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| 15:17.28 | eightyeight | ~onjoin -Lone_Wanderer |
| 15:17.28 | ibot | ok, eightyeight |
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| 15:20.28 | Lone_Wanderer | Oops, didn't notice I had one. Sorry about that. |
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| 15:22.00 | eightyeight | :) |
| 15:22.25 | Lone_Wanderer | What was it? |
| 15:22.28 | Lone_Wanderer | is curious. |
| 15:23.11 | eightyeight | i'm guessing a lart using the brac bot, which hasn't been in here for a while |
| 15:23.20 | Lone_Wanderer | ah, that's annoying |
| 15:23.39 | jima | larts Lone_Wanderer |
| 15:23.47 | jima | we can't have it happen for nothing. |
| 15:24.15 | Lone_Wanderer | Hey, I didn't set it up. Larts for no reason dilute the purpose they serve. |
| 15:24.48 | Lone_Wanderer | I should get a cricket bat with LART woodburned into it for my cubicle. |
| 15:24.59 | jima | larts for no purpose are one thing, FAILED larts for no purpose are far, far worse. |
| 15:25.28 | jima | at my last job, i had an "office lart," a 30" 2x2 |
| 15:25.44 | Lone_Wanderer | I could have a rack for it with a red "break in case of emergency" seal on it. |
| 15:25.53 | jima | oooh, nice |
| 15:26.19 | Lone_Wanderer | Actually, come to think of it, I could use the "Remove Before Arming" flag I got in Iraq. |
| 15:26.25 | jima | ! |
| 15:26.29 | Lone_Wanderer | It looks delightfully authentic. |
| 15:26.39 | Lone_Wanderer | (Probably because it is.) |
| 15:26.47 | jima | i was gonna say... |
| 15:27.37 | Lone_Wanderer | I just wish I knew what it belonged to. I think I'll just make something up. Nobody will know if I don't. |
| 15:28.10 | jima | "nuclear warhead." "err, why'd you remove it?" "i can't talk about that." |
| 15:28.15 | Lone_Wanderer | hahahaha |
| 15:28.44 | Lone_Wanderer | I knew a guy who was driving out in the west desert one day, at night, going to whatever that town on the border is |
| 15:28.45 | jima | 2 days later the FBI visits them, wondering why they were googling for "nuclear weapons iraq" |
| 15:28.53 | Lone_Wanderer | the little gambling place that's west of the salt flats |
| 15:29.01 | jima | westover? |
| 15:29.04 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 15:29.06 | fadein | wendover |
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| 15:29.13 | Lone_Wanderer | wendover, t hat's the one |
| 15:29.19 | jima | fadein: ok, i've never been there |
| 15:29.22 | Lone_Wanderer | it's also west of Dugway Proving Grounds |
| 15:29.28 | fadein | neither have I, but that's no excuse |
| 15:29.44 | jima | i've also only been in utah for 13 months. ;-) |
| 15:29.44 | fadein | ;) |
| 15:30.00 | Lone_Wanderer | so it's the middle of a moonless night on this empty freeway and a black semi, escorted by four black SUVs, none of which have any lights on, go flying by him at about 120 mph |
| 15:30.14 | jima | oooooh crap. |
| 15:30.28 | Lone_Wanderer | just west of a stockpile of chemical, etc. weapons |
| 15:30.45 | jima | yeah, that's totally legit. |
| 15:31.18 | Lone_Wanderer | makes me wonder though - if you're transporting dangerous things, wouldn't you want it as inconspicuous as possible? |
| 15:31.31 | jima | you'd think... |
| 15:31.40 | Lone_Wanderer | 'cause that just kind of screams "Hey guys, I have a nuclear warhead in here!" |
| 15:31.59 | jima | no, no -- that's what they want you to think. |
| 15:32.01 | saturdayplace | Seriously. I'd paint my truck like the trailers of one of those cross-country moving companies. |
| 15:32.09 | jima | the nuke is actually in the minivan going just under the limit. |
| 15:32.28 | Lone_Wanderer | then again if it was a nuke they probably had air assets overhead |
| 15:32.59 | jima | there are ways to be a little subtle even with air assets |
| 15:33.05 | Lone_Wanderer | heh yeah. Schyamalan ending: My friend was driving the nuke! |
| 15:33.12 | jima | run parallel almost at the horizon, etc |
| 15:33.27 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, with an AWACS, it could be way way up there and you'd never really know |
