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| 15:05.02 | *** topic/#utah is logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | Have you hugged your sysadmin today? |
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| 16:19.07 | klys | ~quote mu |
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| 16:21.15 | klys | so, kim27, |
| 16:23.44 | kim27 | kyls, yes? |
| 16:23.49 | kim27 | klys, yes? |
| 16:23.59 | klys | do you live in utah? |
| 16:24.06 | kim27 | klys, yes |
| 16:24.09 | klys | provo? |
| 16:24.58 | kim27 | klys, in the provo area |
| 16:25.19 | klys | do you want to go to Steak Night on friday? |
| 16:25.57 | klys | ...thursday |
| 16:26.19 | kim27 | um, I have to watch my kids |
| 16:26.21 | klys | it's thursday around 8pm |
| 16:26.27 | klys | ok |
| 16:27.06 | klys | are you running debian or what? |
| 16:27.21 | fozzmoo | pashdown: Bummer about Saturday. |
| 16:28.04 | kim27 | klys, I'm running Centos, linux-mint, and fedora. |
| 16:28.12 | fozzmoo | kim27: \o/ |
| 16:28.35 | klys | does linux mint use dpkg ? |
| 16:28.47 | kim27 | klys in is based off of ubuntu |
| 16:28.59 | fozzmoo | Linux Mint is a Linux-based computer operating system designed for usability and ease of installation, particularly for users with no previous Linux experience.[1][2] It is available in several editions with different codebases, nearly all of which are based on Ubuntu,[3] which is itself based on Debian. |
| 16:29.06 | fozzmoo | (paste from Wikipedia) |
| 16:29.32 | klys | what was the last thing you apt-get installed? |
| 16:29.39 | fozzmoo | Do you use Mint for server or desktop? |
| 16:30.38 | pashdown | thanks fozz |
| 16:31.10 | klys | hey wasn't there an ashdown java or something before...blackdown |
| 16:31.22 | pashdown | the bright spot is that i am leaving something i find really distasteful and going back to what i love |
| 16:31.43 | fozzmoo | pashdown: Politics can eat at your soul, can't it? |
| 16:31.48 | pashdown | yeah |
| 16:32.15 | fozzmoo | pashdown: My dad always lost a lot of weight during campaigns and was relieved when they were over, regardless of the win or loss. |
| 16:32.19 | pashdown | especially when you own party deep sixes you based on a principaled stand |
| 16:32.50 | fozzmoo | The GOP's having problems with principles this year too. |
| 16:32.59 | jsmith | isn't surprised |
| 16:33.11 | fozzmoo | Hence the rhetoric about "radical libertarians" from Hatch. |
| 16:33.20 | pashdown | lovely |
| 16:33.30 | jsmith | fozzmoo: He got it wrong... we're the "radical moderates" |
| 16:33.40 | klys | Hatch itroduced the DMCA. |
| 16:33.40 | fozzmoo | jsmith: heh. |
| 16:33.51 | pashdown | i wonder how he'll vote on cispa |
| 16:33.56 | pashdown | *sarcasm* |
| 16:34.14 | jsmith | fozzmoo: Although... if weight loss is a side-effect of running for office, that alone should induce me to run for some office :-p |
| 16:34.20 | fozzmoo | Yep. Dan Liljenquist said it well on Saturday. Something like "You can't hold a balanced budget amendment in one hand and pass legislation in the other hand that makes it impossible to balance the budget." |
| 16:35.01 | klys | Is that what Romney is doing? |
| 16:35.33 | fozzmoo | klys: No, that pretty much describes Orrin Hatch. |
| 16:36.24 | klys | The last time I saw Hatch on the budget, he was criticizing democrats with a political cartoon. |
| 16:36.48 | fozzmoo | I'm disappointed my guy (Chris Herrod) didn't do better, but I'll get behind Dan Liljenquist. I need to talk to my wife about how much money I can pony up. :) |
| 16:37.03 | Migs | I'm so tired of Hatch |
| 16:37.15 | Migs | But I'm afraid he's going to be a permanent fixture for awhile longer |
| 16:37.40 | fozzmoo | I don't know. Half of his supporters could realistically die before the Primary. ;-) |
| 16:38.03 | fozzmoo | (of natural age-related causes.) |
| 16:38.16 | Migs | um |
| 16:38.20 | Migs | what were you afraid people would interpret that as? |
| 16:38.59 | manithree | fozzmoo: It was certainly the gray heads supporting Hatch at my precinct meeting. |
| 16:39.29 | mahelious | they have a lot invested in him at this point |
