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| 01:54.52 | eightyeight | so, i've come to the determination that linux nfs sucks |
| 01:55.11 | eightyeight | solaris nfs, on the other hand, does not |
| 01:55.40 | eightyeight | or, the solaris server is lying to me about 'sync' |
| 01:56.04 | eightyeight | if that's the case, they both suck |
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| 17:52.44 | programmerq | wonders if avahi could be used to aid in cloud services |
| 17:53.12 | programmerq | it might end up being a trainwreck in practice, but it is an interesting concept |
| 17:53.19 | jima | seems like it has the potential to do so |
| 17:53.39 | programmerq | might make for a good blog post at the very least |
| 17:53.51 | jima | possibly a well-flamed one! |
| 17:53.51 | jsmith | programmerq: Depends... it certainly *could*, but like anything else it depends on the implementation |
| 17:55.12 | sjansen | libvirt has mdns support, several cloud management stacks are based on libvirt, ergo it wouldn't surprise me to find out there's already stacks using mdns |
| 17:55.44 | programmerq | interesting |
| 17:56.39 | programmerq | that could definitely be useful. I was thinking more along the lines of appservers advertise themselves and then load balancers pick them up automatically. |
| 17:56.42 | jsmith | sjansen: The question is... mdns support for *what*? |
| 17:57.27 | programmerq | or maybe even memcached servers advertising themselves (hopefully that wouldn't change terribly often...) |
| 17:57.43 | sjansen | Kickstart a system. After boot, it finds a controller. They have a chat. The controller starts migrating VMs onto the new box. |
| 17:57.45 | sjansen | Just a theory. |
| 17:58.39 | programmerq | the trick is definitely writing the code that reacts to the mdns advertisements, and gets the system to do something useful and graceful with changes |
| 17:58.43 | sjansen | http://virt-manager.org/page/LibvirtDiscovery |
| 17:58.56 | jima | with vlans properly managed, it wouldn't be terribly insecure. |
| 17:59.17 | sjansen | Okay, I'm curious enough I did a quick google. Looke like it's the reverse. Controller notices new box. Start migrating VMs onto it. |
| 17:59.56 | jima | yeah, and it seems like if you're doing kickstart, you might as well add the scripting to add the vm host to that |
| 18:01.50 | sjansen | Discovery just means your kickstart can be more generic. Anyway, I'm just guessing at what happens. Haven't actual dug into any cloud stacks. |
| 18:11.30 | programmerq | wants one of these for his trip to India: http://www.sennheiserusa.com/bluetooth-wireless-headphones-noise-cancelling_portable_502417 |
| 18:11.36 | brac | [Sennheiser USA - Bluetooth Stereo Headphones - MM 550 - Wireless Stereo Headphones - Noise Cancelling - Personal Audi] |
| 18:11.37 | programmerq | just a touch expensive |
| 18:15.46 | jessie | I have some Sony ones that are super nice for things like that. |
| 18:15.53 | jessie | But not quite that expensive. |
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| 18:54.13 | sjansen | programmerq: I've never tried those, but I do have a pair of bose. |
| 18:54.34 | sjansen | $500 may seem expensive, but if you travel enough it's worth every penny. |
| 18:55.46 | sjansen | I've forgotten my headphone for a couple of trips. Wow, who knew noise could wear you out that much. |
| 18:57.12 | sjansen | I also recommend slip on shoes for travel. It's hard finding slip on dress shoes that aren't hideous, but security is much easier to deal with. |
| 18:57.50 | sjansen | And, surprisingly, being stuffed in a middle seat is more comfortable if you slip off your shoes. |
| 18:58.49 | goozbach | sjansen: tried clarks? |
| 18:59.00 | sjansen | nope |
| 18:59.20 | goozbach | comfy slip on shoes, and they really look nice |
| 19:00.01 | goozbach | http://www.clarksusa.com/eng/categories/mens/shoes/loafers-slip-ons |
