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| 17:31.22 | eightyeight | does anyone have any recommendations on 10 Gb NICs? |
| 17:31.42 | goozbach | which form factor? |
| 17:31.54 | eightyeight | 2U, dual-port |
| 17:31.55 | goozbach | cx4 SFP+ 10GbaseT? |
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| 17:31.59 | eightyeight | ah |
| 17:32.27 | eightyeight | probably 10gbase-sr |
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| 17:33.30 | eightyeight | goozbach: well, maybe you can help me a bit with it. 10Gb ethernet is new to me |
| 17:33.50 | goozbach | you want/need to run fiber? |
| 17:34.03 | goozbach | 10G base T is getting down there in price where it starts to make sense |
| 17:34.06 | eightyeight | goozbach: i'm looking to connect two storage units together with a switch between the two (possibly) |
| 17:34.22 | goozbach | do you have existing 10G switching infrastructure? |
| 17:34.24 | eightyeight | fibre or no fibre, i'm open to suggestions |
| 17:34.27 | eightyeight | yes |
| 17:34.35 | goozbach | if so, matching the switching phy is probabally cheapest |
| 17:34.38 | eightyeight | probably should learn the ports on the switch then |
| 17:34.52 | eightyeight | i'll find out what is on them |
| 17:35.31 | goozbach | and really if you're going fiber, SFP+ cards and the fiber PHYs are pretty interchangeable from what I have used |
| 17:35.39 | goozbach | again limited by the switch |
| 17:37.03 | eightyeight | the module is a cisco c3kx-nm-10g |
| 17:37.47 | goozbach | googles |
| 17:38.04 | eightyeight | http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/switches/ps5718/ps6406/data_sheet_c78-584733.html |
| 17:38.07 | brac | [Cisco Catalyst 3750-X and 3560-X Series Switches [Cisco Catalyst 3750-X Series Switches] - Cisco Systems] |
| 17:38.12 | goozbach | so it's sfp_ |
| 17:38.14 | goozbach | sfp+ |
| 17:38.38 | goozbach | you add the fiber transievers as you need fiber, or buy $$$ sfp+ copper cables |
| 17:39.04 | goozbach | is this going to stay pretty static or change/move a lot? |
| 17:39.16 | eightyeight | very static |
| 17:39.49 | eightyeight | http://www.audio-discounters.com/sfn5162f.html ?? |
| 17:39.50 | goozbach | fiber is cheaper if you can get inexpensive transievers, but it's less robust if things are gonna get jostled |
| 17:39.51 | brac | [Solarflare Communications SFN5162F 10Gb Enet Midrange Adapt 2Port 10G Sfp+ Nic] |
| 17:40.50 | goozbach | supermicro has a good SFP+ nic |
| 17:40.53 | eightyeight | or http://www.provantage.com/lg-ericsson-nic-1002sfp~7SMC90AQ.htm |
| 17:40.57 | eightyeight | googles |
| 17:40.59 | goozbach | that's what we use exclusively |
| 17:41.04 | goozbach | don't have a part number |
| 17:41.07 | goozbach | but I can find one |
| 17:42.27 | eightyeight | http://www.macconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Product/Detail.htm?sku=12960738&cm_mmc=Base-_-12960738-_-New-_-GY3&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=12960738 |
| 17:44.01 | goozbach | much cheaper than $600 |
| 17:44.04 | eightyeight | "low profile" better mean 2U. ツ |
| 17:44.05 | goozbach | c3kx-nm-10g |
| 17:44.20 | goozbach | try AOC-STGN-i2S |
| 17:44.26 | goozbach | ^^ supermicro part number |
| 17:44.33 | eightyeight | yup. found it |
| 17:44.39 | eightyeight | ~$530 |
| 17:44.41 | eightyeight | not bad, i guess |
| 17:44.55 | goozbach | http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=SuperMicro+AOC-STGN-I2S&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=17793908392289010058&sa=X&ei=RSgoT6vKK4q42wXIlpnWAg&ved=0CD0Q8wIwAg |
| 17:45.01 | goozbach | 439 on that link |
| 17:49.13 | eightyeight | that will likely work |
| 17:49.14 | eightyeight | goozbach: thx |
| 17:52.16 | goozbach | let me know how it goes |
| 17:52.31 | eightyeight | indeed |
| 17:53.41 | goozbach | as far as switches go cisco or arista are the way to go |
| 17:53.48 | goozbach | but not the low-end cisco |
| 17:53.57 | goozbach | but you said blade, so you're good |
