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| 07:12.55 | Gate | Is it a bad idea to pick a fight with the city because they told me to do something I was going to do anyway? |
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| 08:09.37 | RyanE | Depends on the city. |
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| 14:57.14 | zarbula | Gate: I happen to work for one of Utah's cities, if you care to elaborate :) |
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| 16:57.33 | Gate | meh. They just sent me a very thinly veiled threat telling me to cut my weeds (which I had already started) |
| 16:57.46 | Gate | I just dont respond well to authority |
| 16:58.36 | JoshH | Gate: that's clearly just what the second amendment was meant for |
| 16:59.46 | Gate | Fight the MAN! |
| 17:00.11 | Gate | oh wait, I value my time more than that.... Hire an immigrant worker! |
| 17:00.22 | goozbach | Gate: light em on fire |
| 17:00.25 | goozbach | burn the weeds |
| 17:00.54 | Gate | I have the lovely vision of watching this godforsaken house burn to the ground...... but my insurance agent would get all pissy. |
| 17:00.57 | goozbach | when they come to give you gruff about not having a burn permit tell them you are handling the reqest to manage the weeds |
| 17:01.14 | goozbach | you can rent a propane weed burner |
| 17:01.17 | goozbach | pretty cheap |
| 17:02.11 | JoshH | http://www.reddit.com/r/firstworldproblems |
| 17:04.43 | Gate | "I have the totality of human knowledge at my fingertips but I am bored." |
| 17:04.47 | Gate | ^ awesome |
| 17:07.46 | tristanbob_ | JoshH, those are funny |
| 17:09.02 | JoshH | makes me realize we don't have it all that bad here, compared to the places where they walk 10 miles for water |
| 17:10.16 | tristanbob_ | JoshH, so true |
| 17:10.45 | Gate | Don't worry, the government is trying to make us just like them again.... |
| 17:10.48 | JoshH | the microwave not being reset so i can't tell the time one angers me all the time |
| 17:10.53 | Gate | there goes that problem with authority again. |
| 17:11.32 | JoshH | well i don't like authority either, but for a note like that i'd probably just toss it and forget it |
| 17:12.03 | JoshH | i'd rather get worked up about the liquor socialism here |
| 17:12.20 | Gate | Its irrelevant. I have to do it anyway, I just don't like orders. I am not petty enough to not take care of my yard because someone told me to do it. |
| 17:13.13 | Gate | JoshH: hear hear. They make it inconvenient to get my 1 bottle of vodka a year! |
| 17:15.03 | JoshH | you get one every single year? that's some raging alcoholism |
| 17:15.36 | Gate | nah, I usually end up spilling a bunch or hosting thanksgiving (alcohol makes my family tolerable) |
| 17:17.47 | Gate | Of course, its hilarious that one of the only things the state shouldn't be doing is one of the things they are making money off of and yet they still want to chop it down to excessive uselessness. |
| 17:20.06 | JoshH | there are only about 3 legislators who are really that nutty about it, but they have too much clout |
| 17:20.31 | JoshH | waddoups is in trouble now over the grama bill though, hopefully he's gone soon |
| 17:20.49 | JoshH | the tea party might be useful for once if they can get rid of him :P |
| 17:21.09 | Gate | Its bizarre how Utah can be one of the most tolerant in some areas and the most draconian in others. |
| 17:21.23 | Gate | Explicable, but bizarre nonetheless |
| 17:21.25 | eightyeight | heh |
| 17:21.55 | JoshH | they should open brigham's old brewery back up, and be like the monks in belgium |
| 17:22.05 | JoshH | no drinking, but making great beer for the rest |
| 17:22.45 | eightyeight | speaking of beer, here's a question: if you're mormon, would it be against your religion to be a beer vendor? |
| 17:23.07 | eightyeight | going to grocery stores, convenient stores, etc, stocking the beer case, even if you don't drink yourself |
| 17:23.09 | JoshH | it definitely wouldn't be against the rules |
