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| 15:36.32 | programmerq | anyone know about using save-hook in .muttrc? |
| 15:36.50 | programmerq | I'm trying to get it so that messages from a mailman list will go to a specific folder |
| 15:40.11 | youtah | So here are my pics from the fire near Saratoga Springs & Eagle Mountain http://utahphotojournalism.com/2012/06/a-few-dump-fire-pics/ |
| 15:41.50 | programmerq | anyone have a .muttrc they want to share? |
| 15:43.00 | mahelious | youtah: i live on smith ranch road. I was literally 10 feet from getting the evacuation order on friday/saturday. |
| 15:43.12 | youtah | really? |
| 15:43.17 | youtah | It was pretty insane |
| 15:43.45 | youtah | it was REALLY weird being up there, in the circle (but not on the line) and being surrounded by just dead, black charcol everywhere |
| 15:44.11 | youtah | They kept telling me that it has its own weather system |
| 15:44.16 | tedp | great set, thanks for sharing |
| 15:44.27 | youtah | and I kept thinking that was such a weird statement, but once you actually get in there, then you understand |
| 15:44.30 | youtah | thanks tedp |
| 15:44.55 | youtah | it was 101 degrees and so dry. Dust devils all over the place. The winds made no sense |
| 15:44.57 | mahelious | i didnt realize we had an explosives plant right there in saratoga. scary. |
| 15:45.04 | youtah | yeah |
| 15:45.13 | youtah | 80% of the people I talked to didn't know |
| 15:45.22 | youtah | that is why they made the evac area so large |
| 15:45.24 | jima | one of my cow-orkers was down in sanpete county sunday/yesterday dealing with the fire line |
| 15:45.50 | youtah | Some old timer said that 20 years ago, there was an explosion there, and it blew out all the windows for like a 2 mile radius |
| 15:46.08 | ekimatuan | We bought property in sanpete county in January. Luckily so far the fire is a good ways away from us. |
| 15:46.31 | youtah | My friend lost his acerage in sanpete. All of their pavilions, sheds, ATVs etc |
| 15:46.43 | youtah | they got their camping trailers out in time, and that was about it |
| 15:47.45 | youtah | glad to hear ekimatuan |
| 15:47.53 | youtah | do you guys have any structures on your property? |
| 15:47.59 | ekimatuan | we haven't built anything yet. |
| 15:48.21 | neybar | nice youtah! |
| 15:48.32 | youtah | We have a cabin near Strawberry Res. We need to rent one of those chain whipper thingies and make a clearing around us |
| 15:48.36 | youtah | thanks neybar |
| 15:48.38 | neybar | I was at station 2 for most of the weekend |
| 15:48.44 | youtah | You too?! |
| 15:48.47 | ekimatuan | we had a driveway graded in, enhanced a flat area, brought in gravel and road base. The only things there on a permanent basis is a picnic table and a smoker/grill. |
| 15:49.16 | neybar | yeah, I was helping on the eagle mountain emergency communication team (emect) |
| 15:49.18 | youtah | I wish I would have know! I would have stopped by and said hello to you and Jayce^... but I guess it was probably better that way. I had a job, and so did the two of you guys. |
| 15:49.36 | ekimatuan | Would have some more clearing done now if jayce and neybar would actually come down :) |
| 15:49.51 | youtah | lol |
| 15:49.53 | Jayce^ | pfft.. you expect us to do your work |
| 15:50.11 | ekimatuan | I helped you move... You can help me clear some trees :P |
| 15:50.17 | youtah | You know what was cool, was to see all of the trees that still had "green" on them, and then touch it and it would just crumble |
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| 15:50.28 | youtah | it was like touching very delicate coral |
| 15:50.30 | Jayce^ | mahelious: we were sitting at the fire station with the radios |
| 15:50.41 | Jayce^ | just moved from butterfield rd |
| 15:50.52 | youtah | it had sucked the moisture right out of the plants instantly |
| 15:51.15 | youtah | Jayce^ I was at the ICP off and on, other than that, I was in the field. I ate about 10 lunchables that weekend. |