| 17:54.08 | goozbach | and enable those jumbo frames! |
| 17:54.10 | goozbach | :) |
| 18:03.35 | jsmith | fries up some jumbo frames in clarified butter and a little lime juice... yummy! |
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| 18:19.24 | sjansen | recommends that jsmith add a little cayenne pepper and cilantro next time |
| 18:20.27 | goozbach | +1 on the cilantro |
| 18:22.58 | eightyeight | goozbach: jumbo frames? why? we aren't hurting in cpu |
| 18:59.53 | goozbach | jumbo frames make sure you have ample AoE bandwidth at layer2 |
| 19:01.07 | goozbach | it affects both throuput and funnily enough iops |
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| 19:45.34 | peno | +1 for jumbo frames |
| 19:46.07 | goozbach | and that goes for NFS/et all too |
| 19:47.49 | rsimpkins | Welcome to The United States of America: Land of the free, home of the brave.* (*Restrictions apply, inquire inside.) |
| 19:48.01 | jima | s/inside/outside/ |
| 19:54.13 | jessie | jima: Ha. That was good. |
| 19:54.27 | jima | s/good/sad but true/ :-\ |
| 19:55.15 | jessie | Don't I know it. |
| 19:55.37 | jima | probably? i'm not sure how many people do, to be honest. |
| 19:56.45 | jessie | jima: Yeah. SOPA and PIPA are the tip of the iceberg. Which is why I want guns... Lots and lots of them. |
| 19:57.01 | jima | i need money for said guns. :-\ |
| 19:57.16 | jima | oh well, probably in the works |
| 19:57.23 | jessie | jima: Tell me about it! I want an M14, but they are too damn pricey! |
| 19:57.35 | rsimpkins | Why guns? Why not tanks? |
| 19:57.47 | rsimpkins | Er, laser guided bombs please. |
| 19:57.55 | fugue88 | Speaking of... |
| 19:58.02 | fugue88 | Anyone know what happenned to geeksnguns? |
| 19:58.13 | fugue88 | .com |
| 19:58.27 | rsimpkins | They shot the server up. |
| 19:58.32 | fugue88 | Other than the domain expiring, that is... |
| 19:58.37 | fugue88 | rsimpkins: heheh |
| 19:59.29 | jessie | Nope, no idea. Never heard of it, to be honest. |
| 19:59.48 | jessie | At this point, I just subscribe to /r/guns on reddit. It's aight. |
| 19:59.57 | goozbach | Jayce^: weren't you involved with that? ^^^ |
| 20:00.07 | fugue88 | I *thought* it was someone in our community running that, associated with the preppers crowd. |
| 20:00.16 | fugue88 | utahpreppers.com |
| 20:00.21 | goozbach | jessie: thanks, just what I needed, another subreddit to follow |
| 20:00.33 | fugue88 | Oh, yeah. Hi big brother! Yes, I follow such blogs! o/ |
| 20:00.54 | goozbach | I need someone to add reddit.com to my hostsfile in a manner I can't subdue it. |
| 20:01.45 | jima | goozbach: here, use this dns server that directs you to internet shock sites no matter what fqdn you ask for. |
| 20:01.47 | JoshH | are you the guy in the redditors wife meme? |
| 20:02.08 | jessie | goozbach: Between that and gunporn, I am digging it. |
| 20:02.09 | jima | (actually, crap, that would probably keep you busy, too, huh?) |
| 20:02.33 | jessie | *carporn, not gun porn. |
| 20:02.46 | JoshH | jima: there are subreddits for that too |
| 20:03.09 | jima | JoshH: you're understanding goozbach's problem: there are subreddits for EVERYTHING. |
| 20:03.35 | jessie | Literally everything. |
| 20:03.48 | JoshH | yep |
| 20:03.56 | JoshH | it's like the only website you need |
| 20:05.37 | jessie | JoshH: That and Drudge. |
| 20:06.00 | JoshH | nobody needs drudge |
| 20:06.07 | JoshH | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:06.40 | JoshH | of course drudge has other stuff too though, but still |
| 20:07.04 | jessie | I find it is wise to get news from multiple sources. |
| 20:07.34 | goozbach | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:07.47 | JoshH | i have to stop reading non-local news during primary/election seasons |
| 20:07.51 | eightyeight | techdirt is all that is necessary for this digital age |
| 20:07.54 | eightyeight | and twitter |
| 20:07.54 | eightyeight | ツ |