| 15:33.36 | Lone_Wanderer | maybe AWACS isn't the one I'm thinking of |
| 15:33.49 | jima | the airborne radar birds? |
| 15:33.57 | Lone_Wanderer | mmm, not radar |
| 15:34.04 | jima | yeah, that's what AWACS is |
| 15:34.20 | Lone_Wanderer | the one I'm thinking of is a modified C-130 that can monitor several hundred.... things... on the ground, in real time |
| 15:34.21 | jima | advanced warning and control system, iirc |
| 15:34.41 | jima | that's...something else, yeah. i'm not sure of a name. |
| 15:34.48 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah, that's what an AWACS is, iirc they're for C3I in airspaces |
| 15:35.02 | Lone_Wanderer | the one I'm thinking of is for keeping track of what's on the ground |
| 15:35.06 | Lone_Wanderer | similar concept though |
| 15:35.46 | Lone_Wanderer | we had some of those flying with us in Iraq from time to time. They can see things moving, but don't have enough gadgets to know what they all are |
| 15:35.46 | jima | i forget the term, theater management or whatever |
| 15:35.58 | Lone_Wanderer | so they'd assign us targets and we'd look at them and tell them what they were |
| 15:36.12 | Lone_Wanderer | "It's a cow." "It's a tumbleweed." |
| 15:36.37 | jima | "it's a tank. oh, wait. it's a smoldering former tank." |
| 15:36.43 | Lone_Wanderer | yep |
| 15:37.13 | Lone_Wanderer | Sometimes I wondered why we were even there. |
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| 15:37.27 | jima | natural question. |
| 15:38.07 | Lone_Wanderer | We'd get on target and it'd be like... well... there are three AC-130s (huge gunships), a wing of F-16s, two Predators, and another Shadow 200 from Mosul. |
| 15:38.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh and some Apaches and Kiowas, and a handful of other aircraft that only identified themselves by a callsign, which meant they were 160th |
| 15:38.55 | Lone_Wanderer | BUT IT'S SUPER IMPORTANT THAT OUR FLYING CAMERA IS THERE TOO! |
| 15:40.12 | jima | well, it's not like data can be SHARED, or anything |
| 15:40.32 | jima | (i know it can, which freaks some people out) |
| 15:40.36 | Lone_Wanderer | What do you mean? |
| 15:41.02 | jima | oh, just the sharing of incoming data |
| 15:41.08 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh |
| 15:41.49 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah, I'm pretty sure they can create an ad-hoc TCP/IP network in the air |
| 15:42.26 | Lone_Wanderer | Our aircraft's ground control station (it's a UAV) can run a few different servers, I forget which but I'm pretty sure IRC is one of them |
| 15:42.38 | jima | ah, don't know about that part, but i've heard the video feeds from those things go out unencrypted to facilitate getting the streams to the theater command |
| 15:42.49 | Lone_Wanderer | and they can all handoff targets (which just means coordinates, really) to other aircraft in the area |
| 15:43.18 | Lone_Wanderer | oh yeah, we can send our video feed wherever we want, including to a man-portable laptop on the ground, which is really half the point |
| 15:43.29 | jima | people get a little twitchy about that, even though it's not the C&C channel |
| 15:43.45 | Lone_Wanderer | our operators are in constant radio contact with the guys on the ground, which is the other half of the point |
| 15:43.59 | Lone_Wanderer | about what, the fact that we can share video? |
| 15:44.02 | jima | "zomg the enemy can see what we see" etc |
| 15:44.07 | Lone_Wanderer | oh, right |
| 15:44.17 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah, it's pretty lame that the video isn't encrypted |
| 15:44.25 | jima | it's a calculated risk |
| 15:44.30 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 15:44.43 | Lone_Wanderer | I don't know what all they include in the calculation, but it seems like a bad choice to me |
| 15:45.02 | jima | the overhead of having to get the keys to where they need to go was apparently deemed onerous. |
| 15:45.10 | Lone_Wanderer | ehn |
| 15:45.21 | Lone_Wanderer | we have the aircraft physically in our posession before we launch it |
