| 01:50.08 | *** join/#utah themiddleman (~rob@c-76-27-43-76.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:58.23 | *** join/#utah har-od (~dshipp@c-71-195-218-161.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:07.20 | *** part/#utah har-od (~dshipp@c-71-195-218-161.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:21.45 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@63.225.228.210) |
| 03:01.18 | *** join/#utah shalkie (~weechat@166-70-208-58.ip.xmission.com) |
| 03:05.37 | *** join/#utah KevinRandolph (~krandolph@fw.oremut02.us.wh.verio.net) |
| 03:24.21 | *** join/#utah fugue88 (~dsowen@173-165-137-65-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 03:27.10 | *** join/#utah fugue88 (~dsowen@173-165-137-65-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 04:03.00 | tristanbob_ | http://www.freeutopia.org/2011/01/13/provo-is-serious-about-a-plan-b/ |
| 04:13.10 | SnyderMahler | Just drove from Farmington to Sugarhouse. 'twas a bit scary. |
| 04:16.46 | sontek | Yeah, driving through farmington is pretty scary |
| 04:16.49 | sontek | its the new Detroit! |
| 04:17.31 | SnyderMahler | Haha |
| 04:36.00 | *** join/#utah dharmatech (~hayduke@166-70-57-177.ip.xmission.com) |
| 04:37.11 | *** join/#utah RyanE (Piadas@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 06:33.42 | *** join/#utah Jayce^ (~Jayce^@206.251.43.33) |
| 06:33.42 | *** mode/#utah [+o Jayce^] by ChanServ |
| 06:36.27 | *** join/#utah zzzirk_away (~zzzirk@173-10-29-145-BusName-utah.ut.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 10:07.37 | *** join/#utah shalkie (~weechat@166-70-208-58.ip.xmission.com) |
| 10:44.11 | *** join/#utah peno (~irc4me@peno.com) |
| 11:34.13 | *** join/#utah tristanrhodes (~tristanrh@2001:1948:212:0:180d:ca4d:514e:3dc8) |
| 13:51.09 | *** join/#utah emcnabb (~emcnabb@cpe-024-211-241-245.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 13:51.09 | *** mode/#utah [+v emcnabb] by ChanServ |
| 14:49.41 | *** join/#utah har-od (~dshipp@fw.oremut02.us.wh.verio.net) |
| 15:02.08 | *** join/#utah fugue88 (~dsowen@173-165-137-65-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 15:02.52 | *** join/#utah thaddeusq (~thaddeusq@216.49.181.128) |
| 15:15.07 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (~Adium@205.204.33.82) |
| 15:26.58 | *** join/#utah tiwula (~lane@70.89.246.241-Busname-UT.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 15:38.36 | *** join/#utah fugue88 (~dsowen@173-165-137-65-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 15:42.08 | *** join/#utah sshaw (~decriptor@137.65.133.27) |
| 16:06.21 | *** join/#utah sshaw (~decriptor@137.65.133.27) |
| 16:12.36 | *** join/#utah fungus (~olsonl@bromine.sosstaffing.com) |
| 16:14.57 | *** join/#utah mrpull (~Jake@216.58.143.230) |
| 16:19.12 | *** part/#utah har-od (~dshipp@fw.oremut02.us.wh.verio.net) |
| 16:22.10 | *** join/#utah dharmatech (~hayduke@166-70-57-177.ip.xmission.com) |
| 16:22.38 | *** join/#utah neybar (~jalance@74-220-196-116.bluehost.com) |
| 16:26.47 | *** join/#utah Jason_Wood (~Tadaka@c-76-27-54-140.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 16:37.23 | *** join/#utah fcodiaz (~fcodiaz@70.102.172.126) |
| 16:47.27 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@76.8.223.101) |
| 16:57.29 | *** join/#utah fadein (~Erik@c-71-199-16-47.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:02.00 | *** join/#utah dharmatech (~hayduke@173-165-135-245-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 17:17.42 | *** join/#utah larrys (~larrys@c-76-27-113-134.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:01.03 | unum | so what's a good scheme for storing a password in a config file(like say windows registry) |
| 18:01.49 | Gate | Encrypted as hell. |
| 18:02.13 | Gate | unum: I presume you need to pull it out as clear text? |
| 18:02.22 | unum | ya |
| 18:02.55 | Gate | unum: what language are you building this in? Something with good crypto support? |
| 18:03.57 | unum | c++ |
| 18:06.18 | sontek | unum: AES with a good key management strategy? |