| 20:07.56 | eightyeight | decks |
| 20:07.58 | eightyeight | s/e/u/ |
| 20:09.55 | romanovic | has recently become a fan of techdirt |
| 20:10.12 | romanovic | I only learned of techdirt sometime last year |
| 20:10.29 | fozzmoo | There's always TheBlaze.com... but you'll never admit you've been there. |
| 20:10.42 | fozzmoo | checks out techdirt.com |
| 20:10.53 | JoshH | remember when people used to go to slashdot? |
| 20:11.12 | fozzmoo | Uh huh. I used to read Slashdot religiously... until 2002 or so. |
| 20:11.16 | romanovic | i still do... maybe i need to broaden my tech news base |
| 20:11.21 | eightyeight | JoshH: ssh. sjansen still frequents it |
| 20:11.38 | fozzmoo | I met Rob Malda at LinuxWorld and, what do you know, he's a pompous ass. |
| 20:12.09 | fozzmoo | Or just anti-social. |
| 20:12.13 | jima | it ended up being enough for me that /. users were pompous asses. :-) |
| 20:12.14 | goozbach | I read slashdot at -1 up until 2010 |
| 20:12.51 | fozzmoo | goozbach: Huh? But you had a life before that! that makes no sense! |
| 20:12.55 | goozbach | every time an article got me from the main page, I read all the comments on the first page |
| 20:13.01 | fozzmoo | heh heh. |
| 20:13.13 | goozbach | I cut down on the number of articles I read |
| 20:13.19 | romanovic | ars technica and the register are always informative |
| 20:13.20 | goozbach | but I still ended up reading every comment |
| 20:13.24 | fozzmoo | readwriteweb.com is pretty useful too. |
| 20:13.31 | eightyeight | i would read ars, if they put the full post in their feeds |
| 20:13.43 | eightyeight | the register has been hit and miss |
| 20:13.55 | JoshH | ars is still good but has kinda gone downhill, less tech talk and more apple gossip and whatnot |
| 20:15.14 | JoshH | and the commenters are so whiny there |
| 20:15.25 | JoshH | always nitpicking about the articles and stuff |
| 20:16.12 | Jayce^ | guess phil let the domain lapse |
| 20:16.15 | Jayce^ | will have to smack him |
| 20:16.30 | fozzmoo | vows to stand behind Jayce^ as he smacks Phil. |
| 20:16.39 | fozzmoo | will videorecord the incident. |
| 20:17.21 | fozzmoo | Expired 1/25 |
| 20:17.30 | fozzmoo | THERE'S STILL TIME! |
| 20:17.54 | Jayce^ | fugue88: I gave phil the idea, he grabbed the name, though didn't do much with it (for geeksnguns).. I"ve got the preppers stuff |
| 20:22.26 | fugue88 | kk |
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| 20:59.05 | mahelious | florida will be done in 4 hours |
| 21:00.49 | mahelious | wonder if gingrich would drop out tonight if he doesnt win the state. |
| 21:01.39 | brkpt_ | He'll just find a hotter wife |
| 21:01.52 | Jayce^ | ++ |
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| 21:12.25 | sjansen | It's probably too much to hope that Gingrich drops out. |
| 21:13.25 | sjansen | He strikes me as a mean loser. If he doesn't win Florida I expect he'll just starting saying nasty things behind its back. |
| 21:13.27 | Jayce^ | yeah, as long as people keep paying him, he'll stay in, pissing in the well |
| 21:13.39 | Jayce^ | sjansen: wait, we're agreeing politically.. crap.. :-p |
| 21:24.04 | jsmith | slowly backs away from the keyboard |
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| 21:52.31 | fozzmoo | Jayce^++ |
| 21:53.46 | JoshH | that's not exactly a strange thing to agree on |
| 21:53.53 | JoshH | i'm amazed anyone actually supports gingrich |
| 21:57.35 | Jayce^ | yeah, it's just sjansen and I need to point that out :) |
| 22:12.57 | shalkie | I think Divorce Lawyers might support Gingrich. |
| 22:13.24 | shalkie | They might also think about offering him a frequent customer program too.... |
| 22:21.21 | Jayce^ | saw an article a month ago or so about how the national editorial cartoonist board *loves* the idea of a newt presidency.. *so* easy to make fun of |
| 22:23.53 | mahelious | im sure Bobby Moynihan wouldnt mind seeing him go Pres or Vice Pres. thats job security. |
