| 00:13.37 | youtah | http://www.xrite.com/custom_page.aspx?PageID=77 |
| 00:13.41 | youtah | Perfect score baby! |
| 00:18.37 | Gate | That tests your monitor as much as you.... |
| 00:21.34 | youtah | it is designed to be able to be completed on a simple LCD monitor using VGA |
| 00:21.44 | youtah | using sRGB |
| 00:25.10 | Gate | not perfect, but not bad |
| 00:30.31 | youtah | yeah, for men.... less than 30 is awesome |
| 00:36.28 | ezakimak | i just got perfect |
| 00:36.51 | Gate | I got 8, but mainly because I wasn't willing to give it another 5 minutes |
| 00:36.57 | ezakimak | used srgb, but checked also w/adobe rgb and some other preset temperatures |
| 00:37.07 | youtah | lol |
| 00:37.10 | Gate | Machine enhancement! |
| 00:43.40 | ezakimak | how so? i didn't change anything after looking w/the other temps |
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| 15:09.10 | goozbach | http://i.imgur.com/uqvbG.jpg |
| 15:09.56 | manithree | goozbach: he must be carrying one of the those .9 mm guns I keep seeing on KSL |
| 15:12.30 | goozbach | my squirrel army is much better equipt since I found that minature arms dealer |
| 15:12.49 | goozbach | sadly dragonskin can't make body armor that small :( |
| 15:13.33 | goozbach | but we make up for it in speed/cunning |
| 15:14.11 | manithree | cunning squirrels? speed and quick-temper, maybe |
| 15:17.42 | Yorokobi | They're also good at throwing small rocks. |
| 15:18.24 | goozbach | you've not seen my training ground apparently |
| 15:19.04 | eightyeight | why would you dress up a taxidermied squirrel? |
| 15:19.18 | goozbach | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DsuVLsDyln4 |
| 15:19.34 | goozbach | eightyeight: who said anything about taxidermy? :) |
| 15:20.57 | manithree | goozbach: lol |
| 15:21.40 | eightyeight | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjLmYqjYScY |
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| 16:12.33 | saturdayplace | Can't seem to get selinux going on a new box: |
| 16:12.46 | saturdayplace | [root@chunk etc]# setenforce 1 |
| 16:12.46 | saturdayplace | setenforce: SELinux is disabled |
| 16:12.57 | saturdayplace | what the what? |
| 16:13.50 | goozbach | saturdayplace: look at /etc/selinux/config |
| 16:13.50 | saturdayplace | /etc/sysconfig/selinux: http://dpaste.org/7uziA/ |
| 16:14.10 | goozbach | weird |
| 16:14.26 | goozbach | what does 'getenforce' show? |
| 16:14.37 | saturdayplace | Disabled |
| 16:15.13 | goozbach | cat /proc/cmdline |
| 16:15.21 | goozbach | and look at your grub config |
| 16:15.35 | saturdayplace | [root@chunk etc]# cat /proc/cmdline |
| 16:15.35 | saturdayplace | quiet |
| 16:16.10 | saturdayplace | [root@chunk etc]# whereis grub |
| 16:16.10 | saturdayplace | grub: |
| 16:17.02 | saturdayplace | the only thing in /boot/grub is splash.zpm.gz |
| 16:17.20 | saturdayplace | /zpm/xpm/ |
| 16:18.44 | goozbach | which distro is this? |
| 16:19.53 | saturdayplace | Centos 6.something sucker just froze or rebooted or something. |
| 16:20.49 | Jayce | goozbach: surprised you didn't have input on my g+/fb question yesterday |
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| 16:22.18 | saturdayplace | Bah, so my VPS host died just now. Fun. |
| 16:22.55 | goozbach | saturdayplace: it's running as a guest? |
| 16:22.59 | saturdayplace | yep |
| 16:23.30 | goozbach | if it's paravirtualized, then you're at the mercy of the host kernel |
| 16:23.56 | goozbach | if the host kernel doens't have SELinux enabled you're boned |
| 16:24.06 | saturdayplace | ah, didn't know |
| 16:24.08 | goozbach | Jayce: I'd say zfs if you're ok with that |
| 16:24.28 | goozbach | if you're fully virtualized, then making sure your kernel supports selinux is a good first step |
| 16:24.34 | goozbach | (what that means I'm not sure) |
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| 16:32.27 | Jayce | what about vs btrfs? |
| 16:33.37 | eightyeight | not stable yet, and a far cry from the features zfs on linux provides |
| 16:33.39 | eightyeight | imo |
| 16:36.41 | Jayce | eightyeight: since you have experience, any way to set up three drives in zfs, migrate data to them, then add two more drives of a different size to the pool and have it work? |
| 16:37.20 | Jayce | and possibly in a zfs 2 vs 1 "raid" |
| 16:37.23 | Jayce | still reading docs |
| 16:37.49 | eightyeight | well, if you're going to raid, then the drives need to be the same size. otherwise, they'll be resized to the smallest drive |
| 16:38.01 | eightyeight | unless you want too raids |
| 16:38.04 | eightyeight | s/too/two/ |
| 16:38.34 | Jayce | dang, ok |
| 16:38.46 | eightyeight | each storage pool utilizes only one raid set |