| 18:07.03 | jsmith | unum: Do you have to use passwords? Any way to use client-side certs instead? |
| 18:09.15 | unum | this is to authenticate to postgres |
| 18:10.03 | unum | I'm not really sure what I can do |
| 18:11.15 | jsmith | unum: PostgreSQL (at least 9.0) supports SSL cert authentication :-) |
| 18:11.39 | unum | don't think I've quite made it to 9.0 yet..... |
| 18:12.01 | unum | but if they have the ssl cert.... |
| 18:12.10 | unum | of course I guess I'm over thinking this |
| 18:12.11 | *** join/#utah sjansen (~sjansen@ip65-44-231-178.z231-44-65.customer.algx.net) |
| 18:12.17 | unum | now I think about this |
| 18:12.23 | unum | I have a far more obvious problem |
| 18:12.35 | jsmith | 8.4 supports it as well |
| 18:13.39 | unum | so the certs will encrypt the password as I transmitt(which is something I need to do....) but what about storing the password |
| 18:18.15 | fungus | unum, no the cert *is* the authentication. Not just the encryption |
| 18:20.16 | *** join/#utah pelaofeliz1 (~PelaoFeli@67.137.236.66) |
| 18:20.19 | unum | oic |
| 18:20.22 | unum | reads up on it |
| 18:20.45 | jsmith | unum: The cert *is* the authentication... the connection to PostgreSQL happens over SSL, which takes care of the encryption |
| 18:25.31 | eggyknap | A bit more specifically, the cert provides an asymmetric key, which the server and client use to negotiate a symmetric key, which it uses for encryption. |
| 18:28.30 | *** join/#utah shalkie (~weechat@166-70-208-58.ip.xmission.com) |
| 18:38.36 | *** join/#utah jalbretsen (~jalbretse@c-76-27-51-43.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:40.40 | unum | so just like you can do with ssh |
| 18:41.14 | jsmith | Exactly the same, only different :-) |
| 18:42.58 | unum | but with this my users will still be able to use the key to connect to the server with a different program? |
| 18:44.21 | *** join/#utah shalkie (~weechat@166-70-208-58.ip.xmission.com) |
| 18:46.25 | jsmith | unum: I'm not sure I follow your question... |
| 18:46.49 | unum | I only want my users to be able to connect to the database using a program I'm writing |
| 18:47.14 | unum | I don't want them to be able to install a pgadmin and connect to the database using the password they found in the registry or the ssl cert |
| 18:47.40 | jsmith | There's no password in the cert -- the cert *is* the key |
| 18:48.08 | jsmith | I guess in theory, they could write a program that uses the same cert to authenticate to the database |
| 18:48.20 | jsmith | But I don't think any off-the-shelf programs like pgadmin support connecting w/ a cert |
| 18:48.22 | unum | or use a generic one like pgadmin |
| 18:48.29 | unum | I thought it did.... |
| 18:48.48 | jsmith | Oh, does it? |
| 18:49.00 | jsmith | hasn't used pgadmin in over five years |
| 18:49.15 | fugue88 | unum: Why don't you want your uses to connect directly, when an app they run connects on their behalf? |
| 18:49.31 | fugue88 | *your users |
| 18:49.48 | jsmith | fugue88: Because he doesn't trust his smart users to do the right thing ;-) |
| 18:50.00 | unum | it's a time card app...... |
| 18:50.00 | fugue88 | heh |
| 18:50.17 | unum | I don't want them to be able to insert clock in times them selves |
| 18:50.33 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (~Adium@eng-5-89.hotspot.utah.edu) |
| 18:50.37 | unum | like say now()-'45 minutes' |
| 18:50.40 | goozbach | what kind of app is it? |
| 18:50.43 | goozbach | web based? |
| 18:50.46 | unum | no |
| 18:50.50 | goozbach | ohh |
| 18:50.52 | unum | c++ desktop windows app |
| 18:51.05 | unum | but there are web based apps that connect to the same db |
| 18:51.12 | unum | and cli apps as well |
| 18:53.33 | fugue88 | unum: May I suggest you do design your schema to include an insert-only table to record punch-ins and punch-outs, with a timestamp column, a default value of now(), and a check constraint that the value does equal now(). |
| 18:53.55 | fugue88 | insert-only can be enforced by the appropriate grants. |
| 18:54.16 | fugue88 | Use different users/roles (with different grants) for desktop app versus web app, etc, if you need. |