| 15:51.26 | ekimatuan | I grew up in Lake Tahoe. Was there 5 years ago during the huge fire there. When we were back there for Christmas that year, seeing all the devastation was surreal. |
| 15:51.29 | youtah | I just bought a whole bunch, threw them in my truck and ran |
| 15:51.57 | youtah | ekimatuan I did a firework show off a couple of barges at incline village about 5 years ago! |
| 15:52.00 | Jayce^ | youtah: we were one of the teams the ICP was coordinating with, on friday I hit the Mack a couple of times moving stuff and getting radio's up |
| 15:52.15 | youtah | I need to take my license. |
| 15:52.22 | youtah | take the test for my license |
| 15:52.26 | youtah | you knew what I meant |
| 15:52.35 | ekimatuan | its easy... even Jayce could do it |
| 15:52.43 | youtah | *zing!* |
| 15:53.09 | youtah | I even already have a radio |
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| 15:53.28 | mahelious | i missed almost the entire thing. was chaperoning some scouts at an overnighter up hobble creek |
| 15:53.30 | youtah | (it's a 5w ht) |
| 15:53.32 | ekimatuan | well the only reason Jayce did it was because he say I had my Tech license. He figured if I could do it he would too. |
| 15:53.53 | ekimatuan | I have the Yaesu vx7r |
| 15:53.58 | ekimatuan | great radio |
| 15:54.13 | ekimatuan | most of my friends who have gotten their licenses have gotten one too |
| 15:54.15 | mahelious | finally got cell phone reception around 4pm on sat. theres like 10 voice mail messages from my wife dramatically reenacting the entire thing. |
| 15:54.21 | youtah | I have a WOUXUN KG-UVD1P |
| 15:54.48 | neybar | mahelious: heh |
| 15:54.57 | ekimatuan | not familiar with that model... |
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| 15:55.05 | youtah | but even bigger than the fire... |
| 15:55.18 | youtah | I about $#%@ my pants when I got a call friday afternoon |
| 15:55.23 | youtah | and it went something like this... |
| 15:55.26 | macnewbold | youtah: have you liked your wouxun? |
| 15:56.15 | youtah | "Hi, my name is ------------ and I am the photo editor for Reuters for North America. I have gotten a couple of referrals and found you through UPJ and would like to know if you could cover an assignment for us." |
| 15:56.40 | macnewbold | sweet |
| 15:56.47 | macnewbold | your pics are awesome youtah |
| 15:56.57 | youtah | macnewbold it seems like a really nice radio. I have listened to conversations (haven't talked, other than 3rd party when my friends [who have their license] are with me). |
| 15:57.02 | youtah | so I can't really say too much |
| 15:57.10 | mahelious | i guess it only makes sense that radios would get more compact over the years, but i still think of them as http://www.mortaljourney.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/CBRadio.png |
| 15:57.41 | youtah | exactly |
| 15:57.42 | mahelious | a handheld may be better in most ways, but it loses all the charm. |
| 15:58.13 | youtah | yeah but HT's can only take you so fart |
| 15:58.16 | youtah | far |
| 15:58.18 | youtah | lol |
| 16:06.01 | youtah | have you guys see the remote control big foots? |
| 16:08.07 | goozbach | because it came up again today: |
| 16:08.10 | goozbach | ip link add dev eth1a link eth1 type macvlan |
| 16:08.44 | youtah | Did you guys hear about mac users being redirected to more expensive travel results? |
| 16:08.45 | youtah | awesome |
| 16:08.49 | youtah | I approve |
| 16:09.36 | youtah | and i most definately approve of the "charging ie users a fee" during check out |
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| 16:11.28 | tedp | yeah i thought this was good coverage of it: http://arstechnica.com/staff/2012/06/orbitz-to-mac-users-give-us-the-money/ |
| 16:11.57 | youtah | I am totally fine with it |
| 16:12.03 | youtah | especially the IE "tax" lol |
| 16:12.39 | youtah | and all the people on twitter that said they were being charged more... are retards |
