| 00:03.33 | *** join/#utah jsmith-away (~jsmith@fedora/jsmith) |
| 00:17.01 | *** join/#utah mheath (~mheath@unaffiliated/mheath) |
| 00:18.59 | *** join/#utah jsmith-away (~jsmith@234.81.233.72.static.reverse.ltdomains.com) |
| 00:19.02 | *** join/#utah jsmith-away (~jsmith@fedora/jsmith) |
| 00:39.03 | *** join/#utah RyanE (Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 01:00.34 | *** join/#utah carmony (~justin@c-24-10-194-172.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:58.11 | *** join/#utah jsmith-away (~jsmith@fedora/jsmith) |
| 02:18.40 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (~jphall@techhat.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 02:31.27 | *** join/#utah mabes (~mabes@runner.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 02:35.50 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@63.225.228.210) |
| 02:45.24 | levi | So, who here does Docbook? |
| 02:46.17 | *** join/#utah levi (~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:58.42 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@thelances.net) |
| 04:52.00 | *** join/#utah jalbretsen (~jalbretse@c-24-10-129-200.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:02.54 | *** join/#utah tristanrhodes_ (~tristanrh@137.190.80.252) |
| 05:09.15 | *** join/#utah har-od (~dshipp@c-71-195-218-161.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:24.15 | *** join/#utah themiddleman (~rob@c-67-186-244-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 05:37.35 | *** join/#utah Migs (~Migs@205.122.50.75) |
| 05:45.30 | *** join/#utah d3c4f (~d3c4f@64.245.158.66) |
| 06:25.46 | *** join/#utah zzzirk_away (~zzzirk@173-10-29-145-BusName-utah.ut.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 06:41.14 | *** join/#utah sshaw (~decriptor@53.250.sfcn.org) |
| 07:14.54 | *** join/#utah d3c4f_ (~d3c4f@64.245.158.66) |
| 07:19.25 | *** join/#utah beelzebob (~bob@burninate.org) |
| 07:42.49 | *** join/#utah mheath (~mheath@unaffiliated/mheath) |
| 08:35.37 | *** join/#utah natgeorg (~george@97.75.169.100) |
| 08:52.42 | *** join/#utah mheath (~mheath@174-23-212-35.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 08:52.42 | *** join/#utah mheath (~mheath@unaffiliated/mheath) |
| 08:52.58 | levi | Hi, mheath. |
| 09:10.56 | *** join/#utah mheath (~mheath@174-23-193-167.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 09:10.56 | *** join/#utah mheath (~mheath@unaffiliated/mheath) |
| 09:11.07 | *** join/#utah WoodsDog (~woodsdog@nat/redhat/x-eigjpokcvcsqhbrp) |
| 09:54.48 | *** join/#utah bios (~bios@shup.com) |
| 12:14.29 | *** join/#utah themiddleman (~rob@c-67-186-244-235.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 12:53.57 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce^@206.251.44.156) |
| 12:54.06 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 13:18.34 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@nat/redhat/x-lnbhlrpnycqmjuyf) |
| 13:18.34 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 13:29.07 | *** join/#utah bonez2046 (~bonez@173-14-239-229-Utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 13:48.01 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (~thaddeusq@216.49.181.128) |
| 13:57.02 | eightyeight | someone explain this to me. this should be something easy that i can answer, but alas, i cannot |
| 13:57.13 | eightyeight | http://pastebin.com/dFVtd9xL |
| 13:57.42 | eightyeight | grep '[^0-9]' file returns every line, while grep '[^0-9]+' file returns none |
| 13:57.43 | eightyeight | why? |
| 13:58.41 | eightyeight | if grep finds a single digit, it shouldn't return the line. so, the first grep should work, aiui |
| 13:59.45 | *** join/#utah manithree (~blr@c-71-199-9-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 14:02.11 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (~Adium@173-10-29-129-BusName-utah.ut.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 14:02.15 | fugue88 | eightyeight: I think the + only works that way in extended mode. Either do egrep, or escape it so it doesn't try a literal match. |
| 14:04.30 | *** join/#utah tensai (~tensai@joanna.zmonkey.org) |
| 14:12.33 | eightyeight | fugue88: you're right |
