youtah | looks like there is a third row |
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| 18:23.41 | Jayce^ | barely |
| 18:23.46 | Jayce^ | and nothing behind it |
| 18:24.08 | youtah | but but... |
| 18:24.09 | youtah | but... |
| 18:24.15 | youtah | it says on their website it's comfortable! |
| 18:24.17 | youtah | "The three rows of seating comfortably hold up to seven passengers." |
| 18:24.29 | youtah | http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/tribeca/features.html |
| 18:24.59 | youtah | looks like it would seat 7 with no legs |
| 18:26.50 | ezakimak | kinda like a mustang "seats 4" |
| 18:27.38 | joshh | i want a subaru legacy though, a tad more family friendly |
| 18:31.09 | smcquay | joshh: i would try fitting carseats in a legacy before ponying up for one ... |
| 18:31.24 | stderr- | our subie went through quite the time in Tahoe during Christmas. Handled really well with just all weather tires. |
| 18:31.28 | smcquay | I know two people who got them as family cars, and hate getting kids in/out of them |
| 18:31.50 | stderr- | https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/425547_10151291817391051_1834872190_n.jpg |
| 18:32.32 | joshh | my 2005 malibu is great for back seat room/carseats |
| 18:32.42 | joshh | no complaints personally at least |
| 18:32.46 | joshh | legacy can't be much differnet |
| 18:33.02 | ezakimak | what about a jgc? |
| 18:39.40 | jima | sneaks off to lunch |
| 18:42.04 | Jayce^ | my kids have reached the point where a standard 3 seater back row is rather crowded |
| 18:42.29 | Jayce^ | still consider it often though |
| 18:43.16 | Jayce^ | our tahoe is almost at 200k, and is feeling its age.. |
| 18:43.32 | Jayce^ | now that we have the truck we don't need it for trailers.. but that third row gets used a lot |
| 19:06.25 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@69.169.182.226.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) |
| 19:07.08 | unum | joshh: I like my 2005 malibu better than my wife's 2005 corolla for that |
| 19:07.29 | joshh | i love malibus |
| 19:07.35 | joshh | but i've had 2 in a row and feel like something new |
| 19:07.36 | unum | with in the next couple of year we need something that will filt three car seats |
| 19:07.49 | joshh | i like the honda fit actually, but that might be a bit too cramped in the back |
| 19:08.06 | unum | youtah: we've been looking at the same thing |
| 19:08.15 | unum | we looked at a rav4 with a third row |
| 19:08.27 | joshh | unum: you have 3? |
| 19:08.33 | unum | i'm trying to talk my wife into a jettawagon with a diesel engine |
| 19:08.39 | unum | joshh: currently we have two |
| 19:08.57 | unum | and I don't see how we could fit an infant car seat between them |
| 19:11.20 | youtah | yeah, we can "fit" (and I use the term loosely) two booster seats and a rear facing car seat in the back seat of my Impreza |
| 19:12.03 | youtah | stderr- yeah we drove the Impreza everywhere we went around Christmas, just because it handled so well, even with just all weather tires |
| 19:12.25 | Yorokobi | AWD has that advantage |
| 19:12.56 | joshh | once you get to 3 kids, you have to just go for an suv or minivan, period |
| 19:12.59 | youtah | and the improvements to traction control over the years have come leaps and bounds |
| 19:13.25 | youtah | joshh we have a minivan, but it was so bad on the bench, we didnt dare take it |
| 19:14.01 | unum | we're trying to avoid the minivan, but my wife is a tree hugger... |
| 19:14.21 | unum | she want a hybrid highlander |
| 19:14.29 | youtah | The newer outbacks (2010 and later) are wider in the back seat, and have more room for car seats & booster seats |
| 19:14.58 | youtah | I love my Honda Odyssey. Even if it is only front wheel drive |
| 19:15.12 | youtah | it is much roomier and I like the seating/features in it more than the Sienna |
| 19:15.13 | *** join/#utah Yorokobi (~Yorokobi@pdpc/supporter/professional/yorokobi) |
| 19:15.21 | youtah | Although, the Sienna has 4WD |
| 19:15.42 | joshh | i'll check out the small crossover type suv's as well as the sedans i like |
| 19:15.47 | youtah | where as my Odyssey has FWD. We've taken the Odyssey in nasty storms before, handled quite well. |
| 19:16.16 | joshh | but even if i had an excursion i'd still stick with 2 kids and a dog |
| 19:16.21 | unum | the rav4 has zero leg room with the third row |
| 19:16.28 | unum | but for kids in car seats that works |
| 19:16.30 | joshh | the 3rd row would be for groceries |
| 19:16.51 | youtah | or if one of your kids has a friend.... |
| 19:16.54 | joshh | i had a 2000 dodge durango for a while, and it was great but guzzled gas and had more room than i ever needed |
| 19:16.55 | unum | <- grew up with 5 siblings and a surburban |
| 19:17.11 | unum | we filled the back seats most of the front seat and the we towed the camper |
| 19:17.13 | youtah | that's the big part of why we got the minivan. Carpools, picking up their friends at school, etc. |
| 19:17.15 | unum | or the snowmobiles |
| 19:17.17 | joshh | i do want to take mountain bikes around |
| 19:17.22 | unum | later the 4 wheelers... |
| 19:17.22 | joshh | either on roof or a hitch rack |
| 19:17.38 | youtah | I can put a full sized couch inside my minivan if I take the seats out. |
| 19:17.57 | youtah | yeah, unfortunately the tribeca, with the added transmission cooling package |
| 19:18.03 | youtah | can only tow up to 3800 lbs |
| 19:18.05 | joshh | just always have a friend with a truck |
| 19:18.12 | unum | if you're just using it for groceries no need for the third row, just leave it empty |
| 19:19.04 | unum | fortunately towings not an issue for us |
| 19:19.19 | unum | the 40 mpg the hybrid highlander is supposed to get is |