| 16:12.51 | youtah | the other, cheaper options were still there. |
| 16:13.40 | tedp | i'm all for targeted advertising. if i usually choose 3-5 star hotels, then i'll be glad to avoid having to scroll past 1-2 star results |
| 16:14.04 | youtah | ~tedp++ |
| 16:14.20 | tedp | (hey orbitz, what's the demographic of linux users?) |
| 16:14.26 | youtah | ROFL |
| 16:15.03 | tedp | i think i'm done with discount travel sites though since getting a *really* shitty room via htwire |
| 16:15.29 | youtah | I've been using Travelocity for a while |
| 16:15.33 | youtah | I have liked them the most |
| 16:15.46 | youtah | but you definitely have to play their system. |
| 16:16.04 | programmerq | just ordered a yaesu ft-60r |
| 16:16.06 | tedp | i think i lost the gamble last time because i booked about 5 hours before arrival |
| 16:16.09 | mahelious | the winamp article making the rounds is interesting. i know its been stuck at v5.x for almost 10 years, but i still think it rivals most of whats out there quite handily. |
| 16:16.10 | programmerq | I also bought a fire safe last night |
| 16:16.23 | programmerq | the fire happening so close to home was a little bit of a wakeup call to get some things in order |
| 16:16.25 | youtah | Nice programmerq |
| 16:16.26 | Jayce^ | I still love the old xmms :) |
| 16:16.38 | tedp | winamp 2.97 for life. |
| 16:16.45 | programmerq | we're also going to try to put together some grab-n-go 72-hour type stuff |
| 16:16.48 | youtah | Oh, and programmerq, take photos of EVERYTHING in your house to document what you have |
| 16:16.49 | neybar | cause the llama rules |
| 16:16.57 | youtah | then burn to a disc and save in a remote location |
| 16:17.14 | programmerq | yeah, it's nice having a VPS out of state for that reason |
| 16:17.18 | youtah | that poor llama, gets kicked all the time |
| 16:17.20 | Jayce^ | programmerq: good idea, was sad seeing how many people had *nothing* ready |
| 16:17.43 | programmerq | I might try to set up some stuff at parents house for things like that |
| 16:17.47 | youtah | all I need to grab is my PC |
| 16:17.48 | mahelious | youtah: a picture may be worth 1000 words, but a video is worth 29,970 per second :) |
| 16:18.00 | youtah | lol |
| 16:18.02 | Jayce^ | ~mahelious++ |
| 16:18.19 | programmerq | probably a good idea to take a video of everything every six months |
| 16:18.46 | programmerq | though photos have a smaller storage requirement, of course. |
| 16:18.50 | mahelious | i just need my nas and a change of clothes. but im leaning towards putting together a proper 72-hour kit before the end of the summer. |
| 16:19.03 | programmerq | needs a nas still |
| 16:19.07 | programmerq | I want to get a drobofs |
| 16:19.10 | programmerq | I have the drives for it |
| 16:19.19 | programmerq | just sitting |
| 16:19.19 | youtah | I keep a bag of clothing, food and water in all our cars |
| 16:19.19 | programmerq | got them cheap a while back |
| 16:19.25 | programmerq | we at least have water in both our cars |
| 16:19.31 | programmerq | and at least a blanket and a hoodie |
| 16:19.43 | programmerq | but that was more thinking about getting stuck in blizzard conditions |
| 16:20.10 | programmerq | I also suggested to my wife that she get a ham radio license (and radio) |
| 16:20.26 | programmerq | cause then we could at lest talk on simplex if cell towers are out. |
| 16:21.04 | programmerq | and, I don't know what the power supplies to the various repeaters are like, or if the groups that run them have generators. |
| 16:21.21 | neybar | programmerq: check out synology too. I was looking at both and ended up with the a synology and have really liked it so far. |
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| 16:23.00 | ekimatuan | On "This Old House" a number of years ago, the season was used to rebuild one of the show's staff member's home. It had burned down in a fire shortly after a full remodel. Fortunately, they had recently taken a video of every room to show an out of state friend the house after the remodel. That video helped them get proper restitution from their insurance company. |
