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| 00:31.29 | harleypig | Does anyone know of a reliable way to test if I'm running under kvm or vmware? |
| 00:32.25 | eightyeight | you could query for drivers of hardware, and see what shows up |
| 00:32.45 | harleypig | you lspci? |
| 00:32.51 | harleypig | err ... you mean lspci? |
| 00:33.14 | eightyeight | yeah. lspci, lsusb, dmidecode, stuff like that |
| 00:34.09 | eightyeight | in the case of my kvm vms, "Bochs" is the processor and the bios |
| 00:34.13 | eightyeight | vendor |
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| 00:37.08 | shalkie | I believe there is a cpu flag that is present in /proc/cpuinfo too... |
| 00:37.44 | harleypig | looks like there is a hypervisor entry ... |
| 00:37.52 | harleypig | but that doesn't tell me if it's kvm or vmware |
| 00:40.57 | eightyeight | i don't know of a reliable way to tell a difference between the two from the vm |
| 00:41.09 | eightyeight | then again, i've never needed to learn about it before |
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| 00:43.12 | harleypig | We've got two types of guests, kvm and vmware and I'm trying to write a script that will return some information, but how we get the information differs slightly depending on the what the guest is running on. |
| 00:44.55 | harleypig | feh ... I'll fake it ... I'll fix it if/when it breaks |
| 00:44.58 | fugue88 | If you control the guests, could you add a file somewhere during creation to indicate which? |
| 00:45.04 | fugue88 | /etc/guest-type |
| 00:45.06 | fugue88 | for example. |
| 00:45.22 | harleypig | I thought of that, but I only control a subset of the guests. |
| 00:45.38 | fugue88 | Oh. :( |
| 00:46.42 | harleypig | :] Currently, testing shows what I have written works under both setups, but its clunky. I'm tired of messing with it ... if it ever breaks I may get lucky and someone else will have to puzzle it out. |
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| 17:02.13 | goozbach | http://soundcloud.com/jhlodin/oppa-spacejam-style |
| 17:02.20 | goozbach | Jayce^: you'll appreciate that |
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| 17:35.49 | jalbretsen | Thanks for the phone call, but sorry Xi3, I doubt you'll get any business selling machines that run Windows in an all Apple company. |
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| 17:49.09 | tristanbob|2 | jalbretsen: but they "look" like Mac products! |
| 18:15.20 | goozbach | aholycrap |
| 18:15.28 | goozbach | libvirt can control virtualbox on a mac |
| 18:15.34 | goozbach | brew install libvirt |
| 18:15.38 | goozbach | ands poof! |
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| 18:42.07 | UtahDave | anyone from UVLUG here? |
| 18:45.31 | UtahDave | trying to figure out when and where uvlug meets |
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| 19:15.32 | harleypig | I need to find the process limit on a linux box. Is this a valid way to find it? 'grep "Max processes" /proc/1/limits' |
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| 20:37.44 | rsimpkins | Where is the sign-up sheet for paying 14% in taxes? |
| 20:47.59 | stderr- | at the big boy's table. $20,000 a plate. |
| 20:48.31 | rsimpkins | That's cool, as long as they let bus boys sign it too. :) |
| 20:48.39 | stderr- | yea right |
| 20:48.47 | *** part/#utah dfinn1 (~Adium@66.97.133.7) |
| 20:49.27 | manithree | rsimpkins: Do you really pay much more than 14% in taxes? |
| 20:49.36 | manithree | federal income taxes |
| 20:49.58 | Migs | I enjoy paying taxes, as long as I know they're going to good use |
| 20:50.07 | Migs | generally, they are |
| 20:52.42 | Tene | harleypig: that's a weird way of doing it; depending on what you really care about, you probably want /proc/sys/kernel/pid_max |
| 20:53.03 | Tene | the number you get from /proc/1/limits means something, but probably not precisely what you want. |
| 20:54.10 | rsimpkins | manithree: Yeah. I do. Even with all the blasted deductions and everything. If they didn't have deductions, I'd quit and live off welfare. ;-) |
| 21:53.28 | harleypig | Tene: thanks, I'll take a look. |