| 15:45.34 | Lone_Wanderer | but I guess there could be circumstances where you might not have it |
| 15:46.08 | jima | oh, if you're taking the video to the control station and then rebroadcasting from there...ok. |
| 15:46.27 | Lone_Wanderer | one of the bigger concerns we faced was that if someone was watching our video stream as we came back to base they could see all of our defenses and things from above |
| 15:46.33 | jima | my (mistaken) impression was that the theater command was getting the stream straight from the UAV |
| 15:46.39 | Lone_Wanderer | well, we can do that too |
| 15:46.43 | jima | yeah, that's a bigger concern |
| 15:48.22 | jima | ok, time to focus i guess |
| 15:48.30 | jima | cheers! |
| 15:48.38 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, definitely time to work. Later. |
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| 18:41.50 | bbeattie | Anyone ever use domainworth.com? Some company in Austria wants to buy my linkexplorer.com domain for $1k, domain worth says $2.6k |
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| 19:38.27 | Lone_Wanderer | How do you tell a directory that every file created in that dir should have a different u:g than the file's creator? |
| 19:38.55 | tensai | Lone_Wanderer: setuid and setgid on the directory |
| 19:40.07 | Lone_Wanderer | thanks tensai |
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| 20:07.17 | jessie|work | Has anyone successfully connected to America First Credit Union or Central Bank with OFX? I cannot seem to get it to work. |
| 20:07.48 | programmerq | it's been a long time since I've done anything with OFX. I don't even know if my current bank offers it. (I'm sure they do.) |
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| 20:17.46 | mecworks | bbeattie, hey, you interested in presenting on Raspberry Pi at the Sept. SLLUG meeting? |
| 20:19.37 | bbeattie | mecworks: I won't in town that day. |
| 20:19.58 | mecworks | bbeattie, I think linkexplorer is worth $50k. Tell them I said so. |
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| 20:21.50 | bbeattie | mecworks: heh, ... actually, they wanted to use a third party domain seller which requires w9's. I should have asked for $2.6k, maybe after taxes there'd be enough left for lunch money. |
| 20:22.12 | mecworks | :) |
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| 20:43.30 | Migs | http://www.blogdearte26.es/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/ecce-et.jpg |
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| 21:01.58 | shalkie | KSL isn't going to air 'The New Normal' it seems. http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEW_NORMAL_BAN?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT |
| 21:03.40 | shalkie | Oh... I always wondered why I have to watch KUCW for SNL... KSL refused to air it. |
| 21:07.00 | rsimpkins | Does anyone out there like Romney's 'drill baby drill' energy plan? |
| 21:07.31 | neybar_work | at least he has a plan that doesn't depend on fairy dust and rainbows? |
| 21:07.58 | neybar_work | not sure that drill baby drill is the right answer either though. |
| 21:08.06 | rsimpkins | I'm not saying Obama's is better... I'm just not so sure about Romney's. |
| 21:08.58 | JoshH | drill more is definitely a fairy dust plan |
| 21:09.09 | rsimpkins | He wants renewables to complete equally with oil, but wants to continue to keep all the tax rebates for oil... while getting rid of tax rebates for renewable. |
| 21:09.14 | JoshH | no candidate has any real answers, and we're basically screwed |
| 21:09.39 | rsimpkins | Why do we have to settle for being screwed? |
| 21:09.41 | mecworks | I would rather have a push for solar, wind, geothermal and tidal energy with a focused trailing off of fossil fuels. |
| 21:10.19 | jessie|work | I'd rather eliminate the government out of our energy. |
| 21:10.20 | mecworks | Big oil should transition to different forms of energy. |
| 21:10.29 | rsimpkins | I swear we should just randomly appoint our government and git rid of this election business alltogether. |
