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| 15:52.42 | Jayce^ | stderr-: yeah, they'll usually have a couple during the year, the site lists them later in the year normally |
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| 16:56.41 | stderr- | Jayce^: thanks man. |
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| 18:18.44 | shalkie | There is a shooting at an elementry school in CT. There are 27 dead, 18 children. |
| 18:19.01 | shalkie | 18 of the 27 that is. |
| 18:21.05 | ezakimak | http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20730717 |
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| 18:31.50 | manithree | Horrible. |
| 18:32.08 | manithree | But let me be the first to blame the tea party |
| 18:35.03 | ezakimak | "this may affect gun laws in the u.s."--lame. people kill people w/ or w/o gun laws. |
| 18:37.22 | ezakimak | i fail to see why people blame the implement and not the wielder |
| 18:37.32 | ezakimak | *weilder |
| 18:40.14 | stderr- | I think that's pretty fallacious. Pro gun control people don't blame guns per se - they blame the system that allows certain people to own firearms. |
| 18:41.14 | Yorokobi | Not if you read the rhetoric |
| 18:41.16 | manithree | No, they blame the guns. I've heard numerous people say Jevon Belcher and the mother of his child would be just fine now if it weren't for guns |
| 18:41.16 | stderr- | I'm not pro banning firearms, but I think it's pretty ridiculous that someone like the aurora shooter who was behaving remarkably erratically and was visiting several mental health professionals prior to purchasing his firearms was able to easily get them, but a well-adjusted pothead can't purchase firearms, for example. |
| 18:41.41 | ezakimak | but that presumes we have an unfallable ability to profile a person and predict their future actions as malevolent |
| 18:41.49 | stderr- | I'm not talking about internet rhetoric, I'm talking about reasonable people on the side of gun control. |
| 18:41.57 | manithree | The brady center claims in their statistics that if they had there way, all suicides with guns would be prevented. |
| 18:42.08 | stderr- | Where? |
| 18:42.11 | Yorokobi | The Brady campaign is broke, almost defunct. |
| 18:42.29 | manithree | Still, they're the biggest gun-banning org in the US |
| 18:43.02 | Yorokobi | I'd put the Mayor's against guns group above the Brady Campaign |
| 18:43.16 | manithree | that's possible |
| 18:44.15 | stderr- | All I'm saying is as a veteran who owns over 25 firearms, I think it's ridiculous to say that people on the side of gun control don't have some salient points. Not everything is black and white. It doesn't have to be "BAN ALL GUNS!" or "YOU'LL TAKE MY GUNS FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS" |
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| 18:46.41 | ezakimak | i just get annoyed that some people can't understand that gun ban laws only disarm law-abiding citizens--not criminally minded--who already don't care--and will manage to arm themselves regardless |
| 18:46.56 | manithree | stderr-: bradycenter.org won't load for me atm, so I can't get the link. |
| 18:47.12 | stderr- | mentally broken people aren't necessarily law breaking or criminally minded citizens, either. |
| 18:48.03 | harleypig | Everyone should be armed. If the adults at that school were armed, they'd be cleaning his brains off the walls and that's it. |
| 18:48.22 | harleypig | No killed or wounded children. |
| 18:48.27 | harleypig | No media frenzy. |
| 18:48.29 | stderr- | armed teachers, now? |
| 18:48.39 | harleypig | armed populace |
| 18:48.42 | Yorokobi | Plus, most firearms used in crimes and mass murder are obtained illegally. Legislating against lawful gun owners "to save the children" is similar to putting DRM on your software to prevent piracy. You only hurt legitimate customers/law-abiting citizens. |
| 18:49.20 | stderr- | I wouldn't trust half the CCW holders I know in a combat situation. |
| 18:49.45 | stderr- | Yorokobi: so no mental health flags checked by organizations like BCI? You're opposed to that? |
| 18:49.47 | harleypig | But the other half would be the ones saving your ass. |
| 18:49.52 | Yorokobi | UT law allows teachers with CCW permits to carry in the classroom. IMO, that's a good policy. |
| 18:50.03 | stderr- | harleypig: I don't need my ass saved. |
| 18:50.11 | Yorokobi | stderr-, BCI doesn't have the means to perform mental health checks. |
| 18:50.23 | stderr- | (and the other half would be shooting all their friends like those idiot cops in Ogden) |
| 18:50.28 | harleypig | stderr-: :] |
| 18:50.37 | harleypig | You can only shoot in one direction at a time. |
| 18:50.46 | stderr- | Yorokobi: right... |
| 18:50.50 | Yorokobi | stderr-, I think you'd be surprised at the number of gun dealers who do a better job of preventing "crazies" from obtaining guns than the gov't. |