| 19:19.34 | joshh | i drove a rental highlander once and hated the feel |
| 19:19.45 | youtah | yeah, that is why I am sad we had to get rid of the truck. We have an ATV trailer, and two boats |
| 19:20.02 | youtah | now our family is down to only one vehicle that can tow them |
| 19:20.27 | joshh | sell a boat |
| 19:20.41 | Q_Continuum | Heh, when I moved out here I swapped vehicles with my folks for a bit. Borrowed their van and the utility trailer, leaving them my HHR - they came out a few months later on a roadtrip and swapped back. |
| 19:22.28 | unum | this reminds me I'm supposed to check on biodiesel prices |
| 19:22.37 | youtah | one's a tiny aluminum fishing boat |
| 19:22.45 | youtah | and the other is a flat pontoon fishing boat |
| 19:22.54 | youtah | neither are worth the cost of a truck |
| 19:28.41 | *** join/#utah pdayton (~pjdayton@67.21.63.139) |
| 19:32.30 | unum | I'm designing a perl programming course for my coworkers |
| 19:40.23 | smcquay | memorization exercies, unum? |
| 19:40.42 | youtah | Magic: https://plus.google.com/u/0/117588839385073341602/posts/EuTEVmXHm3J |
| 19:42.23 | youtah | Any of you guys going to the Rocky Mountain Gun Show? |
| 19:43.02 | jima | are you asking so you can make a list of people with guns to publish in the newspaper??? |
| 19:43.10 | youtah | lol |
| 19:43.11 | youtah | no |
| 19:44.35 | youtah | Although, I did volunteer and helped my friend teach the 6 hour CFP course at the maverick center for teachers https://twitter.com/i/#!/youtah/media/slideshow?url=pic.twitter.com%2F3V6j5KFy |
| 19:45.02 | jima | needs to get around to jumping through those hoops |
| 19:45.26 | youtah | my friend is Clark Aposhian, he teaches CFP a couple times a month |
| 19:45.56 | youtah | if anyone's interested, shoot him an email at clark@fairwarning.biz |
| 19:45.57 | manithree | youtah: You have cool friends |
| 19:46.52 | youtah | looks around.... |
| 19:48.47 | manithree | I'm working on my CFP instructor cert so I can volunteer to teach teachers. I'm not nearly as cool as Clark, though |
| 19:49.03 | youtah | oh really? Yeah, that would be awesome |
| 19:49.11 | ezakimak | is it free to sit through a cfp class if you already have it? (to refresh on the laws) |
| 19:49.18 | mheath | Not sure what the big rush is to teach teachers, as it's still illegal for them to carry at school in most places |
| 19:49.27 | ezakimak | not in utah |
| 19:49.32 | youtah | in Utah it's not |
| 19:49.54 | youtah | CFP's have been able to carry in Utah schools (including higher education) for the last 12 years |
| 19:49.56 | ezakimak | them "most places" would be other states :) |
| 19:50.01 | youtah | (and have been doing so) |
| 19:50.45 | manithree | Public schools/districts are legally barred from creating policies restricting teachers from carrying in Utah. I like this place. |
| 19:50.46 | youtah | manithree yeah Clark and I lived in the same neighborhood for several years when my wife and I were first married. |
| 19:51.15 | ezakimak | where does he teach? |
| 19:51.30 | ezakimak | i took my cfp from range masters in springville |
| 19:51.34 | youtah | his courses are typically in Midvale. |
| 19:51.41 | youtah | I took mine in Taylorsville |
| 19:51.42 | manithree | ezakimak: Me too |
| 19:52.03 | ezakimak | been wanting to sit through again cause i know some things have changed since |
| 19:52.05 | youtah | we had so many educators come to the free CFP course we had to turn them away |
| 19:52.15 | ezakimak | that's a good problem to have |
| 19:52.29 | youtah | yeah, lots of changes. I want my wife to sit in on one, just as a refresher as well |
| 19:52.30 | manithree | I want my kids' teachers and principals (in Orem) to carry. |
| 19:52.43 | youtah | even if they don't carry, I want them to be educated |
| 19:53.09 | youtah | I teach my kids to: stop, don't touch, treat *all* firearms as if they're loaded, and contact an adult |
| 19:53.27 | jima | hear about the two kids in oregon? |
| 19:53.28 | youtah | I would like to know that the person, or adult, that my kids go get |
| 19:53.35 | manithree | youtah: They can protect my kids better when I'm not around if they carry, but education is a good start. |
| 19:53.51 | youtah | are educated and know how to handle the firearm safely |
| 19:54.01 | manithree | youtah: Eddie Eagle much? |
| 19:54.05 | ezakimak | i think all humans should have firearm training starting in kindergarten--it really is core knowledge |
| 19:54.11 | jima | two 7th graders (iirc) on a field trip to a movie theater find a loaded gun. |
| 19:54.17 | youtah | yeah I heard that jima. |
| 19:54.22 | ezakimak | safety training that is |
| 19:54.33 | jima | what do they do? they didn't touch it, and told a staffer, who called the police. |
| 19:54.38 | youtah | manithree yes, eddie eagle. lol |
| 19:54.39 | Yorokobi | Better: 2 years mandatory military service |
| 19:55.06 | jima | the owner showed up that evening asking basically "hey, did anyone turn in my gun to the lost and found?" |
| 19:55.18 | youtah | yeah, his CFP was yanked |
| 19:55.24 | ezakimak | why? |
| 19:55.27 | jima | he had a concealed carry permit...emphasis on "had." |
| 19:55.31 | youtah | for losing his gun |
| 19:55.31 | jima | yep. |
| 19:55.44 | jima | for not reporting it missing immediately. |
| 19:55.45 | ezakimak | imo that shouldn't be a huge deal |
| 19:55.54 | jima | he lost it the night before. |
| 19:55.55 | ezakimak | bad, yes, but lose cfp over it? |
| 19:56.05 | youtah | yeah, the kids that found it were Scouts, and knew not to touch it |
| 19:56.24 | jima | youtah: oh, right; i got the story from your twitter feed. |
| 19:56.49 | ezakimak | if it were a knife, no one would bat an eye |
| 19:56.55 | ezakimak | just as lethal. |
| 19:56.59 | youtah | true |
| 19:57.02 | Yorokobi | Or car keys |