| 16:39.39 | fozzmoo | Migs: Oh, just trying to keep Echelon off my back. :) |
| 16:40.26 | fozzmoo | I didn't realize it, but I guess Hatch's people have managed to rally state employees against Liljenquist over his medicaid reform legislation. |
| 16:40.35 | fozzmoo | Again, principles are on the ropes. |
| 16:40.53 | klys | really? reform? |
| 16:41.08 | fozzmoo | The party of limited government can't stomach smaller government. :) |
| 16:42.23 | kim27 | klys, I use it for my email and general web browsing |
| 16:42.40 | klys | do you use the apt-get interface? |
| 16:42.55 | Jayce^ | klys: liljenquist made a big splash as a state rep for his reform bills |
| 16:42.58 | kim27 | kyls not very often, but I have before. I think yum is a lot better than apt-get |
| 16:43.47 | klys | are you running fedora right now? |
| 16:43.58 | fozzmoo | raises his hand |
| 16:44.26 | kim27 | klys, not at this very moment |
| 16:44.38 | klys | linux mint? |
| 16:45.04 | fozzmoo | I'm looking forward to the Beefy Miracle. |
| 16:45.06 | fozzmoo | http://is.gd/9GZxsa |
| 16:46.19 | kim27 | klys, linux mint and centos at this very moment |
| 16:46.19 | fozzmoo | (I don't care much about all the GNOME-related news, though, as I'm not a GNOME user.) |
| 16:46.33 | klys | so you have two of them |
| 16:46.38 | klys | gnome or KDE ? |
| 16:46.52 | kim27 | gnome, but not unity with ubuntu |
| 16:47.23 | klys | do you use Nautilus for file browsing or something else like thunar? |
| 16:47.33 | kim27 | kyls, terminal |
| 16:48.27 | kim27 | thinks that gui browsing is overratd |
| 16:48.31 | klys | That's some pretty fancy stoph you're doing there |
| 16:48.57 | klys | ever try aterm ? |
| 16:49.43 | kim27 | klys, nope |
| 16:49.51 | kim27 | klys, ever use cluster ssh? |
| 16:50.16 | klys | last time I tried ssh I had two computers |
| 16:50.29 | klys | since then those computers were stolen. |
| 16:51.13 | kim27 | klys has zero computers....is in aww that he is still connected to irc |
| 16:51.34 | klys | I had UUCP working properly then |
| 16:51.58 | klys | http://freecode.net/projects/hmce (patches are in the mailinglist) |
| 16:52.31 | klys | how about, do you use screen ? |
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| 16:52.51 | kim27 | screen is good |
| 16:53.20 | klys | Yeah I like it except when I can't get a controlling terminal in c++ |
| 16:54.49 | klys | do you ever use gcc ? |
| 16:56.44 | kim27 | klys, yes do you ever use gdb? |
| 16:56.57 | klys | I use runtime debugging |
| 16:57.17 | kim27 | steps away to do some important things. |
| 16:57.20 | klys | I tried gdb and had to reboot because of the keyboard handling |
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| 17:54.58 | jessie | I love gdb |
| 18:01.23 | fugue88 | ~gdb++ |
| 18:10.55 | fungus | In RHEL,CentOS,OEL, what is the best practice for a basic server install when concerned with software packages. WTF is GNOME installed by default!? |
| 18:11.30 | fungus | version 5 more specifically |
| 18:11.32 | goozbach | fungus: how are you doing the install? |
| 18:11.40 | goozbach | automated with a kicstart? |
| 18:11.41 | jsmith | -ENEEDMOREINFO |
| 18:11.45 | fungus | hehe |
| 18:11.53 | goozbach | manually using categories/types of installs? |
| 18:11.53 | fungus | Just disk install. Building a template |
| 18:12.13 | goozbach | I always do a kickstart with this in %packages |
| 18:12.15 | goozbach | @core |
| 18:12.18 | goozbach | @base |
| 18:12.20 | goozbach | git |
| 18:12.22 | goozbach | puppet |
| 18:12.41 | fungus | that's all I need? Nice! |
| 18:12.43 | fozzmoo | No system-tools? |
| 18:12.44 | goozbach | and anything *OUTSIDE* of that, gets put together via my puppet server |
| 18:12.51 | fozzmoo | oh. okay. |
| 18:13.02 | goozbach | fozzmoo: that's my "template" most of the time |
| 18:13.31 | goozbach | cobbler does just that, and then puppet makes it into a 'web server' or 'database server' or whatever |
| 18:13.52 | fozzmoo | Can't cobbler do that as well? |
| 18:14.11 | fozzmoo | Or do you just find it easier to let puppet do it? |