| 14:19.34 | *** join/#utah cbrown (~cbrown@fw.vpxp.com) |
| 14:37.59 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (~Adium@66.60.115.30) |
| 14:38.25 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (~Adium@66.60.115.30) |
| 14:39.52 | *** join/#utah mabes (~mabes@runner.fttp.xmission.com) |
| 14:40.37 | eightyeight | when in doubt, use --color |
| 14:46.06 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@70.89.246.241-Busname-UT.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 14:47.36 | *** join/#utah natgeorg (~george@97.75.169.100) |
| 14:49.14 | *** join/#utah sshaw (~decriptor@137.65.133.12) |
| 14:51.16 | *** join/#utah sshaw (~decriptor@137.65.133.12) |
| 14:53.09 | *** join/#utah redbeard2 (~jphall@BEYOND-OBLI.car1.SaltLakeCity1.Level3.net) |
| 14:53.58 | *** join/#utah manithree (~blr@c-71-199-9-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 14:59.13 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (~TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) |
| 14:59.13 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 15:03.16 | *** join/#utah fungus (~olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 15:04.14 | *** join/#utah jalbretsen (~jalbretse@166.70.168.122) |
| 15:08.16 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (~thaddeusq@216.49.181.128) |
| 15:08.24 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@ip65-44-231-178.z231-44-65.customer.algx.net) |
| 15:15.11 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | minecraft multiplayer: plug.org | Oh I'm a lumber jack and I'm okay... |
| 15:15.52 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@74-220-196-116.bluehost.com) |
| 15:16.56 | *** join/#utah har-od (~dshipp@fw.oremut02.us.wh.verio.net) |
| 15:19.41 | *** join/#utah bmidgley (~bmidgley@66.236.74.194.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:22.02 | *** join/#utah mabes (~mabes@66.236.74.194.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:28.09 | *** join/#utah fcodiaz (~fcodiaz@nat-out.fw01.slc.dechocorp.net) |
| 16:02.13 | *** join/#utah craigj (~craigj@neutroninteractive-xmission.xmission.com) |
| 16:08.54 | *** join/#utah SoftwareMaven (~user@63.248.210.27) |
| 16:14.25 | rsimpkin1 | Does anyone in here feel that Fox News is a reliable and credible source for news? |
| 16:14.40 | eightyeight | heh |
| 16:14.54 | eightyeight | you mean Faux News |
| 16:15.11 | *** part/#utah d3c4f_ (~d3c4f@64.245.158.66) |
| 16:15.34 | rsimpkin1 | I seriously don't get it. Someone here keeps turning our TVs to Fox News, like they are trying to evangalize the news to us. That some how Fox must have it right and EVERYONE ELSE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD has it wrong. |
| 16:15.38 | rsimpkin1 | If only we would listen... |
| 16:16.33 | JoshH | turn it to al jazeera |
| 16:18.51 | *** join/#utah clsai (~csimons@65.122.158.192) |
| 16:23.05 | eightyeight | is there a network in the U.S. that finally is carrying Al Jazeera? |
| 16:25.47 | JoshH | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera#Availability |
| 16:27.04 | eightyeight | so, the answer is still "no" |
| 16:29.12 | *** part/#utah manithree (~blr@c-71-199-9-89.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:41.58 | *** join/#utah Migs (~Migs@205.122.50.75) |
| 16:43.13 | sjansen | rsimpkin1: I'm disappointed in you. Surely a geek of your skill can pre-record Al Jazeera and rewire the TVs input. |
| 16:43.27 | sjansen | This is war, man! WAR! |
| 16:45.53 | rsimpkin1 | sjansen: I'd rather wire up the Daily Show. I mean, why not make 'em laugh. Of course, a few people find Fox News quite hilarious without any special help. Maybe that's why people like to watch... ? |
| 16:49.32 | eightyeight | rsimpkin1: where do you work? |
| 16:50.37 | rsimpkin1 | eightyeight: Adobe. |
| 16:50.55 | *** join/#utah rsimpkins (~rsimpkins@unaffiliated/rsimpkins) |
| 16:58.05 | *** join/#utah dharmatech (~hayduke@173-165-135-245-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 17:07.14 | Gate | rsimpkins: they are as fair and balanced as CNN. And yes, I mean that as an insult to them both. |
| 17:08.43 | fugue88 | :D |