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| 22:18.59 | Gate | Migs: you really believe that your taxes are generally well used? I must admit I believed such optimism to be extinct. |
| 22:25.37 | b4dave | well saidd |
| 22:27.49 | Gate | I say that because pretty much everybody I know finds at least one major factor of our government offensive, be it abortion, entitlements, unlawful military action, bailouts or plain waste. |
| 22:27.59 | manithree | Gate: That's the difference between left and right: left thinks government is efficient and incorruptible |
| 22:28.44 | Gate | manithree: I disagree, I've found it to be that they think the Government is better than the individual, but I don't know any who would call it perfect. |
| 22:30.56 | Gate | Maybe I just don't know any truely hardcore statists who were willing to argue it to my face |
| 22:31.41 | manithree | I'm not sure incorruptible implies perfect |
| 22:32.43 | zzzirk | I figured the left consider government corruption to be the right |
| 22:33.04 | zzzirk | and vice versa for that matter |
| 22:34.36 | Gate | That does seem to be the case |
| 22:34.44 | manithree | zzzirk: If you consider (L|l)ibertarians right (wing), I don't think it's true |
| 22:35.15 | zzzirk | I consider them to be more center than right |
| 22:35.19 | Gate | manithree: I'm libertarian, and I don't consider libertarians right wing |
| 22:35.33 | zzzirk | I would agree |
| 22:35.34 | manithree | So am I, and I do |
| 22:35.54 | manithree | I don't consider Republicans very right wing |
| 22:36.47 | Gate | manithree: I suppose it comes to my vague definition of right wing being tagged with modern conservatism |
| 22:37.43 | manithree | I consider less gov't the more you move right |
| 22:39.15 | Gate | by that definition I would agree with you. But the term has been rolled up with social conservatives who want to use the government as a bludgeon to enforce their image of good behavior |
| 22:39.18 | zzzirk | well in THAT case yo'd be correct |
| 22:39.39 | jsmith | is starting his own political party... We're the "Radical Moderates" |
| 22:39.58 | manithree | Gate: I don't let the Westboro baptists define conservatism |
| 22:40.05 | Gate | jsmith: goldilocks for president? |
| 22:40.30 | jsmith | Gate: "We don't take crap from either of the extremist parties" |
| 22:40.53 | jsmith | Gate: "That which unites us is more important than that which divides us" |
| 22:41.01 | jsmith | Gate: "My porridge is just right" |
| 22:41.23 | manithree | jsmith: You don't take crap from Libertarians or Socialists? |
| 22:41.40 | jsmith | manithree: Those too :-p |
| 22:42.14 | manithree | The only thing extreme about republicrats is their philosophical flexibility |
| 22:42.25 | Gate | (warning, some strong language) http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6705016/voting-booth-talks-back |
| 22:45.15 | manithree | Gate: Awesome! |
| 22:46.24 | Gate | By the way, if you define right wing as being less government, then you can't get more right wing than anarchists... |
| 22:46.36 | manithree | Gate: agreed |
| 22:46.55 | manithree | I'm not that far right. |
| 22:46.58 | manithree | yet |
| 22:47.39 | manithree | That video reminds me of how much I hated the chika that taught the "Citizenship in the Nation" merit badge class my son went to. |
| 22:47.40 | Gate | I disagree vehemently with anarchists, I see their logic I just don't buy it. |
| 22:48.18 | manithree | She said "voting is easy, it only takes a few minutes" among other things that made me want to punch her |
| 22:49.02 | Gate | The argument that we would live in a better world without police to investigate assaults and murders doesn't mesh well with my available evidence. |
| 22:49.52 | manithree | She also said the constitution enumerates the right to health care |
| 22:50.03 | Gate | manithree: I approached voting that way in my more ignorant youth, and have desperately regretted it more and more as I become better informed. |
| 22:50.20 | manithree | I'm not going to argue in favor of anarchism. I strongly disagree with those who put Nazism on the far right, tho |
| 22:50.45 | manithree | If voting (including deciding who to vote for) is easy, you're doing it wrong. |