| 19:57.05 | manithree | If it were me I would have had a new gun. |
| 19:57.11 | youtah | lol |
| 19:57.36 | youtah | especially if it was something cool |
| 19:57.40 | unum | I disagree about it being just as lethal |
| 19:57.49 | unum | I doubt I could kill any of you with a knife |
| 19:57.52 | ezakimak | knifes? |
| 19:58.09 | ezakimak | then you haven't seen a knife wielded the way I have. |
| 19:58.11 | youtah | the thing about knifes, is that they are silent, and the fights go on and on and on and on |
| 19:58.11 | jima | i lost my knife in a theater once, actually. |
| 19:58.18 | unum | I guess with my aim I couldn't kill anyone with a pistol |
| 19:58.25 | ezakimak | no, they don't go on and on. they are over nearly instantly. |
| 19:58.26 | jima | "knifes?" really? :-P |
| 19:58.26 | youtah | until someone is dead or bleeds out |
| 19:58.36 | unum | ezakimak: I meant *I* couldn't kill anyone with a knife |
| 19:58.44 | ezakimak | just a matter of training |
| 19:58.52 | unum | that would be my point |
| 19:59.01 | unum | any 5 year old can pick up a gun and kill someone |
| 19:59.04 | jima | i suspect i could kill with a knife...but not from across the room. |
| 19:59.11 | ezakimak | you know what the minimum "safe" distance is against someone wielding a knife? |
| 19:59.12 | unum | in fact you see it in the news from time to time |
| 19:59.16 | youtah | most gun shots, are punk thugs who can't aim, pop a few rounds, no one's hit, everyone scatters |
| 19:59.18 | jima | ezakimak: 21 feet? |
| 19:59.22 | Yorokobi | Distance doesn't change lethality |
| 19:59.22 | unum | but how often does it happen with a knife |
| 19:59.30 | ezakimak | actually, they increased it a while back |
| 19:59.45 | ezakimak | it was 21 feet for a long time |
| 19:59.51 | manithree | unum: way more often than with "assault rifles" |
| 20:00.06 | unum | manithree: doubt it |
| 20:00.18 | unum | though usually it's a pistol or "hunting rifle" |
| 20:00.28 | unum | but we were talking about pistols |
| 20:00.37 | ezakimak | this is why: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9igSoJHEdUo |
| 20:00.45 | unum | a five year old is far more likely to kill someone with a pistol they find than with a knife |
| 20:01.09 | jima | did they? |
| 20:01.09 | jima | oh, wait; i learned that in 2003. |
| 20:01.09 | jima | that wouldn't surprise me then. |
| 20:01.09 | jima | HURRY UP, STUPID BACKUP |
| 20:01.51 | ezakimak | he's not even the fastest w/a knife |
| 20:02.40 | unum | taking the concealed carry class made me realize how much I never wanted to carry |
| 20:02.52 | unum | or I should say what a bad idea it would be for me to carry |
| 20:02.59 | youtah | excellent video |
| 20:03.01 | jima | are you a space cadet? |
| 20:03.42 | ezakimak | 21ft only for non-concealed holster |
| 20:04.09 | ezakimak | and that assumes you have practiced drawing |
| 20:04.39 | unum | jima: of course, but that's not the only reason |
| 20:04.59 | ezakimak | why is it a bad idea for you to carry? |
| 20:05.15 | unum | I just couldn't imagine a scenario where I would feel threatened by someone that far away |
| 20:05.27 | unum | I guess if they were shooting at me, but at that point I'd probably already be dead |
| 20:05.45 | ezakimak | what if they were shooting at one of your family or friends? |
| 20:05.45 | youtah | Okay, this is important: Click on this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KG1JFzrnqw and listen while watching this: http://i.imgur.com/xuzRj.gif |
| 20:06.11 | unum | and I was behind them? |
| 20:06.29 | youtah | keep in mind, several times, CFP holders are able to fight off an intruder / defend, without ever shooting a single shot. |
| 20:06.33 | unum | well in that specific scenario it sure would be convient to have a gun and be able to aim it |
| 20:06.39 | unum | youtah: link? |
| 20:06.41 | ezakimak | youtah, ROFL. you just won the nerd award for the day! |
| 20:06.58 | unum | youtah: I was trained not to do that in my class |
| 20:07.07 | youtah | correct unum |
| 20:07.13 | youtah | lemme see if I can find it |
| 20:07.22 | Yorokobi | Most personal encounters happen within 6 ft |
| 20:07.27 | unum | they were very clear, NEVER draw your weapon except when firing it |
| 20:07.39 | youtah | yeah |
| 20:07.42 | youtah | The guy was in the mall in ?Oregon? |
| 20:07.47 | unum | if I can scare people by taking the pose why bother carrying? |
| 20:07.54 | youtah | and someone started shooting, the guy took out his gun to shoot |
| 20:07.57 | youtah | and the guy and ran hid |
| 20:08.04 | jima | youtah: washington, iirc |
| 20:08.05 | youtah | and the guy didn't come out until the cops got there |
| 20:08.13 | youtah | Oh, was it Washington? |
| 20:08.15 | Yorokobi | unum, you become a target when you act like you have a weapon |
| 20:08.19 | jima | i think |
| 20:08.30 | ezakimak | they do say that sometimes just the sound of cocking your weapon is enough to make an intruder flee |
| 20:08.31 | unum | I guess there was that woman that the republican fund raiser guy was going to rape |
| 20:08.44 | manithree | ezakimak: so don't carry a glock. |
| 20:08.46 | unum | who make the statement and pose and he changed his mind |
| 20:08.53 | youtah | but you're correct, you don't just pull it out |
| 20:08.53 | unum | but ya she did have the fire power to back it |
| 20:09.01 | youtah | he was being shot at when he pulled his gun out |
| 20:09.04 | ezakimak | what's wrong with them fleeing? |
| 20:09.08 | manithree | unum: I think the proper advice is don't present you're weapon unless you're justified in firing. |
| 20:09.27 | Yorokobi | that depends on the state |
| 20:09.28 | ezakimak | yes--because brandishing is a crime |
| 20:09.28 | unum | manithree: that is not what was taught in the class I took |