| 18:56.15 | unum | if in and out are different rows then it makes SUM(clock_out-clock_in) a lot harder to do |
| 18:58.47 | eggyknap | unum: w.r.t. users changing things w/ other programs, you do that my setting up security within the database, not limiting what client program the users can use. |
| 18:59.32 | eggyknap | So, for instance, you create a user with rights to run "SELECT clock_in()" and "SELECT clock_out()" and nothing else. |
| 18:59.37 | fugue88 | unum: Okay then, scrap the insert-only idea. Put in and out in the same row, add an update trigger. The trigger will be able to see the "old" values, or see if the row is new (an insert), and apply the appropriate logic. |
| 18:59.51 | unum | I see |
| 19:00.07 | fugue88 | eggyknap: I believe that in pg a user must also have the appropriate permission on any table that a function accesses on his behalf. |
| 19:00.24 | eggyknap | I doubt you'll get a check constraint to ensure timestamp == NOW(). |
| 19:00.44 | goozbach | within seconds of now() maybe |
| 19:00.45 | eggyknap | fugue88: You can set the function to SECURITY DEFINER, which means it runs as whatever user defined it, instead of the user that invoked it. |
| 19:01.03 | fugue88 | eggyknap: Security definer... nice to know. |
| 19:01.28 | fugue88 | btw, now() returns the time of the start of the transaction, even if the wall time has passed that quite a ways. |
| 19:01.54 | eggyknap | Best not to try to validate that hte user entered the right time, and just make a function that always enters the right time. |
| 19:02.31 | fugue88 | And the check constraint does work, just tested it. |
| 19:03.07 | eggyknap | Oh, right... I guess since NOW() is transaction start, it could work. |
| 19:03.11 | fugue88 | Either way, eggyknap and I agree, that the right way is to use the db. |
| 19:03.21 | eggyknap | :) |
| 19:03.55 | fugue88 | Using the db to enforce this may require a schema change, but then I'd say that the schema change would be The Right Thing anyway. |
| 19:04.50 | *** join/#utah CamargoBP (~CamargoBP@orem.jiveip.net) |
| 19:04.55 | unum | thanks for your help |
| 19:05.04 | fugue88 | gl |
| 19:05.10 | unum | wonders how he ended up as a dba |
| 19:05.27 | unum | I thought I was a applying for a job as an assistant sysadmin |
| 19:05.34 | fugue88 | heh |
| 19:05.50 | unum | some how I ended up designing and implementing a the company database |
| 19:06.01 | unum | and writing all the software that uses it |
| 19:07.08 | unum | I really need to rethink about how I handle users with this database |
| 19:07.55 | eggyknap | unum: just let yourself join the dark side. DBA is fun :) |
| 19:08.34 | unum | if I can get me a couple of code monkeys maybe I can spend more time learning dba stuff |
| 19:08.58 | unum | when I first started this project I tried to convince them to pay for me to take a class |
| 19:10.47 | *** join/#utah dharmatech (~hayduke@utriders.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:13.19 | jsmith | unum: Most database classes are worthless... I took one in college, and ended up essentially teaching the class. |
| 19:13.43 | jsmith | unum: It's a topic that's best learned little by little by experience, not in a classroom environment |
| 19:13.57 | eggyknap | had the same experience with a programming class. The experience of teaching was quite valuable, as it turned out. :) |
| 19:13.59 | Migs | my db class gave me a good push, but that's it |
| 19:14.07 | unum | jsmith: I know where you went to college, I'm not suprised :) |
| 19:14.14 | fugue88 | Here's a pretty good blog: http://database-programmer.blogspot.com/ |
| 19:14.42 | unum | I'd be in so much trouble if not for #utah |
| 19:15.07 | fugue88 | unum: Don't worry, we'll all get together and vote to garnish your wages. :) |
| 19:15.31 | Gate | jsmith: I took a DB class in college and was declared an SQL 'expert' in two weeks. |
| 19:15.41 | unum | my assistant sysadmin job turned out to be a senior software engineer/dba/help desk/sysadmin/network admin job |
| 19:16.00 | fugue88 | Gate: You're proficient! |
| 19:16.03 | unum | but I understand that happens a lot |