| 17:23.37 | JoshH | that's why cafe rio won't get a beer license though |
| 17:23.55 | JoshH | the cafe rio's in other states are open on sunday |
| 17:24.01 | eightyeight | it could be said you're promoting the sale of beer- encouraging others to drink |
| 17:24.05 | jsmith | eightyeight: What about buying a beer for your buddy? |
| 17:24.14 | eightyeight | jsmith: i don't know |
| 17:24.22 | eightyeight | what do you think? |
| 17:24.52 | eightyeight | being a beer vendor is an honest job, and in today's economy, it might be all you can get |
| 17:24.52 | JoshH | i can't imagine why you would think that's wrong |
| 17:25.12 | jsmith | I try not to be judgmental :-) |
| 17:25.37 | JoshH | people can choose to not believe in yoru religion and drink and there's nothing wrong with enabling it, since other than a particular technicality in your church's rules, there's nothing inherently morally wrong with it |
| 17:26.42 | Gate | It hinges on whether you consider acohol and its effects "evil" |
| 17:27.07 | JoshH | i think only an extremist would go that far |
| 17:27.39 | JoshH | obviously nobody thinks a serious drunkard is ok, but it's the same thing with a 500 pounder that has too much ice cream |
| 17:28.04 | eightyeight | or a skunk that smokes? |
| 17:28.14 | JoshH | yes |
| 17:28.15 | Gate | JoshH: Actually, I think that view has been rather prevalent. It certainly is a prevelant attitude amonst some about marijuana. |
| 17:29.09 | Gate | The opinion of its evil pushes (at least partially) abolitionism of both substances |
| 17:30.07 | shalkie | Rockwell Porter apparently had a great little brewery down where the state pen is in draper. |
| 17:30.07 | JoshH | i think most religious people think it's somethign that needs to be carefully regulated, becuase they're afraid of it, but they dont' consider it inherently evil and realize that almost all normal people in normal places can have it and control themselves |
| 17:30.42 | shalkie | s/Rockwell Porter/Porter Rockwell/ |
| 17:30.45 | JoshH | if someone told me alcohol was just plain evil, i'd consider them pretty extreme |
| 17:31.41 | JoshH | all the mormons that i know tell me they think our liquor laws are stupid |
| 17:34.30 | Gate | I'm not talking about in Utah, I am thinking bible belt where there are still dry counties. |
| 17:35.14 | JoshH | it's the same principle there though |
| 17:35.26 | JoshH | they just do things a little differently |
| 17:36.09 | JoshH | i was reading something about how a lot of those (usually small in area) counties are still dry because of political power of liquor business owners at key county line spots |
| 17:37.31 | JoshH | i read about another county or city somewhere that had some kind of blue law about sunday shopping, and some local busines owners grouped up and told the politicans that if they didn't change the law, they would all support their opponents as fully as possible, and they did change it |
| 17:38.32 | JoshH | texas has dry counties, but in a major city you can get any kind of beer you want at kroger, and the counties are pretty tiny compared to a western state |
| 17:39.00 | JoshH | and of course there's not a quota on licenses for restaurants that prevents new chains from opening in the state |
| 17:39.15 | JoshH | it's just completely retarded here |
| 17:40.10 | JoshH | if the whole thing with closing stores due to budget cuts which will actually cost the state millions of dollars doesn't convince people here of how dumb our setup is, i don't think anything will |
| 17:41.10 | shalkie | Our liqour laws really aren't that bad. I was just in MD and it is up to the counties. The county I was in, and its neighbor, you couldn't purchase any alcohol except from a liqour store or in a restaurant. And this was in the "Baltimore" area. |
| 17:41.29 | JoshH | they are bad, just in different ways |
| 17:41.33 | shalkie | Mass, if I remember correctly, has a similiar rule but the liqour stores also close really early. |