| 20:09.30 | youtah | you're supposed to flee, but they said he was in the back of a store |
| 20:09.45 | ezakimak | so only pull it out if justified in using it |
| 20:09.46 | manithree | unum: then the instructor was wrong. |
| 20:09.58 | unum | manithree: doubt it |
| 20:10.08 | youtah | http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/12/15/Man-With-Concealed-Carry-Gun-May-Have-Prevented-Oregon-Shooter-From-Inflicting-More-Carnage |
| 20:10.22 | youtah | Oh, so that's why they didn't flee, apparently he actually shot himself. |
| 20:10.23 | jima | dang, it was oregon. |
| 20:10.45 | unum | that must have been the situation my sister was talking about |
| 20:10.59 | unum | btw among my 5 siblings and spouses 6 carry |
| 20:11.07 | jima | then there was the guy at the smith's with the knife... |
| 20:11.13 | youtah | ezakimak so you liked the animated gif then huh? |
| 20:11.25 | ezakimak | wouldn't say that I "liked" it |
| 20:11.35 | youtah | lol |
| 20:11.41 | unum | I attended a special class that was arranged for my family and was taught by Utah State Representative Curtis Oda |
| 20:12.47 | manithree | The BCI training outline does not say to tell people to shoot if they draw their firearm. Nothing in Utah law requires it. |
| 20:12.50 | Yorokobi | hah, you can't expect a law maker to know the law. |
| 20:13.34 | ezakimak | right, but if you threaten w/lethal force when not justified now you are the criminal |
| 20:13.42 | manithree | ezakimak: right |
| 20:13.45 | youtah | Super Dell got in trouble for brandishing unjustly |
| 20:13.52 | youtah | that's a good example of when not to |
| 20:13.55 | ezakimak | you can shoot while they commit a felony, but once they stop and flee you can no longer |
| 20:14.12 | Yorokobi | unless they're in your house ... |
| 20:14.17 | youtah | correct |
| 20:14.19 | ezakimak | but i love the fact that you can use any force up to (not including) lethal to detain them |
| 20:14.22 | unum | manithree: but it's not wrong for him to teach |
| 20:14.45 | manithree | Doesn't make it right. |
| 20:14.47 | ezakimak | so, beat the sh@t out of them if necessary to keep them there for the cops |
| 20:15.09 | unum | youtah: I think he was actually convicted on lying to the police not brandishing |
| 20:15.15 | unum | he never pulled his weapon |
| 20:15.27 | youtah | oh really? I thought they said he had drawn his gun on them |
| 20:15.35 | youtah | because one of them had a rock |
| 20:15.36 | Yorokobi | AZ passed a great law removing crime victims from civil liability should the criminal become injured while committing the crime. |
| 20:15.47 | ezakimak | hey, they could get him on attempted suicide for that (death by cop) |
| 20:16.11 | youtah | Yorokobi I like it. I wonder if we have anything like that |
| 20:16.27 | unum | they may have SAID he did but I don't think they got a conviction on that |
| 20:16.34 | ezakimak | yes, we do--just recently passed last year, and it saved a guy in springville |
| 20:16.36 | unum | his story was different |
| 20:17.57 | unum | is the bci manual not on line? |
| 20:18.06 | youtah | I will never forget my CFP instructors name |
| 20:18.08 | youtah | Terry N Tate |
| 20:18.20 | youtah | he said after 9-11 he had to re-label all of his suitcases |
| 20:18.28 | youtah | because he had T.N.T. on all of them |
| 20:18.42 | youtah | lol |
| 20:19.27 | eightyeight | superdell was acquitted of brandishing his gun |
| 20:19.39 | unum | that's what I thought |
| 20:19.51 | unum | I think they did convict him of lying to police though |
| 20:19.51 | eightyeight | the jury did find him guilty of lying to police, however |
| 20:19.57 | youtah | gotchya |
| 20:20.00 | eightyeight | jinx |
| 20:20.06 | youtah | I must have not heard the follow up to the store |
| 20:20.08 | youtah | story |
| 20:20.14 | eightyeight | http://www.heraldextra.com/news/article_e6caaff6-73a8-5a16-a099-d32023ee9d74.html |
| 20:20.54 | youtah | wait, he lives/d in Sandy? I thought his mansion was in Draper |
| 20:21.37 | youtah | oh, it happened in Draper, that's right |
| 20:21.46 | youtah | because he was going to go hand gliding |
| 20:21.48 | Q_Continuum | In MN if you commit a crime and your partner in crime dies you can be charged with their murder. |
| 20:21.49 | youtah | hang |
| 20:21.51 | Q_Continuum | And it happens. |
| 20:23.25 | manithree | Q_Continuum: several states have that. I think it's good. |
| 20:23.47 | unum | I actually don't support gun control, and if you want to spend your time training and carrying because you enjoy it, or you think that you're going to happen to be there for the next mass shooting, I don't really care |
| 20:24.09 | unum | but there aspects of the gun culture that terrifies me |
| 20:24.44 | Yorokobi | There's gun culture then there's militant gun culture |
| 20:25.13 | youtah | which is why I believe that they should not force teachers to carry. The ones who are scared, are most likely to have an accident. The ones who are *willing* will also take it seriously, practice, train, and put in the time. |
| 20:25.34 | manithree | youtah: who has suggested forcing teachers to carry? |
| 20:25.41 | youtah | no one in here |
| 20:25.45 | youtah | just a side commentary |
| 20:25.59 | Jayce^ | it's funny I always hear about superdell because my FIL is a power paraglider in CA.. |
| 20:26.14 | Jayce^ | apparently everybody in the PPGA hears about avoiding utah because of dell |
| 20:26.14 | manithree | AFAIK, the only suggestion to force teachers to carry is the straw man raised in opposition to the free CFP classes for teachers. |
| 20:26.31 | youtah | Jayce^ Did you see the video of the guys over Utah Lake? |
| 20:26.55 | youtah | AFAIK? |
| 20:27.45 | unum | who? Curtis Oda of course. |