| 16:38.54 | eightyeight | so, you could have two pools |
| 16:38.56 | Jayce | was hoping it was like my drobo that I could use a pool of varying sizes |
| 16:39.30 | eightyeight | that may be possible. if it is, i'm not aware of it |
| 16:40.26 | Jayce | funny, a good friend suggests btrfs over zfs for linux stability + performance :) |
| 16:41.40 | eightyeight | http://zfsonlinux.org is still not "stable", but i would argue it's much further along than btrfs. it's definitely more feature complete. and i would wager that it will become stable before btrfs does |
| 16:44.36 | Jayce | that's the one I've been playing with so far |
| 16:45.06 | goozbach | what's the workload? |
| 16:45.09 | goozbach | just general storage? |
| 16:45.16 | goozbach | main backup storage |
| 16:46.38 | eightyeight | i know that is directed at Jayce, but i use my zfs pool for two main things personally: shared storage backend for VMs using glusterfs and rsync backups for all sorts of data |
| 16:47.05 | eightyeight | i've been pleased with the performance, actually |
| 16:48.57 | goozbach | if you've got the data elsewhere I'd just dump the drive into a zfs JBOD |
| 16:49.07 | goozbach | if you don't I'd use raid2z at least |
| 16:49.10 | goozbach | if not raidz3 |
| 16:50.28 | eightyeight | i went raidz1 |
| 16:50.43 | goozbach | any disks over 2Tb? |
| 16:50.51 | eightyeight | 4x1TB |
| 16:50.57 | goozbach | that's safe enough |
| 16:51.16 | goozbach | if I had any members bigger than 2T I'd suggest at least raidz2 |
| 16:51.26 | eightyeight | i setup a cronjob to alert me if the pool isn't clean as well, so i can replace the failed drive quickly |
| 16:51.52 | goozbach | heh I said big member |
| 16:51.55 | goozbach | :) |
| 16:52.15 | eightyeight | so far, i've had 2 drives fail, and i was notified of the failure within 5min, and had the drive replaced that day |
| 16:52.41 | eightyeight | but, with glusterfs replication, i've also got the data stored on another physical pool in a different box |
| 16:52.54 | eightyeight | HA ftw |
| 16:53.38 | goozbach | yup |
| 16:53.48 | goozbach | how are you exporting the storage on the backend? |
| 16:53.57 | goozbach | nfs? |
| 16:54.24 | eightyeight | right now TCP. but i have 2xDDR IB onboard, so RDMA will be the future |
| 16:54.35 | eightyeight | no, using the fuse gluster mount |
| 16:54.39 | eightyeight | over ethernet |
| 16:55.22 | goozbach | guess I should have said front end |
| 16:55.33 | eightyeight | :) |
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| 17:07.14 | goozbach | whatever happend to system-config-network-tui? |
| 17:07.18 | goozbach | grr |
| 17:08.24 | goozbach | what's the lowest-barrier-to-entry to configure two interfaces on Fedora 18 |
| 17:08.27 | goozbach | one with dhcp |
| 17:08.32 | goozbach | the other with a atatic address |
| 17:08.34 | goozbach | ? |
| 17:08.43 | goozbach | atatic/static |
| 17:13.22 | ezakimak | on my last giant project they ditched glusterfs for moosefs because of non-deterministic behavior during failure scenarios |
| 17:14.34 | errstr | that makes sense, being that gluster is decentralized and moose isn't |
| 17:15.37 | ezakimak | i believe on moose you can have redundant master servers also |
| 17:16.04 | errstr | when we were looking at it that functionality was alpha-status |
| 17:17.18 | ezakimak | oh. well then it still has a single point of failure. |
| 17:17.49 | ezakimak | but at leasts that's only for availability and not integrity |
| 17:17.50 | errstr | yeah, that was a big deal breaker for us |
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| 17:18.30 | eightyeight | moose also is a performance killer on writes, the way it breaks down the file(s) |
| 17:18.53 | ezakimak | bbiam |
| 17:19.00 | errstr | I'm still not convinced that any distributed/cluster FS is solid enough, yet. |
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| 17:19.55 | eightyeight | yeah |
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| 17:20.12 | eightyeight | for the most part, after learning glusterfs, and ironing out some of its issues, i'm mostly pleased |
| 17:20.14 | eightyeight | but i agree |
| 17:25.59 | errstr | sounds like you are in the "acceptance" stage of grief |
| 17:26.10 | eightyeight | hah |
| 17:26.18 | eightyeight | i'm past the denial period though |
| 17:32.29 | goozbach | meh, I just broke down and install nm-connection-editor |
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| 17:32.38 | goozbach | and used that to generate my ifcfg-* files |
| 17:33.16 | eightyeight | goozbach: weren't you a guru? you should be familiar with vim, and all of the ifcfg-* files. :) |
| 17:33.34 | goozbach | eightyeight: *I* am |