| 16:23.40 | programmerq | neybar: looks like synology's stuff that's comparable to the drobofs is a littlemore expensive than the drobofs. |
| 16:23.58 | youtah | http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150875729425060&set=a.10150841975405060.396574.166311805059&type=1&theater << Eagle mountain at night |
| 16:24.31 | eightyeight | 'This content is currently unavailable' |
| 16:24.47 | youtah | sorry, it requires you to be logged into FB |
| 16:24.47 | Jayce^ | programmerq: go to your ares or other club and you'll learn about them. |
| 16:24.50 | neybar | yeah, you get a little more flexibility. Basically just linux under the hood. |
| 16:24.54 | youtah | one sec.... |
| 16:25.06 | eightyeight | i don't have a FB account |
| 16:25.21 | Jayce^ | some groups had to fall back to simplex because the fire took out the power, and not all batteries or gennies were up to snuff |
| 16:25.39 | youtah | here we go http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/277252_10150875729425060_695259591_o.jpg |
| 16:25.42 | Jayce^ | the tooele guys were set to bring out a mobile repeater trailer they have, so cool |
| 16:25.51 | eightyeight | ah, nice |
| 16:26.04 | Jayce^ | youtah: that was city center side? |
| 16:26.15 | youtah | yeah over by Eagle Mountain |
| 16:26.15 | mahelious | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822122062 |
| 16:26.30 | Jayce^ | yeah, friday night that got *freaky* |
| 16:26.51 | Jayce^ | eightyeight: you should have joined in on the repeaters |
| 16:26.51 | youtah | I titled it "Satans Ski Slope" |
| 16:27.17 | eightyeight | Jayce^: last night? i was at a family function, and didn't have my radio with me |
| 16:27.21 | mahelious | i looked at drobo, synology, qnap (which all had some really compelling choices) but ended up with the netgear readynas. havent regretted the decision yet. |
| 16:27.25 | eightyeight | i need to be better at just carrying it around |
| 16:27.26 | Jayce^ | no, Friday or Saturday |
| 16:27.35 | Jayce^ | when the fire was going |
| 16:27.38 | eightyeight | oh |
| 16:27.48 | eightyeight | yeah. family functions then too, heh. |
| 16:28.12 | eightyeight | i think my wife hates me, because i get dragged around to all these, and never get the time to do "fun" stuff. :) |
| 16:28.28 | Jayce^ | yeah, neybar and I were joking about that |
| 16:28.34 | Jayce^ | as bad/dangerous/etc as the fire was |
| 16:28.46 | Jayce^ | it was still really exciting to be using the stuff we'd been learning |
| 16:28.57 | eightyeight | yeah. i'm really jealous actually |
| 16:29.03 | Jayce^ | kinda like that dopamine rush before the pain sets in :) |
| 16:29.09 | eightyeight | an actual emergency, and i'm getting my picture taken by rocks |
| 16:29.13 | programmerq | looking at the ucares pagers archives, it looks like there are callouts 1-2 times per year |
| 16:29.22 | Jayce^ | we had people from all over the area helping out |
| 16:29.28 | eightyeight | that's awesome |
| 16:29.34 | Jayce^ | ares guys driving from all over the state to man radio stations |
| 16:29.53 | Jayce^ | programmerq: if you join the SAR teams you get lots more than that |
| 16:29.58 | programmerq | wish I'd have gotten my radio out of the box and figured all that out sooner than I did. |
| 16:30.01 | programmerq | Jayce^: I bet |
| 16:30.26 | programmerq | sar actually sounds like a great thing to do |
| 16:30.36 | ekimatuan | Big time commitment though. |
| 16:31.08 | programmerq | it'd be fun to combine my interests and do ham radio+model aircraft with video equipment to assist in SAR |
| 16:31.32 | ekimatuan | Lots and lots of training exercises so you are prepared when an actual emergency call out happens |
| 16:31.37 | programmerq | I bet |
| 16:31.41 | ekimatuan | That would be neat |