| 20:27.53 | unum | he's offering a discounted class for teachers |
| 20:28.12 | youtah | what does AFAIK stand for? |
| 20:28.20 | Q_Continuum | I think everyone that wants to should be given a firearm safety course. Not saying they have to choose to own or shoot them - just have been introduced to them so they can at least move them safely in an emergency (say if you find one and cannot contain the situation to just leave it where it is) |
| 20:28.23 | youtah | nm |
| 20:28.25 | manithree | As Far As I Kno |
| 20:28.27 | youtah | as far as I know |
| 20:28.27 | manithree | Know |
| 20:28.27 | Q_Continuum | AFAIK =As Far As I Know |
| 20:28.31 | youtah | lol |
| 20:29.38 | unum | Q_Continuum: the course being discussed does not actually include handling any weapons or anything like that |
| 20:29.46 | youtah | Dude, I would totally slide down this... https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/384277_10151246491925073_1068945112_n.jpg |
| 20:30.06 | Q_Continuum | unum: Perfect. |
| 20:30.21 | unum | the course does include making stuff up about the president |
| 20:30.23 | youtah | but how would they know how to unload it? |
| 20:30.37 | youtah | and make sure the chamber is empty? |
| 20:30.37 | unum | but nothing about shooting, maintaining, or handling a gun |
| 20:31.07 | Q_Continuum | Although I have several friends that I've introduced to guns and they were uncomfortable them even being unloaded in the room - even after months of being there. Yet after I took them to the range once they were fine with them. |
| 20:31.14 | manithree | When it's pointed out that the GFSZA failed in Newtown (and Columbine, and VA Tech), the standard response is that someone wants to force teachers to carry. I dunno who. |
| 20:31.37 | Q_Continuum | youtah: They don't need to know how usually; if they know its there they can at least keep others away from it and send for 'assistance' |
| 20:31.45 | Q_Continuum | Or maybe move it safely? |
| 20:31.56 | Q_Continuum | (Would be my last resort) |
| 20:37.15 | ezakimak | youtah, make sure you *duck* at the bottom--it goes under the handrail! |
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| 20:42.29 | mheath | Q_Continuum: Theres lots of groups that will give free firearms safety courses. |
| 20:43.01 | mheath | But I do wish more people would take advantage of it |
| 20:43.37 | mheath | It's kind of sad how many people are completely ignorant about the functioning of firearms, especially in potentially critical areas like the safety mechanism |
| 20:45.17 | Gate | manithree: I seriously doubt that any rational person is arguing to force teachers to carry. ALLOW them to carry, yes. but force? |
| 20:46.11 | Q_Continuum | ^ |
| 20:46.14 | mheath | Forcing anyone to carry is an absurd idea. Because if they're forced, they're probably uncomfortable with carrying, which means you've probably just made the situation MORE dangerous, not less. |
| 20:46.44 | Gate | Seriously, is anyone arguing to force anyone to carry a gun? The idea is perposterous. |
| 20:47.04 | Gate | s/perpo/prepo/ |
| 20:48.08 | ezakimak | is ibot an apple service? |
| 20:48.43 | Gate | There are supposedly police officers out there who have stated that they will refuse to fire their gun under any circumstances. |
| 20:48.55 | Gate | (other than qualification, obviously) |
| 20:49.03 | ezakimak | wow. why are they in LE then? |
| 20:49.07 | mheath | *thats* ridiculous. |
| 20:49.27 | ezakimak | or do they say that hoping to land a cushy, safe desk job? |
| 20:49.44 | Gate | I agree, it was a cop who told me that, but for all I know its an urban legend |
| 20:50.27 | mheath | People don't (and shouldn't) *want* to fire guns in real world situations. But if you go into that kind of job, you have an inherent responsibility to be *willing* to do it if the need arises. |
| 20:50.34 | Q_Continuum | ^ |
| 20:50.43 | mheath | Same with me in the military. |
| 20:50.58 | mheath | I don't *want* to ever fire a rifle against anyone. But I will if I have to. Thats part of my job. |
| 20:51.34 | Q_Continuum | Eh, the military has a lot of jobs that are nowhere near the front line (usually) - ideally everyone would be capable and willing, but there may be medics or mechanics or HR etc type folk |
| 20:51.55 | Q_Continuum | Police Officer? Your job is to carry one everyday. If you're not willing to use it, GTFO. |
| 20:52.31 | mheath | Q_Continuum: Most branches of the military are huge on giving basic infantry training to everyone, and expects EVERY soldier/sailor/Marine to be reasonably prepared for direct combat operations should the need arise. |
| 20:52.32 | youtah | Whoa I missed a lot |
| 20:52.36 | ezakimak | yep. you're actually a liability carrying w/o will to use it |
| 20:53.18 | Q_Continuum | mheath: I agree, it should be expected. |
| 20:53.34 | youtah | Gate yeah... I see a lot of extremist stuff on the twitter |
| 20:53.36 | Q_Continuum | But there are a few random folk who will serve but don't want to do the dirty deeds themselves. |
| 20:55.05 | mheath | In the military, you're actually not legally allowed to do that. Explicitely doing that classifies you as a concentious objector and leads to discharge. |
| 20:55.24 | mheath | (though in practice, people can avoid that, because, as you said, a lot of jobs are never pushed into the situation) |
| 20:56.25 | youtah | I pretty much agree with everything said here |
| 20:57.28 | Q_Continuum | I seem to recall they had a select few roles or ways to be an objector and still serve? (Nurse, Chaplain?) |
| 20:57.40 | Q_Continuum | I don't know, I have too banged up of knees to consider it really |
| 20:57.56 | unum | ya same here |
| 20:58.00 | mheath | If I recall correctly, when I enlisted one of the official enlistment documents required me to sign that I had to morale reservation to war fighting. |
