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| 00:19.13 | eightyeight | silly fedora fanboys |
| 00:25.20 | sontek | ubuntu: That 1 cousin that always means well but always ends up in jail for silly stuff |
| 00:25.35 | sontek | Unity is the end of Ubuntu :P |
| 00:25.55 | eightyeight | or the beginning of market share > 1% |
| 00:26.06 | eightyeight | time will tell |
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| 00:27.38 | sontek | I haven't been happy with gnome shell or unity, so hopefully they both improve soon |
| 00:27.58 | eightyeight | they're both effectively 1.0 releases |
| 00:28.14 | eightyeight | it is a bit concerning that unity doesn't have a standard gnome fallback, however |
| 00:29.03 | sontek | Ubuntu really should wait 1 release and give Unity some time to mature before they ship with it |
| 00:29.33 | eightyeight | agreed. put it in the repo, let people play with it, report back, hack, etc |
| 00:29.42 | sontek | Ubuntu didn't gain market share by packaging buggy software :P |
| 00:30.12 | sontek | It was the first "Just works" distro and now they are reverting back to how Linux used to be :P |
| 00:30.34 | eightyeight | mmm, yes and no |
| 00:31.11 | sontek | I'm all for innovation but they need to innovate like the rest of us do... maintain backwards compatibility while innovating :P |
| 00:31.12 | eightyeight | canonical is making a lot of gutsy changes to the os, that's for sure. but stuff still Just Works, at least for mea |
| 00:31.18 | eightyeight | s/a$// |
| 00:31.28 | eightyeight | yeah, but how far has that gotten us? heh |
| 00:32.09 | sontek | I think pretty far... I really haven't had a problem with my desktop in a few years until I put gnome shell and unity on it |
| 00:32.11 | eightyeight | if we want to go mainstream with the rest of the world, it's high time that innovation took over |
| 00:32.13 | sontek | then I found lots of issues |
| 00:32.18 | sontek | felt like I was in '05 again |
| 00:33.05 | eightyeight | sure. stuff works, things looks good, and we have a good set of software, but we're still a hacker operating system, and until oems pick us up, we always will be |
| 00:33.21 | eightyeight | which i'm fine with, personally, but canonical isn't |
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| 00:34.28 | sjansen | sheds a tear for MeeGo |
| 00:34.49 | sontek | I don't think people are deciding not to use Linux because its UI isn't pretty or unusable, I don't think people know about it |
| 00:34.57 | eightyeight | exactly |
| 00:35.09 | sontek | I think the only reason Linux isn't mainstream on the desktop is because its not shipped in stores |
| 00:35.14 | sontek | Get dell to pickup Linux again |
| 00:35.20 | eightyeight | and peoplp don't know about it, because oems aren't picking it up, and oems aren't picking it up, because they don't think it will sell |
| 00:35.39 | sontek | It wont sell at first, Canonical needs to fund the marketing for it |
| 00:35.39 | eightyeight | s/peoplp/people/ |
| 00:35.44 | eightyeight | not sure how that happened |
| 00:35.58 | sontek | instead of putting effort into re-creating everything and wasting time/money, put that towards where there is an actual problem |
| 00:36.21 | eightyeight | i'm just saying, canonical is making thes innovations, to get the oem dollar, not to woo grandma and grandpa |
| 00:36.42 | eightyeight | gives up on typing for the night |
| 00:36.45 | sontek | Yeah, I just don't think the interface is the reason OEMs aren't picking it up |
| 00:37.05 | sontek | I think its just because they don't think there are enough users |
| 00:37.23 | sontek | so canonical needs to pay the OEMs to ship with it, get the users |
| 00:37.29 | eightyeight | yeah. like i said, time will tell. unity could be the death of ubuntu, or the beginning of profit for canonical |
| 00:37.45 | eightyeight | it will be interesting to see how it plays out |