| 19:00.49 | sjansen | I used to have a brilliant pair of sketchers. The only shoe I've ever seen that managed to pull off urban casual and business dress in the same design. |
| 19:00.57 | jsmith | likes Clarks, but can't stand slip-ons |
| 19:01.06 | goozbach | this is the shoe I'm wearing right now: http://www.clarksusa.com/eng/product/wave_path/71823 |
| 19:03.25 | sjansen | goozbach: I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but... your shoe is hideous. |
| 19:03.58 | fozzmoo | Oh, it's not that bad. At least it's not all white. |
| 19:03.58 | goozbach | hideous? |
| 19:04.15 | goozbach | wow |
| 19:04.42 | goozbach | I understand if it's not your bag, but hideous? |
| 19:05.15 | sjansen | Like I said, I think most slip ons look hideous. |
| 19:06.00 | goozbach | maybe I should back up |
| 19:06.07 | goozbach | what do you look for in a slip on? |
| 19:06.20 | goozbach | I had a nice, simple brown born slipon for my Guru days |
| 19:06.27 | goozbach | that pair of shoes was awesome |
| 19:07.07 | sjansen | I don't want a pair that looks like I'm about to go yachting or curl up on the sofa with a good book. |
| 19:07.29 | sjansen | In other words, not to casual. |
| 19:07.38 | goozbach | more business like, I see |
| 19:08.13 | goozbach | how bout this: http://www.bornshoes.com/Product.aspx?ProductID=5534 |
| 19:08.31 | sjansen | I also don't want strangely flattend and elongated, weird stitching, or metal buckles. |
| 19:12.01 | sjansen | Yes, much nicer. Hopefully that's a bad angle cause it looks a litte stubby. But I'd be willing to settle for that shoe. |
| 19:14.13 | sjansen | Now the black version of the shoe is a different story. That brown stiching isn't as bad as some, but it's still ugly. (Who puts a seam down the middle of a dress shoe?) |
| 19:15.40 | goozbach | no seam then? |
| 19:16.54 | programmerq | has wide feet so it's difficult to find shoes that fit that aren't a tried and true brand. |
| 19:18.32 | sjansen | Edge is fine. Top is hideous. Can you still call that part a tongue if it's a slip on? |
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| 19:23.27 | sjansen | This is what I'm talking about: http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/steve-madden-shoes-carano-slip-on-dress-shoes?ID=383764&CategoryID=55638#fn=sp%3D1%26spc%3D288%26ruleId%3D27%26slotId%3D7 |
| 19:23.28 | brac | [Steve Madden Shoes, Carano Slip-On Dress Shoes - Mens All Men's Shoes - Macy's] |
| 19:24.55 | sjansen | Of this: http://www1.macys.com/shop/product/stacy-adams-shoes-templin-loafers?ID=483568&CategoryID=65&LinkType=PDPZ1 |
| 19:24.56 | brac | [Stacy Adams Shoes, Templin Loafers - Mens Loafers & Slip Ons - Macy's] |
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| 19:25.37 | sjansen | You have to see the second one in person to understand just how ridiculous the toe is. Like your foot got caught in a dough roller. |
| 19:27.46 | goozbach | I've never been a big fan of steve madden |
| 19:27.56 | goozbach | I do however miss those born shoes |
| 19:30.02 | programmerq | These are the shoes I have on now: http://www.merrell.com/US/en-US/Product.mvc.aspx/22765M/50086/Bark-Brown/J88621?dimensions=0 |
| 19:30.16 | programmerq | so far they are fantastic and I've had them for several months. |
| 19:31.57 | programmerq | I guess it isn't exactly the same, but pretty close |
| 19:32.13 | programmerq | realizes this is probably the very first IRC conversation he's had about shoes. |
| 19:32.31 | fozzmoo | For wide feet, Doc Martens? |
| 19:33.19 | programmerq | I've done new balance shoes for a really long time, but the quality has been going downhill, which is why I decided to find something else (merrell). I've never tried doc martens. |
| 19:34.13 | fozzmoo | I used to wear nothing but Docs. I don't know if my feet got smaller or I just never noticed how loose fitting they were, but they feel real loose to me now. |
| 19:34.37 | fozzmoo | For the record, I will never buy Sketchers shoes for myself ever again. |
| 19:34.58 | fozzmoo | My favorite brand right now is Columbia - I usually wear hikers. |