| 17:41.39 | JoshH | in particular though, they're the worst when it comes to beer |
| 17:42.07 | JoshH | we have the smallest selection of beers available at stores, and available on tap, by far |
| 17:42.38 | JoshH | but frankly i don't think the other states with messed up laws are what we should compare ourselves to |
| 17:42.49 | JoshH | if were like idaho or colorado or wyoming i'd be happy |
| 17:43.23 | JoshH | you don't want to be considered the western version of mississippi when are you trying to attract tourism and business |
| 17:44.01 | JoshH | on one hand they say we are one of the best states for business, but on other hand, buffalo wild wing decided to skip over expanding to this state over the license issue, and they estimated that would have been 1000 restaurant jobs |
| 17:44.32 | Gate | screw attracting tourism and business, how about having a law which isn't an attempt by the states to control the personal habits of individuals? |
| 17:44.34 | JoshH | and i have a friend who works at microsoft, and there were a couple times they talked about basing a project here and moving some people down, but too many workers were against moving here and threatened to quit over it |
| 17:44.47 | shalkie | Heh. I haven't found it to be a short selection and if a business wants a particular brand of beer they can always get the state liquor store to order it. |
| 17:45.05 | shalkie | It might require a larger order though. ;-) |
| 17:45.12 | JoshH | the new bill john valentine passed will make sure city creek center can get a few licenses, but not much improvement for the rest of the state |
| 17:45.59 | JoshH | shalkie: there are a ton of smaller breweries that will not deal with the state on special orders. even places like the bayou can really only get a small number of things that the state doesn't normally carry |
| 17:46.29 | JoshH | i've tried to special orders twice through the state and both times they told me the breweries didn't even want to talk about navigating their stupid purchasing system |
| 17:46.50 | JoshH | (for a one time order, anyway) |
| 17:47.08 | shalkie | I would be happy to see the DABC disbanned. I think it hurts our local, award winning, breweries and wineries. Technically they have to sell it to the state and the state is suppose to try and sell it to outside interests. Though they have done a bad job of that in the past. |
| 17:47.25 | JoshH | exactly |
| 17:47.26 | shalkie | Yeah, I agree it is a bad setup for small orders. |
| 17:47.36 | JoshH | plus, having to buy it warm and old and dusty isn't nice either |
| 17:48.21 | JoshH | it's funny to hear the park city tourists at the liquor store there ask the clerks why all the beer is warm and piled on the floor |
| 17:48.39 | JoshH | and when they get home, that's the kind of thing they tell their friends about |
| 17:49.03 | shalkie | As far as I know there isn't a reason that they couldn't refrigirate it, they just choose not to. |
| 17:49.21 | JoshH | that's true, they always decide not to budget for it when it comes up |
| 17:49.27 | shalkie | But I have been in several liqour stores where the bulk of their stock is handled the same way. |
| 17:49.31 | JoshH | some of the privately owned package agencies in tiny towns do have fridgds |
| 17:49.48 | shalkie | Really? I haven't been to those. That is a cool thing. |
| 17:50.06 | JoshH | usually in a store in another state, there is a good amount in the fridge, so if you want to buy it cold you can, and there is also a lot of other stuff that's warm if you don't care |
| 17:50.19 | JoshH | it's impossible to have room in a cooler for your whole stock |
| 17:51.41 | JoshH | when shurtleff got the alcopops moved into the liquor stores, they talked about the issue, because those apparently go bad faster than beer when warm, and they said it would cost 10k per store to add fridges, and decided not to do it |
| 17:52.19 | JoshH | if it wasn't socialized, it wouldn't have to be up to the state to fund something like that |