| 00:37.59 | eightyeight | ubuntu is becoming the odd-man-out, though |
| 00:38.12 | sontek | Yeah, and they are starting to piss people off more than usual |
| 00:38.39 | sontek | They are going to lose the little bit of help upstream gives them :p |
| 00:38.47 | eightyeight | but then you have fedora moving entirely to systemd, and implementing /run, which pisses off all the old farts |
| 00:39.12 | sontek | Most distros are picking up /run though |
| 00:39.19 | eightyeight | likes /run |
| 00:39.20 | sontek | and it makes perfect sense |
| 00:39.27 | eightyeight | yup |
| 00:39.45 | sontek | I haven't played with systemd, so I'm not sure if it actually provides many benefits over upstart |
| 00:39.48 | eightyeight | people get political, nay, _religious_ about that stuff though |
| 00:40.15 | eightyeight | "implementing something without consultingt the community" |
| 00:40.23 | eightyeight | "what are they thinking?!" |
| 00:41.25 | sontek | Lennart likes making big changes and breaking our world for a year or so, but then it makes our lives so much better |
| 00:41.27 | eightyeight | and this is what i'm talking about with "distro" versus "operating system" |
| 00:41.54 | eightyeight | arch ships bsd init. debian sysv. ubuntu upstart. fedora systemd. |
| 00:42.11 | sontek | Yeah, thats a huge problem with linux adoption |
| 00:42.41 | eightyeight | there is massive fundamental differences between different gnu/linux operating system vendors these days |
| 00:42.44 | sontek | You can only support one distro, not the OS, since its so different between distro |
| 00:43.02 | eightyeight | so, to me, the term "distro" just doesn't fit anymore |
| 00:43.20 | sontek | Yeah, It pissed me off when I installed fedora and it had upstart because I had avoided Ubuntu since it switched |
| 00:43.24 | sontek | loved his SysV :P |
| 00:43.40 | eightyeight | that worked back in the mid-90s, when they were all the same, minus a package manager, and your wm |
| 00:43.56 | sontek | I think Ubuntu going all crazy uncle on us might bring the rest of the distros though |
| 00:44.26 | sontek | Nothing brings families together more than hating on someone/something :P |
| 00:44.32 | eightyeight | you know, it is ironic that canocical chooses the name 'unity', whene they're the onely operating system shipping it. ã |
| 00:44.37 | eightyeight | heh |
| 00:44.47 | eightyeight | further, speaking of irony: |
| 00:45.14 | eightyeight | https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/performance/ |
| 00:45.21 | eightyeight | check out #8. ã |
| 00:45.41 | sontek | haha |
| 00:46.15 | sontek | Firefox4 is a lot faster though |
| 00:46.30 | sontek | although they basically cloned chrome, so I have no reason to switch back to it |
| 00:46.31 | eightyeight | ⥠firefox |
| 00:46.46 | eightyeight | they're still the only browser that gets proxies right |
| 00:46.46 | sontek | iceweasel for the debian users ;) |
| 00:47.07 | eightyeight | and there just is no about:config replacement in chrom |
| 00:47.08 | eightyeight | e |
| 00:47.09 | sontek | yeah, firefox is my dedicated ssh tunnel proxy browser :P |
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| 01:11.04 | cedwards | tunneling is the only time i ever use firefox anymore. |
| 01:11.42 | eightyeight | it's my default browser |
| 01:13.33 | eightyeight | http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/files/www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/nodes/3291/strip.jpg |
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| 15:23.47 | sjansen | http://lwn.net/Articles/437014/ <-- Articles like this are why I pay for LWN. |
| 15:24.24 | goozbach | does it mention coraid? |
| 15:26.55 | sjansen | It discusses technologies, not companies. |
| 15:27.15 | goozbach | does it mention AoE? |
| 15:27.28 | goozbach | if it doesn't tis not complete |