| 17:33.46 | goozbach | but I'm trying to hand off this server build process |
| 17:33.58 | goozbach | and was trying to reduce the barrier of entry |
| 17:34.33 | goozbach | customer is familiar with system-config-network |
| 17:36.11 | goozbach | that, and I've got better things to do than memorize all the options in ifcfg-* |
| 17:36.12 | goozbach | :D |
| 17:36.27 | goozbach | was that HWADDR or HW_ADDR? |
| 17:40.06 | Jayce | goozbach: either 3 2tbs to start, or 3 3tbs |
| 17:40.18 | Jayce | two 1.5's existing in a mirror for now |
| 17:40.25 | Jayce | gotta move the data |
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| 18:08.21 | youtah | I have a twinkie |
| 18:08.31 | youtah | it can be yours for three low, easy payments, of $5 a month |
| 18:08.38 | youtah | for three months |
| 18:08.42 | youtah | OR |
| 18:08.44 | shalkie | goozbach: Or "Should I use MACADDR or HWADDR? Can I use them both?" |
| 18:08.50 | youtah | Hang onto your hats folks.... |
| 18:09.09 | youtah | You can BUY IT NOW for $12!!! That's a savings of $3!!! |
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| 18:10.22 | Yorokobi | I can still get Twinkies at the store for a lot less than that. |
| 18:10.28 | eightyeight | youtah: i can get fat for much cheaper |
| 18:10.49 | Jayce | Yorokobi: man, not that I've found.. |
| 18:10.55 | Jayce | not that I would usually buy any |
| 18:11.10 | Jayce | but last week at my bro-in-laws he had the fryer out.. |
| 18:11.16 | Jayce | so wanted to deep-fry :) |
| 18:11.18 | Yorokobi | I'll stick with the Little Debbie Oatmeal Cookies |
| 18:13.06 | goozbach | I prefer bimbo's pinguinos |
| 18:13.33 | ezakimak | buffalo jerky ftw. |
| 18:13.34 | goozbach | and if any of ya'll want to ship raspberry filled donuts to me I wouldn't object |
| 18:13.59 | Jayce | putting those in your chocolate milk for breakfast? |
| 18:14.10 | Jayce | thought your wife broke you of those habits |
| 18:14.21 | goozbach | ummmm |
| 18:14.30 | goozbach | yeah |
| 18:14.44 | goozbach | nevermind (I will pm you an address) |
| 18:15.02 | goozbach | I don't want anything (paypal accepted?) |
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| 18:15.35 | Jayce | goozbach: just tell your wife you are taking one of the jobs here.. then you'll be able to get them yourself :) |
| 18:16.01 | Jayce | BTW, our admin team *really* needs to hire more people.. so if any admins are looking |
| 18:16.10 | goozbach | but then I'd have to live in Utah (no offense) |
| 18:16.21 | goozbach | I would love to come in as an admin consultant |
| 18:16.25 | Jayce | goozbach: yes, yes you would |
| 18:16.28 | goozbach | get them all setup with an ansible deployment |
| 18:16.41 | *** part/#utah dfinn (~Adium@208.54.4.188) |
| 18:16.46 | goozbach | I'm just about to the point I'm ready to do cloudstack engagements |
| 18:16.51 | goozbach | if anyone is looking |
| 18:16.55 | youtah | yeah but those twinkies you are getting at the store weren't purchased on the SAME DAY they filed chapter 11! |
| 18:17.02 | youtah | So these are special twinkies |
| 18:17.17 | goozbach | why is vim segfaulting? |
| 18:18.39 | youtah | Can you legally buy fully automatic airsoft guns? |
| 18:18.55 | goozbach | my little brother did |
| 18:19.05 | Q_CONTINUUM | Yes you can |
| 18:19.05 | youtah | I have this bloody woodpecker |
| 18:19.14 | goozbach | yay! |
| 18:19.15 | Q_CONTINUUM | as they aren't 'firearms' |
| 18:19.23 | goozbach | I figured out what was causing vim to segfault |
| 18:19.27 | goozbach | the vim-command-t.x86_64 package |
| 18:19.30 | youtah | and it keeps banging on the *tin* exhaust pipe from my furnace |
| 18:19.40 | goozbach | that's the last time I do "yum -y install vim-*' |
| 18:19.46 | youtah | it echos through the whole freaking house and sounds like a machine gun in my furnace room. |
| 18:19.59 | youtah | and he starts at right around 5:30~6:00am |
| 18:20.06 | ezakimak | wakey! wakey! |
| 18:20.15 | youtah | yeah, no kidding |
| 18:20.19 | Q_CONTINUUM | youtah: I know Scheel's has a small section upstairs, border between firearms and sports equip, sports equip side of the huge mountain display |
| 18:20.37 | ezakimak | Jayce, what kind of admin work? and where in Ut? |
| 18:20.48 | youtah | Excellent, good to know Q_CONTINUUM |
| 18:21.03 | Q_CONTINUUM | Don't know who else would have stuff. |
| 18:21.04 | ezakimak | is Scheel's that new store just north of draper? |
| 18:21.06 | Q_CONTINUUM | Cabella's does |
| 18:21.09 | Q_CONTINUUM | Yes |
| 18:21.15 | ezakimak | i've seen the building had no idea what they sell |
| 18:21.27 | youtah | supposedly it's even cooler than Cabelas |
| 18:21.30 | Q_CONTINUUM | They're like Cabela's but more 'outdoor activities' in general |
