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| 06:24.17 | Gate | Linux 3.0! |
| 06:25.33 | eightyeight | w00t |
| 06:34.41 | Gate | Of course, I distinctly rememeber reading a road map which stated that 3.0 would happen when Torvalds went nuts and rewrote everything in microkernels. |
| 06:35.12 | eightyeight | heh |
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| 06:36.07 | maquis | howdy all... i have a hard drive question if anyone's available |
| 06:36.18 | eightyeight | long time no see |
| 06:36.25 | maquis | eightyeight: hi! |
| 06:36.32 | Gate | maquis: hi! shoot |
| 06:36.33 | maquis | how's it going? |
| 06:36.38 | maquis | hi gate! |
| 06:36.46 | eightyeight | hanging out after having my septoplasty |
| 06:36.55 | eightyeight | can't sleep, so i figure i'll hang out on irc |
| 06:36.58 | maquis | i really do mean to hang out in here more often, but my 20-month-old keeps me busy |
| 06:37.03 | maquis | eightyeight: what's a septoplasty? |
| 06:37.45 | eightyeight | maquis: surgery where they straighten the septum (the tissue that separates your left and right nostrils) |
| 06:37.56 | maquis | so, i've got a drive that was previously a linux drive, and i'm trying to reformat it for my mac to use for time machine |
| 06:38.10 | maquis | eightyeight: ooh... does it hurt? |
| 06:38.29 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: Deviated septum |
| 06:38.29 | eightyeight | actually, not really. lots of pressure, but little to no pain |
| 06:38.34 | eightyeight | Sargun_Screen: yes |
| 06:38.46 | eightyeight | maquis: ok. are you trying to format it with your mac, or with gnu/linux? |
| 06:38.53 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: Disk utility wipe it, and reformat it |
| 06:38.57 | maquis | the problem is, disk utility on the mac keeps failing, so i figured i'd plug it into the linux box... |
| 06:39.14 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: How big is the drive |
| 06:39.29 | maquis | it's giving tons of errors, but i figured that was probably because it had a corrupted filessytem before i started messing with it... and the mac got half-way through re-partitioning before failing |
| 06:39.31 | eightyeight | $ aptitude install hfsplus hfsprogs |
| 06:39.34 | maquis | but, fdisk can't even see it |
| 06:39.43 | maquis | Sargun_Screen: 500GB |
| 06:39.48 | eightyeight | hmm. sounds like it might be a failed drive |
| 06:39.50 | maquis | fdisk says it's unable to read the drive |
| 06:39.54 | Gate | maquis: sounds like disk failure |
| 06:40.04 | maquis | doh... i was hoping it was salvageable |
| 06:40.06 | Gate | maquis: any SMART notifications? |
| 06:40.16 | maquis | gate |
| 06:40.20 | maquis | not sure what that means |
| 06:40.22 | eightyeight | that, or does the bios see it? |
| 06:40.29 | maquis | eightyeight: dmesg lists it |
| 06:40.52 | maquis | i'm geting I/O errors... Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE |
| 06:41.01 | Gate | there is a disk firmware system which can alert of some failures, I have found it moderately helpful in the past |
| 06:41.08 | maquis | Gate: |
| 06:41.13 | maquis | argh... stupid enter key |
| 06:41.28 | maquis | Gate: do you know if seagate external drives hae that? |
| 06:41.29 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: Your adapter is bad, or the drive is bad. |
| 06:41.57 | eightyeight | Sargun_Screen: i think the adapter is ruled out, as it's failing in two separate systems |
| 06:42.25 | maquis | *grumble* |
| 06:42.27 | Gate | maquis: its built into the internal drive's board, and seagates have had it since long before they had a 500gb model |
| 06:42.30 | eightyeight | maquis: is it getting assigned a device? |
| 06:42.39 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: Depends on how it's implemented. |
| 06:42.39 | maquis | eightyeight: yes |
| 06:42.44 | maquis | it's /dev/sdh |
| 06:42.55 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: probably the controller or drive. |
| 06:42.58 | eightyeight | maquis: hdparm(8) might be able to give you some info |
| 06:43.01 | maquis | Gate: hmmm... i don't know anything about that, then... |
| 06:43.05 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: smartctl a /dev/sdh |
| 06:43.14 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: smartctl -a /dev/sdh |