| 18:14.13 | fungus | What packages do puppet install that you feel should be common amongst all servers? |
| 18:14.40 | fozzmoo | deems it time for more allergy nasal spray. |
| 18:15.07 | goozbach | fungus: it really depends |
| 18:15.22 | goozbach | fozzmoo: if I'm gonna be using puppet or something like unto it |
| 18:15.29 | fungus | I know. I'm just curious about how you experts work? |
| 18:15.32 | goozbach | I want it to have control on which type of server it becomes |
| 18:15.40 | fungus | This is quite new since i'm a deb/ubuntu guy. |
| 18:15.49 | goozbach | if i'm not going to use a config management system, yes I have cobbler do that logic |
| 18:15.52 | fozzmoo | is a puppet-idiot. |
| 18:16.15 | goozbach | drives home |
| 18:50.39 | klys | Has anyone tried to compile gcc? |
| 18:51.34 | fugue88 | klys: Frequently. Gentoo user. |
| 18:51.43 | fugue88 | Frequently means about once a year. |
| 18:52.16 | fugue88 | Maybe twice. |
| 18:52.19 | fugue88 | per year. |
| 19:01.46 | klys | ko I just asked in #debian and no one has |
| 19:02.30 | klys | there was someone who compiled gcc, but it wasn't debian sources |
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| 19:56.46 | programmerq | is trying to figure out how much time to take off work for the utosc |
| 19:57.09 | programmerq | I was hoping to only have to take one day, but I don't think that'll happen if I go to everything I want to. |
| 19:58.49 | jsmith | programmerq: Convince your boss that it'll make you a more valuable employee -- and that you're willing to take one day off if he/she gives you a comp day :-) |
| 20:02.17 | Jayce^ | true 'dat |
| 20:02.44 | programmerq | shrugs |
| 20:12.57 | fozzmoo | I'm going. I don't care what it does to me. :-) |
| 20:25.17 | programmerq | worst case I guess would be that I just go to work really early both days and work from 6am to 10am |
| 20:25.20 | programmerq | shrugs |
| 21:43.07 | kendsnyder | Question: I have an app that sends email on behalf of users. In other words, we put the user's email address in the From header when our app sends out an email. One of the user's email address is soandso@icrossing.com. We talked to the network admin at iCrossing, and he says that they are using Postini and have it configured to reject outside emails that appear to be from something@icrossing.com. Is that kind of restriction common? |
| 21:43.29 | programmerq | it is somewhat common, yes |
| 21:43.49 | programmerq | usually domainkeys or something similar |
| 21:44.13 | programmerq | but that should be configurable within postini |
| 21:45.03 | kendsnyder | so if they use domainkeys, can they whitelist our smtp server? |
| 21:46.45 | programmerq | they may be able to whitelist your server, but it's been a long time since I've dealt with the postini control panel. |
| 21:47.13 | kendsnyder | ok. the network admin said he couldn't (or perhaps wouldn't) |
| 21:47.17 | programmerq | I'd guess that if they had the option, that it would be on or off for domainkeys. |
| 21:48.14 | kendsnyder | so what is an app to do? We have been sending email from server@ourapp.com and our users are getting really confused. Some never read the emails because they don't recognize the sender. |
| 21:48.37 | programmerq | you could template it |
| 21:48.43 | programmerq | make it pop up in their default mail client |
| 21:48.49 | programmerq | and let them send it that way |
| 21:48.54 | programmerq | I've seen that approach sometimes |
| 21:49.03 | programmerq | but honestly as a user, I'm annoyed by those |
| 21:49.13 | kendsnyder | would that work with a complex html email? |
| 21:49.20 | programmerq | probably not |
| 21:49.37 | kendsnyder | You're annoyed with servers appearing to send from someone else? |
| 21:49.43 | programmerq | no |
| 21:50.04 | programmerq | when I click on a "share this" button and it brings up a mail client and auto-populates fields for me, I find that annoying. |
| 21:50.10 | macnewbold | me too |
| 21:50.27 | kendsnyder | It seems the best we can do is to send it from "User Name" <server@ourapp.com>. Are there any other approaches? |