| 21:10.46 | mecworks | Big oil buys government influence though. |
| 21:11.12 | neybar_work | because of course Big Solar doesen't buy influence either. |
| 21:11.13 | jessie|work | Hence why I would rather just not have government regulation on things. |
| 21:11.14 | rsimpkins | 'Mr. JoshH, you have been drafted as POTUS. Please report to DC on Jan. 1st. Failure to comply will result in your arrest!" |
| 21:11.43 | rsimpkins | jessie|work: No regulation... on anything? or just somethings? |
| 21:12.34 | jessie|work | On anything would be fine by me. |
| 21:12.46 | rsimpkins | jessie|work: Um, didn't we try that? |
| 21:13.16 | jessie|work | When? |
| 21:14.04 | JoshH | somalia is like that |
| 21:14.13 | rsimpkins | jessie|work: I'm just confused how you can say you don't want any regulation on _anything_. No regulation on cars/highwasy/driver saftey? No regulation on nuclear material? No regulation on food safety? |
| 21:14.58 | jessie|work | Correct! Because I thoroughly believe that the free market has more incentive to provide good products without government regulation than with it. |
| 21:15.14 | rsimpkins | jessie|work: But not all things are driven by a free market. |
| 21:15.23 | rsimpkins | jessie|work: And that is where I'll leave it. :) |
| 21:15.25 | jessie|work | And that is mostly due to our wonderful government. |
| 21:15.36 | rsimpkins | jessie|work: You're not thinking outside the box on that one. |
| 21:15.47 | rsimpkins | Cause I'd love to build my own nuclear reactor in your back yard. |
| 21:15.54 | rsimpkins | And it isn't your back yard any way. |
| 21:15.56 | rsimpkins | It is everyones. |
| 21:15.58 | rsimpkins | Or rather, no ones. |
| 21:16.13 | rsimpkins | Sounds more like anarchy. |
| 21:16.19 | jessie|work | Ding ding ding. |
| 21:16.26 | jessie|work | You hit the nail on the head, rsimpkins |
| 21:16.47 | jessie|work | However, not anarchy where there are no laws. |
| 21:16.55 | jessie|work | Counter intuitive, I know. |
| 21:17.08 | jessie|work | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khRkBEdSDDo |
| 21:17.08 | mecworks | Lack of regulation led to the financial crisis and the sub-prime mortgage fiasco. Big business will not self regulate. Small business typically will. This is because of the closeness to the people small business is vs. the distance from the people, mob mentality and focus on the bottom line that big business has. |
| 21:17.11 | rsimpkins | Well, I guess I am not willing to defend my house with whatever military grade weapons I can afford. I'd like the government to do that so I can go do things that I much would prefer to do. |
| 21:17.36 | jessie|work | Or you (and/or your local community) could hire a local agency to do it for you. |
| 21:17.55 | rsimpkins | HAHAHAH. You don't know much about Lehi do you. They can't hire a firm to freakin' pave a street! |
| 21:18.18 | rsimpkins | Tribalisim FTW. |
| 21:18.23 | jessie|work | So don't pay them and hire someone else! |
| 21:18.40 | rsimpkins | Like... Comcast? |
| 21:18.43 | neybar_work | no one said that disasters would never happen, just that when they do the market can self regulate. |
| 21:18.52 | jessie|work | Because tellecom is totally unregulated? Come on. |
| 21:18.57 | rsimpkins | hehe. :) |
| 21:18.59 | JoshH | it's amazing how many internet libertarians still exist after they've been getting destroyed in internet debates since at least the mid-90's when i first saw one |
| 21:19.18 | JoshH | i've seen all these exact arguments/conversations hundreds of times |
| 21:19.21 | JoshH | and they all go exactly the same way |
| 21:19.40 | rsimpkins | JoshH: I haven't gotten to the Hitler jokes yet. Come on! :) |
| 21:20.02 | JoshH | heh |
| 21:20.32 | programmerq | I'm definitely against overregulation, which does exist, and I do believe contributed to the financial crisis. |
| 21:20.49 | programmerq | the hard part is finding that "sweet spot" of regulation that isn't too much, and isn't too little |
| 21:20.51 | rsimpkins | But back to the oil situation.Someone likes this deal. A lot of people seem okay with it. Why? Apathy? Lack of information/education? |