| 06:43.15 | Gate | maquis: I am trying to look up how to check it from linux. The GUI tools in Ubuntu know how to check it |
| 06:43.23 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: Are you still at AMZN? |
| 06:43.26 | eightyeight | Sargun_Screen: sure, if you're referring to the controller. when you say "adapter", i'm thinking of the card on the board, not the drive |
| 06:43.27 | Gate | Sargun_Screen: cool! |
| 06:43.50 | maquis | Sargun_Screen: nah... i quit when my daughter was born |
| 06:43.57 | maquis | gate: i'm on ubuntu... |
| 06:44.21 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: Aw :[ Hubby still there? |
| 06:44.45 | maquis | Sargun_Screen: yeah |
| 06:45.22 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: Employee discount on EC2 / AWS? |
| 06:45.27 | maquis | Sargun_Screen: nope. |
| 06:46.31 | maquis | Smartctl open device: /dev/sdh [SAT] failed: Permission denied |
| 06:46.37 | maquis | wen |
| 06:46.38 | maquis | er |
| 06:46.38 | maquis | erm |
| 06:46.44 | maquis | sudo might help :P |
| 06:46.46 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: Aw :[ |
| 06:47.00 | maquis | Smartctl: Device Read Identity Failed (not an ATA/ATAPI device) |
| 06:47.14 | maquis | Sargun_Screen: yeah... employee discount isn't really something amazon is big on |
| 06:47.57 | eightyeight | maquis: hdparm -I /dev/sdh |
| 06:48.33 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: your best bet is to gut the enclosure, and take out the drive. |
| 06:48.35 | eightyeight | should give you verbose output on the drive's info |
| 06:48.40 | maquis | /dev/sdh: HDIO_DRIVE_CMD(identify) failed: Input/output error |
| 06:48.42 | Sargun_Screen | Buy a 500 G drive of a similar model at the store |
| 06:48.52 | Sargun_Screen | and then put the bad drive in the case, and return it |
| 06:48.55 | eightyeight | maquis: is this an external or internal drive? |
| 06:49.07 | maquis | eightyeight: external -- usb |
| 06:49.12 | Gate | or just bit the $50 bullet and get a new 1 TB WD |
| 06:49.18 | eightyeight | maquis: portable or desktop |
| 06:49.20 | Sargun_Screen | Gate: She has a kid |
| 06:49.24 | maquis | Gate: is WD any good these days? |
| 06:49.27 | eightyeight | Sargun_Screen: good job on the integrity bit |
| 06:49.32 | Sargun_Screen | Gate: Kids are expensive. |
| 06:49.50 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: Hey, you've seen me grow up - I've never been big on that integrity thing |
| 06:49.56 | Gate | maquis: I'm still a fan of their spinning disk drives. Haven't had a chance to see what they are coming up with in the SSD market |
| 06:50.05 | maquis | eightyeight: it's a FreeAgent... it's a small one, but it's on a stand, and not particularly mobile |
| 06:50.23 | maquis | Sargun_Screen: haha... not my style |
| 06:50.46 | maquis | Gate: good to know... for some reason, i've only ever really trusted seagate, but the freeagents had a lot of weird issues on linux |
| 06:50.52 | eightyeight | maquis: i've found "desktop" external drives to be horrid. i've gone through more of them than i care to admit. and it's *always* the boards |
| 06:50.55 | Sargun_Screen | Hitachi for the win, |
| 06:51.19 | maquis | eightyeight: are the portable ones generally better in your experience? |
| 06:51.23 | eightyeight | maquis: i've always purchased western digital. haven't had a single problem with any of the drives |
| 06:51.29 | Gate | maquis: depends on experience :) I've rarely had problems with WD, but it seems like every Seagate wants to kick the bucket after a week in my machines. |
| 06:51.34 | eightyeight | maquis: by leaps and bounds |
| 06:51.41 | Gate | I never buy Seagate anymore |
| 06:51.45 | maquis | good to know... |
| 06:52.00 | Gate | I've bought WD and a few Hitachi's because of the good price/gb |
| 06:52.05 | maquis | looks like i'll be figuring out which drive to get... :) |
| 06:52.08 | eightyeight | maquis: in the desktop externals, i eventually just started taking out the drives, and putting them in portable enclosures |
| 06:52.32 | eightyeight | the boards are just crap, imo, and i don't know why. odd really |
| 06:52.44 | Sargun_Screen | Gate: I bought Hitachi because of the Deathstar experience. |
| 06:52.54 | Gate | ...? |