| 19:17.34 | unum | hmmmm |
| 19:17.36 | jsmith | unum: As long as your pay is commensurate with your duties... |
| 19:17.48 | unum | i guess this conversations answer the other question I was going to ask of plug |
| 19:18.30 | eggyknap | On the subject of "experts" in SQL: http://petereisentraut.blogspot.com/2011/01/perception-vs-reality.html |
| 19:19.16 | unum | jsmith: I make sure to let them know what it would cost to replace me every once in a while |
| 19:19.18 | levi | Unfortunately, pay is rarely commensurate with your current duties, but rather with the duties of your previous job, or maybe the duties you signed up for at the beginning of your current job. |
| 19:19.34 | unum | I worry how much the "jack of all trades" situation may hurt me in finding a different job though |
| 19:19.53 | Gate | True. My experience in SQL was rather light at the time, I simply found a solution for what the professor described as a "very hard" problem |
| 19:20.08 | jsmith | levi: Too true... unless you make it clear when they hire you that you're not static, and that you expect them to try to keep up :-) |
| 19:20.11 | Gate | in fact, he spent an hour arguing that my solution couldn't possibly work, even though it did |
| 19:20.31 | jsmith | Too few employers hire people for their potential, and not for their current skillset |
| 19:21.01 | unum | jsmith: agreed |
| 19:21.08 | unum | I'm a big fan of the kraveth method |
| 19:21.14 | Gate | unum: I had the same worry in my old job, where I was a well-trained software engineer doing DBA, implementation and such |
| 19:21.37 | levi | Well, a lot of it is that it's a lot easier to hire an impressive-sounding person at a high salary than to raise the salary of current employees, for some reason. |
| 19:21.39 | Gate | but I used those as "look at how useful i can be" points and kept on the main points |
| 19:21.42 | fugue88 | unum: What's the kraveth method? |
| 19:22.10 | unum | fugue88: you expect employees to move up or move out |
| 19:22.28 | unum | that's the gist of it, thedailywtf had a good write up a while back |
| 19:22.31 | fugue88 | unum: Oh yes, I like that one too. |
| 19:22.50 | fugue88 | unum: Bell Labs (or whatever it was called back then) was very good at it,. |
| 19:24.07 | jsmith | Bell Labs was good at a lot of things... |
| 19:24.32 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@76.8.223.101) |
| 19:27.34 | fugue88 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cravath_System |
| 19:27.35 | unum | I think some companies confuse loyalty with laziness |
| 19:27.42 | unum | thanks, I had the spelling wrong |
| 19:35.48 | *** join/#utah dharmatech (~hayduke@utriders.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:35.50 | unum | "The belief was that someone who had worked anywhere else had learned bad habits already." |
| 19:35.53 | unum | interesting |
| 19:39.22 | eightyeight | ~lart portrait-oriented pdfs |
| 19:39.22 | ibot | beats portrait-oriented pdfs to within 2.54cm of his life |
| 19:42.13 | fugue88 | Well, that was unexpected. |
| 19:42.30 | fugue88 | eightyeight: What's wrong with portrait? |
| 19:43.04 | *** join/#utah wps (~wps@76.8.223.101) |
| 19:43.18 | mheath | wait, isn't portrait pretty much the universal standard? O.o |
| 19:47.14 | eightyeight | yes, and it's annoying as hell |
| 19:48.01 | eightyeight | i have a monitor that's 16:9. why should i waste all that precious screen real estate on the sides, and scroll vertically, when i could view a full page if it was in landscape? |
| 19:49.02 | eightyeight | i understand the need to print to paper |
| 19:49.06 | eightyeight | whatever |
| 19:49.14 | mheath | eightyeight, My pet peeve is people who lack proper text formatting in PDFs. |
| 19:49.19 | eightyeight | i still hate viewing portrait-oriented pdfs |
| 19:49.40 | mheath | My ebook reader will display PDFs, but because so many people butcher the text formatting it fails miserably at trying to format some documents. |
| 19:49.44 | larrys | I hate it when I get a word document that has a screen shot in it. |
