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| 10:31.17 | clone1018 | bah lahwran bad! |
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| 21:48.29 | rsimpkins | Does anyone think we should start bombing known drug targets in Mexico? |
| 22:04.09 | JoshH | nah, just legalize drugs and they'll disappear tomorrow |
| 22:06.06 | rsimpkins | For some reason I don't believe that. |
| 22:08.43 | JoshH | why not? there were no more gangster wars after prohibition ended |
| 22:09.42 | JoshH | it's a black market with a lucrative and in-demand product, so of course violent criminal orgs are going to control it |
| 22:26.58 | sjansen | rsimpkins: Should the USA start to bomb Mexico? Of course not. |
| 22:27.13 | sjansen | Should Mexico bomb Mexico? That's up to them. |
| 22:28.26 | sjansen | I also agree that regulating drugs would probably end the violence, but not over night and only if we did it right. |
| 22:29.08 | sjansen | A free for all would probably be a net negative. |
| 22:30.05 | sjansen | A system like the Netherlands, discrete and supervised by medical professions would probably be a net positive. Especially if we replace the prison budget with a treatment budget. |
| 22:31.45 | sjansen | Gangsters aren't known for the business intelligence, and violence isn't known for improving profits. (Ignoring oil, bananas, and chocolate.) |
| 22:32.17 | sjansen | of course, the drub war has been going on a lot longer than prohibition. |
| 22:32.33 | sjansen | Some gangs have learned about supply chains and minimizing overhead. |
| 22:33.14 | sjansen | There's a high probability that at least a couple gangs would become dominate, legitimate competitors. |
| 22:33.30 | JoshH | not overnight, but a lot sooner than the war on drugs, which is never. also, other countries would ahve to legalize them as well |
| 22:33.47 | sjansen | While such an idea is odious, compared to the current situations I'm not sure I can say it would be worse. |
| 22:34.02 | JoshH | but if we had a sensible drug policy, those people in mexico would still have their heads, our ghettos wouldn't be terrible places, schools wouldn't have metal detectors, etc. a lot of things would be so much better |
| 22:34.25 | JoshH | i'd be willing to trade that for having some guy down the block shooting himself up legally |
| 22:34.45 | sjansen | Our current war on drugs is expensive, especially for blacks. |
| 22:35.27 | JoshH | at this point, nobody supports the war on drugs except for extreme social consertives/culture warriors, most law enforcement, and people in the prison industry |
| 22:35.35 | JoshH | and most politicians |
| 22:35.51 | sjansen | Studies have repeatedly shown that childhood poverty is bad for everyone. The child has a small chance of overcoming it, and society has to pay for the consequences be it welfare or prisons. |
| 22:36.01 | JoshH | and even many of them will admit that our approach doesn't work, but support it anyway |
| 22:36.17 | sjansen | But lets ignore just how insane it is to lock up such a giant percentage of our population. |
| 22:36.54 | sjansen | Lets ignore that we give oppressive dictatorships stiff competition when you look at the statistics. |
| 22:37.25 | sjansen | Our "war" on drug is exporting literal war to other countries. |
| 22:37.46 | sjansen | Sure, by hooking up a cash pipeline to Colombia we managed to improve things there. |
| 22:37.49 | JoshH | imo, regardless of how much it bothers you to think that people out there are "ruining their lives" or "being immoral" with drugs, you can't justify the status quo when people are being murdered and entire areas are destroyed as part of the war on them |
| 22:38.04 | sjansen | We managed to move the problem to Equador, Venezuela, and Mexico. |
| 22:38.28 | JoshH | also, it's been the number 1 reason for huge increases in law enforcement's authority and funding |
| 22:38.29 | sjansen | Maybe Equador and Venezuela deserve part of the blame. But Mexico? |
| 22:39.14 | sjansen | Are we sure we want to culture a population of insane, violent criminals right across our southern border? |
| 22:40.36 | sjansen | For those that support the war on drugs: step back and ask yourself what you would do if the situation were more personal. |
| 22:41.21 | sjansen | What would you do if you discovered little Jimmy was shooting up. Would you want him locked up? Or offered treatment with dignity? |
| 22:42.07 | JoshH | plenty of people would think he deserves to be locked up |
| 22:42.11 | JoshH | which is not good |
| 22:43.44 | sjansen | Did Christ say "let he who has cruise missiles fire the first shot", or was the quote a little different? |
| 22:45.28 | JoshH | people just plain don't like "druggies" and like to go to bed knowing that they're rotting in prison cells. the people with their heads cut off are just a semi-unfortunate side effect that's worth it to punish the scum |
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| 23:17.41 | shalkie | jalbretsen: Hi! |
| 23:19.07 | jalbretsen | shalkie: yo |
| 23:19.52 | shalkie | Hows the admin life? |
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| 23:21.02 | jalbretsen | I can't decide if puppet, EPEL / CentOS kernel, or myself is being stupid |
| 23:23.33 | jalbretsen | either way it's treating me well |
| 23:25.57 | shalkie | Thats good to hear. |
| 23:26.31 | shalkie | I wont take sides. :-) |
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| 23:27.22 | jalbretsen | tracked down the "cause" but then I had to leave to teach class, so I still need to figure out the why |
| 23:29.45 | shalkie | Did you cut it off from the precious Dr. Who? |
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