| 06:52.56 | Sargun_Screen | I had 10+ deathstars fail in production. |
| 06:53.17 | Sargun_Screen | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitachi_Deskstar#Deskstar_failures |
| 06:53.21 | Sargun_Screen | The IBM Deskstar 75GXP (as well as several other models made around the same time) became infamous for their reportedly high failure rates.[2] This led to the drives being colloquially referred to as "Deathstars".[3] Due to this, the drives were ranked 18th in PC World's "Worst Tech Products of All Time" feature in 2006.[4][5] |
| 06:53.47 | Sargun_Screen | IBM/Hitachi completely retooled their QA/production process after that |
| 06:53.50 | Gate | wow. |
| 06:54.09 | eightyeight | heh |
| 06:54.24 | Gate | is suddenly glad that no one hitachi has the sole copy of anything |
| 06:54.30 | eightyeight | maquis: a word to the wise about the new "advanced format" drives |
| 06:54.39 | maquis | eightyeight: ? |
| 06:55.01 | maquis | wishes she could justify getting a time capsule, but they are *way* too expensive |
| 06:55.11 | Gate | well, its past my expiration date. night all. GL maquis. |
| 06:55.40 | maquis | Gate: gnight |
| 06:55.46 | eightyeight | they all read/write in 4096 bytes, instead of 512, which means that when partitioning the drive in gnu/linux, the partition sizes must be a factor of 4096 |
| 06:55.54 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: GPT drives? >2G? |
| 06:56.05 | eightyeight | same goes with raid, lvm, and your filesystem |
| 06:56.18 | eightyeight | if not, you'll get severe performance degrgation |
| 06:56.30 | maquis | eightyeight: interesting... |
| 06:56.31 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: make sure your system does EFI/GPT if you want to utilize a drive >2G! |
| 06:56.39 | maquis | any idea whether that would cause problems for mac? |
| 06:56.51 | eightyeight | maquis: with that said, mac os x is smart enough to handle it without any manual intervention |
| 06:57.03 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: Which mac? |
| 06:57.04 | eightyeight | It Just Works |
| 06:57.07 | maquis | eightyeight: ok... i'm looking at using this exclusively with my mac, so... |
| 06:57.12 | maquis | Sargun_Screen: 13" air |
| 06:57.28 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: What Mac OS X edition? When did you buy it? |
| 06:57.31 | Sargun_Screen | 10.5? |
| 06:57.35 | Sargun_Screen | er, .4 |
| 06:58.02 | maquis | Sargun_Screen: got lion overnight last night... got the computer last november |
| 06:58.21 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: It'll support it just fine |
| 06:58.24 | maquis | it came with snow leopard |
| 06:58.31 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: Why not do your storage in the cloud? |
| 06:58.39 | eightyeight | ugh |
| 06:58.52 | eightyeight | if the cloud is 3rd party, that is |
| 06:59.08 | maquis | Sargun_Screen: because i haven't automated all the encryption i want to do in order to do stoage there |
| 06:59.18 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: dm-crypt FTW. |
| 06:59.36 | maquis | i've got some particularly important items encrypted and in S3, but most stuff just hasn't made it there... |
| 06:59.52 | eightyeight | 3rd party cloud storage has clearly shown that they can not be counted on, one way or another |
| 07:00.17 | eightyeight | and we've had the tools for years to do our own "cloud storage" on your local network. disk is so cheap, it's silly not to consider it |
| 07:00.18 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: I disagree. I utilize cloud storage for critical, business intelligence services. |
| 07:00.39 | Sargun_Screen | (Yeah, I just pulled out the buzz words, WHAT ARE GUNNA DO ABOUT IT?) |
| 07:00.46 | eightyeight | Sargun_Screen: you disagree with amazon having issues? dropbox insecurity? lastpass? ... |
| 07:01.37 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: I use S3 for backing up, and it works great. |
| 07:01.49 | eightyeight | when it's not down. ã |
| 07:01.53 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: All our business intelligence reporting is in s3 + EBS |
| 07:02.13 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: I've never had trouble getting to my data in production. |