| 21:20.56 | programmerq | unfortunately, that's somewhat of a moving target. |
| 21:21.14 | JoshH | not exactly apathy, just... futility |
| 21:21.16 | bbeattie | rsimpkins: Lehi hires based on how long the company can keep main street shut down during the summer. Try really annoy anyone who lives on the west side of Lehi, Saratoga and Eagle Mountain. |
| 21:21.19 | rsimpkins | programmerq: Seems things get more regulated over time than less... as we learn from mistakes. |
| 21:21.43 | rsimpkins | bbeattie: Hey! We spent 500 MILLION bucks on pioneer crossing for you guys. |
| 21:21.49 | bbeattie | rsimpkins: I actually rarely go anywhere in Utah county, up to SL county to spend my money there... |
| 21:21.52 | neybar_work | Lehi hates SS and EM anyway. I'm fairly certian that was part of the bid process |
| 21:21.58 | rsimpkins | bbeattie: Besides, you had your chance to elect chanzie so you could all get paraplanes to fly to work. |
| 21:22.00 | JoshH | i've stopped caring about the government and thinking they will ever fix anything, and am just going to enjoy fine wine, great food, and great sunsets for the rest of my life without paying further attention |
| 21:22.03 | bbeattie | Pioneer crossing is useless for me actually... taken it twice. :) |
| 21:22.03 | programmerq | on the oil thing, I definitely think it's okay to drill and use the resources we have. this, however, won't work forever, but it won't make sense to switch entirely away from fossil fuels while the alternatives are still young. We definitely need to put resources into alternatives to help lower their cost in the long run. |
| 21:22.43 | neybar_work | 2100 exit is decent, but feels way too slow. |
| 21:22.43 | bbeattie | 2100 north is even more useless, adds 5 minutes and 3 miles when heading north... |
| 21:22.52 | rsimpkins | JoshH: hehe. You'll make it. I'll join you. The kiddos - well - they are on their own. |
| 21:22.55 | programmerq | I'm a fan of nuclear energy (yes, even with the nuclear disaster in japan a couple years ago). |
| 21:23.03 | jessie|work | ^^ |
| 21:23.06 | neybar_work | same |
| 21:23.18 | neybar_work | I really wish we could get more nuclear initiatives going. |
| 21:23.21 | JoshH | where do you want the waste? |
| 21:23.27 | jessie|work | And if Johnson (I think it was Johnson) wouldn't have made re-enriching uranium illegal, we'd be in a better place with waste. |
| 21:23.37 | neybar_work | surely we can build a better reactor now than we could 40-60 years ago |
| 21:23.38 | bbeattie | the 40mph limit on 2100 and pioneer is just politics at work... |
| 21:23.42 | programmerq | JoshH: deep in the salt caves where it can safely sit for hundreds of years |
| 21:23.52 | rsimpkins | Nuclear is a good option, but we need to use much more efficient reactors. |
| 21:23.56 | rsimpkins | The ones we are building suck. |
| 21:24.12 | programmerq | the ones being built are much better than 50 years ago though |
| 21:24.14 | neybar_work | building^H^H^Hed |
| 21:24.23 | JoshH | to be honest, i like nuclear power also |
| 21:24.24 | programmerq | and they are continually being developed and improved |
| 21:24.29 | JoshH | but it takes a lot of government regulation... |
| 21:24.40 | programmerq | indeed it does take a lot of regulation |
| 21:24.58 | programmerq | let's just hope it doesn't get overregulated to the point where it's too expensive an alternative to fossil fuels. |
| 21:25.20 | fugue88 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorium-based_nuclear_power |
| 21:25.22 | programmerq | I don't think it is currently overregulated, but government tends to go in that direction. |
| 21:25.24 | rsimpkins | If by "regulation" you mean NRC good ol' boys who work for a lifetime in the same plant and get 'greased' by the owners - then yeah, I'm for that. |
| 21:25.51 | rsimpkins | China is much better at this than we are, already, but they need to be. |
| 21:26.08 | programmerq | NRC? |
| 21:26.13 | rsimpkins | So, good luck China. Please don't skimp on the building materials like you do your apartments. |