| 20:58.05 | unum | expect mine aren't banged up, defective by design |
| 20:58.18 | Q_Continuum | One was extended backwards about 30-40 degrees |
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| 20:58.27 | unum | I might have gotten away with the bike test when it was an option |
| 20:58.32 | Q_Continuum | the other gave out from having to take over full duties for the other. |
| 20:58.33 | mheath | Chaplains are explicitely removed from combat operations. They're the only exception that I know of. |
| 20:58.38 | Q_Continuum | Did they do away with teh bike test now? |
| 20:58.48 | unum | I heard that they had |
| 20:58.53 | mheath | But even Chaplains are expected to support military operations philosophically. |
| 20:59.03 | Yorokobi | Not many JAG officers see combat unless they volunteer for it. |
| 20:59.07 | Q_Continuum | That would be my ownly way in (right now) - but I'd have to drop a bunch of weight |
| 21:00.55 | *** part/#utah smcquay (~smcquay@69.169.186.70.provo.static.broadweavenetworks.net) |
| 21:00.59 | Q_Continuum | Which I'm aiming to do this year anyway |
| 21:01.03 | mheath | Q_Continuum: You generally can't join with the bike test. |
| 21:01.06 | manithree | Gate: The anti's claim we are proposing to force teachers to carry. That's their only answer when the failure of GFSZA comes up. |
| 21:01.13 | Q_Continuum | mheath. |
| 21:01.14 | Q_Continuum | ah |
| 21:01.16 | mheath | AFAIK, thats really only used as a special case exception for people that are already in. |
| 21:01.28 | Q_Continuum | Aaah |
| 21:01.39 | Q_Continuum | Waivers for everything if they need you bad enough :-P |
| 21:01.44 | mheath | There used to be exceptions. Particularly for highly qualified Officer cantidates at the height of the war |
| 21:01.52 | Q_Continuum | Yeah depends on 'need' |
| 21:01.59 | mheath | There were stories of double-amputee Psychiatrists being allowed, because the need was so great |
| 21:02.04 | Q_Continuum | I'd be wanted for IT experience and bachelor's |
| 21:02.07 | Q_Continuum | Heh |
| 21:02.09 | unum | I remember walking home one day and two guys jumped out of a truck and tried to recruit me for navy |
| 21:02.21 | unum | offered me quite a bonus when I told them I worked as a software engineer |
| 21:02.24 | mheath | Q_Continuum: It's hard to get them to care about IT experience much, honestly. |
| 21:02.33 | manithree | http://theghostsocietyofutah.angelfire.com/hauntedhotspots.html |
| 21:02.48 | unum | but that would have been 7 years ago |
| 21:02.50 | mheath | At least in the Army, all of our officer accessions don't really care about background or education |
| 21:03.01 | mheath | With the exception of JAG and Medical, which require the proper education |
| 21:03.26 | mheath | That's the reason I've worked in IT for years, and I'm about to commission as a Chemical Corps officer :D |
| 21:05.27 | Q_Continuum | Eagle Scout, 2 and 4-year degrees. |
| 21:05.46 | Q_Continuum | But I'm approaching "old" for what they want. |
| 21:06.34 | mheath | Yeah. They're getting way more restrictive these days, too. Recruitment is waaay different than it was 3 years ago. |
| 21:06.53 | Q_Continuum | Yeah they're cutting back at this point, with few exceptions. |
| 21:07.09 | Q_Continuum | Picky when bodycount is high, less picky when need more bodies. |
| 21:07.22 | mheath | I'm lucky I contracted when I did. I probably wouldn't have a slot, with my history, if I was trying for it right now. |
| 21:09.22 | mheath | Ugh, I'm getting back into my old habbits of assisting with dragging the channel into bizarrely off topic realms. |
| 21:11.01 | Yorokobi | The channel has a topic? |
| 21:11.48 | mheath | Not particularly, I guess. |
| 21:12.29 | mheath | I just used to frequent this channel around a decade ago, when I was a more obnoxious and less useful teenager, and got quite the reputation at one point of not really contributing anything useful. |
| 21:12.30 | Q_Continuum | I was going to say, this channel's name doesn't imply much of a focused topic... |
| 21:13.07 | mheath | They've revised the /topic since then, though. Back then, it was 'supposed' to be focused on Utah-related Open Source Software initiatives and groups |
| 21:14.15 | Q_Continuum | More discrete channels appeared then perhaps? |
| 21:14.17 | Q_Continuum | I don't know. |
| 21:14.22 | Q_Continuum | I've only been here for...9 months |
| 21:17.04 | Gate | manithree: ah, so its an attack on the caricature of a pro-self-defense argument |
| 21:17.55 | mheath | If I ever wear out my welcome, someone please let me know :) |
| 21:18.19 | manithree | Gate: That's my guess. I gotten it at least 3 times now. |
| 21:19.34 | jima | mheath: at first when i noticed you in here i was gonna razz you with "GET BACK TO WORK" |
| 21:19.39 | jima | so...hmm. |
| 21:19.43 | jima | Q_Continuum: GET BACK TO WORK |
| 21:19.52 | Q_Continuum | DAMNIT |
| 21:20.05 | Q_Continuum | I AM WORKING |
| 21:20.06 | Q_Continuum | THIS MAC IS SLOW |
| 21:20.20 | mheath | jima: don't really work anywhere, until school starts next week :D |
| 21:20.49 | jima | mheath: yeah, that's why my first step was to confirm whether you still worked there. ;-) |
| 21:21.12 | Q_Continuum | jima is across ze cube-wall. We should roll stuff downhill at youtah |
| 21:21.47 | jima | duct-tapes Q_Continuum to cart, rolls him down the hill at youtah |
| 21:22.00 | Yorokobi | Where do you guys work? |
| 21:22.07 | Q_Continuum | NNNNOOOOOoooooo |
| 21:22.23 | jima | Yorokobi: where mheath used to work. sort of. |
| 21:22.47 | Yorokobi | Where did mheath used to work? sort of. |
| 21:23.02 | Yorokobi | :) |
| 21:23.16 | jima | he worked for tpusa, we work for the parent company. |