| 22:50.49 | Gate | By your definition (and by mine as well) nazism is state control, therefore on the left |
| 22:50.59 | Gate | manithree: agreed |
| 22:52.00 | manithree | Hitler and Mussolini were the darlings of the U.S. socialists and unions for a while. Dunno how the "moved" so far right after all those murders the left wanted to distance themselves from. |
| 22:52.15 | manithree | theY "moved" |
| 22:52.38 | Gate | yeah, that's a little detail that those groups want to be buried in history |
| 22:53.05 | manithree | I learned in high school government class that Hitler was only a little to the right of Republicans |
| 22:54.30 | Gate | They did show great promise in state-centered economic and political structures pulling their governments out of a depression. The fact that it was based on murder and theft is just inconvenient |
| 22:55.24 | romanovic | manithree: i'm curious how your govt class measures "a little" |
| 22:56.17 | rsimpkins | Gate: Depending on who you are, you might argue all government is based on murder and theft... depending on perspective. |
| 22:56.22 | romanovic | proposes measuring by hitler-units on the political spectrum |
| 22:56.44 | rsimpkins | The United States didn't build itself out of warm-fuzzies and group hugs. |
| 22:56.51 | romanovic | It would make reduccio ad hitlerum madness quantifiable! |
| 22:57.41 | Gate | rsimpkins: I actually do hold the opinion that Government being based on taxes is by its nature using force to take money: theft |
| 22:58.11 | Gate | rsimpkins: I do not extend that argument to murder, since murder is not strictly neccecary to maintain a government |
| 22:58.11 | rsimpkins | Gate: Yes, well, if taxes were volutntary that would certainly solve a lot of problems. :) |
| 22:59.22 | Gate | rsimpkins: I don't really think they should be. Like I said I believe that taxes are theft, but that a certain amount of taxes are justifiable and neccecary: the ones which are used to protect us from agression (police, military, etc). |
| 23:00.15 | Gate | I would argue that those benefits are shared and their burden should be shared equally by all (as in a perfectly flat tax, one percentage to rule them all) |
| 23:02.42 | Gate | rsimpkins: hitler-units measurment symbol MUST therefore be a tiny mustache |
| 23:03.12 | manithree | I say repeal the 18th(?) amendment that allowed fedzilla to even collect an income tax |
| 23:03.19 | rsimpkins | Gate: HTMs = Hitler Tiny Mustaches ? |
| 23:03.21 | Gate | and instead of R/D next to a senator/congressman's name you get 1.2 &mustache; |
| 23:03.53 | rsimpkins | manithree: It is too late to unravel it. We can't even agree on simple maters, let alone big ones. |
| 23:04.04 | Gate | manithree: I regard that as a step towards utopia! |
| 23:04.06 | manithree | rsimpkins: then all is lost |
| 23:04.08 | rsimpkins | Until we learn to, you know, work together... we are stuck. |
| 23:04.41 | Gate | rsimpkins: problematically, the only time our political class finds a way to work together they churn out abominations like the Patriot Act |
| 23:04.54 | rsimpkins | Working together is too much like socialism for some people. Oddly enough, they also like team sports. *shrug* |
| 23:04.55 | manithree | Or more taxes and spending |
| 23:05.27 | Gate | They do manage to agree to their own payraises pretty regularly |
| 23:05.46 | manithree | Unless you believe the lies of the left, the right has no problem with working together. It's the force cooperation at gunpoint that some of us have a problem with |
| 23:05.59 | manithree | s/force/forced/ |
| 23:06.08 | Gate | manithree: agreed completely. |
| 23:06.25 | rsimpkins | We, the people, must work together. The politicians are like bad employees. We are the boss. Who's fault is it when the bad employee doesn't get fired? The bosses fault. |
| 23:06.26 | Gate | alhtought I still hesitate to define myself as on the right. |
| 23:06.41 | manithree | Conservatives and republicans donate more to charity in general than liberals/democrats |
| 23:07.01 | Gate | rsimpkins: agreed again. But we keep electing the same demagogues and charlatans. |
| 23:07.11 | rsimpkins | Gate: Soooo. Our fault. Right? |
| 23:07.18 | manithree | That's because too many people think voting is easy |