| 18:21.37 | youtah | errr, two lls |
| 18:21.44 | Q_CONTINUUM | I can never remember |
| 18:21.44 | youtah | is it one or two l |
| 18:21.46 | youtah | s |
| 18:21.49 | Yorokobi | Cabela's not Cabella's |
| 18:21.55 | youtah | ah, okay |
| 18:22.10 | ezakimak | i dunno, cabella is a great name for a hunting store |
| 18:22.20 | ezakimak | sounds like spanish for head |
| 18:22.26 | Q_CONTINUUM | I would suggest checking out Scheel's |
| 18:22.31 | Yorokobi | cabesa's |
| 18:22.33 | Q_CONTINUUM | Although Saturday is probably the worst day to do it. |
| 18:22.44 | ezakimak | or horse |
| 18:22.48 | Q_CONTINUUM | They have a 14?-car ferris wheel in the middle. |
| 18:22.55 | ezakimak | *inside*? |
| 18:22.59 | Q_CONTINUUM | It is set up as a 'destination' - food and everything. |
| 18:23.00 | Q_CONTINUUM | Yes. |
| 18:23.11 | Q_CONTINUUM | 220k square feet, 2 (TALL) stories |
| 18:23.18 | ezakimak | ok. so now utah has *two* giant sports stores w/in 10 miles, and still no Fry's anywhere! |
| 18:23.22 | Q_CONTINUUM | ^ |
| 18:23.25 | Q_CONTINUUM | WTF? |
| 18:23.32 | Q_CONTINUUM | demands Fry's and/or Microcenter |
| 18:23.49 | ezakimak | if I had $20mln i'd open a Fry's/like store asap |
| 18:24.11 | ezakimak | do it next door to ikea and you'd have a gold mine. women go one way, guys go the other. |
| 18:24.49 | Q_CONTINUUM | Hey, I hit up Ikea from time to time. |
| 18:24.56 | Q_CONTINUUM | Need desks and furniture every once in awhile |
| 18:25.01 | Q_CONTINUUM | Gotta put the tech somewhere :-P |
| 18:25.32 | ezakimak | true, but doesn't Fry's also have that also? |
| 18:25.46 | ezakimak | er s/also// |
| 18:25.49 | jima | and my wife would be all over a local fry's/microcenter equivalent. |
| 18:25.56 | Yorokobi | Fry's is hit-or-miss. I certainly wouldn't want to work there. |
| 18:25.59 | ezakimak | ok, well some wives wouldn't |
| 18:26.16 | ezakimak | i just like the format--one of *everything* out on display to play with |
| 18:26.17 | jima | she does love her ikea stuff, however. |
| 18:26.44 | ezakimak | i think that format makes a huge difference (plus having a very wide selection) |
| 18:26.45 | jima | having a fry's-esque store next to ikea would be great for her though ;-) |
| 18:27.05 | ezakimak | i mean "best buy" is such a lie. |
| 18:27.14 | ezakimak | limited selection and terrible prices |
| 18:27.21 | jima | yes. |
| 18:27.26 | ezakimak | about the only thing they are decent at is cell phone plans |
| 18:27.49 | jima | enh, and most best buys suck to buy phones from |
| 18:27.50 | ezakimak | they can do pass-thru pricing and add their warranty on top which can be handy |
| 18:28.05 | ezakimak | i have a few friends that have gone through best buy and it's saved their bacons a few times |
| 18:28.07 | jima | there were best buy mobile stores back in minnesota...they had live demo models. |
| 18:28.38 | jima | whereas most best buy locations don't seem to carry live models (last i looked), just the dummies |
| 18:29.00 | ezakimak | i'm glad circuit city died. they were even worse. super high prices |
| 18:29.34 | ezakimak | of course, brick and mortar retail is in jeopardy because of the decreasing margins |
| 18:29.40 | ezakimak | amazon is really kicking ass these days |
| 18:29.56 | ezakimak | volume is key |
| 18:31.11 | youtah | I wish we had a Frys |
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| 18:32.07 | youtah | So, now that ebc computers is gone... are there any other computer hardware based supply stores left in Utah? |
| 18:32.36 | youtah | (although I hated buying from them anyway) |
| 18:32.50 | ezakimak | shudders at ebc |
| 18:33.06 | youtah | but in a pinch.... |
| 18:33.07 | ezakimak | they were evil |
| 18:33.08 | youtah | http://www.bbb.org/utah/business-reviews/computer-supplies-parts-and-service-companies/ebc-computers-in-sandy-ut-2004287 |
| 18:33.16 | ezakimak | they sold used, faulty parts as new |
| 18:33.21 | fungus | youtah, Universal Systems in SLC |
| 18:33.23 | ezakimak | they had their own shrinkwrap machine |
| 18:33.44 | ezakimak | i'm thinking of the one in orem |
| 18:33.54 | youtah | fungus, but USI doesn't have a store front though, do they> |
| 18:33.55 | youtah | ? |
| 18:34.03 | fungus | yes they do |
| 18:34.08 | youtah | ah, I had no idea |
| 18:34.21 | fungus | about 4 blocks from my house |
| 18:35.04 | youtah | lol http://i.imgur.com/yqpYx.jpg |
| 18:35.12 | ezakimak | errstr, i think you could make a moosefs master server have a ha failover using carp + dbd + heartbeat |
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| 18:39.45 | Jayce | Moose, carp, dbd (dbi)... man, everything is perl now :-p |