| 21:26.27 | rsimpkins | programmerq: http://www.nrc.gov/ |
| 21:26.40 | neybar_work | rsimpkins: it's ok, they have spare population anyway. |
| 21:27.10 | rsimpkins | neybar_work: Ahh, true that. If they need a radation shield they'll just pile a million bodies around the containment dome. Right? |
| 21:27.53 | rsimpkins | "They all needed jobs. So we gave them lead suits, and told them where to stand." - China Nuclear Regulation Agency |
| 21:28.03 | neybar_work | that might be a little harsh... maybe they'll just bury it and put a girls only play ground on it. |
| 21:28.18 | rsimpkins | lol |
| 21:28.51 | rsimpkins | Okay, I am done laughing at the suffering of my fellow humans. I'm going to go take a bath in some Romney oil. |
| 21:30.27 | *** part/#utah jessie|work (~jessie@50-73-35-165-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 21:30.35 | programmerq | the idea of an all electric car is fabulous... except for the fact that you can't recharge the batteries in a few minutes, and have 300+ miles range on that charge. |
| 21:34.17 | Migs | I think a solar powered car is a better idea |
| 21:34.23 | Migs | charges during the day so you can run it all night |
| 21:34.53 | neybar_work | you'd need much more efficient solar gatherers or a lot more land. |
| 21:35.15 | Migs | I envision that 90% of the car would be solar panels |
| 21:35.20 | bbeattie | electric car with a VERY efficient generator that can run on gasoline, natural gas, propane, hydrogen would be a simple fix for the next 5 years. |
| 21:35.55 | bbeattie | big batteries are heavy, expensive, and go bad quickly. |
| 21:35.57 | neybar_work | we also need better batteries. |
| 21:37.39 | bbeattie | http://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/maxwell-technologies/ultracapacitor-power-for-a-drag-racecar/16729-47991-_4.html |
| 21:40.26 | rsimpkins | Why not build a transportation system that does not need roads? Personal VTOL craft - anyone? If everyone had a flying car, then no one would get stuck on I15 tryint to escape the city when the nuclear power plant explodes. |
| 21:40.43 | rsimpkins | Duh. |
| 21:42.23 | neybar_work | VTOL sound interesting. Not sure how to make it safe. I wouldn't trust myself with it let alone fellow commuters :) |
| 21:42.57 | neybar_work | My mind wanders enough just driving a car and only dealing with 2 axis |
| 21:43.19 | rsimpkins | gotta be computer controlled. No humans should be flying 'em. |
| 21:44.26 | rsimpkins | If we can safley land a rover on mars using some convoluted many-stage decent with 72 pyrotechnic discharges and a freaking sky crane - we should be able to build a flying car that can fly itself. :) |
| 21:45.38 | neybar_work | at 40 billion a pop |
| 21:45.53 | neybar_work | (actuall budget numbers may vary) |
| 21:45.54 | rsimpkins | I hear things get cheaper when you build lots of them. :) |
| 21:46.19 | rsimpkins | Besides, the flying cars need not be nuclear powered. |
| 21:46.28 | rsimpkins | At least not directly. |
| 21:48.21 | manithree1 | rsimpkins: So why would we want to make our energy problems worse? |
| 21:48.44 | rsimpkins | manithree1: Because it would be tons more fun! :) |
| 21:48.55 | manithree1 | rsimpkins: good enough. |
| 21:49.03 | mecworks | I think every all-electric car should be covered in solar panels. For long drives they would not help much but for a daily commuter < 30 miles each way, the batteries could be trickle charged during the day while at the office. A commuter may never actually have to charge his car for very long lengths of time or in inclement weather. |
| 21:49.58 | manithree1 | mecworks: Same question, what's the point of making energy problems worse? |
| 21:50.30 | manithree1 | And don't try to convince me electric cars are more fun. |
| 21:51.13 | mecworks | manithree, explain what you mean by making things worse. |
| 21:51.36 | mecworks | I have no context for your question. |
| 21:51.45 | manithree1 | Generally, it takes more energy to manufacture a photovoltaic than you ever get out of it. Why make cars that take more energy? |