| 17:09.09 | Gate | TV news is nothing but highly commercialized tabloids. |
| 17:09.22 | Gate | They have an audience and they pander to it. |
| 17:09.31 | JoshH | cnn is commercial and tabloid style for sure, but it's not as politically biased as fox |
| 17:09.44 | Gate | The text versions aren't as bad. I read the articles put out by cnn and fox in equal measure |
| 17:09.59 | Gate | JoshH: from what I have seen, yeah, it is. |
| 17:10.05 | JoshH | like what? |
| 17:10.15 | Gate | but the last time I watched CNN it was that hate-mongering witch Nancy Grace. |
| 17:10.30 | JoshH | nancy grace just talks about moms who kill their kids and stuff |
| 17:10.36 | Gate | I have never watched a single CNN segment since. |
| 17:10.44 | JoshH | at least thats' all i've ever seen her talk about |
| 17:11.11 | Gate | She's the type who says why bother with a trial when we all know they are guilty |
| 17:11.54 | *** join/#utah Migs (~Migs@205.122.50.75) |
| 17:12.03 | JoshH | well when it's a kid being killed, most people say that |
| 17:12.10 | JoshH | and that's what most people want to watch |
| 17:12.17 | JoshH | but what does that have to do with politics? |
| 17:12.22 | Gate | But its not journalism. |
| 17:13.00 | JoshH | but when watching nancy grace, you wouldn't think wow, this station is uber liberal |
| 17:14.33 | Gate | No, I will listen to uber-liberals. They usually have some sort of basis or agenda. Her I won't listen to. |
| 17:14.44 | JoshH | what i'm saying is she's not political at all |
| 17:14.51 | JoshH | she talks about trial issues and so forth |
| 17:14.55 | JoshH | from what i've seen |
| 17:14.56 | Gate | Its a seperate point |
| 17:15.04 | JoshH | so if you aren't itnerested in whatever crime she's blabbing about, you don't watch |
| 17:15.07 | JoshH | i never do |
| 17:15.44 | Gate | And to be honest, CNN's article service impressed me just a few weeks ago by presenting a front-page libertarian article on gun control from the CATO institute |
| 17:17.40 | JoshH | but it's true that none of the major media sources do any real hard hitting investigative journalism anymore |
| 17:17.48 | JoshH | it's all basic info on major issues and current events |
| 17:18.07 | JoshH | and entertainment |
| 17:18.47 | JoshH | most of the best journalism is from all the random sites and magazines that get called liberal by fox |
| 17:20.41 | eightyeight | i enjoy anderson cooper on cnn |
| 17:21.02 | Gate | I find that a mix of BBC, CNN and FOX tend to get decent info on all major events. |
| 17:21.14 | Gate | (their websites of course, not their TV) |
| 17:21.55 | Gate | Reason, Slashdot and Ars Technica tend to fill in the lesser news on my specific interests |
| 17:22.26 | eightyeight | reason isn't bad, although they're a bit long-winded |
| 17:22.29 | eightyeight | ars is hit and miss for me |
| 17:23.53 | Gate | Reason can be long winded, I agree |
| 17:24.19 | Gate | asjustment: there is *one* talking head I can stand |
| 17:24.33 | Gate | s/asjustment/adjustment/ |
| 17:24.42 | Gate | freedomwatch |
| 17:25.02 | Gate | I appear to be their intended audience there |
| 17:26.17 | sjansen | Nancy Grace should be shipped off to Guantanamo for crimes against humanity. |
| 17:28.19 | Gate | She is the only newscaster I have ever seen who I thought was actually *trying* to incite hatred. |
| 17:30.16 | Gate | sjansen: Gitmo for loudmouths? That slippery slope is a little dangerous for you, isn't it ;) |
| 17:30.44 | Gate | s/for you/for us both/ |
| 17:49.09 | sjansen | Nancy Grace is much worse than a loudmouth. |
| 17:50.00 | sjansen | And you can't deny there's a certain symmetry to sending her to Gitmo without a trial. |
| 17:55.12 | sjansen | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/15/apple_ios_throttles_web_apps_on_home_screen/ *sigh* |
| 17:55.34 | sjansen | I really want a tablet. I was almost ready to break down and but an iPad since everything else sucks. |
| 17:56.10 | sjansen | Curse your ESR! |
| 17:56.19 | sjansen | And MovableType! |
| 17:57.43 | sjansen | And that crappy SSO I managed at BYU! |
| 17:57.59 | sjansen | And everyone else who taught me how badly proprietary software sucks! |
| 17:58.17 | sjansen | crawls into a corner to sulk |