| 18:39.57 | Q_CONTINUUM | Universal and one other one I've checked out |
| 18:40.05 | Q_CONTINUUM | both not far from each other |
| 18:40.13 | ezakimak | same pattern as for NFS failover |
| 18:40.27 | ezakimak | or vrrp |
| 18:51.10 | jima | twitches |
| 18:51.26 | ezakimak | shoots jima again |
| 18:51.43 | jima | I LOVE EMAILING CXOS AT 9PM |
| 18:52.07 | ezakimak | i bet they love emailing you at 9pm also |
| 18:52.25 | jima | "here, let me add a user for you in this AD realm i don't manage." ;-) |
| 18:53.01 | jima | that was the cio, for the ceo i only needed to do a password reset. |
| 18:53.16 | ezakimak | make sure to cc/bcc the real manager also |
| 18:53.22 | jima | oops. |
| 18:53.36 | jima | i'm actually not 100% sure who should have done that. |
| 18:53.46 | ezakimak | then email up the chain |
| 18:54.35 | ezakimak | better to tell them than let them simply discover it and possibly feel infringed |
| 18:54.42 | jima | actually, i think i'll do some more damage :-D |
| 18:54.52 | ezakimak | messy config? |
| 18:55.20 | jima | nope, RDPing into their infrastructure and looking for some stuff i'm arguably not supposed to have |
| 18:55.50 | jima | sweet, the cio seems appreciative |
| 18:56.08 | Yorokobi | group policy exemptions, for example? :) |
| 18:56.11 | ezakimak | well that's good. you've got some better visibility now |
| 18:57.24 | jima | nah...i share management of the enterprise AD certificate services...the other side of the world asked me to do something with a certificate i don't have. |
| 19:10.31 | jima | and the ceo just thanked me. i think i'm golden. |
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| 19:11.17 | jima | fortunately these are just CXOs for a subsidiary, not the parent company. |
| 19:12.50 | ezakimak | still, they are decision makers/influencers and you're now on the radar in a good light |
| 19:13.26 | ezakimak | if you become their "go to" guy, that can be very good |
| 19:14.53 | jima | oh yeah. execs friggin' love me. except the financial ones. ;-) |
| 19:15.17 | ezakimak | why's that? |
| 19:15.25 | ezakimak | always wanting more budget? |
| 19:16.46 | jima | no, they just feel underserved by my team. |
| 19:17.07 | ezakimak | why, what large needs do they have that aren't met? just desktop support? |
| 19:17.22 | jima | yeah. and telecom. |
| 19:17.29 | ezakimak | what, don't the phones work? |
| 19:18.01 | ezakimak | or do they forget their passwords a lot? |
| 19:18.20 | jima | any dropped calls lead to finger-pointing, and they have this...lovely...fax server implementation. |
| 19:18.43 | jima | oh no, they don't forget their passwords, since they all have expiration disabled. *eye roll* |
| 19:18.52 | ezakimak | ROFL |
| 19:19.15 | jima | i wonder what our security analysts would say about that... :-D |
| 19:19.39 | jima | biab, lunch |
| 19:19.47 | ezakimak | it's so ironic. they relentlessly count to the last penny, but won't take the measures needed to *secure* those pennies |
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| 19:27.04 | youtah | Love it http://www.snopes.com/photos/advertisements/pingpong.asp |
| 19:27.55 | youtah | absolutely brilliant |
| 19:29.19 | goozbach | it's like that ad with the ball-girl running up the wall to shag a foul ball |
| 19:30.33 | goozbach | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SqJz0NgnnE |
| 19:32.00 | Yorokobi | You and I have very different definitions of "shag" |
| 19:33.42 | joshh | it's a kind of carpet right? |
| 19:34.29 | goozbach | eeek |
| 19:34.34 | goozbach | s/shag/snag/ |
| 19:35.08 | goozbach | no, I was right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shagging_(baseball) |
| 19:35.42 | goozbach | but I could see your concern from the list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shag |
| 19:50.35 | ezakimak | there is a brittish song called "shagging in the street" |
| 19:50.41 | ezakimak | er, sorry, a us song |
| 19:50.47 | ezakimak | the brittain thought it amusing |
| 19:50.51 | manithree | shagadelic |
| 19:51.03 | ezakimak | cause "the shag" used to be a us dance move |
| 19:51.17 | ezakimak | and we all know what it means in the uk |
| 19:54.30 | youtah | Any of you ever seen the show "7th Heaven?" |
| 19:54.44 | youtah | Here's an inception parody https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKH0XUjOq0o |
| 19:54.44 | ezakimak | vaguely recall it's existence, never saw it |
| 19:55.01 | ezkl | waves at youtah |
| 19:56.38 | manithree | the fedora project comes up with the best names: Beefy Miraccle, Sphreical Cow, fedup |
| 19:56.47 | youtah | lol |
| 19:58.27 | ezakimak | i thought fedup was the new name after ups aquires fedex |