| 23:07.22 | rsimpkins | Gate: Until we learn to fix that problem, then we get what we asked for. |
| 23:07.22 | Gate | rsimpkins: yep, like I said, agreed. |
| 23:07.28 | manithree | rsimpkins: yep |
| 23:07.46 | rsimpkins | I'm not sure we are capable of learning it any more. |
| 23:07.53 | rsimpkins | And that is slightly depressing. |
| 23:08.05 | Gate | rsimpkins: unfortunately fixing that problem requries an educated electorate and our populace in general seems to very much despise real education. |
| 23:08.15 | manithree | Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. |
| 23:08.15 | manithree | H. L. Mencken |
| 23:09.01 | Gate | I wish to God we would stop calling ourselves a democracy and follow our own laws. Guaranteed rights no matter how many people vote to take them away. |
| 23:09.08 | rsimpkins | Gate: What is 'real education' any way? One man's real education is another mans religious indoctrination, or whatever. |
| 23:09.45 | manithree | Yeah, Democracies are scary, but I like the quote anyway |
| 23:10.21 | manithree | I wish we would not only call ourselves a constitutional republic, but actually start being one again |
| 23:10.41 | rsimpkins | The thing I find difficult about America is that we can't even generate a majority opinion of what reality is. |
| 23:10.44 | Gate | rsimpkins: an intentionally vauge statement. What I mean by it is the being trained in critical analysis and being well enough informed to choose your point of view for yourself. |
| 23:11.21 | rsimpkins | And when I talk to my neighbors about this, they get really depressed and want to talk about American Idol instead. |
| 23:11.48 | rsimpkins | Or they send me links to consperacy videos about how stickers on the back of road signs are military indicators for a government take over. |
| 23:11.53 | Gate | rsimpkins: I am reminded of a quote by (I think) Tomas Aquinas. "if the world is flat, can a command of the king cause it to be round? If it is round, can an act of parliament cause it to become flat?" |
| 23:12.11 | rsimpkins | Gate: In Texas. yes. |
| 23:12.24 | Gate | rsimpkins: and Georgia |
| 23:12.36 | rsimpkins | Coming to a state near you. |
| 23:13.27 | *** part/#utah manithree (~blr@li4-76.members.linode.com) |
| 23:14.05 | rsimpkins | One item I'm particuarly personally interested in is poverty. So few people I know understand it. Hardly anyone I talk to has even been to a government assisted home, or the projects. |
| 23:15.09 | rsimpkins | The reality I see and experience there is so different from what I hear from my peers. I'm afraid they think they know, but really don't know. And that means they are free to make bad decisions. |
| 23:15.27 | rsimpkins | That's the worst kind of knowledge. Thinking you're right about something. |
| 23:15.35 | Gate | The most government assistance I've been around was in college |
| 23:16.19 | Gate | rsimpkins: so my counterpoint would be: does that given them the right to put a gun to your head and take your money for themselves? |
| 23:17.39 | rsimpkins | Does it make it right? No. Does it make it possilbe? Of course. |
| 23:17.58 | rsimpkins | And the kids suffer so much. Hard for me to think about it. |
| 23:18.07 | rsimpkins | I feel like I let every kid I met there down. |
| 23:18.50 | rsimpkins | I guess I'm one of those guys that has empathy for children. |
| 23:18.59 | rsimpkins | Maybe I should be more hard-hearted? |
| 23:19.06 | Gate | rsimpkins: robbery is always possible. Leaving someone to die of starvation is wrong. Robbery is wrong. If I am to help I would rather do it without government coersion, corruption or waste. |
| 23:19.39 | Gate | I would never argue that. |
| 23:19.49 | rsimpkins | Based on my real-world experience it is going to take more than a friendly hand to fix the problem. |
| 23:20.03 | rsimpkins | It is going to take a lot of pain, heartache, and well - guns. |
| 23:20.48 | rsimpkins | The problem is getting much worse, and shows no sign at all of getting better under any presidential candidate. |
| 23:21.09 | Gate | rsimpkins: so you are arguing that the only way to resolve the worst excesses of poverty is the forcible redistribution of wealth? |