| 19:35.34 | fozzmoo | I had a hard time finding dress shoes I liked because I also wanted them to be comfortable to wear doing lots of walking in an urban setting. |
| 19:37.05 | programmerq | I'm considering getting a set of crocs for lounging around |
| 19:37.17 | programmerq | decrease the time my feet are in my normal shoes so they last longer |
| 19:37.19 | sjansen | Doc Martens have a reputation for quality. My experience was the opposite. |
| 19:37.37 | fozzmoo | I ended up getting these: http://www.famousfootwear.com/Shopping/ProductDetails.aspx?p=12595&pg=1006956 |
| 19:37.38 | sjansen | My Docs wore out so fast I swore never again. |
| 19:38.01 | fozzmoo | sjansen: Wow. That is unusual. Mine usually lasted about 18 months and that was with me wearing them every single day. |
| 19:38.17 | fozzmoo | They'd get funky wear patterns on the heels because I don't walk perfectly straight. |
| 19:38.28 | programmerq | http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/products/mens_footwear.htm <-- a couple people at my last job had those that they wore to the office |
| 19:39.06 | fozzmoo | heh. One of the guys on my Ragnar team had some of those. |
| 19:41.48 | jsmith | knows of a guy who swears by them |
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| 20:48.53 | jima | programmerq: static buildup from crocs is *awful*. |
| 20:49.13 | jima | if you have a job where that matters, you may want to factor that in. |
| 20:49.28 | goozbach | also keep them away from esclators |
| 20:49.36 | eightyeight | i love my vibram fivefingers |
| 20:49.36 | jima | goozbach: oh? |
| 20:49.40 | eightyeight | i have the komodosport ls |
| 20:49.49 | eightyeight | awesome shoes |
| 20:49.53 | jima | has not seen any problems with crocs and escalators |
| 20:50.10 | jima | otoh, my kids know to fear and respect them. |
| 20:51.39 | programmerq | didn't know about the static buildup on crocs |
| 20:51.49 | goozbach | http://www.snopes.com/horrors/parental/escalator.asp |
| 20:51.50 | brac | [snopes.com: Escalator Footwear Injuries] |
| 20:52.07 | goozbach | don't do a google image search |
| 20:52.16 | goozbach | esp if you're nearing lunchtime |
| 20:52.22 | jima | programmerq: i used to wear them around my old work, i developed a habit of hitting a grounded cabinet every time i walked out of my office. |
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| 20:53.40 | jima | i don't really wear any anymore |
| 20:54.08 | jima | my wife still does, and she constantly zaps me we're out, particularly in conjunction with shopping carts. |
| 20:54.19 | jima | s/me we/me when we/ |
| 21:29.06 | Tene | anyone here have recommendations for simple C exercises for a relatively new programmer? I've got a friend trying to learn C. |
| 21:30.45 | unum | hello world :) |
| 21:31.09 | programmerq | Tene: maybe some project euler exercises? |
| 21:31.17 | unum | that's a good idea |
| 21:31.53 | programmerq | found out about project euler because #python has the rule: "no project euler" so I checked it out. |
| 21:32.00 | Tene | I considered that, but thought that the math might distract from the C, or something. It's certainly better than nothing. |
| 21:32.53 | programmerq | in my experience, programming and doing math complement each other. That doesn't mean that the math wouldn't be distracting. At the same time, software is all math anyway. |
| 21:32.56 | programmerq | shrugs |
| 21:33.09 | Tene | yeah |
| 21:33.09 | unum | I always liked to write little games |
| 21:33.23 | unum | text based ones of course |
| 21:33.24 | programmerq | had written a few pong-like games back in junior high |
| 21:33.39 | unum | we wrote a number guessing game in my programming class |
| 21:33.47 | unum | my into to programming in high school |
| 21:33.52 | unum | intro |
| 21:33.59 | unum | I used to write card games |
| 21:34.14 | programmerq | I was tortured by having to draw a cactus using Java's drawing canvas. |