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| 20:03.07 | manithree | s/Sphreical/Spherical |
| 20:04.55 | Q_CONTINUUM | lol |
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| 20:41.26 | Tene | manithree: the best part about fedora's naming scheme is that people use release numbers instead of names. |
| 20:41.53 | Tene | I hate it when people use the animal name to refer to an ubuntu release instead of its release number |
| 20:42.53 | findlay | especially when you have to go to wikipedia to find the correlation |
| 20:45.29 | Tene | Exactly. |
| 20:45.47 | Tene | Is 12.04 so much harder to use than "natty narwhal"? |
| 20:46.00 | Tene | Or, wait, I guess that's precise. |
| 20:46.08 | Tene | See? Exactly. |
| 20:47.36 | manithree | At least Ubuntu's are usually alphabetic, so with the warty and hoary exceptions, you know natty is older than oneiric ocelot. |
| 20:48.03 | Tene | You also know that with the release numbers. |
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| 20:57.41 | eightyeight | fwiw, in the early days of ubuntu, they did use the release version number. it's the community that used the codenames, "because it's easy to google" |
| 20:58.46 | eightyeight | even now, you can blame the community for popularizing the names, not canonical |
| 20:59.13 | eightyeight | ubuntu.com refers to it as "Ubuntu 12.04 LTS" and "Ubuntu 12.10" |
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| 21:11.37 | shalkie | Which is good they do. I doubt that there was much difference between 12.04 and 12.04.1, but the release name didn't change. Both are Precise Pangolin. |
| 21:11.53 | shalkie | And yes, obviously there were some changes. |
| 21:12.29 | Tene | eightyeight: Yes, many of my complaints with ubuntu are about the community. |
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| 21:14.15 | eightyeight | many of my complaints are against canonical, actually |
| 21:15.36 | ezakimak | i've got no complaints, since don't use ubuntu ;) |
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| 21:17.44 | Tene | eightyeight: Yes, I also have many complaints with canonical. |
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| 21:22.45 | joshh | everything about ubuntu sucks except the predictable lts cycle |
| 21:23.06 | eightyeight | i don't think that |
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| 21:23.37 | eightyeight | unity works great on netbooks, and it's debian based, which gives it a solid foundation |
| 21:25.19 | eightyeight | ubuntu one is pretty cool. juju is good. and the andriod/ubuntu integration looks awesome |
| 21:26.38 | joshh | well the debian part is fine of course |
| 21:26.54 | joshh | but the LTS cycle is the only reason to use it over debian |
| 21:26.59 | joshh | netbooks are worthless :) |
| 21:27.13 | eightyeight | i would much rather use debian stable over ubuntu lts |
| 21:27.17 | joshh | ya |
| 21:27.28 | eightyeight | i don't think canonical has their act together on fixing bugs |
| 21:27.28 | joshh | for a personal server |
| 21:27.34 | eightyeight | and for production |
| 21:27.37 | joshh | but for work the LTS cycle is nice |
| 21:27.46 | joshh | that said, i'd be perfectly happy with debian at work too |
| 21:28.29 | Tene | As far as I've seen, which admittedly is anythign but comprehensive, canonical is far more focused on desktop use than production server. |
| 21:28.41 | eightyeight | this is my personal feelings on ubuntu 'servers': http://pthree.org/2009/02/19/server-migration-from-ubuntu-804-to-debian-50/ |
| 21:29.05 | eightyeight | Tene: indeed. they're chasing apple, from what i can tell |
| 21:29.10 | joshh | Tene: right, and their desktop ideas in the past couple years are all awful |
| 21:29.23 | eightyeight | i'd much rather use unity over gnome shell though |
| 21:29.26 | joshh | in the gnome2 days, it made sense to use ubuntu instead of debian |
| 21:29.48 | joshh | these days i wouldn't use ubuntu on a desktop |
| 21:29.56 | eightyeight | yeah. i don't |
| 21:30.03 | eightyeight | debian unstable + awesome wm |
| 21:30.24 | joshh | i'd even just use stable |
| 21:30.40 | Tene | eightyeight: what ubuntu "ideals" do you advocate, specifically? |
| 21:30.54 | joshh | i used to care about upgrading my unstable desktop every day when i was 20, but that was then |
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| 21:31.01 | eightyeight | the philosophy of collaboration and community service |
| 21:31.40 | eightyeight | joshh: you haven't heard of auto-apt, eh? :) |
| 21:32.17 | joshh | eightyeight: what i mean is i don't care about having "old" versions of stuff on my desktop anymore |
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| 21:32.42 | eightyeight | :) |