| 22:24.21 | mahelious | something i keep waiting to hear, who would Romney choose as a running mate? |
| 22:27.20 | jsmith | mahelious: He'll pick someone that you've heard of, but have no idea what they stand for. Someone who will stay in the shadows and hopefully keep their mouth shut, like Biden. |
| 22:27.38 | mahelious | lmao |
| 22:28.09 | jsmith | I know that sounds funny, but I was serious. |
| 22:28.42 | mahelious | specifically at the thought of Biden actually keeping his mouth shut. |
| 22:28.45 | jsmith | The job of VP is to stay out of the way, deflect heat when needed, and keep the Naval Observatory in shape. |
| 22:29.00 | shalkie | If only Biden had kept his mouth a little more shut. But he has done well so far. |
| 22:29.18 | JoshH | he's better than cheney for sure |
| 22:29.23 | pdayton | compare Biden to Cheney |
| 22:29.28 | pdayton | Biden is a traditional VP |
| 22:29.41 | mahelious | its interesting to think about, would Romney prefer a dark horse from the private sector that he knows and trusts, or a big name from the political arena that carries some political weight. |
| 22:29.42 | pdayton | Cheney was so much more |
| 22:29.56 | pdayton | Romney needs to round out his appeal |
| 22:29.56 | shalkie | Cheney scared me. |
| 22:30.02 | pdayton | it is like 2000 with Gore |
| 22:30.34 | pdayton | he chose Libermann because he needed to have someone who was a moral opposite of Bill Clinton |
| 22:30.41 | fozzmoo | pdayton: Yup. |
| 22:30.45 | pdayton | Romney will need to choose someone who is a "true conservative" |
| 22:31.00 | mahelious | Cheney reminded me a lot of Hillary. but Bush must have been a marionette far easier to manipulate |
| 22:31.22 | fozzmoo | pdayton: Lotta people talking about Marco Rubio. |
| 22:31.45 | mahelious | nah, once Romney finally gets the GOP nomination i think his strength will be pulling middle of the road and right-leaning dems |
| 22:31.54 | fozzmoo | I wouldn't be surprised if its Rick Santorum. |
| 22:32.02 | pdayton | fozzmoo: that might be a logical choice, he has tea party credentials |
| 22:32.11 | jessie | Why not Ron Paul for VP? |
| 22:32.29 | fozzmoo | I really want to see Ron Paul appointed to treasury secretary. |
| 22:32.43 | pdayton | I seriously doubt Ron Paul would team up with Romney. They are way too far apart ideologically. |
| 22:33.05 | fugue88 | As in, Ron Paul *has* an ideology. |
| 22:33.13 | fugue88 | :P |
| 22:33.17 | jessie | fugue88: You be hatin', bra? |
| 22:33.22 | fozzmoo | jessie: Probably because no one wants to see him 2nd in line . :) |
| 22:34.00 | fugue88 | jessie: No, not at all, bra. I just notice that Romney will say whatever his current audience wants to hear. |
| 22:34.25 | jessie | Oh come on, I would vote for the RP. Much better than Newt or Obama. |
| 22:34.35 | fozzmoo | It's interesting to me that Romney was "the conservative candidate" in 2008 and now I see people saying he's "no different than Obama, he's so far left." |
| 22:34.36 | jessie | fugue88: What makes you say that? |
| 22:35.08 | fugue88 | Watching him talk, to different audiences. |
| 22:35.34 | fozzmoo | A friend of mine made a really good point: It's like the country is being run by the International Olympic Committee right now. It's not a whole lot different than the 2002 Olympics was before Romney came in and fixed it. |
| 22:36.00 | jessie | See, I haven't had a chance to watch any of the debates or what not. Is there a good place to watch them online? |
| 22:36.01 | fozzmoo | Loads of corruption, cronyism, and a lot of deficit spending. |
| 22:36.25 | JoshH | the olympics weren't really all that hard to fix, definitely child's play compared to all of america's problems |
| 22:36.30 | fugue88 | I've only seen one debate, and a bit of a second. |
| 22:36.45 | JoshH | someone the other day was saying welch pretty much had the olympics fixed and romney swooped in and got all the credit |
| 22:36.52 | fugue88 | But I've seen other interviews and stuff, just whatever comes across my way that's on youtube. |