| 21:34.23 | Tene | number guessing game was my first recommendation. |
| 21:34.26 | goozbach | shudder |
| 21:34.28 | unum | I suspect you are younger than me |
| 21:34.45 | unum | that was directed towards programmerq |
| 21:34.52 | programmerq | it's very possible-- I'm 26. |
| 21:34.59 | goozbach | I had to draw a snowman using java canvus |
| 21:35.02 | goozbach | canvas |
| 21:35.04 | goozbach | even |
| 21:35.22 | programmerq | snowman sounds familiar too-- was this CS142 at BYU by any chance? |
| 21:35.48 | unum | nice thing about being old, computer programming classes used to be about computers, not tool sets |
| 21:35.59 | unum | I was actually talking to my state rep about that the other day |
| 21:36.28 | unum | I'm not sure what the current curiculmn is but I know high school students are required to take a technology class |
| 21:36.42 | unum | but I think most of them just take typing and don't learn much about how computers work |
| 21:37.06 | unum | I think a simple course on using computer logic would be nice(it could be based on a spreadsheet program) |
| 21:37.22 | programmerq | my first high school required typing and then another class about ms office. my second high school didn't care because they just figured everyone would end up working in a store or on a farm or at the quarry. |
| 21:38.03 | unum | I told him to quite giving money to dell and ms so that students can learn on the newest and greatest which be obsolete by the time they enter the work force |
| 21:38.04 | programmerq | I tested out of typing, but their class on ms office was impossible to test out of "what is the fifth button from the right on the third toolbar in the xyz view of excel?" |
| 21:38.18 | unum | teach some basic concepts, and that would better prepare people |
| 21:38.29 | unum | programmerq: great example of what I hate |
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| 21:38.55 | programmerq | of course I flew through each module and then telnetted home to play with mysql instead of access |
| 21:39.08 | unum | I've tried to get something in the omnibus study bill before, but I think I failed to follow up with it |
| 21:39.35 | *** topic/#utah by eightyeight -> logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | php cannot add hexadecimal numbers: https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=61095 |
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| 21:42.14 | programmerq | is headed home |
| 21:42.24 | eightyeight | while we're at it: http://devzone.zend.com/423/php-gotchas/ |
| 21:44.41 | programmerq | eightyeight: that link is golden |
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| 22:07.03 | saturdayplace | Sooooo, I picked up Python in order how to do web dev (Django) and I'm looking to pick up some Java (JEE). Anyone have any recommendations on where to start? |
| 22:07.45 | Jayce^ | don't? |
| 22:08.06 | goozbach | saturdayplace: minecraft plugins |
| 22:08.24 | eightyeight | android apps |
| 22:13.06 | saturdayplace | offers a low chuckle to Jayce^ |
| 22:14.45 | unum | android's really easy |
| 22:15.03 | unum | and practical |
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| 22:16.01 | saturdayplace | Do you need a device? I don't even OWN a cell phone. </cheapskate> |
| 22:17.57 | eightyeight | no. the adroid sdk has everything you need to develop against |
| 22:24.03 | Tene | saturdayplace: personally, my advice is that I found java tedious and uncomfortable, and I haven't missed it since I gave up on it. If you don't have a specific reason to work with Java, I wouldn't bother. Plenty of other people disagree and quite like Java, though. |
| 22:28.50 | fozzmoo | shudders at the thought. |
| 22:29.04 | fozzmoo | If it's between those two, I'd definitely nudge you in the direction of Python. |
| 22:29.34 | fozzmoo | But, Android apps are cool. |
| 22:29.59 | fozzmoo | So, I'm afraid I have no real advice here. Move along. |
| 22:33.35 | goozbach | saturdayplace: another great java project is OpenNMS |