| 21:32.43 | joshh | of course, that was mostly an issue in the woody and sarge era |
| 21:33.03 | eightyeight | s/auto-apt/cron-apt/ |
| 21:33.14 | joshh | i don't think my desktop has been unstable since woody was stable |
| 21:33.14 | eightyeight | been a while since i've installed it. i just let it run. :) |
| 21:33.30 | eightyeight | meh. anyway |
| 21:34.23 | joshh | basically ubuntu's advantages back in the day were newish software in a "stable" version, a gnome2 that didn't require much messing around, and not needing to mess with your nvidia drivers |
| 21:34.50 | Tene | I've been much happier with nouveau drivers over nvidia for at least the last year. |
| 21:34.52 | joshh | these days none of that matters |
| 21:34.58 | joshh | so ubuntu is pointless |
| 21:35.06 | eightyeight | i've always looked for intel video hardware |
| 21:35.21 | eightyeight | i've not had many of teh issues many of the collegues have had with nvidia/ati |
| 21:35.51 | Tene | I've heard a lot of good things about intel video for the past three or four years. |
| 21:35.52 | eightyeight | if i had a nickle for every day that was spent at guru labs working, while my coworkers fixed their X... |
| 21:35.54 | joshh | ive never had any issues with nvidia, other than manually reinstalling after i'd make a new kernel, but nobody makes their own kernels anymore either |
| 21:36.35 | Tene | joshh: ever try using hotplug or any kind of randr? |
| 21:36.40 | joshh | i did have ATI hassles once, but i learned not to buy those |
| 21:37.03 | Tene | nvidia doesn't support any of the normal APIs; you have to use their own special tools to do anything. |
| 21:38.01 | joshh | ok, so i did have nvidia gripes with my 2 x screen/2 card/3 monitor setup at my last job |
| 21:38.09 | joshh | but meh |
| 21:38.16 | eightyeight | heh |
| 21:38.45 | eightyeight | not a pain if you have xinerama enabled. |
| 21:38.46 | joshh | i meant as far as driver installation, which is the part ubuntu handled fo ryou |
| 21:39.53 | joshh | in the last few years though, debian has become more "usable", unity became a thing, gnome 3 came out and ruined gnome, etc |
| 21:40.15 | joshh | so there's no reason to use a debian derivative instead of debian |
| 21:41.37 | eightyeight | i've been impressed with arch lately. goes to show that vanilla can just work |
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| 21:43.04 | Tene | I've been pretty happy with fedora for the past six years or so. |
| 21:43.47 | joshh | fedora is fine |
| 21:44.36 | joshh | redhat style vs debian style is the main choice when it comes to linux, and almost everything else sucks unless it's for a special purpose or a viable alternative like arch |
| 21:44.57 | joshh | but nobody would use arch for producion of course |
| 21:45.04 | eightyeight | heh |
| 21:45.08 | eightyeight | tell that to my last boss. :) |
| 21:45.29 | eightyeight | the whole compnay infrastructure was built on arch. it was nuts. |
| 21:45.35 | Tene | I've got a friend supporting gentoo in production; he comes to me with the weirdest problems sometimes. |
| 21:45.51 | joshh | heh |
| 21:46.25 | joshh | i love the "hey, gentoo works just fine for servers, it's ran my blog for 4 months" types |
| 21:46.50 | eightyeight | heh |
| 21:47.12 | joshh | when i would still do consulting side gigs, nothing made my nights worse than some super customized long abandoned gentoo box |
| 21:47.13 | Tene | No, this is a pretty big, pretty successful company; they just made some unfortunate decisions early on, and haven't wanted to invest in fixing them. |
| 21:47.45 | eightyeight | did you see they are forking udev? |
| 21:48.03 | eightyeight | http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.project/2262 |
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| 21:49.29 | joshh | udev does suck, and i do like that linus quote |
| 21:49.35 | joshh | but i can't see gentoo fixing it |
| 21:50.54 | joshh | does anyone still do separate /usr partitions? |
| 21:51.21 | eightyeight | i don't generally do partitions at all, unless i know it's needed |
| 21:51.34 | fugue88 | joshh: Yes. |
| 21:51.38 | joshh | why? |
| 21:52.01 | eightyeight | me why, or fugue88 why? |
| 21:52.05 | joshh | fugue |
| 21:52.14 | ezakimak | i've used gentoo in production many times. wouldn't use anything else. |
| 21:52.14 | fugue88 | Originally, it was because I had played a lot with NFS NIS & friends, and had a shared /usr, shared /home, etc at one place, which was an awesome experience. |
| 21:52.23 | fugue88 | Currently, I like to keep /usr mounted ro. |
| 21:52.27 | fugue88 | Not a big deal, I know. |
| 21:52.35 | joshh | wait, 2 guys here have the number 88 for their nick |