| 22:37.20 | JoshH | but as i've said quite a few times, america's problems are definitely beyond any single person, no matter how great a president is |
| 22:37.30 | fozzmoo | JoshH: Bingo. |
| 22:37.55 | fozzmoo | It doesn't really matter who gets elected if we've got an inept, inert, in-stupid congress |
| 22:38.05 | JoshH | issues like healthcare and immigration will simply never be properly solved |
| 22:38.08 | jessie | I just we would get rid of the damn Federal Reserve system. |
| 22:38.14 | fozzmoo | jessie++ |
| 22:38.25 | fugue88 | ~jessie++ |
| 22:38.31 | fozzmoo | jessie: Precisely why I'd love to see Paul as treasury secretary. |
| 22:38.38 | JoshH | what would take over though? i really don't want congress controlling that directly, look at how they handled the debt ceiling fiasco |
| 22:38.51 | JoshH | the money system should not be political |
| 22:38.55 | fozzmoo | What would take over? The market. |
| 22:39.01 | jessie | JoshH: Private industry? Why does it need political backing? |
| 22:39.01 | Jayce^ | the money system should go back to how it was |
| 22:39.15 | Jayce^ | govt only ran the mint, not a bank |
| 22:39.27 | jessie | Are our ... Umm... Hmm... What *isn't* controlled by the feds in some manner these days? |
| 22:39.32 | JoshH | private industry or "the market" handling the central bank? umm, no thanks |
| 22:39.45 | JoshH | that said, the fed should be more transparent and have some accountability |
| 22:39.47 | fozzmoo | The crash and bubble cycles the Fed was supposed to reign in only got worse after the Fed was established. |
| 22:39.48 | fugue88 | Or how about, no central bank? |
| 22:39.48 | Jayce^ | but there shouldn't be a central bank... |
| 22:39.50 | jessie | JoshH: There's not a central bank. There's thousands of small, different banks. |
| 22:39.51 | JoshH | but it's not somethign i'm that well versed in |
| 22:40.02 | jessie | s/There's not/There wouldn't be/ |
| 22:42.27 | JoshH | and that would make things better how? |
| 22:42.56 | jessie | JoshH: Just like with resturants or some of the other private industries, you now have a choice in banks. |
| 22:43.17 | jessie | Interest rates are controlled by supply and demand again, not by some guy on a whim. |
| 22:43.18 | sjansen | Fed == Govt |
| 22:43.20 | sjansen | Govt == Bad |
| 22:43.23 | sjansen | Ergo |
| 22:43.27 | sjansen | Fed == Bad |
| 22:43.29 | jessie | Fed != Govt |
| 22:43.38 | JoshH | what is it then? |
| 22:43.42 | fugue88 | No central bank means no central point of control (i.e. by politicians). And look at it this way: what purpose does our central bank server right now? Only 1: it's the conduit through which currency is manufactured and injected by politicians into the system |
| 22:43.45 | fozzmoo | Again, you have to go back pre-1913 to see how banking worked before the Fed was there. It did work. |
| 22:43.48 | jessie | It's a private bank that loans its money to the US. |
| 22:43.51 | brkpt_ | Govt is bad... unless you're not acting like we want you too, then we'll use it to change your behavior |
| 22:44.00 | JoshH | things were a LOT different before 1913 though |
| 22:44.29 | fozzmoo | Yeah. We didn't have Great Depressions and crap like that before 1913. |
| 22:44.30 | sjansen | Banks worked when most financial transaction were with someone living within 30 miles. |
| 22:44.33 | jessie | JoshH: The more things change, the more they stay the same. What would be so different that wouldn't be feasable? |
| 22:44.52 | JoshH | in 1913 you went and discussed whether you could get a loan with a person |
| 22:44.55 | jessie | sjansen: Technology makes that a non-issue |
| 22:45.02 | sjansen | Bank runs were great fun! |
| 22:45.09 | fugue88 | They still are! |
| 22:45.18 | fozzmoo | They only got worse with the Fed. |
| 22:45.37 | mahelious | bank runs are largely a moot point with the fdic |
| 22:45.41 | fozzmoo | The Federal Reserve was put in place to lessen volatility and it did the opposite. |