| 07:02.19 | eightyeight | to each their own |
| 07:02.36 | eightyeight | 3rd party cloud storage providers have proven to me that they are not reliable |
| 07:03.26 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: If you look at TCO over three years of maintaining 150G of storage (reliably), with quick pushing around... S3 is cheaper. |
| 07:03.31 | Sargun_Screen | and easier! |
| 07:03.55 | maquis | eightyeight: i think they are nice for off-site backup, where it may not be time-critical to get to them. something to protect important information in case of flood/fire/natural disaster, I think it's pretty good for |
| 07:03.58 | eightyeight | that's the ticket right there- it's easier |
| 07:04.23 | eightyeight | no one is interested in putty any effort into much these days. we've become too lazy |
| 07:04.33 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: A part time sysadmin to verify the backups costs way more than $15/mo |
| 07:05.30 | eightyeight | maquis: or, you can do offsite by storing the encrypted disk at your parents, or a bank safety deposit box. :) |
| 07:06.09 | eightyeight | anyway |
| 07:06.10 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: Bank safety deposit boxes are annoying |
| 07:06.19 | maquis | eightyeight: my parents live less than a mile from us, and most major disasters would probably hit us both :P I don't trust other relatives... :P |
| 07:06.31 | Sargun_Screen | maquis: datasafe? |
| 07:06.44 | maquis | Sargun_Screen: haven't looked into it |
| 07:06.48 | maquis | i don't mind s3 |
| 07:07.06 | eightyeight | maquis: short of a bomb dropping on your house, in all reality, a fire-proof safe would be sufficient for most disasters |
| 07:07.14 | maquis | eightyeight: true |
| 07:07.28 | maquis | but hey... i have to show some company loyalty over here... :P |
| 07:07.33 | eightyeight | heh |
| 07:07.46 | maquis | and honestly, amazon is one company i do actually trust pretty highly |
| 07:07.52 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: a robber? |
| 07:08.10 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: Getting raided? |
| 07:08.34 | eightyeight | and? |
| 07:09.09 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: Those are my two biggest worries. |
| 07:09.13 | eightyeight | ok |
| 07:09.19 | Sargun_Screen | apart from the standard drive failure stuff. |
| 07:09.53 | maquis | ok... i've got an early riser for a daughter, so i better get to bed. thanks for the help, everyone!!! :) |
| 07:10.07 | eightyeight | goodnight |
| 07:10.41 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: What's your data retention policy? |
| 07:10.54 | eightyeight | personal or professional? |
| 07:11.20 | Sargun_Screen | both |
| 07:12.28 | eightyeight | personal: indefinite. everything gets backed up to a 3TB raid nightly, which in turn gets archived to a 3tb encrypted disk, and stored in a fire-proof safe at my parents, 10 miles away, once per week |
| 07:13.02 | eightyeight | professional: weekly full backups and nightly incrementals are stored to tape, which get sent offsite for 3 months, before returning to shelf |
| 07:13.13 | Sargun_Screen | How do you handle incrementals? |
| 07:13.16 | Sargun_Screen | (personally) |
| 07:13.34 | eightyeight | rsync(1) |
| 07:15.07 | Sargun_Screen | neat |
| 07:18.02 | eightyeight | i think it's about time i publish my blog post on best openssh practices. it's been a draft for far too long |
| 07:21.25 | Sargun_Screen | eightyeight: Best security practices: kill -9 -1? |
| 07:23.31 | eightyeight | i'll have a link for you in a minute, if you're still awake |
| 07:24.53 | Sargun_Screen | I don't sleep very much |
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| 07:48.28 | eightyeight | Sargun_Screen: http://pthree.org/?p=1930 |
| 07:51.15 | Sargun_Screen | ECC? |
| 07:51.18 | Sargun_Screen | This is new to me. |
| 07:51.36 | eightyeight | elliptic curve crypto |
| 07:51.46 | eightyeight | supported only in openssh 5.7 and later |
| 07:51.59 | eightyeight | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic_curve_cryptography |
| 07:52.39 | Sargun_Screen | A new type of Asymmetric cryptography? |
| 07:52.39 | eightyeight | typo |
| 07:52.45 | Sargun_Screen | It blows my mind |