| 21:23.42 | Q_Continuum | Oh great now we're gonna get razzed here too, just like at the grocery store :-P |
| 21:23.44 | jima | (i'd feel bad about ratting him out, but he said it in-channel earlier) |
| 21:24.29 | jima | yeah...i ran into a woman with an "ashdown for senate" or whatever t-shirt at the grocery store...when she found out where i worked she started railing on me about the company. |
| 21:24.31 | Yorokobi | is not familiar with tpusa |
| 21:24.46 | jima | Yorokobi: big call center company, also lots of IT types |
| 21:25.24 | Yorokobi | Convergys? |
| 21:25.29 | jima | no, bigger. |
| 21:25.33 | Yorokobi | *shrug* |
| 21:25.40 | pashdown | pretty sure i know who that was |
| 21:25.46 | jima | pashdown: oh? |
| 21:25.54 | pashdown | #1 fan |
| 21:25.59 | Q_Continuum | lol |
| 21:26.04 | jima | ok. |
| 21:26.14 | joshh | does the name start with h? |
| 21:26.20 | pashdown | sh |
| 21:26.29 | pashdown | she's been a customer since the early days |
| 21:26.40 | jima | she specifically sought us out after that, coming up to us a few more times to complain about the company. :-| |
| 21:26.44 | unum | lot's of call center types in here.... |
| 21:26.47 | joshh | third letter e? |
| 21:26.48 | youtah | ducks as a cart with Q_Continuum taped to it flies over head |
| 21:26.48 | pashdown | oh complain? |
| 21:27.01 | Q_Continuum | Our employer/co not yours |
| 21:27.03 | pashdown | oh |
| 21:27.08 | jima | yeah, something about a class-action lawsuit, etc etc etc |
| 21:27.16 | Q_Continuum | Didn't say when or anything |
| 21:27.27 | Q_Continuum | I moved here in April...that was...May? |
| 21:27.30 | Q_Continuum | Maybe? |
| 21:27.38 | jima | Q_Continuum: well, mheath's former employer, not ours exactly. |
| 21:27.46 | Q_Continuum | True. |
| 21:27.56 | Q_Continuum | Just like Best Buy Stores wasn't my employer. |
| 21:28.00 | Q_Continuum | Heh. |
| 21:28.37 | youtah | Come on Spotify |
| 21:28.40 | youtah | play dang you! |
| 21:28.45 | jima | slow down, spotify |
| 21:28.50 | jima | taunt youtah some more |
| 21:28.57 | youtah | lol |
| 21:29.03 | youtah | jima |
| 21:29.09 | youtah | you see the photo of my car I took last night? |
| 21:29.13 | jima | yes, i did |
| 21:29.15 | youtah | while it was zero degrees? |
| 21:29.16 | jima | neat shot. |
| 21:29.18 | youtah | zero |
| 21:29.20 | Q_Continuum | Taunt him until he sends us some PCI-E cards |
| 21:29.27 | youtah | lol |
| 21:29.29 | jima | pci-e? why? |
| 21:29.30 | Q_Continuum | :-P |
| 21:29.37 | Q_Continuum | For home, of course. |
| 21:29.39 | jima | we need mezzanine cards, dude. |
| 21:29.42 | Q_Continuum | Why would we want them for work? |
| 21:29.43 | Q_Continuum | lol |
| 21:29.46 | jima | meh, who cares about home |
| 21:29.49 | youtah | looks over at all the PCI-E cards on his desk |
| 21:29.56 | youtah | pets the cards |
| 21:30.01 | Q_Continuum | Freak. |
| 21:30.06 | youtah | lol |
| 21:30.18 | jima | youtah: so what'd you think of that jerk josh? ;-) |
| 21:30.48 | youtah | lol, didn't you know him? |
| 21:31.01 | jima | kind of, i think i met him once at a tclug function |
| 21:31.07 | youtah | that "jerk" eh? |
| 21:31.08 | jima | otherwise just online |
| 21:31.14 | youtah | not my words |
| 21:31.34 | youtah | he was nice to me. Although I had very little face time with him |
| 21:31.43 | jima | youtah: i'm mostly kidding...he and i got into a "spirited disagreement" about the value of deploying ipv6. :-) |
| 21:31.44 | youtah | he likes to tell stories, but what computer geek doesn't |
| 21:32.00 | youtah | lol |
| 21:32.23 | jima | he suggested the idea of turning it into a physical fight the next time he was in town. |
| 21:32.40 | youtah | Whoa. All over IPv6? |
| 21:32.42 | jima | imagines it was a joke, but who knows with those bsd guys. ;-) |
| 21:32.53 | youtah | Spotify! Why you suggest MIA?! |
| 21:33.05 | jima | youtah: for the taunting? |
| 21:33.17 | jima | whee, 9% left before i can get back to work |
| 21:34.17 | youtah | Nate Wade Subaru posted my photo on their Facebook page. I've gotten three messages asking how much to take photos of their cars |
| 21:34.26 | jima | hah, nice |
| 21:34.32 | Yorokobi | link? |
| 21:34.41 | youtah | lol, on of them a teenager |
| 21:34.48 | youtah | but he has the $$, then sure! |
| 21:35.17 | youtah | https://www.facebook.com/natewadesubaru/posts/477118658992517 |
| 21:35.48 | Yorokobi | Nice |
| 21:36.21 | youtah | no flashes or strobes. 100% hand painted with a a cool temp LED light |
| 21:36.42 | jima | it's a nice shot. |
| 21:37.04 | youtah | gracias |
| 21:37.28 | Q_Continuum | Hey you can fund more fun pics to encourage more business from that :-P |
| 21:37.31 | Yorokobi | The wall-eye lens makes your rear tire look canted a bit |
| 21:37.32 | youtah | I dont think the temp gauge on my car reads into the negatives |
| 21:37.36 | Q_Continuum | And/or cheap/free service for your Subaru! |
| 21:37.42 | youtah | yeah, the distortion looks strange on it |
| 21:37.50 | youtah | although, that is actually a hill too |
| 21:37.59 | youtah | so I think the tire was actually being pushed up as well |
| 21:38.29 | youtah | Exactly Q_Continuum |
| 21:39.28 | Q_Continuum | "Here go take this one up in the mountains and take some photos." |
| 21:40.32 | youtah | "Um, yeah... I need a car to go take to Moab...." |
| 21:43.33 | Q_Continuum | Hehe |
| 21:43.43 | youtah | Someone asked me what the weirdest photo shoot was that I've ever done |
| 21:43.46 | youtah | I had no idea how to answer |
| 21:43.53 | Q_Continuum | They would probably be for it if you can have a long list of places to take photos |
| 21:44.10 | youtah | I have a HUGE list of places to take photos |
| 21:44.51 | Jayce^ | "here's my garage, Here's one at my parking spot at work..." |