| 18:02.31 | Gate | the motorola isn't too bad |
| 18:03.08 | *** join/#utah eggyknap (~jtolley@unaffiliated/eggyknap) |
| 18:03.14 | Gate | since most of its flaws are things iPad refuses to fix in iteslf and the xoom will fix within weeks |
| 18:03.26 | Gate | android rocketh |
| 18:22.23 | *** join/#utah fadein (~Erik@c-71-199-16-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:25.42 | *** join/#utah ldav15 (~Adium@166.70.157.161) |
| 18:28.51 | *** join/#utah dkelson (~dkelson@ip65-44-231-178.z231-44-65.customer.algx.net) |
| 18:29.29 | *** part/#utah dkelson (~dkelson@ip65-44-231-178.z231-44-65.customer.algx.net) |
| 18:30.30 | sjansen | I'll believe the Xoom's flaws will be fixed after they've been fixed. |
| 18:31.03 | sjansen | Most Android devices have a very poor history of ever receiving updates. |
| 18:31.25 | Gate | my eris got updates, unfortunately they weren't that beneficial |
| 18:31.56 | Gate | and if they *dont* update the xoom Motorola is going to face a lot of *very* angry early adopters |
| 18:32.05 | Gate | namely: no flash |
| 18:57.09 | levi | sjansen: So, I recall a presentation you did about ConTeXt for PLUG that was part of a larger document management system. |
| 18:57.32 | levi | sjansen: Were you using XML and docbook too? |
| 18:57.33 | sjansen | correct |
| 18:57.53 | sjansen | Custom XML inspired by Docbook and HTML. |
| 18:57.56 | *** join/#utah carmony (~justin@174-23-215-144.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 18:58.32 | levi | Any reason you did custom XML instead of Docbook? |
| 18:59.00 | *** join/#utah carmony (~justin@174-23-215-144.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 18:59.57 | Jayce^ | masochism |
| 19:00.30 | levi | My exploration of Docbook has been masochistic enough. |
| 19:01.38 | levi | I've also been looking for tools to generate diagrams via declarative text languages. |
| 19:39.20 | *** join/#utah pelaofeliz (~pelaofeli@67.137.236.66) |
| 19:43.32 | sjansen | Because DocBook didn't capture the semantics we wanted. And full on DocBook is hideous. |
| 19:43.37 | *** join/#utah fadein (~Erik@c-71-199-16-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:44.01 | sjansen | Sorry, not recommendations for diagramming. |
| 19:44.32 | fugue88 | Docbook didn't capture the semantics? Are you kidding? Docbook captures just about every semantics conceivable! :) |
| 19:45.12 | fugue88 | Docbook is more flexible than English. |
| 19:45.29 | fugue88 | Docbook could beat up Chuck Norris. |
| 19:52.49 | *** join/#utah pelaofeliz (~pelaofeli@67.137.236.66) |
| 20:23.51 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (~thaddeusq@216.49.181.128) |
| 20:25.08 | goozbach | fugue88: beat up? no |
| 20:25.21 | goozbach | confuse and disorient? perhaps |
| 20:28.23 | fugue88 | heh |
| 20:31.28 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (~TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) |
| 20:31.28 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 20:59.35 | shalkie | Considering the opponent that is still impressive. |
| 21:08.48 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (~TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) |
| 21:08.48 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 21:16.55 | goozbach | I've been having issues with python editing in Vim, so I google for an idea... |
| 21:17.08 | goozbach | I end up with the top link being sontek's blog |
| 21:18.01 | goozbach | http://www.sontek.net/python-with-a-modular-ide-vim |
| 21:27.14 | goozbach | however I'm still seeing problems with autoindent |
| 21:27.23 | goozbach | it's putting 8 spaces instead of four |
| 21:28.52 | goozbach | hmm |
| 21:28.57 | goozbach | it's resetting shiftwidth |
| 21:29.24 | goozbach | I can't seem to override it with a '# vim:' line either... :( |
| 21:29.24 | *** join/#utah KevinRandolph (~krandolph@fw.oremut02.us.wh.verio.net) |
| 21:35.52 | sontek | goozbach: I really need to update that post or write a new one |
| 21:36.01 | sontek | everyone still goes to it but its kind of outdated |
| 21:36.57 | sontek | goozbach: did you set shiftwidth, tabstop, and softtabstop? |