| 22:36.10 | fozzmoo | What's good about it, goozbach? |
| 22:36.37 | goozbach | it's well run project |
| 22:36.53 | goozbach | which solves an important need in a quite manageable manner |
| 22:36.58 | goozbach | written in java (mostly) |
| 22:37.06 | fozzmoo | How does it compare to Nagios? |
| 22:37.17 | fozzmoo | Or is that a poor comparison? |
| 22:38.16 | fozzmoo | One place I worked used Hyperic, which is also Java based, but it was so bloated and heavy, it contributed to the load averages on the machines we were monitoring. |
| 22:38.36 | goozbach | nagios is a fikle little beast |
| 22:38.42 | fozzmoo | I think monitoring agents should be virtually invisible. |
| 22:38.48 | goozbach | but does a decent job after *GOBS* of configuration |
| 22:38.52 | goozbach | in big settings that is |
| 22:38.52 | fozzmoo | Hyperic's agents, OTOH, is not. |
| 22:39.16 | goozbach | openNMS leverages SNMP for most of it's heavy lifting |
| 22:39.19 | goozbach | so not many agents |
| 22:39.21 | fozzmoo | Ahh. |
| 22:40.04 | fozzmoo | You can leverage SNMP with Nagios, but again... you were spot on with the "*GOBS* of configuration" comment. |
| 23:15.53 | saturdayplace | The company I work at is starting up an exciting project I'd like to be a part of, but they want Java Web dev experience. I was thinking of spending some free time picking it up. |
| 23:17.04 | eightyeight | i wouldn't make a career out of java development personally, but i see no harm in learning, and actively participating in the project |
| 23:18.12 | saturdayplace | Are there any folks here who LIKE doing Java development? |
| 23:18.31 | saturdayplace | Seems like everywhere I go the community consensus isn't very favorable towards it. |
| 23:18.46 | saturdayplace | I figured I try to hold my nose and see if I could pick it up. |
| 23:40.49 | sjansen | http://oskuro.net/blog/freesoftware/alsaconf-2012-02-23-23-53 |
| 23:43.12 | sjansen | Tene: Why does your friend want to learn C? To create games? To work on the kernel? To understand how computers work? Take that reason and reduce it by several factors. |
| 23:45.06 | sjansen | If games: (1) Games require input. How do I get input? Number guessing game. (2) Games have pretty pictures? How do I show an image in a window? Etc. |
| 23:45.34 | sjansen | Kernel is harder. Maybe your friend would like to write a couple of simple games first? |
| 23:45.52 | sjansen | Learning how computers work? Let's be honest... |
| 23:47.04 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:48.16 | eightyeight | heh |
| 23:48.30 | eightyeight | who even have a Ph.D |
| 23:51.33 | sjansen | saturdayplace: There are nice things about Java. Amazing tool set. Some really smart thought leaders. |
| 23:52.20 | sjansen | Java is... verbose. But sense is slowly being beaten into the Java designers. It's not as bad as it used to be. |
| 23:52.30 | fozzmoo | Java has really fueled the sale of whiteboards, I'll give them that. |
| 23:53.43 | eightyeight | just one day, i would like to see a java developer not send application logs to syslog |
| 23:53.54 | saturdayplace | yikes. |
| 23:55.14 | sjansen | Now that RAM is cheap, CPUs are *much* faster than they were a decade ago, and JIT is better understood, Java shouldn't be automatically disqualified even if it is a pig. |
| 23:55.44 | eightyeight | heh. ram is dirt cheap |
| 23:55.54 | eightyeight | you can get 4 gig sticks for like $30 |
| 23:56.28 | *** join/#utah pjdayton (~Adium@199.188.28.10) |
| 23:57.05 | eightyeight | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220620&cm_sp=Cat_Memory-_-Daily_Deal-_-20-220-620 |
| 23:57.12 | eightyeight | $50 for a single 8 GB stick |
| 23:57.35 | sjansen | Server grade isn't much more expensive. |
| 23:57.46 | eightyeight | registered memory? |
| 23:58.04 | sjansen | ECC Registered. |
| 23:58.10 | eightyeight | yeah |
| 23:58.29 | sjansen | I upgraded my home server recently. |
| 23:59.05 | sjansen | I regret the motherboard (ASUS), but at least it can do ECC. |