| 17:53.08 | shalkie | I like to think of them as an excuse to take a weekend off in Evanston, Wendover or Preston. :-) |
| 17:53.44 | JoshH | it's hard to understand how even those who would want all alcohol in liquor stores, age limits, decent taxes, etc, could possibly think it's somethign the state should handle the retailing of, with all that overhead and everything |
| 17:54.05 | JoshH | indeed |
| 17:54.50 | JoshH | then don't even get me started on the ban on kegs |
| 17:54.52 | JoshH | sighs |
| 17:58.11 | shalkie | ~comfort JoshH |
| 17:58.11 | ibot | There, there, JoshH. It's OK. I'm here for you. |
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| 18:03.22 | shalkie | Well that one was a new one. Just got a call following up "on a form submitted that someone in the household has diabetes..." |
| 18:03.40 | shalkie | Been nothing but spam calls today. |
| 18:35.53 | zarbula | Gate: tl;dr everything, but I had HAZE get after me on weeds before. If your in salt lake, they'll threaten you, then give you a good 100 dollar or so fine. |
| 18:36.21 | JoshH | what's HAZE? |
| 18:36.48 | zarbula | Housing Authority Zoning Enforcment. |
| 18:36.55 | JoshH | ah |
| 18:37.00 | zarbula | the bitches who get after you for shit like weeds. |
| 18:37.52 | JoshH | i think being a compliance inspector type would be a miserable job |
| 18:38.01 | JoshH | not as bad as parking lot cashier though |
| 18:38.03 | zarbula | If you have HAZE getting after you on weeds, it means one of your neighbors is a busy-body.. happens to me. |
| 18:38.26 | zarbula | JoshH: what about the programmer who builds the reports for that job :/ kinda what I do hehe. |
| 18:41.17 | fozzmoo | Wow. I didn't know about other states with liquor stores. |
| 18:41.31 | fozzmoo | I just assumed all non-Utah states were sane. :) |
| 18:41.42 | jsmith | fozzmoo: Nope... Virginia has them as well |
| 18:43.00 | zarbula | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage_control_state |
| 18:43.22 | zarbula | 20 out of 50 states I guess :o |
| 18:44.20 | JoshH | i've never been to a state owned store in another state, but from what I understand, they are are more plentiful and convenient than the ones here, the majority of them are for liquor only and beer remains free, they don't have the same 86% markup ours do, only a few are closed on sunday, etc |
| 18:45.01 | JoshH | the fact that you can only get liquor, normal strength beer, and wine at like 30 different places in this whole metro area, is not typical for america overall |
| 18:45.56 | zarbula | I wish it was only on <14% at state run stores, so I can just buy wine at Smiths at night. |
| 18:46.19 | zarbula | sounds like a much better system. |
| 18:47.07 | JoshH | also, in states that don't allow liquor in grocery stores, there is usually a liquor store directly adjacent to the grocery store, in a separate room in the grocery store, or in the same strip mall |
| 18:47.33 | JoshH | when you make comparison's like "a few other states also own the stores, so we're not that bad", it misses a lot of important points |
| 18:48.12 | fozzmoo | I know some Tea Party-esque legislators that are working on getting rid of the state liquor stores. |
| 18:48.41 | fozzmoo | JoshH: Say what you want about Carl Wimmer, but he's on your side with regard to the state liquor stores. :) |
| 18:49.10 | JoshH | fozzmoo: i've heard a little bit about a privatization push beginning to form, and i didn't know wimmer supported that, but that makes me like him more :) |
| 18:49.17 | zarbula | To be replaced by what state-ran revenue source? |
| 18:49.39 | zarbula | state doesn't cut budget, no way it could happen :) |
| 18:50.05 | JoshH | from what i've heard, most of the talk has only been about selling the stores themselves to private owners while keep the state the warehousing and wholesaling side, but still, baby steps |
| 18:50.36 | JoshH | zarbula: they would have to be willing to stop trying to discourage drinking, so they could get about the same revenue from increased private sales |