| 19:50.11 | mheath | larrys, better than getting an Excel document that has a screenshot in it (and nothing else). |
| 19:50.26 | eightyeight | this only came up, because i installed pdfcreator, and was relieved to see i could print in landscape |
| 19:50.29 | mheath | A lot of our Operations staff at work regularly send us screenshots of errors, etc. that way, for some bizarre reason. |
| 19:50.33 | eightyeight | made my day |
| 19:50.35 | larrys | I got an email with "see the attached document" and it has a bulleted list... |
| 19:50.39 | fugue88 | eightyeight: Why on earth do you have your monitor landscape? |
| 19:50.41 | fugue88 | :P |
| 19:50.55 | eightyeight | fugue88: it's greener than i am. ã |
| 19:51.08 | fugue88 | hah! |
| 19:51.19 | eightyeight | (note the reference to "green thumb" and "environmentally friendly". meh. i tried) |
| 19:51.27 | mheath | heh |
| 19:51.30 | larrys | oh, and don't get me started on wasted disk space I've seen with bmps instead of png/jpg or even gif |
| 19:51.51 | levi | eightyeight: Why'd you buy a 16:9 monitor, knowing most documents are portrait-oriented? |
| 19:52.04 | eightyeight | levi: this isn't my monitor |
| 19:52.05 | fugue88 | levi: hahaha! |
| 19:52.27 | fugue88 | eightyeight: Now you're just passing the blame. |
| 19:52.34 | larrys | my stand has the ability to rotate, and have seen some people at work do that on their second monitor for documents like that |
| 19:53.13 | levi | 16:9 is nice for movies, but lousy for computer use. |
| 19:53.25 | fugue88 | 9:16 is much better. |
| 19:53.50 | sjansen | Figures. |
| 19:53.59 | eightyeight | fugue88: fair enough. doesn't change the fact that it still sucks |
| 19:54.39 | eightyeight | fugue88: many of my coworkers, developers and tech writers both, have rotated the monitors 90-degrees for that very reason |
| 19:54.55 | eightyeight | kind of funny to walk around the cubes, and see monitors on desks sideways |
| 19:55.00 | levi | A little bit wider than 16:9, as long as you have enough vertical resolution, and you can get two side-by-side portrait documents. |
| 19:57.24 | sjansen | I finally broke down and bought TAoCP boxes set a few month ago. So Knuth comes out with a new book. |
| 19:57.50 | fugue88 | sjansen: Thanks, we've been waiting for that new book forever! |
| 19:58.21 | goozbach | sjansen: link? |
| 19:58.40 | sjansen | http://www.informit.com/promotions/promotion.aspx?promo=138111 |
| 20:01.19 | mheath | Does anyone have experience with video control hardware? I'm looking into hardware options for controlling 12 HDTVs with a computer (or computers). |
| 20:01.41 | mheath | Nothing intensive video wise |
| 20:03.12 | *** topic/#utah by sjansen -> logs @ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23utah/ | minecraft multiplayer: plug.org | New Knuth. Volume 4A. |
| 20:03.48 | mheath | I was hoping someone here might have had some experience with Linux based video server options, as I imagine things are more flexible with an X Server than they are with Windows. |
| 20:19.56 | levi | What do you mean by "controlling 12 HDTVs"? |
| 20:20.09 | levi | You mean turning them on and off, or displaying video on them, or what? |
| 20:23.25 | fadein | Yay! New Knuth!! |
| 20:23.52 | fadein | no matter what else happens for the rest of the year, 2011 will be awesome |
| 20:25.52 | mheath | levi, Sorry. Displaying video on them. |
| 20:26.36 | mheath | My work is installing them, and they're soliciting ideas for control. Previously, when we had a similar arrangement (but smaller number of TVs - 5 total), we just used 5 individual, small computers to control them |
| 20:27.11 | mheath | They're not against the idea of individual computers for control, but that gets cumbersome with 12 different TV |
| 20:30.15 | levi | 12 HDTVs is a lot of pixel data to update. |
| 20:30.33 | goozbach | given a beefy enough server... |
| 20:30.38 | goozbach | and just a framebuffer? |
| 20:30.45 | goozbach | what kind of data are you displaying? |
| 20:31.14 | sjansen | 12 HDTVs showing 12 different things? |
| 20:31.23 | mheath | Yes |