| 18:50.52 | manithree | Gun control is about enforcing liberalism, not reducing crime, so arguments that gun control won't reduce crime won't work with pro-control crowd. |
| 18:53.19 | Yorokobi | stderr-, http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/12/robert-farago/incendiary-images-of-the-day-spree-killing-data-from-mother-jones/ |
| 18:54.00 | stderr- | Again, I never mentioned an outright ban on guns. |
| 18:54.20 | stderr- | Of any kind, really. |
| 18:54.38 | stderr- | So these arguments mean nothing to me. Chicago, CT, NJ, etc, gun laws are ridiculous. |
| 18:54.39 | Yorokobi | :) I'm giving you semi-biased numbers to look at. |
| 18:55.16 | manithree | stderr-: You didn't, but that's really what Brady and MAIG want (because they've gotten it before) |
| 18:55.31 | stderr- | I don't support either group. |
| 18:55.34 | Yorokobi | (As an aside, there are a number of mentally unstable police officers on patrol.) |
| 18:55.44 | stderr- | Yorokobi: and there we certainly concur. |
| 18:56.21 | stderr- | I'm pro gun training, education, and identification of mental problems. I'm all for anyone who is responsible, well trained, and sane to own _any_ sort of firearm. |
| 18:56.47 | manithree | stderr-: No but you mentioned Pro-gun control people, and that's who they are. |
| 18:56.49 | ezakimak | the data at that link doesn't really show anything--I truly think that if it were more difficult to obtain guns legally, the orange and green bars would merely change in lock-step |
| 18:57.24 | Yorokobi | Speaking of training, is the Polite Society still doing their monthly gathering? I heard talk of Appleseed but since I'm an AZ resident (and have plenty of AS opportunities) I didn't follow the conversation too closely. |
| 18:57.51 | stderr- | I don't know, I was trying to figure out Appleseed dates for my wife. |
| 18:58.52 | manithree | Yorokobi: They NEVER update their web site. You have to get on their mailing list, and they are doing things pretty regularly (dunno about monthly) |
| 18:59.51 | Yorokobi | Well, a few years ago when I was in SLC the Polite Society would do free pistol training on the first Saturday of the month at the outdoor range on I-80 near Park City |
| 18:59.57 | Yorokobi | Well worth attending. |
| 19:00.14 | Yorokobi | Anyway, gotta go to a meeting. Splunk loves their meetings ... :/ |
| 19:00.24 | stderr- | in other gun related news, been trying to find an M&P Shield for a new carry |
| 19:00.39 | stderr- | holiday season plus reelection, the ones I have been able to find are really marked up |
| 19:01.04 | stderr- | my wife is trying to steal my p290 because she likes it so much so I was going to try to carrot/stick her with the Shield :P |
| 19:04.21 | joshh | sounds like a keeper |
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| 20:05.13 | ezakimak | is this the guy? http://www.facebook.com/rlanza |
| 20:10.05 | Migs | page not found |
| 20:10.57 | ezakimak | maybe they found it already |
| 20:11.18 | ezakimak | yep. that must've been him. they took it down. |
| 20:11.44 | ezakimak | a refresh came up 404 |
| 20:21.52 | ezakimak | "meaningful action... *regardless of the politics*".. wonder what's up his sleeve |
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| 21:36.07 | stderr- | ezakimak: Nah, that's his brother. It was Adam Lanza who committed the crimes. |
| 21:36.18 | ezakimak | yes. the page is back up now. |
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| 21:38.15 | Migs | wow, look at all the people who just jumped to the conclusion that he killed them |
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| 21:48.45 | stderr- | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PezlFNTGWv4&feature=player_embedded#! |
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| 21:50.50 | stderr- | Meanwhile, you have reporters rounding up 6 and 7 year olds for instant reactions. |
| 21:50.53 | stderr- | Sickening. |
| 21:59.10 | Migs | wait, what? |
| 21:59.15 | Migs | They're interviewing KIDS? |
| 21:59.53 | Migs | I thought it was sick enough that they had some camera guy snapping pictures of parents freaking out and crying hysterically |
| 21:59.59 | Migs | then plastering those all over the web |
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| 23:07.00 | harleypig | My heart goes out to Ryan Lanza (not the shooter) ... if he's lucky he'll just be spat upon. More likely he'll find himself breathing through a tube ... |
| 23:07.46 | Yorokobi | On the flip side, perhaps he'll be able to sue CNN (or whoever) for defamation/libel |
| 23:08.01 | harleypig | doubtful |
| 23:08.41 | Yorokobi | Success depends on two things. Whether any harm occurred and the attorney hired. |
| 23:09.55 | harleypig | harm has occurred ... he was named as murderer of children and his face used. |
| 23:11.05 | harleypig | doesn't matter they took his picture down ... his picture was shared more than 15k times within the first few minutes. |
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