| 22:45.49 | mahelious | dunno how directly thats tied to the fed though |
| 22:45.52 | sjansen | fozzmoo: Really? |
| 22:45.55 | jessie | It just changed who controlled it. |
| 22:46.40 | fozzmoo | sjansen: Yes. I've seen charts that show the crash/bubble cycles only got deeper/higher after the Fed was instituted. |
| 22:46.42 | Jayce^ | sjansen: absolutely, look at the change to liquidity rules, borrowing sources, etc |
| 22:46.44 | fozzmoo | and longer. |
| 22:46.46 | JoshH | i could be convinced that no fed might be a good thing, but so far none of these arguments are swaying me |
| 22:47.04 | JoshH | and of course every politician who suggets that is pretty much a nutcase |
| 22:47.27 | Jayce^ | nutcase == not agreeing with "everybody else" |
| 22:47.29 | jessie | Any one ever seen Zietgiest? |
| 22:47.31 | jessie | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ |
| 22:47.36 | fozzmoo | Right now, the Federal Reserve bank dictates window interest rates based on political, economic, and market inputs. |
| 22:47.38 | mahelious | zeitgeist |
| 22:47.44 | sjansen | I look at history and see the exact opposite. The Fed kept things reasonable until we eliminated Glass-Steagall in the name of deregulation. |
| 22:47.53 | JoshH | fozzmoo: i think that's important, but the process and transparency could be improved |
| 22:48.25 | pdayton | Bernake is taking steps to increase transparency. |
| 22:48.44 | Jayce^ | sjansen: within a couple years of the fed's beginning it was already causing larger boom/bust cycles, that it chose.. |
| 22:48.47 | fozzmoo | JoshH: You're right. Right now it's fairly easy for the Fed to hide true inflation from the public by monetizing the Treasury's debt and artificially keeping interest rates low. |
| 22:49.30 | fozzmoo | But that's simply not sustainable. |
| 22:49.31 | Jayce^ | pdayton: right, and so is the rest of govt :) kinda like those statistics the various agencies spout each weak |
| 22:49.34 | JoshH | infation and debt aren't the fed's problem though. |
| 22:49.41 | fozzmoo | JoshH: EXACTLY. |
| 22:50.04 | Jayce^ | JoshH: actually they are /now/.. they get to pick where it's at |
| 22:50.09 | Jayce^ | shouldn't be though |
| 22:50.26 | JoshH | but if congress is going to spend too much, i'd rather the fed keep the negative effects of it fairly low, so our lives can remain somewhat normal |
| 22:50.34 | pdayton | Jayce^ the fed is designed to be insulated from politics |
| 22:50.38 | JoshH | since we'll never fix congress |
| 22:50.43 | pdayton | I think that is why so many people are suspicious of it |
| 22:51.17 | Jayce^ | pdayton: so is the court system, the dept of education, etc.. dont' think that's kept it out |
| 22:51.31 | fugue88 | The Fed is designed for the profit and power of the few richest families on the planet. That is why so many people are suspicious of it. |
| 22:51.44 | JoshH | like romney's? |
| 22:51.53 | jnbek | yea, the fed being insulated from politics failed a very long time ago |
| 22:52.27 | fozzmoo | Romneys aren't that rich. |
| 22:52.28 | jessie | JoshH: No, we're talking multi-billionaires here. |
| 22:52.44 | fozzmoo | Banking families. Rockefellers, etc. |
| 22:52.47 | JoshH | i think what we need are regulations on how they manage the interest rate, designed by smart people who don't rant about the gold standard |
| 22:52.58 | JoshH | so it wouldn't be "one guy's whims" |
| 22:52.59 | fugue88 | JoshH: We have that. |
| 22:53.00 | fozzmoo | Or just let the market figure it out. |
| 22:53.05 | fozzmoo | It's good at stuff like that. |
| 22:53.09 | Jayce^ | umm, that's exactly what made it go this far.. |
| 22:53.09 | shalkie | Yeah, as far as the multi-billionaires are concerned Romney is middle class. |
| 22:53.13 | JoshH | the market isn't always necessarily stable |
| 22:53.16 | Jayce^ | so more of the same will just make it better |