| 23:21.48 | rsimpkins | Gate: I don't know what the answer is. I really don't. When you're in the trenches, you see it, and you realize the overhwhelming pile of crap these people are in... you don't have any answers. |
| 23:21.57 | rsimpkins | Anyone who says they know how to fix it is lying. |
| 23:22.09 | Gate | rsimpkins: I concur. |
| 23:22.27 | rsimpkins | What I'd love to hear is any politician acknowldge the reality of poverty. |
| 23:22.37 | Gate | My argument isn't for how to make anyone's life better, its how to make it more free. |
| 23:23.03 | rsimpkins | Gate: When you're hungry, you don't care much about freedom. Just sayin'. |
| 23:23.18 | rsimpkins | Life gets real simple. |
| 23:23.38 | Gate | rsimpkins: and when someone is starving, they don't have to put a gun to my head for me to feed them. Just sayin. |
| 23:23.58 | rsimpkins | Gate: They will if you pin them in a corner. |
| 23:24.13 | Gate | I didn't say they wouldn't, I said they wouldn't have to. |
| 23:24.32 | rsimpkins | Yes, I see what you mean. |
| 23:24.59 | Gate | My morality is such that if I allow someone to die when the price of saving them was less than my own (or my family, or other innocent) life then I am guilty. I would feed a starving person at my door. |
| 23:26.09 | Gate | When my tax money is being taken by force, used to murder people or plain wasted much more than anyone is helped, all it does is stregthen my resolve that it is wrong. |
| 23:26.27 | rsimpkins | The issue isn't just money. It is power. |
| 23:26.37 | rsimpkins | They aren't just hungry, and thats the problem. |
| 23:27.21 | rsimpkins | I'm pretty sure we'd need the power of a government to really help the kids in these situations. They need to be removed from their parents. That is an awefully serious thing to do. |
| 23:27.56 | Gate | rsimpkins: that is a point at which my theory of government is a little unrefined, taking kids from their parents. |
| 23:28.21 | rsimpkins | These parents, at their foundation... they love their kids. But they are incapable of taking care of them. And they don't realize that. |
| 23:28.35 | rsimpkins | They are abusive, or cruel, or ignorant, etc. |
| 23:28.43 | Gate | rsimpkins: I see two sides: children who are abused need to be saved from the monsters who do it, but who defines abuse? Is a spanking for stealing something abuse? Who decides that? The government? |
| 23:29.04 | rsimpkins | Gate: Oh dude. If you saw what I saw, you'd realize that the line isn't nearly that grey. |
| 23:29.17 | rsimpkins | Gate: I'm talking about *real* abuse. |
| 23:29.26 | Gate | rsimpkins: I see a fuzzy line in my own family right now. |
| 23:29.28 | rsimpkins | We can't even help those kids. |
| 23:30.16 | Gate | rsimpkins: a real life version of the sins of the father.... a more depressing subject doesn't come to mind. |
| 23:30.29 | rsimpkins | Yeah, child abuse sucks. |
| 23:30.59 | rsimpkins | We over-apply force in the wrong areas, and are understaffed and under-budgeted in the areas where it is right. |
| 23:31.51 | rsimpkins | The right thing to do in many of the "homes" I've been in would be to remove the children. The parents care, but they lack the ability to enact that care in to real-world benefit. |
| 23:32.16 | rsimpkins | So the children suffer, greatly, and then they become pregnant teens, and the cycle continues. |
| 23:32.28 | rsimpkins | And the problem multiplies. |
| 23:33.20 | Gate | rsimpkins: I simply don't get that kind of inefficacy. I can see intellectually how it would come about, but emotionally I can accept that level of incompetence in the care of a child. |
| 23:33.48 | rsimpkins | Gate: Dude. Yeah. The social workers I have known that work in these areas are ghosts of humans. |
| 23:33.53 | rsimpkins | Empty shells of people. |
| 23:34.31 | Gate | Well, I can see how being exposed to that much pain and suffering would neccecarily make a person insensitive to it |
| 23:34.57 | rsimpkins | Like I said, it is all too dawg-on depressing to get my neighbors to listen to me... let alone try to actually move them to some kind of meaningful action to change it. |
| 23:35.15 | rsimpkins | mostly, I am met with disbelief. They don't want to belive it is that bad. And it is. |