| 21:50.52 | programmerq | you could give the user a choice as to how they want to send it |
| 21:51.11 | programmerq | maybe get a database of domains where sending as another email address isn't allowed |
| 21:51.37 | kendsnyder | The downside to that is if someone adds server@ourapp.com to their email address book and "User2 Name" sends a second email, the address book will override and show "User Name" instead of "User2 Name" |
| 21:52.16 | kendsnyder | That is an option: to have each client send a test email when we sign them up. If the email isn't rejected, send from the user's email address |
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| 21:54.47 | programmerq | part of the problem is this: |
| 21:55.55 | programmerq | if xyz.com utilizes domainkeys or whatever, (SPF would also come up too), and example.com enforces foreign SPF or domainkeys policies, then sending from xyz.com to example.com may fail, but from xyz.com to gmail.com may not. |
| 21:56.16 | programmerq | fortunately, you can look up various domains SPF policies ahead of time and see what the policy would be for your server |
| 21:56.49 | programmerq | when I worked at bluehost, the default SPF policy was to explicitly allow from the customer's server, and then for everything else it was neutral (niether pass nor fail) |
| 22:00.35 | programmerq | forgot that postini was bought by google. |
| 22:02.26 | kendsnyder | ok. so I'm looking at this spf lookup tool: http://www.mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=spf%3aicrossing.com How do I interpret what that means |
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| 22:03.20 | programmerq | kendsnyder: take your hostname, and see if it matches any patterns starting at the top (it won't), and then the final pattern is the catch-all |
| 22:03.33 | programmerq | soft-fail means that your server isn't supposed to originate messages for icrossing.com |
| 22:03.44 | programmerq | but other mail servers aren't supposed to throw them away |
| 22:03.51 | programmerq | where a hard fail, I believe mailservers can |
| 22:03.56 | programmerq | actually reject the message. |
| 22:04.23 | programmerq | but a soft fail, it's unclear, it could mean "do nothing", or put it in a spam box, or bump the likelihood that it's spam |
| 22:04.40 | programmerq | on my personal email server, I don't enforce spf at the mailserver level, but let spamassassin deal with it. |
| 22:04.42 | kendsnyder | ok. so i can't tell for sure from the spf |
| 22:04.54 | programmerq | if you were neutral, then you should be good |
| 22:05.00 | programmerq | but softfail is something you don't want to be |
| 22:05.04 | programmerq | not really anyway. |
| 22:05.18 | kendsnyder | that is really helpful |
| 22:05.33 | programmerq | but if the dkim/domainkeys policies say that it must be signed, you won't be able to sign it properly of course. |
| 22:06.06 | programmerq | I don't remember how those policies work so much |
| 22:06.26 | programmerq | I do know that since I don't have domainkeys set up on my personal mailserver, and I sign nothing, that yahoo users never see my email |
| 22:06.30 | kendsnyder | what a pain. i was hoping there was an easy answer :) |
| 22:06.31 | programmerq | yahoo just silently eats it |
| 22:06.37 | programmerq | not even spam box |
| 22:06.44 | kendsnyder | yah, icrossing silently eats it too |
| 22:06.46 | programmerq | there is no easy answer when it comes to email |
| 22:07.21 | kendsnyder | as i recall, the network admin didn't even have our email in some kind of spam folder, it was just lost |
| 22:07.23 | programmerq | mostly because there are so many networks that implement weird policies trying to reduce the constant inflow of spam... |
| 22:07.52 | programmerq | another bluehost policy was that the sending domain MUST have an A record, or it rejects it because the "domain doesn't exist" |
| 22:07.59 | programmerq | even with a valid MX record, it still fails. |
| 22:08.18 | programmerq | shrugs |
| 22:08.28 | kendsnyder | thanks for your help! |
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