| 22:53.21 | fugue88 | JoshH: One of the Fed's directives is to maintain "price stability", which they've failed to achieve since inception. |
| 22:53.31 | JoshH | "the market" isn't the answer to every single thing |
| 22:53.48 | jessie | JoshH: Name one thing the government does better than a private business. |
| 22:53.50 | JoshH | countries aren't businesses |
| 22:53.50 | fozzmoo | The market isn't stable... but the Fed's attempts to "control" the market is the problem. |
| 22:53.55 | Jayce^ | when our monetary policy is driven by a targetted inflation rate that helps drive political gain, we have serious problems |
| 22:53.56 | fozzmoo | It's like trying to control the weather. |
| 22:54.36 | Jayce^ | fugue88: funny how the price stability is such an issue that they took food out of the inflation calculation :) |
| 22:54.37 | fugue88 | JoshH: What do you think of a currency based on units of energy? |
| 22:54.44 | Jayce^ | 'cause people dont' care about those |
| 22:54.53 | fozzmoo | As it is, nobody learns from their mistakes, what with bailouts preventing too-big-to-fail companies from actually re-organizing or going out of business. |
| 22:55.14 | fozzmoo | Jayce^++ |
| 22:55.17 | sjansen | jessie: I like how govt. stop fighting war after winning even if continued fighting would improve the profit margin. |
| 22:55.24 | fozzmoo | If Food and gas were included, we'd be looking at 15% inflation, easy. |
| 22:55.41 | pdayton | no one can say for certain what would have happened without the bailouts |
| 22:55.42 | sjansen | jessie: I also like how the water and sewer system is cheap and reliable. |
| 22:55.43 | JoshH | the bailouts themselves weren't the problem, they were just a bandaid so people wouldn't be waiting in lines for bread. what was the root cause of the collapse? |
| 22:56.07 | jessie | sjansen: When are wars profitable for the country? How much debt are we in because of it again? |
| 22:56.17 | Jayce^ | sjansen: and what would that have to do with the fed? nada.. |
| 22:56.28 | fugue88 | Wars are profitable for Raytheon and its shareholders. |
| 22:56.35 | jessie | sjansen: And yet internet was rolled out to a large majority cheapishly and effectively. |
| 22:56.36 | sjansen | jessie wanted examples of "anything" that govt. does better than private business |
| 22:56.59 | Jayce^ | in fact, most cities with large sewer projects funded by fed project have all gone bust recently.. |
| 22:57.05 | sjansen | If if it were up to chiquita, we'd still have massive military presence in south america. |
| 22:58.03 | jessie | sjansen: So they're better at quitting wars? I don't see the connection |
| 22:58.21 | sjansen | jessie: Because you don't want to? |
| 22:58.37 | JoshH | the sewer systems could be fixed if we spent money on those instead of other things |
| 22:59.02 | Jayce^ | hah, the sewer systems did get the money, and it proved to be the problem.. |
| 22:59.12 | jnbek | lol |
| 22:59.12 | JoshH | ? |
| 22:59.22 | jessie | sjansen: I try to take a logical approach, but wars are almost never profitable on a large scale. |
| 22:59.35 | *** join/#utah kendsnyder (~Adium@67-2-190-211.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:59.38 | JoshH | i don't follow Jayce^ |
| 22:59.40 | Jayce^ | JoshH: there's been quite a few in the news over the last couple of years |
| 22:59.46 | fugue88 | Jayce^: Now I can't remember the big headline of where all that fruad was. |
| 22:59.51 | Jayce^ | large corruption cases.. |
| 22:59.55 | Jayce^ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_County,_Alabama#Sewer_construction_and_bond_swap_controversy |
| 23:00.01 | fugue88 | Not that fraud was in only 1 place, but 1 has received particular mention. |
| 23:00.04 | Jayce^ | there's one of the more talked about ones |
| 23:00.07 | fugue88 | Jefferson, that's it! |
| 23:00.31 | Jayce^ | there was another up in the midwest or chicago area recently too |
| 23:00.33 | sjansen | By design, businesses are designed to maximize profit benefiting the few even if it harms the many. |