| 21:52.46 | manithree1 | Solar cells are good for getting electricity off the grid, not much else (for now) |
| 21:52.59 | rsimpkins | yeah, solar power still has a way to go. There are some interesting developments coming. But I suspect they will be wrapped up in legal patent wars for 114 years before anyone can actually use the technology. |
| 21:53.25 | rsimpkins | But no one expects the flying car. No one! :) |
| 21:53.47 | manithree1 | That's our greatest weapon, the element of surprise! |
| 21:53.56 | manithree1 | And ruthlesness, our 2 greatest weapons |
| 21:53.57 | mecworks | I'm unwilling to accept your premise that solar cell technology will continue to be as inefficient as it is currently, especially as volume production and technology will naturally lead to lower cost/lower energy production. |
| 21:54.03 | rsimpkins | manithree1: lol |
| 21:54.35 | rsimpkins | mecworks: someone will figure it out, and then sue anyone that produces "square" solar panels. :) |
| 21:54.49 | rsimpkins | They'll probably win like... a billion dollars. |
| 21:55.03 | tensai | rsimpkins: bitter? |
| 21:55.12 | rsimpkins | tensai: Yes. Apple owns me. |
| 21:56.11 | rsimpkins | And that's the answer, isn't it.... the iCar - designed in Cuptertino. |
| 21:56.26 | rsimpkins | It'll have one button on it "go" and then you arrive where it thinks you need to be. |
| 21:56.35 | manithree1 | mecworks: I never said they never would get more efficient. They have had, what, 30+ years to get there and still haven't. Probably because there haven't been enough subsides</sarcasm> |
| 21:57.47 | mecworks | manithree1: actually, I agree with you on the subsidies. |
| 21:58.24 | manithree1 | mecworks: I think something will replace gasoline, but I'm not betting on photovoltaics, except with my tax dollars. |
| 22:00.27 | bbeattie | I'm for requiring all cars to weigh under 500lb's and be no taller than 3' high and 4' wide (any length okay for big families). No need for 800' wide freeways and 100' wide streets. Road costs plummet to maintainable levels, less road base and infrastructure, lower death rate (smaller objects take impacts better than larger) and best of all, all intersections have over/under for straight through traffic since car height is limited. Heavy objects go by rai |
| 22:00.27 | bbeattie | lroad. |
| 22:01.18 | bbeattie | No stop lights, if there's too much traffic for stop signs you do an over/under pass. |
| 22:02.06 | manithree1 | bbeattie: If you ever run for Supreme Overlord, you don't have my vote. |
| 22:02.11 | bbeattie | Lots of wasted energy in motion, far more than people spend on heating, cooling and entertainment. |
| 22:03.34 | manithree1 | bbeattie: Don't forget to physically limit max speed to, say, 30 mph |
| 22:04.02 | bbeattie | I love cars, don't get me wrong. sports cars, gas guzzlers and all of them, but it's not as practical on a large scale and if you like to race, you can have as much or more fun in a lighter and smaller car. Super cars are very small compared to even compact cars. |
| 22:04.42 | bbeattie | manithree1: um, cart racing is 70mph on very limited courses... No reason any sub 500lb car can't do 200mph.... |
| 22:05.04 | manithree1 | bbeattie: Show me a 500 lb car that can carry a family of 7 at 200 mph |
| 22:05.12 | bbeattie | what's faster, an f1 or go-cart or a hummer? |
| 22:06.39 | bbeattie | 2 sub 500 lb cars could easily, and fit 4. Who said the cars can't be attached so one driver controls the consist like train. |
| 22:07.27 | bbeattie | sorry, fit 8 |
| 22:07.49 | bbeattie | or do 4 connected cars that hold 2 people each. |
| 22:07.53 | manithree1 | bbeattie:I still think you're throwing safety out the window. |
| 22:09.50 | manithree1 | and comfort - forget long trips |
| 22:10.10 | bbeattie | Smaller is always better for safety as long as you're not smashing a hummer into an ant. Even a Hummer is a death trap when going head on to a semi truck and the death rate of semi's in accidents is higher than cars and trucks (just far fewer accidents with semi's) Aa smart car has better front crash tests than most cars because there's less weight forcing the back of the car into the front of the car. There's also a reason sport planes are small and ther |