| 18:50.36 | fozzmoo | I would think the gains in lost overhead costs would easily supplant the revenue loss. |
| 18:50.39 | JoshH | that's the tough part |
| 18:50.53 | zarbula | Just remove the whole system and convert the stores into medical marijuana dispensary I say. |
| 18:51.01 | JoshH | but also, losing that overhead would also increase margins |
| 18:51.09 | JoshH | but if they kept the wholesale costs the same, it would be more expensive for consumers |
| 18:51.33 | zarbula | dispensaries* |
| 18:51.52 | JoshH | fozzmoo: honestly once waddoups and valentine are both gone, i think we'll see some reasonable ideas gain traction |
| 18:52.14 | fozzmoo | "establishment" GOP guys. |
| 18:52.26 | fozzmoo | A la Chris Cannon, et al. |
| 18:52.29 | zarbula | JoshH: sounds like a good idea, it really does. I'll have to look more at the bills coming in. |
| 18:53.05 | zarbula | JoshH: The removal of private clubs was a good first step to that :) |
| 18:53.07 | JoshH | we also need a governor to push for changes, like huntsman did |
| 18:53.13 | JoshH | herbert definitely doesn't care about it |
| 18:53.49 | fozzmoo | The establishment GOP folks HATE the Tea Party folks. But 2010 definitely pushed the Utah GOP more toward libertarianism and away from Moral Majorityhood. |
| 18:53.49 | JoshH | it's amazing how so many people here bash huntsman for being too liberal, when he was basically the perfect moderate, and had like an 85% approval rating |
| 18:54.07 | JoshH | i would vote for huntsman for president in a heartbeat |
| 18:54.13 | fozzmoo | shudders |
| 18:54.14 | JoshH | and i never vote republican |
| 18:54.57 | Gate | Huntsman... he wansn't bad from what little I paid attention to him. He did seem like a used car salesman in person, though. |
| 18:55.13 | JoshH | i can see him being weird in person, and he definitely looks at least as plastic as romney |
| 18:55.27 | Gate | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-politics/8236225/US-ambassador-to-China-hints-at-2012-presidential-bid.html |
| 18:55.30 | JoshH | but as far as politicians go he's very likeable |
| 18:55.31 | Gate | ^ lol |
| 18:56.47 | JoshH | my main complaint with huntsman is that be bailed too soon after the second election, and inflicted gary upon us |
| 18:56.59 | zarbula | ha |
| 18:57.16 | zarbula | my main complaint has always been the Environmental policies.. |
| 18:59.21 | JoshH | why? he seemed relatively moderate and common sense about it to me |
| 19:00.36 | zarbula | I staffed for former mayor Rocky Anderson and I recall a lot of grief over Rocky Mountain's posistion with Huntman with the development of the 3rd coal refinery for Utah. |
| 19:01.51 | JoshH | well, rocky wasn't known for his ability to compromise |
| 19:01.58 | Migs | Jessica Boyle, a fourth grade teacher at Sewells Point Elementary School in Norfolk, Virginia divided her class according to race and held a mock slave auction on April 1 as part of her lesson on the Civil War. She sent black and mixed race students to one side of the classroom and then allowed the white students to take turns buying them. |
| 19:01.59 | Migs | HAHAHAHA |
| 19:02.07 | JoshH | i liked him, but he was just enough of an extremist to have a hard time being productive |
| 19:02.08 | Migs | that's hilariously stupid |
| 19:02.22 | JoshH | and i resent him to this day for keeping utopia out of slc |
| 19:02.32 | zarbula | ^ |
| 19:02.48 | zarbula | That's more of the SLC Council's fault over the mayor though. |
| 19:03.04 | JoshH | the council became more responsible for it later on |
| 19:03.13 | JoshH | but rocky was against it from the start |
| 19:03.53 | zarbula | Yeah, well Salt Lake is way in bed with Qwest, and Qwest was still promising deilvery of Fiber for residents at that time. |
| 19:04.03 | zarbula | 2011, and still not fiber :( |
| 19:04.08 | zarbula | no* |
| 19:04.32 | JoshH | rockys exact quote was "people should be outside exercising instead of being online downloading illegal files" |