| 23:36.02 | Gate | because its out of the realm of experience of most people |
| 23:37.25 | Gate | I know that problems that severe exist, including in the U.S. I haven't observed them because I choose not to associate with the kinds of people who are that incapable of the most basic human tasks. |
| 23:38.24 | rsimpkins | Yes. basic human tasks including - you know - using a toilet. You'd be surprised to learn how many americans lack that particular skill. |
| 23:39.26 | Gate | rsimpkins: ok, I'll express some disbelief there. Toilets are pretty ubiquitous, I would be hard pressed to believe that anyone who hadn't completely destroyed their bodies and minds with drugs.... oh. |
| 23:39.52 | rsimpkins | hehe. Yeah dude. It is gross. |
| 23:40.05 | rsimpkins | And it is hard to walk in to these places. |
| 23:40.14 | rsimpkins | You never quite get used to being inside. |
| 23:40.37 | rsimpkins | And you'll always remember the smell. Still today, I can remember. |
| 23:41.01 | Gate | rsimpkins: I would consider that a good thing. So are you a social worker? Volunteer? missionary? I'm curious how you came about these experiences |
| 23:41.17 | rsimpkins | I was a volutneer community worker in the projects in Nashville. |
| 23:41.26 | rsimpkins | And I didn't last long. |
| 23:41.28 | rsimpkins | :( |
| 23:41.32 | Gate | gotcha. |
| 23:41.57 | rsimpkins | I know there are worse places... but I.. frankly, can't imagine it getting worse. |
| 23:42.11 | rsimpkins | But I trust the people that told me, so I can accept I may be wrong. |
| 23:42.37 | Gate | I'd imagine that it would be much worse in cities with more severe urban decay, like Detroit. |
| 23:42.52 | Gate | but without experience I am just postulating. |
| 23:43.53 | rsimpkins | I've heard that is one of the bad areas, yes. The reality is that there are many areas like it. Salt Lake has its gems, but nothing like the scale of what I saw. |
| 23:44.18 | rsimpkins | The real challenge is the use of sex as currency. It leads to lots of children. |
| 23:44.27 | Gate | I don't get why anyone would choose that path via drugs. A self annihilation so severe that simple suicide would be a far preferable option. |
| 23:45.32 | rsimpkins | Many of the people I met don't know there is soemthing different. They live in a one-block bubble. A few I had met rarely get up off their couch/bed/toilet thingy. |
| 23:45.41 | rsimpkins | Basically just waiting around to die at that point. |
| 23:46.22 | rsimpkins | The county hospital was freakin' awesome too. |
| 23:46.31 | rsimpkins | I'll have to tell you a story about that some day. :) |
| 23:46.46 | Gate | I have a cousin who is an EMT near there |
| 23:47.00 | Gate | not terribly close, thought (I don't remember his name, and I've met him once) |
| 23:47.07 | rsimpkins | In Nashville? |
| 23:47.16 | Gate | I believe so, yes |
| 23:47.26 | rsimpkins | There are some world-class hospitals there. Baptist. Vanderbuilt. And I think one more major one. |
| 23:47.33 | rsimpkins | These are temples of the medical profession. |
| 23:47.50 | rsimpkins | Then there is county... which is about as farthest from the temple as you can possibly imagine. |
| 23:48.15 | Gate | My mother was born in Nashville, grew up in a small town west of there |
| 23:48.19 | rsimpkins | I'm sure there are worse places, but I just haven't seen them. |
| 23:48.32 | rsimpkins | Which one? |
| 23:48.51 | Gate | Waverly |
| 23:49.17 | Gate | I've been back there with her just the once |
| 23:49.23 | rsimpkins | Oh, maps shows that quite a ways out. I never got that far. |
| 23:50.00 | rsimpkins | I never went west of Hilsboro, really. |
| 23:50.34 | Gate | I take it my grandfather.... fell out of favor... with one of the Nashville unions, so they had to move a ways out |
| 23:51.15 | Gate | gotcha |
| 23:52.50 | Gate | Gate: well, I'm off, but in closing: don't let my arguments sound so arrogant that it leads you to think that I expect my solution would solve everybodiy's problems. I don't and that is not my intent. |
| 23:53.05 | Gate | ... did I just highlight myself? |
| 23:53.18 | Gate | wanders off |
| 23:53.55 | rsimpkins | Gate: :) Didn't get that impression at all. Thanks for the chat. |