| 16:31.51 | programmerq | I'd have to look into the actual time commitment for the trainings |
| 16:32.09 | programmerq | depending on what they are, maybe it'll help me get some exercise too |
| 16:32.16 | eightyeight | there are field days, meetings, nets, etc that can get you fairly prepped |
| 16:32.29 | eightyeight | quite regularly for an hour or two each time |
| 16:32.35 | programmerq | I'm sure they're used to their volunteers having a day job though |
| 16:33.07 | Jayce^ | yeah, you have to meet a certain # or % of callouts when you are on the team |
| 16:34.54 | saturdayplace | 1 hour power outage here. |
| 16:35.24 | saturdayplace | Apparently we need to put our internet-facing routers on the generator's circuit. |
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| 16:45.12 | youtah | yeah I would have loved to participate in the net |
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| 17:04.50 | programmerq | my kid is probably old enough that we need to start talking about emergency preparedness stuff with him. mostly our phone numbers |
| 17:04.52 | programmerq | (he's 2) |
| 17:05.03 | programmerq | he was picking up my callsighn though after this weekend |
| 17:05.16 | programmerq | he was going around the house "papa, india, charlie!" |
| 17:06.19 | eightyeight | heh |
| 17:06.45 | eightyeight | my daughter knows our phone, address, and both of our first names. she'll be 5 on halloween |
| 17:06.58 | eightyeight | she doesn't know my callsign though |
| 17:07.03 | eightyeight | i should work on that. :) |
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| 17:14.42 | programmerq | looks like ucah county sherif search and rescue volunteers are expected to attend at least 30% of the 100-or-so callouts each year |
| 17:27.56 | Migs | http://weknowwhatyouredoing.com/ |
| 17:29.54 | programmerq | that's amusing. |
| 17:30.05 | youtah | I <3 Bash |
| 17:30.18 | youtah | so powerful for such simple, little tasks |
| 17:30.25 | youtah | makes life so much easier |
| 17:31.48 | youtah | Good thing I do not hate my boss, drink alcohol, take drugs or change my phone number. |
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| 17:35.56 | Migs | if you did, would you Facebook-status-update it? |
| 17:36.09 | youtah | not publicly |
| 17:36.12 | youtah | well, no |
| 17:36.14 | youtah | not even then |
| 17:36.23 | youtah | possibly the phone number |
| 17:36.32 | youtah | but at the same time, my phone number is already publicly available |
| 17:38.08 | Migs | yeah |
| 17:38.16 | Migs | I keep my Facebook profile public |
| 17:38.22 | Migs | by choice, incidentally |
| 17:39.06 | Migs | I haven't posted my phone number on there, but I wouldn't be against it |
| 17:39.26 | youtah | Also, it's my Google Voice number |
| 17:39.39 | Migs | oh, maybe I should do that |
| 17:39.48 | Migs | I never answer it, but people can at least leave me messages |
| 17:39.57 | youtah | it's the number I use for clients to contact me |
| 17:40.15 | youtah | So I definitely want my # to be available. |
| 17:40.19 | Migs | I do get some professional colleagues who find me via Facebook, so I do want to keep it open. |
| 17:40.35 | youtah | exactly |
| 18:00.31 | youtah | http://imgur.com/gallery/TnEUe |
| 18:02.12 | youtah | http://imgur.com/gallery/Jvb33 |
| 18:06.37 | Migs | I don't get that last one |
| 18:11.51 | Migs | http://imgur.com/gallery/v97Wa |
| 18:13.17 | youtah | OMGosh that is disgusting... http://imgur.com/gallery/9iGxE |
| 18:14.27 | youtah | This one is still a classic. Repost but classic http://i.imgur.com/BdEQd.jpg |
| 18:14.39 | pashdown | i call shenanigans! |
| 18:16.54 | youtah | sorry pashdown... migs started it |
| 18:21.35 | *** join/#utah jessie (~jessie@64.55.47.131) |
| 18:24.57 | pashdown | you know what i hate? progress bars that aren't representative of the true time it takes to complete a task. progress bars that stall out for more than 2 seconds 99% filled. apple is one of the worst offenders with this. |