| 19:04.43 | rsimpkins | I got qwest FTTN last month. It was terrible. I'll never do business with those clowns again. |
| 19:05.06 | rsimpkins | JoshH: I'd agree with that. |
| 19:05.21 | JoshH | what part |
| 19:05.29 | zarbula | rsimpkins: thinking of getting comcast business class, like it? |
| 19:05.32 | rsimpkins | Doing something else besides downloading illegal files. |
| 19:05.45 | rsimpkins | zarbula: Comcast's latency is horrific. |
| 19:05.47 | JoshH | but when you do download files, it should be with fiber |
| 19:06.02 | rsimpkins | JoshH: Ideally, yes. |
| 19:06.11 | zarbula | rsimpkins: bummer, what other choice do I have for high speed net in salt lake metro? |
| 19:06.26 | JoshH | utopia, if you're in the right part of murray |
| 19:06.38 | rsimpkins | zarbula: Is there anyplace in America with true competitive choices? |
| 19:06.47 | zarbula | rsimpkins: deep. |
| 19:06.49 | rsimpkins | zarbula: If you can get non-FTTN with qwest, that's good. |
| 19:07.05 | rsimpkins | Then get xmission or something as the provider. |
| 19:07.14 | zarbula | I wish Utopia. but I live near 9th and 9th. |
| 19:07.29 | rsimpkins | FTTN lets qwest lock out the competitors from DSL, which is why they are pushing for it so hard. |
| 19:07.55 | zarbula | rsimpkins: 1.5mb pipe though the reason I haven't gone with qwest in the past.. if they can give me 15+, the web tool doesn't think I can get it. |
| 19:08.07 | shalkie | I live in murray and I can't get Utopia. They were suppose to start a new build out campaign this month. I wonder if that has happened at all. |
| 19:08.22 | JoshH | shalkie: it's happening fairly soon afaik |
| 19:08.31 | rsimpkins | zarbula: You probably can't. I'm on rapidwave, and while I don't have much bandwidth I have very, very low latency. |
| 19:08.35 | JoshH | shalkie: i moved to murray and made sure my house could get it before i made the offer |
| 19:08.45 | rsimpkins | zarbula: 15ms to plug.org. |
| 19:09.14 | rsimpkins | zarbula: Comcast is 80-100, qwest FTTN (when it works) is 60ms, and 350ms when it doesn't. |
| 19:09.15 | zarbula | I just pulled 45ms... |
| 19:09.26 | rsimpkins | zarbula: Who with? |
| 19:09.30 | zarbula | rsimpkins: comcast |
| 19:09.43 | rsimpkins | zarbula: To a traceroute and see where the bits flow. |
| 19:09.47 | rsimpkins | *Do |
| 19:12.05 | zarbula | rsimpkins: trace just stops with my router for some reason. |
| 19:12.53 | zarbula | rsimpkins: I'll have to figure out why, just running Untangle with mostly default settings right now. |
| 19:16.46 | *** join/#utah KevinRandolph_ (~krandolph@fw.oremut02.us.wh.verio.net) |
| 19:17.09 | zarbula | Yeah, ICMP traffic is all out of wack. I'll fix it later. |
| 19:17.50 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@12.68.178.2) |
| 19:17.57 | JoshH | some traceroute implementations don't use icmp, try mtr instead (its better) |
| 19:19.21 | shalkie | For fun you could also use tcptraceroute. :-) |
| 19:19.39 | shalkie | But mtr is a rockin' awesome program. |
| 19:20.14 | zarbula | JoshH: mtr is cool! |
| 19:20.30 | zarbula | JoshH: thanks for the tip :) |
| 19:21.28 | JoshH | also, sudo traceroute -I |
| 19:22.31 | zarbula | rsimpkins: mtr pastebin dump! http://pastebin.com/hh8uyaJr |
| 19:24.07 | JoshH | denver and back and san jose and back is quite normal for getting from one utah place to another, depending on the providers |
| 19:24.38 | sjansen | is disappointed that F16 won't be a beefy miracle :-( |
| 19:24.43 | shalkie | I like the San Jose / LA trips. |
| 19:25.14 | shalkie | They seem to be very reliable. |
| 19:31.56 | sjansen | http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/journal/aussies-grow-worlds-hottest-chilli.htm |
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| 22:24.41 | stderr- | Jayce^: presumably you're gonna be at Battlefield Utah? |
| 22:24.49 | fozzmoo | heh. |
| 22:25.37 | stderr- | hands fozzmoo a lozenge |
| 22:25.59 | fozzmoo | chokes |
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