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| 16:53.55 | sjansen | Looks like the new gnome.org went live. |
| 16:54.29 | sjansen | I really like the simplified Planet GNOME. |
| 16:56.39 | cedwards | sjansen: it did? i didn't cut over dns yet. |
| 16:56.46 | cedwards | sjansen: someone must have done it without me |
| 16:57.56 | cedwards | planet is updated. new www site isn't live yet though. |
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| 17:11.03 | sjansen | http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/04/06/1414223/The-Vatican-Lauds-Hackers |
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| 17:45.56 | elg | sjansen: best place to learn about making simple rpms? |
| 17:47.31 | goozbach | elg: a guru labs course |
| 17:47.33 | goozbach | :) |
| 17:47.39 | goozbach | gurulabs.com |
| 17:47.52 | elg | today. ;-) |
| 17:48.04 | goozbach | (not being facetious, look in the goodies section, there's a sample of courseware on the very subject) |
| 17:48.31 | goozbach | not sure if it's needing an update, but it's my cannonical resource |
| 17:48.55 | elg | awesome |
| 17:49.17 | elg | heh. don't you need to build debs for canonincal? ;-) |
| 17:50.03 | fugue88 | badda ching |
| 17:50.56 | goozbach | ~groan |
| 17:50.59 | goozbach | ~groan elg |
| 17:51.47 | fugue88 | ~whalegroan elg |
| 17:53.58 | jsmith | elg: There's the (draft) RPM guide in the Fedora documentation |
| 17:54.27 | jsmith | elg: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora_Draft_Documentation/0.1/html/RPM_Guide/index.html |
| 17:54.45 | jsmith | elg: But for a quick-and-dirty guide, the Guru Labs guide is pretty darn good |
| 17:55.03 | jsmith | goozbach: Any idea if Guru Labs still has that PDF available? |
| 18:02.55 | goozbach | should be around somewhere |
| 18:04.27 | nage | www.gurulabs.com/media/files/courseware-samples/GURULABS-RPM-GUIDE-v1.0.PDF |
| 18:04.45 | goozbach | http://www.gurulabs.com/partner-program/sample-courseware/ |
| 18:09.54 | sjansen | elg: The GL RPM guide hasn't been updated for a long time. |
| 18:10.38 | sjansen | If I were going to update it, there's two things I would consider vital to cover. |
| 18:11.04 | sjansen | One is the openSUSE Build Server. Don't let the name fool you, it's a cross-platform service. |
| 18:11.53 | sjansen | The other is rpmdevtools for Fedora/RHEL. |
| 18:12.34 | sjansen | If you want the fastest path to a good RPM building experience, rpmdevtools is your friend. |
| 18:14.45 | sjansen | sudo yum install rpmdevtools ; rpmdev-setuptree ; rpmdev-newspec atomicpants ; *hack* *hack* *hack* ; rpmbuild ... ; rpmdev-wipetree |
| 18:15.07 | elg | rpmdevtools makes a heavily-commented spec file? |
| 18:15.39 | sjansen | Heavily? No. But it at least includes some suggestions. |
| 18:22.05 | sjansen | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_an_RPM_package <-- Not bad. |
| 18:22.26 | sjansen | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:Guidelines <-- A lot of good advice, but really long. |
| 18:29.16 | jsmith | And... with uncanny timing... https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-April/150280.html |
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| 19:37.19 | olli | elg: http://en.opensuse.org/Packaging might be worth a look |
| 19:38.22 | olli | wonders how the "Fedora SPEC Review Tool" differs from rpmlint |
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| 19:44.04 | sjansen | fozzmoo: Uhm... for those of us who rarely leave Davis County anymore, why the milk? |
| 19:44.22 | fozzmoo | Oh, just my immediate reaction to the suggestion that anyone shop at EBC - whether it's still in business or not. |
| 19:46.19 | sjansen | Too bad. I was hoping for something like an alien abduction, federal raid, or Super Dell's "triumphant" return. |
| 19:46.49 | fozzmoo | heh |
| 19:47.19 | JoshH | superdell will return someday |