| 18:25.46 | pashdown | last night i was transfering between two macs and it said "less than a minute" for roughly 45 minutes |
| 18:26.14 | pashdown | i want government regulation of progress bars |
| 18:26.28 | programmerq | just opens the terminal on osx and uses cp or scp like he does on linux |
| 18:26.49 | youtah | you know what would make you feel better pashdown... joining me on an adventure http://imgur.com/gallery/TnEUe |
| 18:26.57 | pashdown | unfortunately updating ios doesn't allow me to scp it in :( |
| 18:27.23 | pdayton | What sort of penalty should be imposed for a violation of progress bar regulation? |
| 18:27.32 | pashdown | castration |
| 18:30.02 | youtah | I'm thinking along the lines of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwVJ9nF8wAM#t=2m48s |
| 18:31.19 | youtah | you only need to watch until about 4minutes |
| 18:37.22 | youtah | Good crap. I have gotten like 15 invites to get free tickets to Disneyland from people. http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/nothing/disneyland.asp |
| 18:41.24 | mahelious | solved google-a-day in four seconds. hah |
| 18:42.25 | youtah | annnnnnd anothe rfire |
| 18:42.37 | youtah | Church Camp Fire, 100 acres, 0% contained |
| 18:46.56 | youtah | The right rights can right you right to the right right. Also known as 3 lefts. |
| 18:47.14 | youtah | because if left is right then right is wrong, right? |
| 19:28.50 | Migs | http://cheezcomixed.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/koma-comic-strip-im-sorry-who-is-this1.jpg |
| 19:55.52 | *** join/#utah bgerber (~gerberb@suse103.zenez.com) |
| 19:57.26 | programmerq | has one of the explorer post antennas now |
| 19:59.53 | Jayce^ | where'd you get it? |
| 20:02.33 | programmerq | Jayce^: http://lists.ucares.org/pipermail/ucares/2012-June/005860.html |
| 20:02.57 | programmerq | he'll have some tonight at the freedom festival parade sync up at BYU |
| 20:03.05 | programmerq | but he expects to run out by then |
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| 20:20.16 | romanovic | http://cheezcomixed.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/koma-comic-strip-im-sorry-who-is-this1.jpg |
| 20:20.27 | romanovic | sorry, attempting to repost elsewhere |
| 20:26.34 | Migs | It's okay. Just don't let it happen again. |
| 20:26.39 | Migs | OR ELSE. |
| 20:30.02 | *** join/#utah supaplex (~supaplex@c-76-102-172-229.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:43.32 | Jayce^ | ahh |
| 20:50.59 | supaplex | choo |
| 20:55.25 | Migs | choo soul |
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| 21:40.44 | youtah | Field in my neighborhood is on fire |
| 21:41.19 | youtah | https://twitter.com/youtah/status/217723553271910400 |
| 21:41.47 | Gate | act #1: share it on all forms of social media possible |
| 21:42.06 | Supaplex | needs more thermite |
| 21:45.57 | youtah | Gate: already done |
| 21:46.15 | youtah | Supaplex: Absolutely |
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| 21:50.06 | Migs | grab a bucket of water |
| 21:50.22 | youtah | too late |
| 21:50.25 | youtah | they're all dead Jim |
| 21:52.20 | Supaplex | water vs thermite. hummmmmm |
| 22:04.32 | youtah | http://utahphotojournalism.com/2012/06/crestwood-park-fire-happening-now/ |
| 22:04.41 | youtah | Took a few pix, since it was literally down the street |
| 22:04.43 | youtah | Left |
| 22:04.48 | youtah | it looked like they had it under control |
| 22:06.06 | eightyeight | 9/11 truthers: fact or fiction? |
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| 22:07.53 | *** join/#utah tristanbob (~Tristan@oalug/member/tristanbob) |
| 22:07.56 | youtah | huh? |
| 22:09.45 | Supaplex | both |
| 22:10.29 | youtah | I'm trying to figure out what the crap "9/11 truthers" means |
| 22:14.15 | stderr | It's a term made up by a teenager who was making a fictional movie about 9/11 being a conspiracy, who was then approached by some conspiracy theorist whackjobs and suddenly had an epiphany that the movie he was making was actually factual. |