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| 21:45.34 | youtah | lol |
| 21:45.58 | youtah | My BIL also is one of the owners of a river rafting company in Moab |
| 21:46.06 | youtah | and we're always going awesome places shooting video/stills |
| 21:47.27 | youtah | and the Moab Adventure Center (used to be the old Taco Bell) |
| 21:48.18 | youtah | Example: the opening scene to this.... http://vimeo.com/54619709 my little secret.... Buwa ha ha ha! |
| 22:06.45 | goozbach | http://www.myextralife.com/comic/qbert/ |
| 22:08.56 | goozbach | also https://twitter.com/talkradioP1/status/286811832772096001/photo/1 |
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| 22:18.22 | harleypig | goozbach: that qbert comic is ... there are no words ... |
| 22:18.27 | harleypig | but it is funny |
| 22:23.33 | harleypig | I want to create an rpm for the vim editor from the mercurial repository ... anyone know of a tutorial or something that will help me figure out how to do that? |
| 22:28.06 | goozbach | harleypig: get the src.rpm from somewhere |
| 22:28.27 | goozbach | do rpm -ivh src.rpm |
| 22:28.33 | harleypig | the latest I can find is 7.2 and it's confusing |
| 22:28.36 | goozbach | then replace the source0 with the new upstream |
| 22:28.45 | goozbach | fedora should have a recent'ish one |
| 22:28.52 | harleypig | also, 7.2 used cvs and 7.3 switched to mercurial |
| 22:29.18 | harleypig | I've found a suse one, but it's using a tarball. |
| 22:29.48 | goozbach | you have to have a tarball in an rpm |
| 22:29.53 | goozbach | hg clone; |
| 22:29.57 | goozbach | tar cxf ... |
| 22:30.02 | goozbach | then rpmbuild |
| 22:30.19 | goozbach | http://www.gtlib.gatech.edu/pub/fedora.redhat/linux//development/rawhide/source/SRPMS/v/ |
| 22:31.35 | harleypig | feh ... what keywords did you search with (or did you alreadyknow about that site)? |
| 22:31.38 | harleypig | and thanks. |
| 22:32.28 | goozbach | downloads.fedoraproject.org |
| 22:32.44 | goozbach | and I use gtlib as it's the closest geographic mirror to me |
| 22:35.01 | harleypig | ah |
| 22:35.07 | harleypig | and they're using a tarball as well. |
| 22:35.22 | goozbach | can an rpm use a git checkout? |
| 22:35.27 | goozbach | or hg clone? |
| 22:35.42 | goozbach | from what I understand there's *ALWAYS* a tarball |
| 22:35.46 | goozbach | in the src rpm |
| 22:35.48 | goozbach | anyhow |
| 22:36.54 | harleypig | oh, well, that sucks then. |
| 22:37.07 | goozbach | not really |
| 22:37.12 | goozbach | it adds a couple of steps |
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| 23:10.07 | mheath | < jima> yeah, something about a class-action lawsuit, etc etc etc |
| 23:10.19 | mheath | Probably the employee wages one. |
| 23:10.28 | mheath | was part of the 'class' of that |
| 23:10.38 | mheath | Got a whopping check for some $5.00 |
| 23:12.47 | mheath | And I was supposedly 'wronged' for over a year |
| 23:14.24 | harleypig | class action suits are a scam by and for lawyers |
| 23:15.11 | mheath | Yeah |
| 23:15.16 | mheath | I read the explanation of the settlement |
| 23:15.29 | mheath | The original people who brought the lawsuit, and their attorneys, got some 95% of the payout |
| 23:15.43 | mheath | Only 5% was left over for the other thousands of people |
| 23:16.13 | mheath | Not that I care or feel personally wronged. I thought the reason for the lawsuit was fairly questionable, and didn't feel entitled to anything. |
| 23:16.51 | manithree | mheath: Isn't that how almost all class-action suits go? |
| 23:17.00 | mheath | I'd imagine so |
| 23:17.36 | mheath | I just never realized that the payout was really *that* skewed. I expected it to be skewed, but this was almost to a comical degree. |
| 23:18.11 | mheath | I was supposedly paid unfairly for over a year, allegedly on almost every day I worked full time, and I got a $5.00 payout :D |
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| 23:23.14 | Gate | Yeah, what frustrates me is when you get "included" in a class action lawsuit you disagree with |
| 23:23.33 | mheath | You're not really by force |
| 23:23.41 | harleypig | Gate: you can always refuse |
| 23:23.45 | mheath | They sent me a bunch of documentation on how I could remove myself from it |
| 23:24.03 | Gate | Like the one against google, I got included and by the time I realized it I missed their little exlusion deadline |
| 23:24.03 | mheath | IIRC, simply not cashing the settlement check officially conveyed that you withdrew as a party |
| 23:24.30 | harleypig | gah! why do I have to update filesystem in order to update vim? @#$^@#$@!@!@# |
| 23:24.45 | Gate | Yeah, never got a check for that one. Never even looked into the lawsuite beyond that. From the surface it looked like google should win. |
| 23:25.32 | mheath | harleypig: What distro do you run? |
| 23:26.38 | harleypig | centos 6.3 |
| 23:26.53 | mheath | Gate: Google usually doesn't settle class action lawsuit with cash payments to the entire class |
| 23:27.03 | harleypig | I know why, but I mean ... FEH! |
| 23:27.06 | mheath | The class is generally so large that's impractical |
| 23:27.30 | mheath | Most of the ones I've seen, they'll do something like contribute to some non-profit or another thats loosely related to the nature of the injustice |
| 23:28.04 | mheath | I guess thats a plus. Even if you disagree with the nature of the lawsuit, not too much harm can come from money being donated to a non-profit |
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| 23:55.59 | macnewbold | having a skewed payout in a class action makes some sense to me. if the lawyers are doing it on contingency, them getting 30-40% seems pretty standard, and for the plaintiffs actually fighting the case, they should get a big chunk of it for their trouble. 95% seems a bit excessive |