| 07:53.34 | eightyeight | ecc is cool, no doubt. it doesn't use prime number factorization to build the private and public keys |
| 07:54.15 | eightyeight | so, it doesn't suffer many of the weaknesses that other algs do |
| 07:54.35 | Sargun_Screen | Interesting |
| 07:54.41 | Sargun_Screen | I'll heave to read up on it. |
| 07:55.41 | eightyeight | and, it is said that the bit strength of ecc is 4x stronger than rsa. thus, a 256-bit ecc key is equivalent to a 1024-bit rsa key |
| 07:55.51 | eightyeight | and, it's fast |
| 07:55.57 | eightyeight | anyway, cool stuff |
| 07:56.52 | eightyeight | one odd thing about ecc, are the bit sizes: 256, 384 and 521 |
| 07:57.12 | eightyeight | yes, 521, and not 512. i'm not sure i understand why either |
| 07:57.21 | Sargun_Screen | 521.... |
| 07:58.15 | eightyeight | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic_curve_cryptography#NIST-recommended_elliptic_curves |
| 07:58.23 | eightyeight | odd bit sizes there |
| 07:58.38 | Sargun_Screen | even. |
| 07:59.47 | eightyeight | odd and even. (: |
| 08:01.44 | eightyeight | Fri Jul 22 02:01:44 MDT 2011 |
| 08:01.51 | eightyeight | i think it's time i hit the sack, if i can |
| 08:18.18 | levi | Awesome Decemberists performance, but the Twilight Concert Series crowd is pretty lame. |
| 08:19.27 | Sargun_Screen | Fri Jul 22 01:19:26 PDT 2011 |
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| 17:16.54 | emcnabb | ~lart sjansen |
| 17:16.54 | ibot | pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps sjansen |
| 17:16.57 | emcnabb | ~lart elg |
| 17:16.57 | ibot | slams elg against a large cement Tux |
| 17:18.14 | eightyeight | -lart emcnabb |
| 17:18.14 | brac | puts lye in emcnabb's coffee |
| 17:18.31 | emcnabb | ~whaleslap eightyeight |
| 17:18.31 | ibot | ACTION beats eightyeight upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 17:20.16 | sjansen | ~hug emcnabb |
| 17:20.16 | ibot | ACTION jumps into emcnabb's lap and huggles and *hugs* emcnabb |
| 17:20.48 | eightyeight | ~whalepoop sjansen |
| 17:20.48 | ibot | ACTION catapults a truckload of whale poop from a freakishly large killer whale named Hugh at sjansen |
| 17:20.49 | emcnabb | pushes ibot back towards sjansen |
| 17:22.13 | sjansen | thinks that emcnabb and eightyeight should be given a choice between timeout and nap time |
| 17:22.29 | emcnabb | sjansen, oh... I'll take nap time! |
| 17:22.59 | eightyeight | i'm already in timeout |
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| 19:09.28 | sjansen | http://www.slashgear.com/mock-t-mobile-commercials-poke-fun-at-att-deal-20166483/ |
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| 22:19.33 | eightyeight | in vim(1), why does '3J' not function the same as 'JJJ'? |
| 22:19.47 | eightyeight | it only joins 3 lines, instead of 4 |
| 22:20.03 | lukfugl | huh |
| 22:20.27 | lukfugl | yeah, that's weird |
| 22:20.43 | lukfugl | especially comparing 1J and 2J (they do the same thing) |
| 22:21.11 | lukfugl | must be special cased to be more (read: less) "intuitive" |
| 22:23.16 | eightyeight | even '0J' does the same as '1J' and '2J' |
| 22:23.21 | eightyeight | i call that abug |
| 22:23.25 | lukfugl | heh |
| 22:23.25 | eightyeight | s/ab/a b/ |
| 22:25.41 | eightyeight | it appears that the number is the goal line's one, not the amount of times to do the action, which is not what the manpage states |
| 22:56.02 | eightyeight | found http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/dist/nvi/vi/v_ex.c?rev=1.4&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&only_with_tag=MAIN |
| 22:56.05 | brac | [src/dist/nvi/vi/v_ex.c - view - 1.4] |
| 22:56.06 | eightyeight | search for 'v_join' |
| 22:56.24 | eightyeight | netbsd vi(1), but suffers from the same illogic |
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| 22:58.06 | eightyeight | so, it appears that 'count' can mean two things: the number of lines, as in our case with 'J' or the number of times to repeat the command |
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| 23:10.41 | resplin | I just noticed that my neighbor's company made it on Mashable: |
| 23:10.43 | resplin | http://mashable.com/2011/07/19/tribalfish/ |
| 23:10.50 | resplin | Go Lindon Utah! |
| 23:42.52 | Sargun_Screen | Lindon Labs? |
| 23:43.05 | Sargun_Screen | Anyone here work for J-tAC? |