| 22:10.12 | bbeattie | e are no 5000 person airliners. |
| 22:10.35 | rsimpkins | You know... my neighbors purchased this special carburator from this guy off the Internet that was supposed to extend their gas milage to 100 mpg using water vapor. It didn't work, and rusted out their engine. |
| 22:10.39 | bbeattie | I've always been comfortable laying down, prefer that to standing. ;) |
| 22:11.13 | manithree1 | rsimpkins: Prolly the same guy that sold me that time machine |
| 22:11.35 | rsimpkins | manithree1: Did you put in the crystals? Those things work. You don't even know! |
| 22:11.42 | *** join/#utah jalbretsen (~jalbretse@67.137.128.105) |
| 22:12.11 | bbeattie | smaller structures can better support themselves than larger structures. Smaller car = smaller brakes needed, less frame for the same impact rating, less gas required, less air friction, less road pressure... |
| 22:12.56 | bbeattie | smaller cars also require smaller AC and heaters... |
| 22:14.06 | rsimpkins | I'd be 100% okay going slower if I could do something else besides drive. If the car that takes me to work travels at 30mph, but I can get through all my morning e-mail by the time I arrive at the office, sign me up. |
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| 22:28.32 | mecworks | I think all flying cars should be dirigibles so that if there is ever a power train failure, your vehicle floats rather than crashes to the ground. |
| 22:28.54 | mecworks | and you can bounce off of each other like bumper cars. |
| 22:30.52 | programmerq | mecworks: you just watch fringe |
| 22:31.04 | programmerq | and, I think there was a doctor who series where everyone had zeplins |
| 22:32.08 | programmerq | the frontrunner actually goes not far from my house, and I can see the tracks from my office. The only question is whether there will actually be a stop close enough to my office to make it make sense for me to take the frontrunner instead of drive. |
| 22:32.10 | zzzirk | I thought it was the parallel universe in Dr. Who as well |
| 22:32.27 | programmerq | yes, it was the parallel universe in doctor who |
| 22:32.30 | programmerq | and in fringe... |
| 22:32.37 | zzzirk | definitely in Fringe |
| 22:32.58 | programmerq | is seeing a pattern |
| 22:33.31 | jalbretsen | what what? Did someone say Doctor Who |
| 22:34.04 | programmerq | http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ZeppelinsFromAnotherWorld - whole list of alternate universes with zeppelins |
| 22:34.06 | jalbretsen | admires is Van Gogh hanging in his office |
| 23:06.04 | resplin_ | I was surprised at how expensive FrontRunner to Davis County is. |
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| 23:31.28 | eightyeight | it's a joke |
| 23:31.49 | eightyeight | uta think providing public access transit means treating it like a free market private corp |
| 23:41.11 | *** part/#utah manithree1 (~blr@li4-76.members.linode.com) |
| 23:49.33 | resplin_ | Though I have to admit it's a lot cheaper than the fast trains in the European cities I have been to. |
| 23:50.05 | resplin_ | But driving is a cheaper alternative here than there. |
| 23:50.21 | shalkie | funny you should talk about trasnportation... I was thinking about this over the weekend. |
| 23:50.29 | JoshH | driving in utah is practically free |
| 23:50.51 | shalkie | We could encourage people to ride mass transit if we moved road maintance over to "private enterprise". |
| 23:51.05 | shalkie | Toll roads seem so perfectly republican to me. |
| 23:51.34 | JoshH | i hate toll roads, especially bridges, since everyone has to stop to pay and it backs up traffic forever |
| 23:54.31 | shalkie | I hate them as well. But if it got people onto mass transit, the fares *might* go down. The republicans can talk about how they got government a little bit further out of your life, might even lower gas tax a bit and the democrats could talk about how they got people on mass transit and are keeping large amounts of crap out of the air. |