| 23:00.36 | JoshH | what was the root cause of that alabama problem? |
| 23:00.38 | jessie | sjansen: I think I understand what you are saying now. I would agree that wars should not be started by private businesses, etc. |
| 23:00.41 | fugue88 | Those were some expensive pipes, I must say. |
| 23:00.59 | Jayce^ | but we spent the money, why is it not better! |
| 23:01.06 | sjansen | By design, governement is designe to balance the needs of the few and the many. Imperfectly, perhaps, but better than private industry could alone. |
| 23:01.12 | fugue88 | s/pipes/non-pipes/ |
| 23:01.16 | jessie | sjansen: Really? And how are we communicating right now? Because of greed. How did I get to work today? On the fumes of greed. It is hurting me so bad! |
| 23:01.17 | JoshH | nobody suggests simply spending money is all anything needs |
| 23:01.20 | jnbek | jessie: World War II did our economy quite well... #justsayin |
| 23:01.36 | sjansen | jessie: Greed, moderated by government. |
| 23:01.57 | JoshH | moderates are always right :) |
| 23:01.59 | sjansen | If you want to experienced going to work without government interference, move to Somalia. |
| 23:02.27 | Jayce^ | jnbek: wwII did friends of the govt economy quite well |
| 23:02.39 | jessie | sjansen: Not protecting rights and not interfering in business are not the same. |
| 23:02.41 | Jayce^ | otherwise, ask Nash/Hudson/Kaiser/etc how business went |
| 23:02.51 | jnbek | Jayce^: touche |
| 23:02.54 | JoshH | note that americans sacrificed for WWII. they did not for iraq, except for the gas prices |
| 23:03.03 | JoshH | well, and the families with troops |
| 23:03.25 | Jayce^ | heh, gas prices here vary far more on dollar strenth than actual supply |
| 23:03.32 | JoshH | right |
| 23:03.33 | jessie | I don't hate all government. I like the fire department and police men (most of the time). I don't like it when they interfere with business though. Not being able to buy incandescent lightbulbs is going to suck. |
| 23:03.52 | sjansen | jessie: Okay, now that you've admitted governemtn does a better job of protecting rights that private business, let's work on the next step. |
| 23:04.00 | Jayce^ | jessie: once again, what does the FD and PD have to do with fedgov.. there shouldn't be any connection there |
| 23:04.03 | JoshH | dollar strength, and greedy people |
| 23:04.27 | jessie | Jayce^: Money. It's all about the money. |
| 23:04.30 | Jayce^ | hey, it's fine if people try to make money on the process |
| 23:04.31 | sjansen | Protecting rights is not a bright line. We each have our own definition or "protect" and "rights". Your "interference" is often my "protection". |
| 23:05.01 | jessie | So what are some of the basic rights in business, would you say? |
| 23:05.28 | jnbek | to get screwed by the govt |
| 23:05.31 | jessie | I have a couple, namely you are free to conduct (or refuse) business with anyone, and contracts are binding. |
| 23:05.37 | sjansen | Until people are willing to recognize it's a sliding scale instead of an absolute truth, we're going to continue to be stuck in the stupid partisan mudslinging we see every day. |
| 23:06.38 | Jayce^ | yay, it's time to go home!! |
| 23:07.08 | jnbek | ya, i start talking on IRC, and everyone on XMPP i been waiting on decides to respond finally!! |
| 23:07.10 | Jayce^ | thanks for helping divert me from writing more api binder code for the last half hour of the day :) |
| 23:13.59 | Jayce^ | you know, bruce campbell could really play the part of mitt romney in a movie.... |
| 23:26.53 | *** join/#utah larrys (~larry@c-76-27-113-134.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:43.36 | fadein | Nah, Bruce is too good-looking to pull that off |
| 23:47.25 | JoshH | speaking of gingrich: http://dailycaller.com/2012/01/31/gingrich-robocall-romney-forced-holocaust-survivors-to-eat-non-kosher/ |
| 23:49.48 | *** join/#utah pdayton (~Adium@mobile-198-228-220-038.mycingular.net) |