| 22:14.31 | stderr | So, yea, 9/11 truth movement? Fiction. |
| 22:14.37 | youtah | Uh |
| 22:16.49 | stderr | Seriously, Loose Change (the impetus behind the "9/11 Truther" congregation) was begun as a fictional movie by Dylan Avery. When the only backers he got were insane conspiracy theorists who thought it was true, he changed it to a "documentary". |
| 22:18.50 | stderr | Loose Change is literally the dumbest thing I've ever seen on a television or computer screen, and I've sat through 20 minutes of Dumb and Dumberer, and once saw a clip from the Jersey Shore. |
| 22:18.54 | youtah | Uhg |
| 22:25.33 | eightyeight | heh |
| 22:27.59 | stderr | You asked for opinions. It's almost Icke-esque with how horrible of a conspiracy theory it is. I have no patience for the 9/11 truther movement, it's completely devoid of rational thought. |
| 22:29.40 | stderr | People want to believe it because, in the end, it's a lot scarier to think that a handful of determined Saudi radicals could orchestrate something so devastating. They have to rationalize their fear by coming up with insane, shadowy theories about a conspiracy that's as big as the effect it had on our country. |
| 22:30.14 | Supaplex | let me help, it's time to play Charlie The Unicorn! |
| 22:30.21 | eightyeight | heh |
| 22:30.30 | eightyeight | i'm in a lengthy email discussion with a friend about it |
| 22:30.42 | eightyeight | curious what others thought about the 9/11 truthers |
| 22:30.52 | eightyeight | and "debunking the debunkers" |
| 22:31.08 | stderr | there's one sentence that essentially ends an argument with a truther. |
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| 22:33.21 | eightyeight | which is? |
| 22:33.27 | eightyeight | "prove it"? |
| 22:34.40 | stderr | If the United States government is so stunningly competent and cunning enough to orchestrate one of the largest conspiracies of all time, involving thousands of military, civilian, and foreign co-conspirators, then why couldn't they plant ONE gram of VX, sarin, or anthrax in Iraq as a pretense or justification to the invasion? |
| 22:35.27 | Gate | stderr: to which (and this argument has been made to me) they would reply: the DID find it, they just hid it. |
| 22:37.07 | stderr | Which would make no sense in light of a country so obsessed with gaining popular support that it would fire a cruise missile into it's own national military command center, and use demolitions to destroy buildings that were close to the heart of its economic prowess. |
| 22:37.38 | Supaplex | I'm hoping for something like iotop, but I don't want to see all the 0kb/s threads, and I'd like a print out every 5 seconds w/o clearing the screen (scroll it instead). Is there anything like that around? |
| 22:38.06 | Gate | stderr: "make no sense".... You do know the kind of people you are talking about, right? |
| 22:39.46 | stderr | Supaplex: dstat? |
| 22:39.49 | stderr | Gate: well, of course. |
| 22:41.34 | Supaplex | well I'll be, it took long enough for the man page to fire up. (slow embeded box) |
| 22:50.27 | Gate | stderr: the problem is that when using logic to attack an irrational belief the belief always seems to just get more convoluted and irrational, and the believer keeps beliveing because they want to. |
| 22:50.40 | levi | stderr: There is no fact so plainly true (or false, for that matter) that a conspiracy theorist can't find some sort of twisty knotted justification for believing the opposite. |
| 22:50.41 | Gate | I prefer eightyeight's approach, that of the skeptic: prove it. |
| 22:51.09 | levi | That's just an invitation to hear a load of futile attempts to do so. |
| 22:54.37 | stderr | levi: oh, I agree. There's nothing as frustrating as someone who is abusing facts to fit their own predetermined outcome. |
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