| 21:37.52 | sontek | shiftwidth is what is used during autoindenting |
| 21:39.14 | goozbach | sontek: yes |
| 21:39.28 | goozbach | I've set it in the vim: line inside the file itself |
| 21:39.36 | goozbach | which should override everthing else, no? |
| 21:39.46 | sontek | goozbach: it should |
| 21:39.59 | sontek | so you set it in vimrc and then when you type :set shiftwidth? it shows something else? |
| 21:40.08 | goozbach | # vim: filetype=python tabstop=4 shiftwidth=4 smarttab expandtab softtabstop=4 autoindent |
| 21:40.11 | goozbach | is in the file |
| 21:40.11 | sontek | are you closing/re-opening vim afterwards or sourcing your irc? |
| 21:40.16 | goozbach | yup |
| 21:40.28 | goozbach | set shiftwidth shows 8 |
| 21:41.45 | sontek | do you have modeline yet? |
| 21:42.00 | sontek | if you are trying to include settings in your python file you need to set modeline |
| 21:42.18 | sontek | :set modeline then try? |
| 21:42.32 | goozbach | set modeline is in my vimrc |
| 21:42.39 | sontek | hmm |
| 21:42.55 | sontek | That should work :P |
| 21:43.47 | goozbach | hmm |
| 21:43.48 | sontek | And you don't have any other tab settings that could be overriding that? |
| 21:44.03 | goozbach | I got it to work |
| 21:44.11 | sontek | what did you have to do? |
| 21:44.19 | goozbach | but I had to create a ~/.vim/python.vim file |
| 21:44.47 | goozbach | and sourced it from my vimrc via ':au Filetype python source ~/.vim/python.vim' |
| 21:44.52 | goozbach | hmm |
| 21:45.23 | goozbach | the biggest problem I have is that I'm using the extension .t for some of my python scripts. |
| 21:45.30 | goozbach | which vim interprets as perl |
| 21:45.34 | sontek | yeah, well thats your issue :P |
| 21:45.53 | sontek | you could just set ft=python instead of doing that :au stuff |
| 21:46.30 | goozbach | how does it know to source my python.vim file? |
| 21:47.12 | sontek | If its a python file |
| 21:47.54 | sontek | It just does fileextension check, it doesn't do any actual analyzing of the source |
| 21:49.04 | sontek | you could do something like: au BufNewFile, BufRead *.t set ft=python |
| 21:49.11 | sontek | in your vimrc |
| 21:49.20 | sontek | and it'll detect .t files as python |
| 21:49.31 | sontek | but why do you have .t files as python? :P |
| 21:49.52 | sjansen | That that his TAP driver will load them. |
| 21:50.04 | sjansen | s/load/run/ |
| 21:50.22 | goozbach | sontek: ahh |
| 21:50.36 | goozbach | I don't want all .t files automatically set to python |
| 21:50.40 | goozbach | just the python ones :) |
| 21:50.48 | sontek | haha |
| 21:50.51 | goozbach | and yes, it's so pytap will run them :) |
| 21:51.09 | sontek | yeah, i'd just bind a key to :set ft=python |
| 21:51.11 | goozbach | https://github.com/goozbach/pytap |
| 21:52.17 | sjansen | http://docs.python.org/library/unittest.html |
| 21:52.55 | goozbach | sjansen: yes, but does unittest output TAP? |
| 21:53.02 | goozbach | or create TAP archives? |
| 21:53.07 | goozbach | don't think so |
| 21:53.21 | sontek | http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/articles/unittest2.shtml |
| 21:53.24 | sjansen | It does if you extend it. ;-) |
| 21:53.24 | sontek | is better! |
| 21:53.58 | sontek | You could use Mock for TAP internal stuff and just test that your logic is working |
| 21:55.10 | goozbach | I'm trying to spread the gospel of TAP |
| 21:55.23 | goozbach | and getting unittest to spit out TAP would be lovely |
| 21:55.30 | goozbach | however my python foo is pretty weak |
| 21:57.26 | goozbach | what part of unittest should I be using to modify the output |
| 21:57.28 | goozbach | ? |
| 22:02.13 | goozbach | looks like TestLoader |
| 22:03.37 | levi | sjansen: Docbook does seem to have a lot of specific tags for things I don't care at all about, and no specific tags for a lot of things I care very much about. And dealing with the XSLTs for a much smaller schema would be way easier, I would imagine. |
| 22:05.12 | sjansen | Not dealing with XSLT is even easier. |
| 22:05.21 | sjansen | The only reason to bother with XSLT is XSL-FO. |
| 22:05.33 | sjansen | XSL-FO is univerally ugly. |
| 22:05.52 | sjansen | XSLT is causes brain damage without exception. |