| 21:52.41 | joshh | hmm |
| 21:53.15 | fugue88 | Similar reasons for the 88, but we're not related other than that. |
| 21:53.45 | eightyeight | "88 miles per hour!" |
| 21:53.58 | fugue88 | 's current hardware is too diversified for a network /usr |
| 21:54.13 | eightyeight | notes that this channel flirts with having 88 users in the room |
| 21:54.19 | ezakimak | isn't use nfs /usr a hold over from when disk was not cheap? |
| 21:54.36 | joshh | i do separate /boot and /home for desktops, but that's it |
| 21:54.36 | fugue88 | It can make updates really nice. |
| 21:54.43 | fugue88 | Depending. |
| 21:54.47 | ezakimak | i just do / /boot and /home |
| 21:54.59 | joshh | ya |
| 21:54.59 | fugue88 | Easier on Gentoo, I imagine, than with other package managers. |
| 21:55.08 | eightyeight | i just do / |
| 21:55.28 | ezakimak | i keep /home on separate media--raid1 |
| 21:55.40 | ezakimak | my / is on a raid0 since it's fully replaceable |
| 21:56.12 | ezakimak | this is on my desktop though. on a server i always do raid1 or raid10 |
| 21:56.14 | eightyeight | i was just thinking about that this morning, actually |
| 21:56.42 | eightyeight | i have a 2-node glusterfs setup. i could gluster mount /home over the network, and leave / on my raid0, as it's currently setup |
| 21:56.58 | ezakimak | i backup my /etc, my /boot is also on raid1 |
| 21:58.31 | ezakimak | my raid0 is actually an ocz revodrive (pcie), which exposes 4 block devices |
| 21:58.40 | eightyeight | heh. nice |
| 21:58.48 | eightyeight | 120GB? |
| 21:58.53 | ezakimak | 240GB total |
| 21:59.02 | ezakimak | my next build i'm gonna do two of them and use raid10 driver |
| 21:59.17 | eightyeight | i have the 120 GB drive. one in each glusterfs box. used as a L2ARC for my zpool |
| 21:59.35 | eightyeight | i'm debating partitioning it, giving 5GB or so to the ZIL |
| 21:59.36 | ezakimak | the revodrive3 max ips is over 1.5GB/s reads and writes |
| 21:59.45 | ezakimak | so w/raid10 i should get close to 3GB/s on it |
| 21:59.59 | eightyeight | with wear leveling, the partition _should_ "move" across the drive, but i haven't found any docs on it |
| 22:00.13 | ezakimak | my current one is the revedrive x2, i get close to 700MB/s io |
| 22:00.28 | ezakimak | i'm not sure that's how it works these days |
| 22:00.34 | eightyeight | i've got some x2 drives for sale, if anyone wants any |
| 22:00.46 | ezakimak | i think it internally cycles the blocks around ring-buffer style |
| 22:00.51 | eightyeight | 360GB versions |
| 22:01.15 | ezakimak | how much you asking? |
| 22:01.31 | ezakimak | i don't think i have a spare slot atm though. |
| 22:01.43 | eightyeight | ebay prices |
| 22:01.52 | eightyeight | (although i don't have them on ebay. yet.) |
| 22:02.24 | ezakimak | only one completed listing atm |
| 22:02.33 | ezakimak | went for $325 |
| 22:02.39 | ezakimak | a refurb |
| 22:02.48 | eightyeight | these are factory sealed |
| 22:03.30 | eightyeight | i think new, they go for ~$1200 |
| 22:03.34 | ezakimak | you should get a decent price for them |
| 22:03.40 | ezakimak | revo3s? |
| 22:03.57 | eightyeight | yeah |
| 22:04.01 | ezakimak | ah |
| 22:04.03 | ezakimak | mine's a revo2 |
| 22:04.12 | eightyeight | i'll double-check when i get home |
| 22:04.19 | eightyeight | i think they are revo3 x2 |
| 22:04.21 | ezakimak | i think i paid ~$700, well over a year ago |
| 22:04.33 | eightyeight | pci-express x4 |
| 22:04.34 | ezakimak | mine's the original revo2 x2 |
| 22:04.38 | ezakimak | yes, pcie x4 |
| 22:04.43 | eightyeight | yeah. i'll check |
| 22:04.47 | eightyeight | i'm not sure now. heh |
| 22:04.59 | ezakimak | just look on newegg |
| 22:05.12 | ezakimak | if they're new, sealed, you should get new price |
| 22:05.23 | ezakimak | or close to it |
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| 22:06.02 | eightyeight | yeah. i'm willing to take a cut in the price to get rid of them |
| 22:06.43 | ezakimak | lemme know when you find out what exact model they are |
| 22:06.49 | eightyeight | will do |
| 22:07.36 | ezakimak | i'm waiting for haswell to do my next build. wish intel would hurry up. |
| 22:07.52 | ezakimak | although i'm kinda bummed they're only doing two memory controllers |
| 22:16.01 | jima | i don't envy these network guys being at the office after midnight |
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| 22:47.38 | Q_CONTINUUM | Two reasons for me to build a new desktop (specifically, new mobo/CPU/RAM) - still on DDR2, and 2.8GHz quad may start to impede (a few) games that want MOAR POWAR |
| 22:47.55 | Q_CONTINUUM | Capped out reasonably at 8GB of RAM (4x2GB) |
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