| 19:47.22 | JoshH | it's inevitable |
| 19:47.43 | JoshH | he could probably win the new congress seat |
| 19:47.56 | fozzmoo | shudders |
| 19:48.36 | fozzmoo | wonders who thinks SD is the messiah besides... SD. |
| 19:48.38 | JoshH | he can't be much worse than wimmer right? |
| 19:48.59 | fozzmoo | Well, I love Carl Wimmer. He's my rep and one of my neighbors. |
| 19:49.15 | fozzmoo | Carl doesn't talk about himself in the third person like he's God's gift to humanity. |
| 19:50.03 | JoshH | he pretends to be a small government guy |
| 19:50.29 | fozzmoo | I'd say he's pretty solidly small government. |
| 19:50.37 | fozzmoo | The only exception is on moral issues like abortion. |
| 19:50.41 | JoshH | when it comes to healthcare, sure |
| 19:50.59 | JoshH | moral issues are where most small government people start to become huge government |
| 19:52.19 | JoshH | i didn't think the state gun thing was a big deal like a lot of people, but it was a waste of time for the legislature |
| 19:52.37 | fozzmoo | I can see that. |
| 19:52.45 | JoshH | he seems like the kind of guy who is perfectly willing to waste time on stuff like that to show people how gun friendly he is than doing anything important |
| 19:53.21 | fozzmoo | Well, Carl and Curt Oda, and some others, are very intent on making Utah more 2nd-Amendment than it already is. |
| 19:53.37 | fozzmoo | I agree that it may not be that critical compared to other issues. |
| 19:53.50 | JoshH | the way i see it though, anyone who calls their group the patrick henry caucus shouldn't want the government involved in moral issues |
| 19:53.56 | JoshH | i like curt oda |
| 19:54.11 | fozzmoo | Yeah- Curt's a good guy. |
| 19:54.17 | JoshH | he wants to allow beer higher than 3.2 to be on tap, and he's always replied to my emails |
| 19:54.29 | JoshH | i couldn't care less about feral cats being blasted |
| 19:54.32 | fozzmoo | I think the feral cat issue is, again, looking for problems where they don't exist. |
| 19:54.49 | fozzmoo | But its been good for Curt. A lot of people know who he is now. :) |
| 19:55.03 | JoshH | i'd like to blast my neighbors cat that always comes into my backyard looking or a place to pee |
| 19:55.15 | JoshH | but, i can't bring myself to do it |
| 19:56.00 | JoshH | it's hard for me to understand how someone can love their pet cat, then let it go roam outside all the time, where it could get tortured by some sicko kid, hit by a car, or whatever |
| 19:56.45 | fozzmoo | I'm different on that because I grew up in more of a rural environment. |
| 19:56.58 | fozzmoo | We had cats- but not cats that you'd keep inside with a litterbox. |
| 19:57.09 | fozzmoo | So, they were pretty much free-roaming. |
| 19:57.11 | JoshH | ya, farm cats are different |
| 19:57.15 | fozzmoo | But, we had acreage. |
| 19:57.17 | JoshH | but regular domestic house pet cats |
| 19:57.21 | JoshH | should not be let out, imo |
| 19:57.37 | JoshH | not only is it dangerous for the cat, but it's very rude and inconsiderate to neighbors who don't like cat piss |
| 20:02.56 | sjansen | Hooray! GNOME 3! Hooray! |
| 20:04.50 | eightyeight | \o/ |
| 20:06.04 | eightyeight | JoshH: simple solution: bb gun. give it just enough pressure to sting, without penetrating |
| 20:06.09 | sjansen | cedwards: Did you break www.gnome.org? |
| 20:06.37 | cedwards | sjansen: I did not intentionally break www.gnome.org, no. |
| 20:06.39 | JoshH | i only like pellet guns |
| 20:06.44 | JoshH | sheridan blue streaks |
| 20:06.52 | JoshH | had them when i was a kid and can never use anything else |
| 20:07.03 | JoshH | but they would kill a cat for sure |
| 20:07.10 | JoshH | a paintball gun would be better |
| 20:07.11 | cedwards | sjansen: we just released and we're having both DNS and load issues. |
| 20:07.25 | JoshH | way to go noobs |
| 20:07.27 | sjansen | cedwards: I blame you! |