| 22:05.53 | levi | Yeah, that's the impression I got of it, too. |
| 22:06.11 | levi | So what did you use to turn your XML into ConTeXt? |
| 22:06.22 | sjansen | Originally Ruby, now Python. |
| 22:06.53 | levi | Not that I really care, but why did you do that particular switch? |
| 22:07.04 | sjansen | (1) REXML is crap. |
| 22:07.21 | sjansen | (2) We had a bunch of guys who knew Python. I was the only one who know Ruby. |
| 22:08.02 | levi | Sounds reasonable. :) |
| 22:08.30 | sjansen | I created my own libxml wrapper, inspired by lxml but more tailored for documents instead of data. |
| 22:08.46 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (~TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) |
| 22:08.46 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |
| 22:08.47 | levi | Did you do a dtd or schema for your XML format? |
| 22:08.52 | sjansen | Then used that to create a pleasant little tranform library on top of it. |
| 22:09.27 | sjansen | I created a relax-ng compact schema. We've since abandoned it. |
| 22:09.49 | sjansen | I tried to enforce too much in the schema. |
| 22:10.42 | sjansen | There's only two values to a schema: |
| 22:10.56 | sjansen | (1) Interoperability. We don't care about interoperability. |
| 22:10.56 | levi | I like the way nXml mode in emacs validates via schema as you type and a can suggest ways to fix errors and supply tab-completion of tag names valid in the current context. |
| 22:11.13 | sjansen | (2) Integrating with an IDE. We all prefer Vim. |
| 22:11.17 | levi | s/and a can/and can/ |
| 22:12.28 | levi | emacs + nxml + yasnippet makes for a less-nasty XML editing experience than I have had before. |
| 22:12.50 | levi | Of course, one must first tolerate emacs. :) |
| 22:12.51 | sjansen | Good to know. |
| 22:14.08 | sjansen | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:14.25 | levi | Emacs has structural movement keys that are redefined in different language modes based on their particular structures. Since XML tags map pretty closely to sexprs, the structural movement keys work very well. |
| 22:14.48 | levi | And snippets are nice to insert a huge mass of boilerplate XML with a few keystrokes. |
| 22:16.09 | levi | sjansen: Would be nice to look at. I have very limited amounts of time to spend of document infrastructure stuff, so at the moment Docbook + dblatex and manually-drawn diagrams is about as far as I can go in this direction. |
| 22:17.10 | levi | I started a little Asymptote library for drawing packet bit diagrams automatically, though, and I might be able to use PlantUML for UML-style sketches. |
| 22:17.25 | sjansen | Yeah, creating your own document infrastructure is a long and painful path. |
| 22:18.19 | levi | I saw our German development teams tend to use it, and have some fairly large documents in Docbook format, so I investigated a bit. |
| 22:33.01 | levi | Anyway, if you're interested in diagram/figure languages, Asymptote and Metapost are definitely the best general-purpose tools if you want high quality output. Metapost is clunkier, being based on the TeX language, but it's got a lot of libraries. Asymptote has a much nicer language and 3d support if you need 3d graphs. |
| 22:34.39 | levi | If you just need UML diagrams of reasonable quality, PlantUML seems to be the most complete solution for text-based declarative UML diagrams. There are bits and pieces elsewhere that are nice, but PlantUML is the only place where they all seem to come together nicely. |
| 22:40.28 | levi | Metapost has MetaUML, which does a pretty good job and has some nice extensions to the Metapost language for object layout, but it doesn't do sequence diagrams. Plus it's somehow broken in my installation. I'd prefer Metapost/Asymptote-style layout to PlanUML, which just uses graphviz so you can't manually control the layout of complicated graphs. |
| 23:00.28 | *** join/#utah dharmatech (~hayduke@166-70-57-177.ip.xmission.com) |
| 23:06.38 | levi | Aaagh, stupid Thinkpad decided to hang while going to sleep again. :/ |
| 23:49.46 | *** join/#utah TimRiker (~TimRiker@bzflag/projectlead/TimRiker) |
| 23:49.46 | *** mode/#utah [+o TimRiker] by ChanServ |