| 20:31.29 | mheath | But its all light things |
| 20:31.38 | mheath | Mostly simple web pages |
| 20:31.49 | mheath | and some (reasonable) lag in update isn't a big deal |
| 20:32.18 | mheath | basically, they're displays for a NOC that display things like monitoring tool data, network load graphs, data center security cameras, etc. |
| 20:33.25 | goozbach | there was a company something with an X in their name which made a 12 or 24 port video card which was linux compatable |
| 20:33.31 | goozbach | don't recall the name |
| 20:34.08 | mheath | hmm ok |
| 20:34.21 | levi | There are also some USB video adapters that might be useful if the displays are fairly static. |
| 20:35.36 | goozbach | http://www.9xmedia.com/ |
| 20:35.52 | goozbach | AWESOME I remembered it!!! |
| 20:35.53 | goozbach | I haven't dusted that braincell in over a decade |
| 20:37.45 | mheath | goozbach, thanks! |
| 20:55.29 | eightyeight | heh |
| 20:55.31 | eightyeight | goozbach: did it hurt? |
| 20:57.25 | *** join/#utah phaedryx (~phaedryx@173-8-92-49-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 20:57.39 | *** join/#utah bios (~bios@shup.com) |
| 20:59.05 | *** part/#utah phaedryx (~phaedryx@173-8-92-49-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 21:06.56 | goozbach | eightyeight: nope |
| 21:07.00 | goozbach | just took some effort |
| 21:08.17 | eightyeight | ã |
| 21:15.31 | *** join/#utah macnewbold (~Adium@205.204.33.82) |
| 21:16.43 | sjansen | grumbles about purists and their anti-blob jihads |
| 21:16.53 | sjansen | https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=458011 |
| 21:24.19 | jsmith | sjansen: I'd have gone the "FreeDOS" route, myself |
| 21:28.49 | jsmith | sjansen: You have to admit, coding someone else's proprietary code in C arrays is pretty dodgy |
| 21:30.15 | sjansen | grumbles something about Windows, painful posteriors, and not having to admit anything |
| 21:31.01 | eightyeight | ... that's almost 2 years old |
| 21:31.07 | eightyeight | what brought this up? |
| 21:32.02 | sjansen | Looking for alternatives to Clonezilla. |
| 21:35.03 | jsmith | sjansen: It wouldn't be that hard to take that, replace the code with FreeDOS code, and be done w/ it... I *know* you're capable of that :-) |
| 22:24.39 | Gate | -_^ I just got an update on a 6 year old ubuntu bug |
| 22:28.21 | goozbach | was it "end of life -- WONTFIX"? |
| 22:47.30 | levi | Ugh, mealy apples. |
| 23:03.02 | elg | sjansen: please explain |
| 23:03.03 | elg | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:03.04 | elg | \\\\ |
| 23:03.05 | elg | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:03.06 | elg | \\ |
| 23:03.09 | elg | I hold you personally responsible. |
| 23:06.21 | fugue88 | Ooh, ouch. |
| 23:28.27 | levi | elg: Why would you be doing anything like that in the first place? |
| 23:28.45 | elg | von was complaining about backslashes in sed in $() or `` |
| 23:28.53 | elg | that's just a degenerate case. |
| 23:29.31 | levi | Well, he's got good reason to complain about backslashes in unix-land. |
| 23:36.53 | eightyeight | but, but, that's how you quote things in bsd-land |
| 23:37.15 | eightyeight | elg said ``I hold you personally responsible.'' |
| 23:37.30 | eightyeight | check the bash(1) manual |
| 23:37.43 | elg | sjansen is my bash scapegoat. |
| 23:38.44 | eightyeight | don't forget links too. <http://www.9xmedia.com/> |
| 23:39.07 | eightyeight | has other things to pick fun of the bsd crowd with |
| 23:40.42 | levi | Like csh? |
| 23:40.58 | *** part/#utah elg (~fugalh@taran.fugal.net) |
| 23:40.59 | eightyeight | :D |
| 23:41.06 | *** join/#utah elg (~fugalh@taran.fugal.net) |
| 23:41.06 | *** mode/#utah [+v elg] by ChanServ |
| 23:41.27 | levi | Where would we be without BSD sockets, though? |
| 23:42.49 | eightyeight | streams, most likely |
| 23:56.54 | eightyeight | foo=bar; echo $(echo \$foo); echo `echo \$foo` |
| 23:56.59 | eightyeight | $foo |
| 23:57.00 | eightyeight | bar |
| 23:57.57 | eightyeight | \ behaves differently in `` vs $() |
| 23:58.26 | eightyeight | it has to be treated differently, or you couldn't nest `` |