| 20:07.39 | eightyeight | heh. paintball gun would work as well |
| 20:07.39 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:07.45 | cedwards | damn. that's harsh. |
| 20:07.54 | JoshH | switches to kde |
| 20:08.00 | eightyeight | problem is identifying the orange paint on the cat's butt with the orange paint on your grass |
| 20:08.11 | sjansen | switches to Windows 7 |
| 20:11.48 | eightyeight | stays on openbox |
| 20:33.05 | sjansen | Wow, the GNOME 3 launch is such a big deal it took down redhat.com too. |
| 20:34.13 | cedwards | things should be getting better now.. we've done some tuning. |
| 20:34.16 | jsmith | sjansen: I seriously doubt that was the cause... |
| 20:34.18 | cedwards | slow, but better. |
| 20:34.32 | eightyeight | i'm struggling getting on rhn |
| 20:34.39 | eightyeight | a bit frustrating |
| 20:35.26 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | minecraft multiplayer: plug.org | It's GNOME 3 and cedwards helped. |
| 20:36.14 | sjansen | According to the footer, gnome.org is hosted by canonical.com |
| 20:37.04 | sjansen | ponders how Canonical managed to leverage the GNOME 3 launch to DoS Red Hat |
| 20:37.30 | jsmith | eightyeight: Yeah, it and redhat.com are tied to some of the same infrastructure, apparently :-( |
| 20:37.32 | sjansen | cedwards: You're sneaky. I'll give you that. |
| 20:37.40 | jsmith | eightyeight: Unfortunately, I don't know much more than that |
| 20:37.52 | eightyeight | ~blame jsmith |
| 20:37.52 | ibot | ACTION blames jsmith (and Canada) for all the evil in the world |
| 20:39.38 | sjansen | http://www.gnome.org/applications/ <-- Rock on! GNOME 3 includes a calculator! |
| 20:40.06 | eightyeight | wow. moving up in the world, i see |
| 20:40.06 | jsmith | sjansen: Seriously? I haven't seen a calculator like that since Windows 2.0! |
| 20:40.40 | cedwards | sjansen: we had some valid, and some devious reasons to host at Canonical. |
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| 20:42.58 | sjansen | cedwards: I assume the IP hard coded in the links is intended and temporary? |
| 20:43.31 | cedwards | sjansen: that is a caching issue. I just cleared the server cache. try the same for your browser and it should go away. |
| 20:43.58 | jsmith | eightyeight: The company line is to "direct customer inquiries to the appropriate GSS TAM/SRM or by filling out an Internal Customer Escalation at: http://apps.gss.redhat.com/gss-ice/." |
| 20:44.38 | eightyeight | jsmith: meh. thx for the follow-up, but it's really not that big of a deal. just means putting off some installs for a bit |
| 20:44.39 | sjansen | http://www.gnome.org/about/ <-- Pretty sure the link to wptest.gnome.org isn't intentional. |
| 20:44.45 | eightyeight | not early that high priority |
| 20:47.43 | cedwards | sjansen: good catch |
| 20:49.17 | sjansen | http://www.gnome.org/getting-gnome/ <-- I find it humorous that (because of Unity?), Canonical is hosting GNOME 3 but doesn't have a live image. |
| 20:53.39 | sjansen | So www. is hosted by Canonical, but library. is hosted by Red Hat? That's kinda weird. |
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| 20:57.00 | fugue88 | That's awesome, that's what it is! |
| 21:05.18 | Migs | Two bloodthirsty rivals, putting aside their differences and uniting for the common good |
| 21:05.42 | eightyeight | blood thirsty? |
| 21:08.21 | fugue88 | blood-thirsty |
| 21:08.43 | smcquay | snorts |
| 21:08.48 | eightyeight | i must have missed the carnage |
| 21:08.50 | sjansen | pictures Shuttleworth in a long black cape and plastic fangs |
| 21:16.37 | goozbach | plastic? |
| 21:16.48 | goozbach | he can afford the good porcelan enamel ones |
| 21:18.54 | sjansen | Clearly he must've chosen plastic for the ironic impression. |
| 21:20.09 | goozbach | maybe it's fancy plastic? |
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